Quote from genini2 »Quote from cfusionpm »Their stance on creatures vs spells is no better exemplified than in comparing Cavern of Souls to Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
One enters tapped, does not produce colored mana, does not cast spells outside of its limitations, costs 2 life to use each time, and is Legendary.
The other enters untapped, can be used as any other colorless source, and is a pain-free rainbow land with upside.
A creature that is uncounterable can still be killed though. An instant or sorcery that is uncounterable is, while not impossible to interact with, very difficult. Imagine legacy where Show and Tell has an untapped land that can make it uncounterable. Or even modern where Ad Nauseam get an uncounterable Angel's Grace (from split second) and an uncounterable Ad Nauseam (from the land) and then gets to flip its deck into 4 pact of negation. With a cipt land you at least have a turn to Ghost Quarter/Field of Ruin and it being legendary means you can't run 4 and count on it all the time.
I'm not using the example to show that spells should have an uncounterable, pain-free, untapped rainbow land. Just that having an uncounterable, pain-free, untapped rainbow land is kind of ridiculous. Especially in Modern when there are multiple other versions of pain-free, untapped rainbow lands for creatures, and decks like Humans can play effectively 12 copies.
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Looking at the three larger tournaments this weekend,the MTGO modern PTQ with 391 people (top 32), the modern challenge (top 32) and the SCG Cincinnati modern Classic with 303 people (top 16), I find zero jund/abzan/Golgari, but 6 Grixis Shadow decks. Only Humans and Hollow One have a higher representation:
8 Humans
8 Hollow One
6 Grixis Shadow
5 Tron
5 Affinity
5 GW Hexproof
5 UW Control
3 Vizier Company
3 UR Breach/UR Moon
3 Burn
3 Dredge
3 Scapeshift
2 Ponza
2 Eldrazi and Taxes
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33 Yeem, Soohwang - Burn
34 Graves, Robert - Kiki Chord
35 Yam, Wing Chun - Burn
36 Kiefer, Jack - Ponza
37 Severson, Eric - Hollow one
38 Liu, Richard
39 Weitz, Benjamin - Ironworks
40 Carpenter, Brad - Grixis Shadow
41 Kiefer, Quinn - Hollow one
42 Shaath, Zuhair - Zoo
43 Loveman, Eli
44 Gordon, Ray
45 Stern, Jon - Mono green Tron
46 Swanson, Gray
47 Tomajko, Oliver
48 Baeckstrom, Andrew - Ironworks
49 Kovac, Chase
50 Turensky, Benjamin
51 Goeltz, Austin
52 Colker, Nathan
53 Marino, Lee
54 Garcia Rosas, Jose Daniel - BW Pox
55 Adams, Jesse
56 Meyer, Ben - Burn
57 Pardee, Samuel - Ironworks
58 Eakins, Loren
59 Babis, Robert - Goblins
60 Li, Chris
61 Moran, Spencer
62 Kirshon, Daniel
63 Carey, Bryan - Jund
64 Sullano, Andrew - Elves
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3 Blade Splicer
2 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
1 Vendilion Clique
Instant/Sorceries(18)
3 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Rest in Peace
2 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Supreme Verdict
His list looks similar to a list that 5-0'd the MTGO Competitive league recently:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/975331#paper
The idea of Splicer/Resto in modern jeskai is not new. Look up Shohei Mita's version that top8'ed GP Kobe some years back, also with 2 maindeck planeswalkers (Elspeth, Knight-Errant was the best option at that time)
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8053&d=246406&f=MO
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How good LotV will be depends a lot on the meta you're playing in. LotV is bad against swarm decks (Affinity ++), dredge, and bad against lingering souls, recurring creatures like Kitchen Finks/Voice of Resurgence, Blood Ghast, Flamewake Phoenix etc. LotV is generally good against most control and combo decks, and good against decks with few but powerful and non-recurring creatures. Most jund-players prefer 4 maindeck LotV, but some jund-players have had great success with 3 LotV. Examples - Keita Kawasaki, who top 8'ed Grand Prix Guangzhou 2016 with 3 LotV, Vidianto Wijaya in Grand Prix Los Angeles 2016, and Andrew Huska who 2nd placed Grand Prix Minneapolis 2014. The 3-drop spot in Jund have been getting more competition over the years, with Kol. Command printed in 2015 and LotLH in 2016 to compete with LotV. I can also mention Ben Friedman's controversial new BBE-list with no LotV and 2 goyf:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36629_The-End-Of-Moderns-Golden-Age.html I don't think his list looks good, but it demonstrates that there are different opinions of these things.
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+ 1 Boggles
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You know we used to have a moderator that, as well as updating the tiers regularly, cared a lot about the order and structure in this forum and he would have gasped to statements like the one you just made. I think most people knew he did an important job here, but I would never have guessed things would go completely off rails like it has after he left...
These threads on mtgsalvation are more than just chat forums. They go many years back and are valuable and important documentation of the history and tradition of the archetypes of modern magic. And now the jeskai threads are falling into complete chaos because people don't seem to care about categorization anymore. People who want to discuss hard control with 4 snaps or 3 snaps/1 gearhulk are drowning in midrange talk...
It shouldn't be so hard to understand: This thread is about jeskai/UWR midrange with a reasonable amount of creatures, while the Jeskai/UWR Control forum is about hard control with snapcaster as the main creature. The decks with ~11 creatures that are doing well these days clearly belongs in the midrange thread.
And to people who come to the midrange thread and tell people to head to the incorrect thread instead: Please stop doing that, you're not helping.
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I've been testing Chart a Course with this this list in some matches now, and I'm not sure about it... It works very well against decks with little removal, like company decks, death and taxes etc., but it's not that good against removal-heavy decks like Jeskai midrange, jund/abzan etc., and those are probably the matchups where the card advantage is needed the most. I think I'll go back to gaining card advantage with Electrolyze and Cryptic Command, which have the added benefit of dealing with swarms, bouncing problematic permanents and generally being better tempo plays by affecting the board.
Maybe my creatures are just too fragile for chart and that it's better with Pyromancer tokens and hexproof geist. Might be worth trying.
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I think it should require at least 8 one-drop creatures, as only 4 delvers doesn't make it consistent. It has anti-synergy with Swiftspear, so maybe in a Steppe Lynx-build? The extra card draw from chart should fuel him good. Gonna try something like this, I think:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strands
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Moorland Haunt
22 lands
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Spell Queller
15 creatures
4 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
2 Remand
4 Serum Visions
4 Chart a Course
23 other spells
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
1 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Dusk // Dawn
1 Wear // Tear
2 Molten Rain
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Decklist here:
4x Delver of secrets
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Young Pyromancer
2x Geist of Saint Traft
Sorcery/Instant 30
4x Serum Visions
4x Spell Pierce
4x Lightning Helix
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
4x Path to exile
3x Mana Leak
3x Boros Charm
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Steam Vents
4x Blessed Alliance
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Aven Mindcensor
2x Counterflux
3x Leyline of Sanctity
When I saw the Pyromancers, I thought he'd play Opt, but he didn't. Anyone been trying out some lists with Opt?