MTG Salvation

Quote from darksteel88 »

I disagree about blue diversity. After the Twin ban, it took a little bit but blue popped out of the woodworks. Say what you want about changes since, but Ancestral Vision wasn't even seeing play consistently (and still isn't). GDS doesn't hinge on any new cards like Fatal Push, it would have been fine just jamming Bolts or other removal like Dreadbore/Terminate. We have much better diversity now with blue than we've basically ever had (now being pre-Jace). Even pre-Search for Azcanta the diversity was better.

We remember different eras...
Blue decks faded into oblivion after the twin ban. Tempo variants began to make a comback with the printing of spell queller, but even then they did not become an expected part of day two meta games until after search was printed.

I will say this, the new way they are presenting 5-0 decks on MTGO is interesting.
It makes it harder to tell the overall state of the meta (since it only shows unique decks) but it does show variance. (new list published today).

My personal take on Jace: I hope it does what the twin-ban was never able to accomplish: increase the variation in blue decks.
If Jace can make non UWx decks viable without skewing the meta around those decks: I would consider it a win.

If Jace can propell RUG (scapeshift and control), BUG, Mono-Blue TimeWalk, Grixis Control, etc. from "fringe" into main-stream without skewing the meta dramatically I would consider that a win.

Quote from Methx »

Hey Guys,

i testet a few rounds against jeskai control feat. JtmS yesterday.
I won all three Preboard games without issues.

After Boarding the Matchup gets a lot worse. He bring in wear/tear, abrade, stony silence, Engineered Explosives, Vendilion Clique, 2 Dispel. I feel so far behind in the postboard games. I have to manage the jace, the creatures, a bunch of burnspells and his hate cards. Most i can control the creatures, jace and the hate, but then
loose to burn spells. Or i handle the burn, and creatures, then the pithing needle gets bounced and countered and jace finished me off.

Whats your advices in this matchup?
Many Guides says to board out the Witchbane Orb, Spellbomb and a Pithing Needle and put in 2 decays and a search for azcanta. I guess the needle should stay in the md and the third from the sb come to the maindeck.
So there should come 1 Needle, 2 Decay, 1 Search and maybe a Aethgrid against jace. But what should i board out, 1 Bridge, the orb and a spellbomb.

Whats your strategy in this mu and how do you play?
After the games i thought, thats not possible to handle everything. On Sunday i test the matchup more and try to mill the burnspells, handle the creatures with bridge and protect it.

Thanks dor your advice.

Quote from Methx »

Hey Guys,

i testet a few rounds against jeskai control feat. JtmS yesterday.
I won all three Preboard games without issues.

After Boarding the Matchup gets a lot worse. He bring in wear/tear, abrade, stony silence, Engineered Explosives, Vendilion Clique, 2 Dispel. I feel so far behind in the postboard games. I have to manage the jace, the creatures, a bunch of burnspells and his hate cards. Most i can control the creatures, jace and the hate, but then
loose to burn spells. Or i handle the burn, and creatures, then the pithing needle gets bounced and countered and jace finished me off.

Whats your advices in this matchup?
Many Guides says to board out the Witchbane Orb, Spellbomb and a Pithing Needle and put in 2 decays and a search for azcanta. I guess the needle should stay in the md and the third from the sb come to the maindeck.
So there should come 1 Needle, 2 Decay, 1 Search and maybe a Aethgrid against jace. But what should i board out, 1 Bridge, the orb and a spellbomb.

Whats your strategy in this mu and how do you play?
After the games i thought, thats not possible to handle everything. On Sunday i test the matchup more and try to mill the burnspells, handle the creatures with bridge and protect it.

Thanks dor your advice.

Are you sure the guides said board out pithing needle?
All the guides I've read state to board out cage.

Based on the PT list (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18360&d=313973&f=MO) this is how I would SB against Jace builds...
OUT
-1 cage
-1 bauble
-1 mox opal
-1 pyrite spellbomb
-1 pyxis
-1 orb
-1 whir

IN
+1 search
+1 abrupt decay
+1 collective brutality
+2 Tez
+1 nature's claim
+1 welding jar / maelstorm pulse / keep 4th whir in / pithing needle
(last spot is a flex spot that changes depending on their build and what I see).


My reasoning: against stony silence decks you typically slim down on the number of baubles/opals you run in addition to bringing in tez.
You want to increase your likelihood of winning through a stony.

You can slim whir because they often bring in dispels. Typically whir is used to force them to tap out on their turn anyways (so you can main phase push artifacts through).

I would not side out a pithing needle unless you are already playing 3. And even with the new jace builds... I could see justification for bringing it in.

The challenge with Jeskai is knowing their deck. How many burn spells do they have left? How many burn spells could they possibly be in their hand (including things like snap-caster + cryptic)? etc. You need all that knowledge to know what to mill correctly.

Quote from Saandro »

Quote from axman »

Quote from Saandro »

Quote from Pouncing Kavu »

Man, I feel like the only non-conspiracy theorist here who actually believes that WOTC honestly judged JTMS to a fair card in modern again. I mean, let's say that's the case, they really truly believe that modern is ready for him. Would you then want them to reprint Jace in their next masters set, or not?

I agree it does feel a little greedy, but I don't think that's the only (or even simplest) explanation here.

Even if Jace won't break modern, the point is that modern was incredibly healthy and balanced. From this point on a Jace unban can only make the format worse. And they still went with it. Because they don't care about the format but about the money. And Wizards being greedy is by far the simplest explanation here, considering everything that has been happening the past few years. Like the worse quality of cards. The prime example of WotCs greed.

That's not entirely true. We can not absolutely say "Jace will make the format worse" simply because the format is currently in a decent spot.
"Incredibly healthy and balanced" is overstatement of the facts. For example, control decks still have a relativly low conversion rate in comparison to the rest of the field.

But it is still relatively healthy and balanced.

Not absolutely, but all things considered that would be the a far more reasonable conclusion, than Jace improving the format in any way.

Like I said, control decks have a lower conversion rate than any other deck in the meta.
If Jace increases that conversion rate without skewing the meta, then you'd be incorrect.

Quote from destroyermaker »

Jace is inferior to Tezz. Jace lets you draw a card or so, but you dont want card advantage in this deck. Jace is a 4-mana sorcery speed Shredder (how awful). Tezz on the other hand digs 5 cards deep and offers a stupid fast clock.

https://twitter.com/utdzac/status/963086442548355072

Putting Jace in Lantern would be a very large mistake.

https://twitter.com/SamuelHBlack/status/963094653775032320

I'm not so sure. I think people are undervaluing Jace.
Jace is actually an absurdly fast clock as well. Albit in a different manner.

I think it deserves testing.

Quote from Mortal Coil »

Quote from idSurge »

lol following Twitter, I feel a huge desire to build a deck that simply spits in Jace's face. It can be done, and I think it can be done cheap.

It's called Bogles. ;-)

Seriously though, people are overhyping him a bit. After the period where everyone is jamming Jace in everything, I think most players will finally get what his impact on the format is. He gives Blue decks a way to grind card advantage in the late game. With modern level interaction, his Fateseal isn't as good Codex Shredder's. U/W and Jeskai will play him, for sure. Death's Shadow doesn't want him. Storm doesn't want him. Lantern sure as heck doesn't want him. U/R combo moon decks would probably rather run more combo pieces in the main, but might side him in against midrange. Out of the tier 3 nonsense, Grixis and Esper tap out control will likely be the big winners. Mono U Tron might be interested as well. That said, unless something new crops up in the next set, I don't foresee him utterly wrecking the Meta.

On another note, it's nice to BBE off the list as well. I think she's a great card for Modern. It always baffled me why Bloodbraid got the axe over Deathrite, especially considering how slow BBE is. Once Stoneforge and (The Card That Shall Not Be Named) come off, we'll have a reasonable ban list.

I could see lantern wanting him... but yea. That's on the fence.

Quote from Impossible »

Quote from maestersinger1 »

Also, you cannot have it both ways. If they unbanned Jace with no reprint then people will say there was not enough supply and the cost of entry barrier would be unfair.

Reprinted at mytic in a Masters set? Oh yes, that'll sure balance the price out to a reasonable level. /sarcasm

Wizards is generating hype for Modern with the first "real" Modern PT in a long time (the last one was PT "Oops we printed too many Eldrazi") and then multiple high-profile unbannings, all in the month leading up to the release of their most hyped Masters set -- the "this one is nothing but the best cards from Magic's history you guys, for real this time" Masters set. It's really hard to see this as anything but another way to boost sluggish Masters sales after releasing 3 sets within 12 months.

Then why didn't they unban it during eternal masters?

Quote from Havrekjex »

Quote from WizardMN »

I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply?

Reprinting JTMS to meet supply caused by a well-founded unban that would happen anyway? Good. Unbanning JTMS with the main intention being to make a reprint set sell? Not good. Which one is this?

I am fairly certain they did not unban him just to sell M25.

I must confess... I am surprised people are talking about the unban like the sky is falling.

1) BBE + JTMS has been on the "probable" unban list for a very long time. It was always speculated that these cards were a package deal (you couldn't unban one without unbanning the other).
2) M25 is not the reason why JTMS is unbanned. If it was: why didn't they unban it during eternal masters? Or any other time they reprinted JTMS?
3) JTMS is not great vs fast linear decks. I don't think it will skew the meta as much as people are fearing. Control decks under-performed at the PT (in terms of conversion rates).

Quote from Havrekjex »

Quote from RxPhantom »

Quote from Havrekjex »

Also, look at JTMS' price movement for the last few days and tell me that some people don't get inside info.

To be fair though, JTMS and Bloodbraid have been speculation targets for unbanning for a while now. They always see some movement in the days prior to B&R announcements.

People have been talking about that for many months, but the price movement started very suddenly and sharply a few days ago, as if by the flick of a switch. You can see from the price curve exactly when the info was passed on or leaked. Compare it to the SFM speculation movement from some time ago and observe the difference.

Like I said before: a few days ago a fake MTGO screen shot with JTMS getting unbanned surfaced.
Spike happened around that time.

The card that really put Twin over the top was Dispel. Even if you wanted to interact with Twin, you really couldn't do so effectively, because any form of interaction *had* to be instant speed, and dispel stuffs that like nobody's business. It was on-par or better at fighting counter wars than any other counterspell deck in the format. So.. you were just generally better off not trying to interact.

Twin is like a DEA officer with a crack dealing business on the side.

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Anyone else been testing out Liliana of the Dark Realms? I've been finding she's pretty incredible.

• Adds BB to devotion without being a creature.
• Guarantees future land drops.
• Guarantees Pack Rat activations.
• Solid removal spell that can destroy gods.
• Randomly a game-ending pump spell.

Its unfortunate her ultimate doesn't do much for our deck. I've been liking a 2-of a lot though.