I traded one Voice for a Skite last night near the end of testing (random practice games on MTGO) so I haven't seen it to full effect, do people like it maindeck? Or should I stick with the 3rd Voice? Also, how are people finding the UB Fae matchup? I played a few games against them last night (granted, it was like 3am EST) and they always seemed to have the Spellstutter Sprite or 2nd Scion of Oona to cancel out my Path or counter my pod. I might have just been carelessly running into countermagic though, it was pretty late.
i hope you didn't trade Voice for Skite straight up, as Voice is worth twice as much (don't know MTGO pricing though). as for Skite, he is tremendous in Kiki. absolutely mandatory i think. with regards Fae, i've found the matchup pretty heavily favoured for us. it could be that Fae gets better as people learn to pilot it. i think you have to approach Fae as you approach UWR, which is to be conscious of counter magic and be patient.
I hate this matchup. I think it's very bad for Pod. Game 1 he had Tron on turn 3, but no Karn. Still, I had no Pod--only an active Domri--and lost to a Pyroclasm with Relic, followed by an Emrakul next turn. No chance. Game 2 I combo'd off on turn 4 before he had a chance to do anything. Game 3 he landed a Karn on turn 3 on the play. I followed with a turn 3 pod. I think he lost the match on turn 4 by ticking Karn up to exile from my hand rather than exile pod. Turn 4 I played a Finks and Podded into a Riders, blowing up Power Plant (saw him fetch a 2nd Tower on his turn). Turn 5 he played a second Power Plant (later he said he had one of each in his hand, so it didn't matter). He ticked Karn up again, rather than hitting Pod and Riders or Finks or the Dork. My hand contained Redcap and Kiki. I thought I punted by giving him redcap, but realized I had a 4-drop on the table anyway. He tapped out to mainphase his stuff. On my turn I Podded Riders into Conscripts, untapped Pod, Podded the Finks into Resto, bounced Conscripts, untapped Pod, then Podded Resto into Kiki -- game over. In short, I probably should have lost the matchup but for my opponents play mistakes.
Sideboard In: l Aven Mindcensor, 1 Thalia, 1 Avalanche Riders. I had no idea how to board against this matchup. Question: does Spirit of the Labyrinth just hose Tron out of the sideboard? All that artifact sac and draw.
How did you have enough mana to pay the echo cost on the Riders and activate pod 3 times? That's 7 mana
DEFINITELY MISSED THAT TRIGGER. i'm going to have to remember that for the GP so i don't get accused of cheating. jesus christ. thanks.
went to another tourney tonight. here's a brief writeup:
2 - 0 v BW Tokens
i didn't feel very throated by BW tokens. won game 1 fairly easily after a Staticaster landed T3 to wipe 3 Spirits from Spectral, followed by a combo. i mulled to 5 game 2 and got blown out by a Zealous Persecution taking out my dorks and then by Intangible Virtue on Procession. game 3 i combo'd off pretty fast.
2 - 1 v UWR Control
this is my scariest matchup for sure. game 1 i managed to play around counters to land a late Pod and combo'd off a few turns later. game 2 i lost pretty badly to counters and burn before a stony silence shut me out. game 3 i managed to play around a cryptic command to Pod and combo off in Turn 4 after time had been called. very close.
1 - 1 - 1 v Fae
this was the same guy i played yesterday. i took game 1 very easily. i punted game 2 very hard by not blocking a faerie with a resto angel before he flashed in the lord to pump for lethal. i would have lived and swung lethal the following turn. game 3 i also punted by not swining for lethal in Turn 4 of extra time with 2 flipped Huntmasters and 2 wolves, instead going for the combo (forgetting flipped HM has CMC of 0). oh well.
2 - 1 v Scapeshift
this was not the same guy i played yesterday. he ran cryptics instead of prime time. game 1 was easy because he was land screwed. in fact i had no idea what he was playing because all i saw was a couple steam vents (i assumed UR delver). game 2 he hit me for 45 with a scapeshift, so i knew how to properly board. game 3 i got there before he could get going.
overall i'm 6-0-1 in past two days. Kiki Pod seems very, very well positioned right now. still haven't played affinity or zoo.
*edit* i should also mentioned i've played about 10 matches against Melira Pod over the last two weeks. i'd say i'm about 55/45. it usually comes down to who can resolve Pod/Linvala first. still, i think Kiki is slightly favoured.
This matchup doesn't feel like a problem for us. In game two I couldn't get past his turn 2 Bitterblossom on the beatdown plan with no Pod, no Qasali, no Sliver, and no other sideboard cards. I handled Game 1 and 3 pretty easily.
Game 1, without my immense sideboard hate, was a close race. I combo'd off before he could resolve a Scapeshift. Game 2 was fairly easy after drawing my hate. Interesting note -- his list was playing Courser of Kruphix. Not sure how I felt about it.
I hate this matchup. I think it's very bad for Pod. Game 1 he had Tron on turn 3, but no Karn. Still, I had no Pod--only an active Domri--and lost to a Pyroclasm with Relic, followed by an Emrakul next turn. No chance. Game 2 I combo'd off on turn 4 before he had a chance to do anything. Game 3 he landed a Karn on turn 3 on the play. I followed with a turn 3 pod. I think he lost the match on turn 4 by ticking Karn up to exile from my hand rather than exile pod. Turn 4 I played a Finks and Podded into a Riders, blowing up Power Plant (saw him fetch a 2nd Tower on his turn). Turn 5 he played a second Power Plant (later he said he had one of each in his hand, so it didn't matter). He ticked Karn up again, rather than hitting Pod and Riders or Finks or the Dork. My hand contained Redcap and Kiki. I thought I punted by giving him redcap, but realized I had a 4-drop on the table anyway. He tapped out to mainphase his stuff. On my turn I Podded Riders into Conscripts, untapped Pod, Podded the Finks into Resto, bounced Conscripts, untapped Pod, then Podded Resto into Kiki -- game over. In short, I probably should have lost the matchup but for my opponents play mistakes.
Sideboard In: l Aven Mindcensor, 1 Thalia, 1 Avalanche Riders. I had no idea how to board against this matchup. Question: does Spirit of the Labyrinth just hose Tron out of the sideboard? All that artifact sac and draw.
I think the KF over wall of roots is cute at best... I just don't love it. It's slow, I'd rather pod to a wall of roots 90% of the time.
i tend to agree. i am loathe to get rid of roots right now since nacatl is back, as well. we do so much damage to ourselves as it is, i don't need to be taking aggro beats as well.
Wall of roots is soooo nice early turns against aggro or even a medium sized goyf.
agree. one of the 4-0 lists for the first post-ban MTGO daily ran 1 Roots and 2 Omens!
I think the KF over wall of roots is cute at best... I just don't love it. It's slow, I'd rather pod to a wall of roots 90% of the time.
i tend to agree. i am loathe to get rid of roots right now since nacatl is back, as well. we do so much damage to ourselves as it is, i don't need to be taking aggro beats as well.
Honestly I dont like Kataki, Thalia, Aven Mindcensor,or Fiery Justice. I feel any of those could be cut for Canonist. It would make most sense to cut Thalia for it.
hmm. i'm not saying you're wrong, because everyone has their own preferences and opinions. for me, thalia has been great when i need her (burn / control / combo). fiery justice is a blowout against decks with small toughness creatures. and aven mindcensor is fantastic against pod and any search combo decks. those are my thoughts, at least. kataki is pretty narrow. and it isn't even the best against affinity, though it certainly helps. that is a slot i'm willing to compromise on.
a little bit of digression. i saw in this thread discussion over Kiora's Follower. i wasn't a believer until i playtested with it (albeit a small playtest sample). it is really, really good. i took out wall of roots (because i play domri) and added follower. i remember a game that went like this (on the play against combo):
T!: Land -> Tap Land -> Bird
T2: Missed Land Drop -> Tap Land -> Tap Bird -> Play Kiora's Follower
T3: Missed Land Drop -> Tap Land and Bird -> Tap KF to Untap Bird -> Tap Bird and Take 2 Life -> Play Pod
T4: Missed Land Drop -> Tap Bird and Take 2 Life to Pod Bird into Voice -> Tap KF to Untap Pod -> Tap Land and 2 Life to Pod Voice into Finks
T5: Land -> Tap Land at Take 2 to Pod Finks into Resto Angel -> Bounce Finks -> Tap KF to Untap Pod -> Tap Land and Take 2 Life to Pod Finks into Linvala
now, i know i was lucky to be against a non-interactive deck in this situation. and i'm lucky he didn't combo off before i got Linvala out. i'm only recounting the sequence of events to demonstrate how powerful KF can be.
bah. i had a huge response typed and my browser threw up. summary--i think his deck is faster and if we don't have an answer in the first 2-3 turns we are just dead to timewalk. i think the sideboard play is right--thalia, canonist (don't play her anymore but think i should again), fiery justice, avalanche riders, and some sort of GY hate for recursion (relic for me).
Linvala would presumably be good too, if they have dorks. Also, I'd highly suggest keeping Canonist in the SB. There aren't a ton of decks in this meta she's useful against, but the ones where she is useful happen to be some of our worse matchups - Storm, Infect, Living End, Amulet of Vigor combo, and mono-g devotion, as well as other various combo brews that could potentially be faster than us.
yes, good point. i think i should definitely play Canonist again. i also play Linvala is the mainboard. i think we're going to see a ton of Melira and it's just so good against them. sneak out some game 1 wins. maybe it's not right.
anyway, here's my sideboard. most obvious target for getting Canonist back in is going to 2 paths. am i right?
this deck is a serious problem for us and the one we need to talk about the most. i have never beat my friend's build on trice after about 5 matches, and i got blown out again. he wasn't playing genesis wave. he was playing nykthos / prime time / garruk / hoof / and eternal command/witness time walk recursion. he just doesn't care about what i'm doing, and i just had no answers. i don't think my sideboard is tuned to answer his deck aside from fiery justice. need serious help.
I may be wrong in this, but at least in game 1 shouldn't you be able to combo faster than him? Especially when you have things like Qasali and Staticaster that can slow him down...
For the sideboard game depending on what kind of hate he brings it may be harder, but unless they play Torpor Orb (which is probably a bad idea in a deck with 4xWitness), it should still be winnable. All the hate is either nonpermanent or artifact, so it won't help them ramp with Nykthos. And we can bring in Thalia (and Canonist, if playing her), Harmonic Sliver for the Utopia Sprawl/Fertile Grounds, and Avalanche Riders (should be quite devastating if timed well, we can get a 3-for-1 or more, and that's not even counting what happens if we're holding Angel of Restoration).
I played a few games (SB and non SB) against such a deck last Friday (not in a tournament) and I won most of them. It's true that they get unstoppable if not dealt with and you get punished for weak openings, but the same is true of Affinity, Zoo, Tron...
bah. i had a huge response typed and my browser threw up. summary--i think his deck is faster and if we don't have an answer in the first 2-3 turns we are just dead to timewalk. i think the sideboard play is right--thalia, canonist (don't play her anymore but think i should again), fiery justice, avalanche riders, and some sort of GY hate for recursion (relic for me).
here's a brief writeup from my modern tourney tonight. i went 4-2. this was a great showing for huntmaster.
1 - 2 v Melira Pod
this matchup feels exactly as it did before the DRS ban. i barely noticed their inability to exile a persist trigger, and noble hierarch slides right in seamlessly. i still think this is a favourable matchup for Kiki. i didn't see a pod in all three games, which is enough to be a difference. huntmaster was great in this matchup and pretty match demanded an answer immediately, which freed me up to combo.
2 - 1 v UWR Control
if you can stick a sigarda out of the sideboard the game is pretty much over. she is a complete house. best play was copying a clique with image at 3 life to remove a burn spell, then podding clique into huntmaster to get out of burn range. huntmaster took over after that.
2 - 0 v Red Deck Wins
this match was not even close. in game 1, huntmaster gained life and attracted burn instantly, which meant it wasn't coming at my face. then i hard cast Kiki on T5 to combo out. i'm much better out of the board, even considering blood moon. dropping thalia and holding up negate mana was too much for him.
2 - 0 v GW Hatebears
this match was a serious pain in the ass. not only was i land screwed, but his land denial made things worse. still, i was able to resolve pod before getting seriously screwed (as in 1 mana dork and 0 lands). our deck is way too resilient and his deck couldn't finish me off. the match went to time but i pulled it out. huntmaster was a beast.
0 - 2 Mono Green
this deck is a serious problem for us and the one we need to talk about the most. i have never beat my friend's build on trice after about 5 matches, and i got blown out again. he wasn't playing genesis wave. he was playing nykthos / prime time / garruk / hoof / and eternal command/witness time walk recursion. he just doesn't care about what i'm doing, and i just had no answers. i don't think my sideboard is tuned to answer his deck aside from fiery justice. need serious help.
2 - 1 Melira Pod
rematch with the deck i played at the start. this time i saw pods and my favourable matchup took over.
so does Spirit of the Labyrinth work in a non-punishing fire list? the mana isn't so weak there, and Marsh Flats become better as a fetchland (i only point that out because i'm playing 4 alongside 4 mires and 3 verdents -- an availability thing). and if we're adding white, do we add souls, too?
With land prison-esque decks making a comeback recently I don't know if it would be the best idea. Jund Depths, Lands, and even RUG Delver all being bigger decks at this point in time makes this a bad idea. Maybe a light splash to make it work, but Chains seems like a better card to play.
At that point you might wanna play a straight up Junk/Dark Maverick list than a Jund/Junk hybrid.
that is a good point. for discussion purposes only, this is the decklist i'd envision:
yet to be seen, since all 3 would be in top 8. ridiculous.
1 UWR Midrange
1 Kiki Pod
1 Living End
1 Zoo
1 Faeries
1 Tempo Twin
i hope you didn't trade Voice for Skite straight up, as Voice is worth twice as much (don't know MTGO pricing though). as for Skite, he is tremendous in Kiki. absolutely mandatory i think. with regards Fae, i've found the matchup pretty heavily favoured for us. it could be that Fae gets better as people learn to pilot it. i think you have to approach Fae as you approach UWR, which is to be conscious of counter magic and be patient.
DEFINITELY MISSED THAT TRIGGER. i'm going to have to remember that for the GP so i don't get accused of cheating. jesus christ. thanks.
2 - 0 v BW Tokens
i didn't feel very throated by BW tokens. won game 1 fairly easily after a Staticaster landed T3 to wipe 3 Spirits from Spectral, followed by a combo. i mulled to 5 game 2 and got blown out by a Zealous Persecution taking out my dorks and then by Intangible Virtue on Procession. game 3 i combo'd off pretty fast.
2 - 1 v UWR Control
this is my scariest matchup for sure. game 1 i managed to play around counters to land a late Pod and combo'd off a few turns later. game 2 i lost pretty badly to counters and burn before a stony silence shut me out. game 3 i managed to play around a cryptic command to Pod and combo off in Turn 4 after time had been called. very close.
1 - 1 - 1 v Fae
this was the same guy i played yesterday. i took game 1 very easily. i punted game 2 very hard by not blocking a faerie with a resto angel before he flashed in the lord to pump for lethal. i would have lived and swung lethal the following turn. game 3 i also punted by not swining for lethal in Turn 4 of extra time with 2 flipped Huntmasters and 2 wolves, instead going for the combo (forgetting flipped HM has CMC of 0). oh well.
2 - 1 v Scapeshift
this was not the same guy i played yesterday. he ran cryptics instead of prime time. game 1 was easy because he was land screwed. in fact i had no idea what he was playing because all i saw was a couple steam vents (i assumed UR delver). game 2 he hit me for 45 with a scapeshift, so i knew how to properly board. game 3 i got there before he could get going.
overall i'm 6-0-1 in past two days. Kiki Pod seems very, very well positioned right now. still haven't played affinity or zoo.
*edit* i should also mentioned i've played about 10 matches against Melira Pod over the last two weeks. i'd say i'm about 55/45. it usually comes down to who can resolve Pod/Linvala first. still, i think Kiki is slightly favoured.
2 - 1 v Faeries
This matchup doesn't feel like a problem for us. In game two I couldn't get past his turn 2 Bitterblossom on the beatdown plan with no Pod, no Qasali, no Sliver, and no other sideboard cards. I handled Game 1 and 3 pretty easily.
Sideboard In: 2 Negate, 1 Thalia, 1 Fiery Justice, 1 Harmonic Sliver.
2 - 0 v Scapeshift
Game 1, without my immense sideboard hate, was a close race. I combo'd off before he could resolve a Scapeshift. Game 2 was fairly easy after drawing my hate. Interesting note -- his list was playing Courser of Kruphix. Not sure how I felt about it.
Sideboard In: 2 Negate, 1 Thalia, 1 Aven Mindcensor, 1 Avalanche Riders.
2 - 1 v Green Tron
I hate this matchup. I think it's very bad for Pod. Game 1 he had Tron on turn 3, but no Karn. Still, I had no Pod--only an active Domri--and lost to a Pyroclasm with Relic, followed by an Emrakul next turn. No chance. Game 2 I combo'd off on turn 4 before he had a chance to do anything. Game 3 he landed a Karn on turn 3 on the play. I followed with a turn 3 pod. I think he lost the match on turn 4 by ticking Karn up to exile from my hand rather than exile pod. Turn 4 I played a Finks and Podded into a Riders, blowing up Power Plant (saw him fetch a 2nd Tower on his turn). Turn 5 he played a second Power Plant (later he said he had one of each in his hand, so it didn't matter). He ticked Karn up again, rather than hitting Pod and Riders or Finks or the Dork. My hand contained Redcap and Kiki. I thought I punted by giving him redcap, but realized I had a 4-drop on the table anyway. He tapped out to mainphase his stuff. On my turn I Podded Riders into Conscripts, untapped Pod, Podded the Finks into Resto, bounced Conscripts, untapped Pod, then Podded Resto into Kiki -- game over. In short, I probably should have lost the matchup but for my opponents play mistakes.
Sideboard In: l Aven Mindcensor, 1 Thalia, 1 Avalanche Riders. I had no idea how to board against this matchup. Question: does Spirit of the Labyrinth just hose Tron out of the sideboard? All that artifact sac and draw.
agree. one of the 4-0 lists for the first post-ban MTGO daily ran 1 Roots and 2 Omens!
i tend to agree. i am loathe to get rid of roots right now since nacatl is back, as well. we do so much damage to ourselves as it is, i don't need to be taking aggro beats as well.
hmm. i'm not saying you're wrong, because everyone has their own preferences and opinions. for me, thalia has been great when i need her (burn / control / combo). fiery justice is a blowout against decks with small toughness creatures. and aven mindcensor is fantastic against pod and any search combo decks. those are my thoughts, at least. kataki is pretty narrow. and it isn't even the best against affinity, though it certainly helps. that is a slot i'm willing to compromise on.
a little bit of digression. i saw in this thread discussion over Kiora's Follower. i wasn't a believer until i playtested with it (albeit a small playtest sample). it is really, really good. i took out wall of roots (because i play domri) and added follower. i remember a game that went like this (on the play against combo):
T!: Land -> Tap Land -> Bird
T2: Missed Land Drop -> Tap Land -> Tap Bird -> Play Kiora's Follower
T3: Missed Land Drop -> Tap Land and Bird -> Tap KF to Untap Bird -> Tap Bird and Take 2 Life -> Play Pod
T4: Missed Land Drop -> Tap Bird and Take 2 Life to Pod Bird into Voice -> Tap KF to Untap Pod -> Tap Land and 2 Life to Pod Voice into Finks
T5: Land -> Tap Land at Take 2 to Pod Finks into Resto Angel -> Bounce Finks -> Tap KF to Untap Pod -> Tap Land and Take 2 Life to Pod Finks into Linvala
now, i know i was lucky to be against a non-interactive deck in this situation. and i'm lucky he didn't combo off before i got Linvala out. i'm only recounting the sequence of events to demonstrate how powerful KF can be.
yes, good point. i think i should definitely play Canonist again. i also play Linvala is the mainboard. i think we're going to see a ton of Melira and it's just so good against them. sneak out some game 1 wins. maybe it's not right.
anyway, here's my sideboard. most obvious target for getting Canonist back in is going to 2 paths. am i right?
2 Negate
1 Fiery Justice
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
bah. i had a huge response typed and my browser threw up. summary--i think his deck is faster and if we don't have an answer in the first 2-3 turns we are just dead to timewalk. i think the sideboard play is right--thalia, canonist (don't play her anymore but think i should again), fiery justice, avalanche riders, and some sort of GY hate for recursion (relic for me).
1 - 2 v Melira Pod
this matchup feels exactly as it did before the DRS ban. i barely noticed their inability to exile a persist trigger, and noble hierarch slides right in seamlessly. i still think this is a favourable matchup for Kiki. i didn't see a pod in all three games, which is enough to be a difference. huntmaster was great in this matchup and pretty match demanded an answer immediately, which freed me up to combo.
2 - 1 v UWR Control
if you can stick a sigarda out of the sideboard the game is pretty much over. she is a complete house. best play was copying a clique with image at 3 life to remove a burn spell, then podding clique into huntmaster to get out of burn range. huntmaster took over after that.
2 - 0 v Red Deck Wins
this match was not even close. in game 1, huntmaster gained life and attracted burn instantly, which meant it wasn't coming at my face. then i hard cast Kiki on T5 to combo out. i'm much better out of the board, even considering blood moon. dropping thalia and holding up negate mana was too much for him.
2 - 0 v GW Hatebears
this match was a serious pain in the ass. not only was i land screwed, but his land denial made things worse. still, i was able to resolve pod before getting seriously screwed (as in 1 mana dork and 0 lands). our deck is way too resilient and his deck couldn't finish me off. the match went to time but i pulled it out. huntmaster was a beast.
0 - 2 Mono Green
this deck is a serious problem for us and the one we need to talk about the most. i have never beat my friend's build on trice after about 5 matches, and i got blown out again. he wasn't playing genesis wave. he was playing nykthos / prime time / garruk / hoof / and eternal command/witness time walk recursion. he just doesn't care about what i'm doing, and i just had no answers. i don't think my sideboard is tuned to answer his deck aside from fiery justice. need serious help.
2 - 1 Melira Pod
rematch with the deck i played at the start. this time i saw pods and my favourable matchup took over.
that is a good point. for discussion purposes only, this is the decklist i'd envision:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lingering Souls
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdent Catacombs
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Wasteland
1 Taiga
1 Swamp
1 Forest