* if you know they run blood moon, switch to control mode and don't let them resolve it.
* if you know they run blood moon, fetch for basis.
* i play 1 Isochron Sceptre. it only takes 2 colourless to activate a recurring helix. i think it's amazing as a 1-of as is--it's even better against moon.
Thats part of what i was saying a few posts back. the difference between 26, 25 and 24 lands IS relevant to our gameplan. Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be a magic number, it heavily depends on the curve of your deck.
I rarely get flooded, but when i do i tend to lose, colonnades do not fix this.
Right now im torn in the 24 vs 25 land debate, i think i could safely go to 24, but perhaps cutting cryptics and lowering the curve would be the right way to go.
yeah, i think if you're going 24 lands you need to drop the curve and lose cryptic. that's a 3-clique, or even mindsensor/splicer list, imo. much more tempo.
Am I the only person who's noticing this.. The deck tends to flood a lot of lands. What do you guys think of cutting some lands and adding 1 mana cantrips. I know we don't have good cards like Ponder, but Serum Vision seems like something worth trying.
i cut back from 26 to 25, but still notice land floods sometimes. 8 fetches helps with thinning the deck, but sometimes you just don't draw fetches. i don't now if there's a way around it with the current needs of the mana base.
the idea behind 25, or even 26, lands is to always have 4 lands on turn 4 and 5 lands on turn 5 and even 6 lands on turn 6. we want cryptic command mana on 4--it's our blowout. and even for those not playing cryptic, dropping an ajani second mainphase is pretty good (or a scepter on helix/remand with 2 mana open), or snapcaster leak.
on turn 5 we want 5 mana open for batterskull, if we're playing, or the ability to cast two spells. our deck depends on having the mana available to play our huge spell suite.
on turn 6 we want 6 mana to be able to start bashing with colonnade. the faster the better.
so it's a constant balance between ensuring mana consistency into the mid/late game while not flooding out our hand so it becomes irrelevant. i don't think cantrips are the way to go unless they're aggressive (remand / electrolyze). if anything we should be looking at adding 1 or 2 more fetches, but i'm not sure where we can cut without hurting the amount of land we can fetch.
Thanks guys. From what I've gathered, the deck wins by:
1) Dropping Geist, Batterskull or other similar threats
2) Making use of removals, counters and card draw to keep ourselves ahead of our opponents
I suppose the key for me is to play with the deck, and to familiarize myself with the meta and each deck's key threats?
yep. decks always have to have a plan. that's how you win more often than not. good stuff decks have good stuff, but they don't have direction, so you don't know what cards to play and when to play them.
here, our focus is singular: prevent our opponent's from comboing out or attaining a board presence and protect geist.
^ True. Its not the same to bolt a 2/3 goyf than helix it or path it, even with the amount of removal this deck runs, you need to know when to save each card and take a few hits, all for the greater goal.
I would say this deck demands extreme tight play and resource managment, its efficiency at its finest.
Not to mention we do run countermagic, so when to tap out for a threat and when not to is of extreme importance.
also, it's good to remember that bolting or helixing a 2/3 goyf won't do anything (assuming no instants are in GY) since the spell resolves and goes in GY before damage is applied
i'd say this deck needs good piloting. the amount of cheap removal and counters would indicate that it runs itself--just slam geist and clear his path. but the decisions are aplenty and need to be made in consideration of the meta.
ajani clears the way for GoST with both his + and - ability. he also threatens insta win via quick ult if not dealt with, which forces them to play aggressive and right into our removal/control spell suite.
rhinne, your list is very close to mine as it's been since i started with UWR. i've only recently added to the creature based. i never tried 4 GoST 4 Snap with batterskull, but generally i found the threats lacking. if GoST didn't land on turn 3 the game devolved to counter/burn until late game colonnade smash. it got boring and i really didn't feel like i was pushing play, even if i was in relative control.
adding 2 cliques has been great. it's funny to think that taking cliques OUT was my big change from Unwin's list when it first popped up. but they seem to be essential. a 3/1 flying body is no joke, especially when it either cantrips or removes a latent threat. the new legendary rule is going to make clique that much better.
throwing batterskull into the mix is a perfect curve topper. if the game gets drawn out it provides the reach that i felt was lacking.
another amazing addition for me has been isochron sceptre. the UWR delver decks derived from early sceptre decks, and i'm not really sure why it fell out of favour. setting a sceptre to helix or remand is just so much fun and it's a great singleton option.
i've gone back and forth on cryptic command. i'm back "on"--it's such a blowout. but i'm only playing 1 mainboard. so right now i have a list that looks like this:
Azorius Charm was surprisingly good to me in UWR Wafo-Tapa Control. I typically made it top-tuck creatures, but it cantripped instead against combo and heavy control.
...Voice of Resurgence rips that card apart if you're using it to shove off attackers, though. I'm reluctant to play the upcoming Celestial Flare because of its similar timing restrictions, even though it's a 2-cmc white Edict. I don't support Azorius Charm in the current meta because of its timing restriction and Voice's popularity--I'd recommend more PtEs or Electrolyzes instead.
i'm running 4 PtE's and 2 Electro's. is VoR really that bad? i haven't had any problems with him at all. he's really just shown up vs Melira Pod and it's easy to snare or main phase bolt/helix/path. i'm sure he'll start popping up in GW Hatebears soon, if he hasn't already.
i'm wondering if mainboarding scepter is a bad meta call with VoR's popularity.
i have the opportunity to pick up either 2x Cryptic Command [b]or[/]b] 1x Vendillion Clique (would be my second), 1x Baneslayer Angel, 1x Batterskull. the decision turns on which archetype we think is better: snap geist burn colonnade or tempo.
hey guys. i wanted to build a tribal deck and randomly decided on elementals. i did some legendary searching and decided animar would let me ramp into big dudes. i haven't played this with my cockatrice playgroup yet, but goldfishing leads to some hilarious results.
i'd love questions, comments, and critiques! i don't really have experience building commander decks, nor knowledge about tutoring / strategy / etc. i just searched gather for RUG elementals that i liked and threw in some cards to make it happen faster.
* if you know they run blood moon, switch to control mode and don't let them resolve it.
* if you know they run blood moon, fetch for basis.
* i play 1 Isochron Sceptre. it only takes 2 colourless to activate a recurring helix. i think it's amazing as a 1-of as is--it's even better against moon.
yeah, i think if you're going 24 lands you need to drop the curve and lose cryptic. that's a 3-clique, or even mindsensor/splicer list, imo. much more tempo.
i cut back from 26 to 25, but still notice land floods sometimes. 8 fetches helps with thinning the deck, but sometimes you just don't draw fetches. i don't now if there's a way around it with the current needs of the mana base.
the idea behind 25, or even 26, lands is to always have 4 lands on turn 4 and 5 lands on turn 5 and even 6 lands on turn 6. we want cryptic command mana on 4--it's our blowout. and even for those not playing cryptic, dropping an ajani second mainphase is pretty good (or a scepter on helix/remand with 2 mana open), or snapcaster leak.
on turn 5 we want 5 mana open for batterskull, if we're playing, or the ability to cast two spells. our deck depends on having the mana available to play our huge spell suite.
on turn 6 we want 6 mana to be able to start bashing with colonnade. the faster the better.
so it's a constant balance between ensuring mana consistency into the mid/late game while not flooding out our hand so it becomes irrelevant. i don't think cantrips are the way to go unless they're aggressive (remand / electrolyze). if anything we should be looking at adding 1 or 2 more fetches, but i'm not sure where we can cut without hurting the amount of land we can fetch.
yep. decks always have to have a plan. that's how you win more often than not. good stuff decks have good stuff, but they don't have direction, so you don't know what cards to play and when to play them.
here, our focus is singular: prevent our opponent's from comboing out or attaining a board presence and protect geist.
also, it's good to remember that bolting or helixing a 2/3 goyf won't do anything (assuming no instants are in GY) since the spell resolves and goes in GY before damage is applied
adding 2 cliques has been great. it's funny to think that taking cliques OUT was my big change from Unwin's list when it first popped up. but they seem to be essential. a 3/1 flying body is no joke, especially when it either cantrips or removes a latent threat. the new legendary rule is going to make clique that much better.
throwing batterskull into the mix is a perfect curve topper. if the game gets drawn out it provides the reach that i felt was lacking.
another amazing addition for me has been isochron sceptre. the UWR delver decks derived from early sceptre decks, and i'm not really sure why it fell out of favour. setting a sceptre to helix or remand is just so much fun and it's a great singleton option.
i've gone back and forth on cryptic command. i'm back "on"--it's such a blowout. but i'm only playing 1 mainboard. so right now i have a list that looks like this:
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
4 Remand
4 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyze
1 Cryptic Command
1 Batterskull
1 Isochron Sceptre
25 Land
i'm running 4 PtE's and 2 Electro's. is VoR really that bad? i haven't had any problems with him at all. he's really just shown up vs Melira Pod and it's easy to snare or main phase bolt/helix/path. i'm sure he'll start popping up in GW Hatebears soon, if he hasn't already.
i'm wondering if mainboarding scepter is a bad meta call with VoR's popularity.
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Remand
2 Electrolyze
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Batterskull
25 Land
i have the opportunity to pick up either 2x Cryptic Command [b]or[/]b] 1x Vendillion Clique (would be my second), 1x Baneslayer Angel, 1x Batterskull. the decision turns on which archetype we think is better: snap geist burn colonnade or tempo.
suggestions?
i'd love questions, comments, and critiques! i don't really have experience building commander decks, nor knowledge about tutoring / strategy / etc. i just searched gather for RUG elementals that i liked and threw in some cards to make it happen faster.
here it is:
1 Animar, Soul of Elements
Creatures
1 Adaptive Automaton
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Bloom Tender
1 Brighthearth Banneret
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Caterwauling Boggart
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Fertilid
1 Fierce Empath
1 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Incandescent Soulstoke
1 Liege of the Tangle
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
1 Magmatic Force
1 Malignus
1 Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1 Mulldrifter
1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Nova Chaser
1 Petrified Wood-Kin
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Prime Speazer Zegana
1 Progenitur Mimic
1 Rakka Mar
1 Scourge of Geier Reach
1 Smokebraider
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Sunflare Shaman
1 Supreme Exemplar
1 Treasure Mage
1 Tyrant of Discord
1 Vengevine
1 Verdant Force
1 Vigor
1 Walker of the Grove
1 Wilderness Elemental
1 Wolfbriar Elemental
1 Elemental Mastery
1 Eyes of the Wisent
1 Rhystic Study
1 Zektar Shrine Expedition
Artifact
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sol Ring
Planeswalker
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
Insant
1 Beast Within
1 Chord of Calling
1 Comet Storm
1 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorcery
1 Call of the Skybreaker
1 Decimate
1 Farseek
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Hull Breach
1 Rite of Replication
1 Unexpected Results
Land
1 Bant Panorama
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Exotic Orchard
1 FIre-Lit Thicket
1 Flooded Grove
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest x2
1 Grixis Panorma
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island x2
1 Jund Panorama
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mossfire Valley
1 Mountain
1 Mountain Valley
1 Naya Panorama
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Shivan Reef
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Taiga
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Coast
Hilarious
Liege of the Tangle -> Maelstrom Wanderer -> (1) Avenger of Zendikar / (2) Prime Speaker Zegana