So I've been playing this deck for about 2 weeks now on MTGO and didnt event realize I've been playing the deck without Ancient Stirrings in my 75.
No reason... I just complete forgot to add it. Had no clue until I was watching this weekends SCG event and someone played it.
I used to play G Tron in paper, now just MTGO and I guess it just missed it. Not having physical cards in front of you make deck building different.
Upside! The deck has been fine without it even if there is a banning. Now that I realized its not in I might actually take out Expedition Maps to add them. Crazy right? I find map too slow.
Big picture, with the new London Mulligan and aggressive mulligans this deck is fine without.
Personally I think the the Mulligan rule needs to go an it makes deck like Tron seriously consistent. However, it does make sideboard cards more viable.
I just thought it would be cool to share. Before Hogaak/Bridge there was tons of talk about Stirrings banning and I'm not worried about it anymore.
I can defiantly see your take on Mariner and happy to has some experience with it. I was evaluating the card in that sense as well but I haven't tried him yet. Regardless, I love the card and going to give him a go just to show off his legs.
Overall, Mariner is actually a REALLY powerful card... in the right meta and one day he may be very viable in Spirits. I feel like many overlooked him in MH, however. With the current state of modern, he's just not that good. I'm not too thrilled with the state of modern at the moment. I feel every new archetype is shifting the format to be less and less interactive. It's like most decks are just rushing to do they're own thing they do best and that's it.
I am curious to see how things shake up with the next banning announcement. I really feel like they are going to bring back something(s). Nevertheless, here is not the discussion for that.
I dont know why people cant see Goyf in a standard set. He probably woulnd be that good in limited and fine in standard.
You also forget the card was nothing when it first came out. Its a lot better in legacy and modern. There is no reason why he cant be printed in standard.
I just want to say, I have been very, very impressed with the results this deck has been putting up of late. And suprised to be honest. I have been follow it an it seems to consistently make TOP 8, but appears to struggle hitting a 1st place. It's interesting, this deck just needs something to place it as that 1st place contender.
I need to be following this thread more. I have been building this deck, with excitement, just missing some fetch lands.
Once I get it fully running I plan on playing it regularly to see where I can get it. But thank all of you guys for shared your games and thought process. I want to see this deck hit 1st at a big event.
Okay, so its not just me on the Image being the next week link to cut.
Tweaks:
I like the idea of Moorland Haunt. 3 CMC to snap in a Spirit and trigger a Wonderer into a Spell Pierce? Okay! I dig. Is it better then Township which can do the same on 5 CMC? Idk...
Runed Halo sounds like a cute idea? I'm going to look into more scenarios where I might want that.
I feel like out of those 3 Reflector Mage has the best shot, but what makes him better than another Path for 1 CMC? 3 CMC Sorcery speed can make or break a game at times.
Dispel and Negate is where I'm holding in agreement to right now. Like I said in my earlier post, I really wish I had more disruption and I think that's the key but that from my personal experience.
It does look like we have disruption in our crazed little Cursecatcher and Spellqueller, but its also so obvious for our opponent to play around. Any player will play their valued card around Cursecather so hes more like a tax. And a smart player will bait into Spellqueller. Spellqueller also doesn't hit some key cards like Ad Nauseam for example. Having that 1 cmc up for Spell Pierce can really protect you. I'm going to give it a while w/ some kind of split w/ 3 counter magic MD because there have been some games where I looked at my Paths or Steel or even Spellqueller, and rally wish it was a counter to pull me through that one extra turn.
Sadly it doesn't leave much room for flex but here is what I'm thinking:
i was thinking about the Rhox War monk/steel of the godhead thing. In the most played version of this deck, "lifegain" cards usually get 4 slots, 2 in the main deck and 2 in the sideboard. These 4 slots seldom see the inclusion of more spirits (Kira, Nebelghast Herald) or Favorable Winds
Anyway, the most often played split is 2 Steel of the Godhead MB and 2 Blessed Alliance SB
NOTE: blessed alliance is an extremely versatile card and I love it! I was even thinking about moving it in the mainboard in a 2+2 split with Path to exile, because of so many decks not playing relevant creatures these days!
Even though i personally like Steel of the Godhead, i feel like it's not what this deck wants.
This card is mainly there for Geist of Saint Traft, as a way to give him unblockability, and lifelink. In my opinion, indeed, the Geist+Steel synergy very rarely occurs, and the card has its maximum effect on Geist, Queller and Drogskol (which are blue and white creatures). These issues lead me to look for a more versatile and/or cheap alternative (or radically move to something else)
I was wondering about some alternatives to these:
Azorius Herald, which I don't like because of the fact that i's a nonbo with coco and it's mana inefficient
alternatives to Steel of the Godhead, like Lifelink
i was thinking also about Armadillo cloak (and its modern functional reprint which name I can't remember). It gives +2/+2 and lifelink to ANY creature, and trample can be a good substitute to pure evasion.
So, these are my conclusions about this aspect. I'm really curious about what is your opinion on the matter!
I couldn't agree with you more on the Rhox/ Steel front. Granted I don't have much play experience, but I still quickly noticed how much I would have preferred something more impactful in those slots. As much as I love Blessed Alliance I wouldn't place it in over Path simply due to it trigger only on attack, and opponent gets to choose if there are multiple. Overall that 'Attack Trigger' of Blessed Alliance can make or break a game. Still has defiantly appeared to be a win more senior.
The deck has awesome synergy, but I feel its slower then all other hyper agro decks out there, an doesn't have enough disruption to fight off combo and this is two areas where there should be a focus. I was thinking about dropping a few things to make 4 spot removal MD and add some Counter Magic MD as well. I don't know if its the right move, but That flex Steel/ Rhox spot looks like it would be better w/ some disruption to keep me ahead.
How are you guys feeling about Phantasmal Image? I don't like it... the Captain/ Clone combo is cute, but its not necessary. Between 4 Soulless and 4 Rattle Chains we can easily protect him as it is, so are we really just looking for the extra lord boost? Its another slot I think we can do better with.
Has anyone played w/ Nebelgast Herald? Is he useless? It looks like it might fit well to slow down other aggro builds. He basically looks like a week Merrow Reejerey.
I haven't tried it yet but I will be testing out Vapor Snag. This looks like a temp deck w/ tricks so I feel like Snag would be the way to go (unless you see a siege rhino) and I really don't like the idea of ramping my opponent up w/ Path when I want to be ahead of the game in a tempo build.
I feel like Phantasmal Image is the weakest card in the deck, does anyone else agree? The only card worth cloning is Captain, and I feel we have more then enough ways to protect him between Rattlechains and Selfless Spirit. I'll be dropping him for sure, I just feel like he's dead w/o Captain on the table.
What are everyone's thoughts on Steel of Godhead? I feel like its a big hit or miss? Meaning 2 for one situation or overkill attached to a Geist? I think I would prefer another creature in its spot like Rhox War Monk but I can play around.
I will also be trying Strangleroot Geist in place of Phantasmal Image. Yes, it CMC cost may be difficult T2 but it will give us the tempo play and its a body, especially after a T1 Hierarch is nice. Any thoughts on that?
Flying
Geralf's Masterpiece gets -1/-1 for each card in your hand.
3U, Discard three cards: Return Geralf's Materpiece from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
I like it. I was hoping for a card like that. I just wish it was in black or green. Probably makes a nice one of. What is it good against.
@protoaddict: I will never deny someones idea until I test it first, but I just feel Expedition Map is too slow, this isn't modern. I would rather see myself replacing all the Caverns with Wastes before I come down to playing Map's. Although Arab_Officer hold some reasonable point, but not ones I'm willing to bank on, I would rater be prepared.
The main reason I think those cards will become a problem is because of how strong of a showing Eldrazi seen in Philly this weekend. For a new deck, 4 in top 16th and one of them making 2nd place only opens up more to the future.
@headminerve:
I 100% agree with your 1st point on Matter Reshaper. Your 2nd and 3rd points are not wrong, its just that Phyrexian Revoker is an entirely different role. As I stated, he is more of a utility, I want him to shut down Top's if I dont land my Chalice, or Mind Sculptors if I do... you dont need me to provide more examples.
BTW @Arab_Officer:
+1 for the list, because it is identical to mine. I think Jitte is a must have for at least 1. Its just so strong.
My real question is, Matter Reshaper? Is it really something you'd want to play in your deck?
Gerry Thompson played 4 and made 2nd place this weekend with them.
Personally though, I don't like it. It is card advantage, but compared to all the other Eldrazi he looks weak. I feel like utility will be stronger, like Revoker or Endbringer.
Going further, I think a white or green splash is might be an optimal route. Otherwise, how else does this deck deal with Blood Moon, or even things like Moat, or Back to Basics... not that you really ever see Back to Basics.
But decks like Imperial Painter can be devastating if they drop a Blood Moon.
I thought about Culling Scales but I think it will be more of a problem then an asset. Like you said, it hits Mimic plus Endless One. Not to mention it kills Chalice which can be a big deal. The only deck that really worries me regarding Blood Moon is Imperial Painter, Bridge is a difficult one, but that might be easier to get around especially when we can play World Breaker.
I wouldn't say a while, but yes, probably a glitch.
Anyway... I would play no-reserved list legacy, although I wouldn't be happy about it, the lands are really necessary. Lets face it, I been playing this stupid game since Portal, and I'm sure many of you too. No matter what changes ill still be a whore and by into it because I still enjoy it.
I am afraid it might be too much like modern if that happens but who knows.
It was there working fine the day they announced Eternal Masters. I pulled up the reserve list that day of the announcement. But the past two days the link has been a dud. Using the search bar doesn't help either. If they are doing away with it 'no reserve list legacy' is nothing to worry about.
Thoughts? I know its not related to the topic, but its interesting.
No reason... I just complete forgot to add it. Had no clue until I was watching this weekends SCG event and someone played it.
I used to play G Tron in paper, now just MTGO and I guess it just missed it. Not having physical cards in front of you make deck building different.
Upside! The deck has been fine without it even if there is a banning. Now that I realized its not in I might actually take out Expedition Maps to add them. Crazy right? I find map too slow.
Big picture, with the new London Mulligan and aggressive mulligans this deck is fine without.
Personally I think the the Mulligan rule needs to go an it makes deck like Tron seriously consistent. However, it does make sideboard cards more viable.
I just thought it would be cool to share. Before Hogaak/Bridge there was tons of talk about Stirrings banning and I'm not worried about it anymore.
I can defiantly see your take on Mariner and happy to has some experience with it. I was evaluating the card in that sense as well but I haven't tried him yet. Regardless, I love the card and going to give him a go just to show off his legs.
Overall, Mariner is actually a REALLY powerful card... in the right meta and one day he may be very viable in Spirits. I feel like many overlooked him in MH, however. With the current state of modern, he's just not that good. I'm not too thrilled with the state of modern at the moment. I feel every new archetype is shifting the format to be less and less interactive. It's like most decks are just rushing to do they're own thing they do best and that's it.
I am curious to see how things shake up with the next banning announcement. I really feel like they are going to bring back something(s). Nevertheless, here is not the discussion for that.
You also forget the card was nothing when it first came out. Its a lot better in legacy and modern. There is no reason why he cant be printed in standard.
I need to be following this thread more. I have been building this deck, with excitement, just missing some fetch lands.
Once I get it fully running I plan on playing it regularly to see where I can get it. But thank all of you guys for shared your games and thought process. I want to see this deck hit 1st at a big event.
Tweaks:
I like the idea of Moorland Haunt. 3 CMC to snap in a Spirit and trigger a Wonderer into a Spell Pierce? Okay! I dig. Is it better then Township which can do the same on 5 CMC? Idk...
Runed Halo sounds like a cute idea? I'm going to look into more scenarios where I might want that.
I feel like out of those 3 Reflector Mage has the best shot, but what makes him better than another Path for 1 CMC? 3 CMC Sorcery speed can make or break a game at times.
Dispel and Negate is where I'm holding in agreement to right now. Like I said in my earlier post, I really wish I had more disruption and I think that's the key but that from my personal experience.
It does look like we have disruption in our crazed little Cursecatcher and Spellqueller, but its also so obvious for our opponent to play around. Any player will play their valued card around Cursecather so hes more like a tax. And a smart player will bait into Spellqueller. Spellqueller also doesn't hit some key cards like Ad Nauseam for example. Having that 1 cmc up for Spell Pierce can really protect you. I'm going to give it a while w/ some kind of split w/ 3 counter magic MD because there have been some games where I looked at my Paths or Steel or even Spellqueller, and rally wish it was a counter to pull me through that one extra turn.
Sadly it doesn't leave much room for flex but here is what I'm thinking:
4 Noble
4 Wanderer
4 Rattle Chains (maybe cut one for flex?)
4 Selfless
4 Spellqueller
4 Captain
3 Geist
4 CoCo
3 Path
3 Counter Split
1 flex?
22 land
This provides 27 hits for CoCo which is plenty. I really wish we had a bomb shell like Merfolk has Master of Waves.
An those playing Favorable WInds... yea... not liking that at all.
I couldn't agree with you more on the Rhox/ Steel front. Granted I don't have much play experience, but I still quickly noticed how much I would have preferred something more impactful in those slots. As much as I love Blessed Alliance I wouldn't place it in over Path simply due to it trigger only on attack, and opponent gets to choose if there are multiple. Overall that 'Attack Trigger' of Blessed Alliance can make or break a game. Still has defiantly appeared to be a win more senior.
The deck has awesome synergy, but I feel its slower then all other hyper agro decks out there, an doesn't have enough disruption to fight off combo and this is two areas where there should be a focus. I was thinking about dropping a few things to make 4 spot removal MD and add some Counter Magic MD as well. I don't know if its the right move, but That flex Steel/ Rhox spot looks like it would be better w/ some disruption to keep me ahead.
How are you guys feeling about Phantasmal Image? I don't like it... the Captain/ Clone combo is cute, but its not necessary. Between 4 Soulless and 4 Rattle Chains we can easily protect him as it is, so are we really just looking for the extra lord boost? Its another slot I think we can do better with.
Has anyone played w/ Nebelgast Herald? Is he useless? It looks like it might fit well to slow down other aggro builds. He basically looks like a week Merrow Reejerey.
I feel like Phantasmal Image is the weakest card in the deck, does anyone else agree? The only card worth cloning is Captain, and I feel we have more then enough ways to protect him between Rattlechains and Selfless Spirit. I'll be dropping him for sure, I just feel like he's dead w/o Captain on the table.
What are everyone's thoughts on Steel of Godhead? I feel like its a big hit or miss? Meaning 2 for one situation or overkill attached to a Geist? I think I would prefer another creature in its spot like Rhox War Monk but I can play around.
I will also be trying Strangleroot Geist in place of Phantasmal Image. Yes, it CMC cost may be difficult T2 but it will give us the tempo play and its a body, especially after a T1 Hierarch is nice. Any thoughts on that?
This is a really powerful card.
I like it. I was hoping for a card like that. I just wish it was in black or green. Probably makes a nice one of. What is it good against.
The main reason I think those cards will become a problem is because of how strong of a showing Eldrazi seen in Philly this weekend. For a new deck, 4 in top 16th and one of them making 2nd place only opens up more to the future.
@headminerve:
I 100% agree with your 1st point on Matter Reshaper. Your 2nd and 3rd points are not wrong, its just that Phyrexian Revoker is an entirely different role. As I stated, he is more of a utility, I want him to shut down Top's if I dont land my Chalice, or Mind Sculptors if I do... you dont need me to provide more examples.
BTW @Arab_Officer:
+1 for the list, because it is identical to mine. I think Jitte is a must have for at least 1. Its just so strong.
Gerry Thompson played 4 and made 2nd place this weekend with them.
Personally though, I don't like it. It is card advantage, but compared to all the other Eldrazi he looks weak. I feel like utility will be stronger, like Revoker or Endbringer.
Going further, I think a white or green splash is might be an optimal route. Otherwise, how else does this deck deal with Blood Moon, or even things like Moat, or Back to Basics... not that you really ever see Back to Basics.
But decks like Imperial Painter can be devastating if they drop a Blood Moon.
I'm still new to the deck and only just started playing it so I ask in an inquisitive way.
Anyway... I would play no-reserved list legacy, although I wouldn't be happy about it, the lands are really necessary. Lets face it, I been playing this stupid game since Portal, and I'm sure many of you too. No matter what changes ill still be a whore and by into it because I still enjoy it.
I am afraid it might be too much like modern if that happens but who knows.
On the Wizards web page, when I try to pull up their "reprint policy" and/or "reserve list" the page comes up with ERROR 404: Page not found.
Try the link: EDIT: You might want to copy and paste it, I may not have applied it correctly so it is clickable.
http://magic.wizards.com/go/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy
It was there working fine the day they announced Eternal Masters. I pulled up the reserve list that day of the announcement. But the past two days the link has been a dud. Using the search bar doesn't help either. If they are doing away with it 'no reserve list legacy' is nothing to worry about.
Thoughts? I know its not related to the topic, but its interesting.