Anyone else get the impression this will be a cycle
1uuu counter target spell, cast during your turn scry 2
1ggg put 5 (3) +1 +1 counters on target creature, cast during your turn scry
etc etc?
yeah, probably a cycle. like return to dust in time spiral.
also, if it's a cycle we will probably see a black removal that could be considered the damnation / day of judgment variant; e.g., 1BBB distribute a number of -1/-1 counters among creatures your opponents control.
what does everyone think about coiling oracle? it's either ramp or a domri+1 for GU, which fits the theme of the deck. is GU too hard on T2 (assuming no dork)? i almost would rather play oracle over pridemage every time, and swapping G2 as needed. going to try it.
it seems we took similar but different routes: you focused on tokens and anthems with an enchantment subtheme; i focused on lifegain and survivability with an enchantment subtheme.
anyways, i only have a few comments because i am of no means an EDH expert:
is Gideon Jura useful? his second ability might net you a creature, but i imagine the power level of EDH creatures will attract a quick demise.
i think any enchantment theme needs Replenish. i just discovered this card and it is a complete house. laugh your way through a planar cleansing.
if we're running mono-white we should run Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. your build is focused more on artificats and tokens, though, so maybe not.
Gift of Immortality is hilarious in EDH. i've used it in multiple decks (putting it on Grave Titan was amazing). it works in your deck, too, though it was a low creature count. something to consider.
i think for mono-white tokens especially you should consider Evangel of Heliod.
i also think you should add tutor effects (Enlightened Tutor and Idyllic Tutor). fetching enchantments is great (and don't forget that Heliod, God of the Sun is an enchantment, so it can be fetched if tucked).
You could try the list that Paul Cheon and LSV 4-0'd with for starters. I made some changes to it like cutting Cryptics completely in favor of cheaper countermagic. In my testing, having something like Izzet Charm is better in the mirror and most matchups. The only time I wanted Cryptics is when I faced Tron decks.
Having 3 cliques makes 2 copies of Restoration Angel worth it. It's alright to have Resto in the main if you meta has a lot of combo decks. I usually side her out when I play against midrange decks for bombs like Baneslayer / Batterskull / Thundermaw. Having these big guys made it easier for me when facing opposing Baloths and Thruns.
i'm not a fan of izzet. if it could 2 to the dome i'd be sold.
on the fence about resto. new legendary rules make clique so good. i wish i had a third, so i'll just stick to my two. without a third i don't know if i can justify a rest. maybe one.
I took out 1 arid mesa from my MB to put the second tectonic edge into, without changin the number of playable lands and without taking out colored mana sources... let's see what happens!
YP is a great card but I think it would shine best in storm-esk type deck with gitaxian probe and serum visions. I attempted to run a play set and sorely missed the lynx. I found I rarely had two mana open to cast something that does nothing until I cast something else.
yeah, i don't like cards that depend another card to be good. landfall triggers are an exception because it's land, and fetchlands are amazing. and snapcaster effects don't count, because they utilize other cards rather than depend. e.g., flashing in a snappy to kick down tron early is pretty good.
YP is worse than a bear and really only gets good if you start some cheap spell hijinx.
Thoughts on young pyromancer? It slows down the clock (assuming you replace steppe lynx) but provides a little more consistency and resilience
i think any deck with snapcaster mage, bolts, paths, helixes, and remands screams out for young pyromancer. i want him to work in GOST but i think it makes more sense in a tempo build. i don't know much about this tempo variant, but it seems to me i'd cut Delver over Steppe Lynx. YP goes a more creature route.
the question is how to make those elemental tokens better.
can make room from spell suite easy enough. i'd probably cut 1 path, my isochron, maybe a helix, maybe a snap. it'd have to be thought out quite a bit.
i guess it's not even close to as good as cursecatcher, which gets lord pumps.
i find melira pod to be a pretty easy matchup. graffdigger's cage and stony silence to shut down pod. wrath of god for thrun and creature sweep. our one for one removal and counters naturally take care of their creatures.
That's prrtty rough man. Did you mulligan any? If not what kinda hands did you keep. I honestly have been having a good time with the deck at my lgs. Places everytime. Maybe due to a lot of us are new to the format, and just experience wins the game.
What I have actually enjoyed is Tamiyo seeing that aggro s a lil more prevalent in meta. She is a one of, and she is usuallly boarded. Ill post a list later tonight because I am at work.
yeah, i went to 6 or 5 quite a bit. the cards just weren't there. one thing that i constantly notice is how threat light we are. if we don't land geist on three it becomes a colonnade game, no matter how we spin it.
obviously elspeth activates your snapcasters, but that's a pretty narrow application. the consistency just isn't there. i wish there was a way to guarantee geist on three, or at least have a different type of threat build during those early turns.
maybe i just need to accept that the deck is control--not midrange.
what a brutal showing. i played terribly AND my deck **** on me. i either got flooded or screwed all day. nothing like drawing lands and PoE all day against affinity. anyways:
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Melira Pod--this matchup is almost laughably easy. T1 grafdigger's cage in game 2 was backbreaking for his Pod Pod Chord Chord opening hand.
Round 2: 0-2 vs. Affinity--he hit a nut draw in game 1 and i was mana screwed at 3 lands. not a chance. game 2 i drew land and paths almost exclusively. zero gas. etched champion is a serious problem.
Round 3: 0-2 vs. Affinity--almost an identical game 1. mana screw and etched champion. game 2 was much better, but i forgot to board out my isochron after siding in stony silence, which killed me late game. i wrath of god twice, plus a snap wrath, and resolved an ajani, but it still wasn't enough for etched champion. that card just wins. chalice of the void at 2 with all my bolts extracted is also a problem.
Round 4: 0-2 vs. Scapeshift--at this point i'm tired, hungry, and annoyed. the game was just bad; e.g., i knew he had a dispel open but still tried cryptic instead of counterflux.
i dropped after going a pathetic 1-3. pretty upset.
i think the difference is disruption vs. aggression. both will win you the game unchecked. elspeth forces the play, assuming you can protect your geist to keep swining out. i use ajani more as a latent threat, keeping a necessity tapped while crawling to land destruction. i think the difference is that ajani is spot removal that gains you life when you need it.
i'm playing in a tournament today at a competitive level. obviously nowhere near GP KC, but i will report back. list:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendillion Clique
yeah, probably a cycle. like return to dust in time spiral.
also, if it's a cycle we will probably see a black removal that could be considered the damnation / day of judgment variant; e.g., 1BBB distribute a number of -1/-1 counters among creatures your opponents control.
seems right. i have ethersworn, sigarda, and chalice sideboarded for just that. considering throwing in a meddling mage.
it seems we took similar but different routes: you focused on tokens and anthems with an enchantment subtheme; i focused on lifegain and survivability with an enchantment subtheme.
anyways, i only have a few comments because i am of no means an EDH expert:
is Gideon Jura useful? his second ability might net you a creature, but i imagine the power level of EDH creatures will attract a quick demise.
i think any enchantment theme needs Replenish. i just discovered this card and it is a complete house. laugh your way through a planar cleansing.
if we're running mono-white we should run Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. your build is focused more on artificats and tokens, though, so maybe not.
Gift of Immortality is hilarious in EDH. i've used it in multiple decks (putting it on Grave Titan was amazing). it works in your deck, too, though it was a low creature count. something to consider.
i think for mono-white tokens especially you should consider Evangel of Heliod.
i also think you should add tutor effects (Enlightened Tutor and Idyllic Tutor). fetching enchantments is great (and don't forget that Heliod, God of the Sun is an enchantment, so it can be fetched if tucked).
i'm not a fan of izzet. if it could 2 to the dome i'd be sold.
on the fence about resto. new legendary rules make clique so good. i wish i had a third, so i'll just stick to my two. without a third i don't know if i can justify a rest. maybe one.
i would pull the sulfur falls over the mesa. fetches are too important, especially with only 1 gate and so many doubles.
yeah, i don't like cards that depend another card to be good. landfall triggers are an exception because it's land, and fetchlands are amazing. and snapcaster effects don't count, because they utilize other cards rather than depend. e.g., flashing in a snappy to kick down tron early is pretty good.
YP is worse than a bear and really only gets good if you start some cheap spell hijinx.
i think any deck with snapcaster mage, bolts, paths, helixes, and remands screams out for young pyromancer. i want him to work in GOST but i think it makes more sense in a tempo build. i don't know much about this tempo variant, but it seems to me i'd cut Delver over Steppe Lynx. YP goes a more creature route.
the question is how to make those elemental tokens better.
can make room from spell suite easy enough. i'd probably cut 1 path, my isochron, maybe a helix, maybe a snap. it'd have to be thought out quite a bit.
i guess it's not even close to as good as cursecatcher, which gets lord pumps.
yeah, i went to 6 or 5 quite a bit. the cards just weren't there. one thing that i constantly notice is how threat light we are. if we don't land geist on three it becomes a colonnade game, no matter how we spin it.
obviously elspeth activates your snapcasters, but that's a pretty narrow application. the consistency just isn't there. i wish there was a way to guarantee geist on three, or at least have a different type of threat build during those early turns.
maybe i just need to accept that the deck is control--not midrange.
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Melira Pod--this matchup is almost laughably easy. T1 grafdigger's cage in game 2 was backbreaking for his Pod Pod Chord Chord opening hand.
Round 2: 0-2 vs. Affinity--he hit a nut draw in game 1 and i was mana screwed at 3 lands. not a chance. game 2 i drew land and paths almost exclusively. zero gas. etched champion is a serious problem.
Round 3: 0-2 vs. Affinity--almost an identical game 1. mana screw and etched champion. game 2 was much better, but i forgot to board out my isochron after siding in stony silence, which killed me late game. i wrath of god twice, plus a snap wrath, and resolved an ajani, but it still wasn't enough for etched champion. that card just wins. chalice of the void at 2 with all my bolts extracted is also a problem.
Round 4: 0-2 vs. Scapeshift--at this point i'm tired, hungry, and annoyed. the game was just bad; e.g., i knew he had a dispel open but still tried cryptic instead of counterflux.
i dropped after going a pathetic 1-3. pretty upset.
i'm playing in a tournament today at a competitive level. obviously nowhere near GP KC, but i will report back. list:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Isochron Scepter
25 Land
Side:
2 Wrath of God
2 Stony Silence
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Wear / Tear
1 Batterskull
1 Echoing Truth
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterflux
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Spreading Seas
1 Surgical Extraction
looking to swap in a second counterflux once acquired.