Do we have a clear view of Esper's matchups now that the post-DGM meta is a little clearer?
When I was playing the Mill plan version of the deck pre-DGM, it felt like Aggro was slightly to moderately favorable depending on build, Midrange decks were even to slightly unfavorable with a much better post-board game due to Counterspells, UWR & Bant were highly favorable (I couldn't lose against most UWR builds), and Junk & Aristocrats were unfavorable. Has this changed much?
I played the reactive Drownyard version until DGM hit, and I've been playing Bant decks since then, now I'm tempted to switch back.
I'm seeing a lot of Superfriends-type lists on the MTGO dailies. Do those have a better matchup against Junk or Midrange? There seems to be a lot of that going around.
I bought the deck online and on paper, but I have only played online so far due to life being super-busy for me. I'm hoping I can sneak out to a paper Modern tournament soon.
My experience with online is that the deck is absurdly powerful but requires a lot of practice and skill to play. I am pretty sure I'm still punting matches I could have won. Sometimes this deck just eats Tier 1 decks alive and never lets them catch up.
A lot of the "fair" decks that win by grindy card advantage just don't match up with the cantrip power of the deck in my experience so far. I have played many games against the likes of UW or Jund where I thought I was losing and then I noticed that my opponent was down to one or even zero cards in hand and I still had a full grip.
Burn has been really hit or miss but Wurmcoil nearly feels like an auto-win unless they're holding an artifact kill spell, a bolt, and enough burn to kill you after Wurmcoil is dealt with. If I get one turn with the Engine or the Lifelink token online it's usually all over.
Would it benefit from Izzet Charm or Apostle's Blessing main? Blessing could help in being proactive by making Weird unblockable as well as being another "free" spell, and Izzet Charm can counter Lili, kill Spellskite to clear the way for Grapeshot, counter removal, or just loot.
The hero this deck needs is Pyroclasm. Comes down early, controls the board, provides CA. I tried the red splash, it improves your odds versus all-in aggro, but otherwise just dilutes the game plan to the point I gave up. It's the hero it needs, but it can't have it without transforming into another deck.
I've been playing this deck daily (not yet on events 'cause I wanted to know it really well, but soon). My tip to all you guys is to resist this incessant need we have to "tweak" and "improve" the deck. Nice effects are nice, but we must think about the role each card has in the build. Play the stock build at least 30 games (10-15 matches). Get a feel of it, learn the tricks. I thought I knew how to play it at the moment I saw it, but I have misplayed a lot of times in the first 10 games (and probably still do) and learnt a lot.
If you really believe something is "subpar" and should be replaced, I also would like to ask that you go ahead, make the changes, play a minimum of 30 games and report back with the results.
Not trying to be an idiot here, just want to make the thread helpful. I'm writing a primer and will contact shoktroopa/kharniverous to ask for revisions if he has the time, so I also need results to justify tweaks.
After playing for a few days I agree. I 2-2'ed the daily because I wasn't ready to play it yet after 10 games. I'm sure at least one of the two matches I lost could have gone my way if I knew the deck better. It's extremely nuanced, but when I make the right calls, the deck just blows out the game and opponents don't stand a chance.
I'm taking the core build back for another few days of practice games. The deck is powerful but requires airtight play to achieve consistency.
Happy to hear about your success, I might follow you in giving this a try. Are you playing any white cards MD, or is the plains just to enable hosers in the side?
Did you go up to 4 Solemns, or just 3 plus the other fixers?
Is it worth splashing white (through maybe one white basic to be tutored with map and solemn, plus the white talismans) for anti-aggro tech and enchantment removal, or is it better to just bounce and counter?
Just 2-2'ed a daily. Beat UW and Jund, lost to Jund w/Fulminator and some sort of 4-Color Gifts deck. Stony Silence was the thing that lost me G2 and G3 against 4-color.
Another thing I want to try is Fabricate instead of Treasure Mage. The 2/2 body is important in some matchups, but (as we're discussing) doesn't save you against dedicated aggro and Fabricate can fetch Oblivion Stone, Expedition Map and so on.
That's true, I end up feeling like Treasure Mage is a dead draw vs Aggro a lot of the time. I would love to get a wurmcoil, but if I've yet to assemble to Tron, I don't have enough to cast TM and then cast a 6 cost artifact. Fabricate could go get Spellskite if Skite is MD, too.
There are plenty of times I would have loved to get Threads. 3 CMC is something I'm confident I could get to, it's the UU that worries me.
I'm a HUGE fan of MD Skites. Card is ridiculous, especially in the current meta. My only issue is that I'm not confident to make any cuts to the MD list - maybe the O-Stone? But running 1 Skite with no tutors does not seem consistent.
Against aggro I find myself wanting counters but not so many as I usually get. I spend too much time building up my board and tapping out to counter. Maybe replace one or two counters with spellskites in addition to the stone?
Kaijin, Spellskite, and Dismember - I take it these are our prime anti-aggro tech. Are any of these worth maindecking? I'm assuming no for kaijin, but is spellskite good enough at protecting your threats that it's decent against control too? I've had more than one game so far that I would have won had Wurmcoil or Plat Angel lived one more turn.
Sorry that I am asking so many questions and providing few answers - I've yet to test more than a handful of matches. I'm going to play this in a few dailies over the weekend and should have more data to add to the conversation by then.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=56306
When I was playing the Mill plan version of the deck pre-DGM, it felt like Aggro was slightly to moderately favorable depending on build, Midrange decks were even to slightly unfavorable with a much better post-board game due to Counterspells, UWR & Bant were highly favorable (I couldn't lose against most UWR builds), and Junk & Aristocrats were unfavorable. Has this changed much?
I'm seeing a lot of Superfriends-type lists on the MTGO dailies. Do those have a better matchup against Junk or Midrange? There seems to be a lot of that going around.
My experience with online is that the deck is absurdly powerful but requires a lot of practice and skill to play. I am pretty sure I'm still punting matches I could have won. Sometimes this deck just eats Tier 1 decks alive and never lets them catch up.
A lot of the "fair" decks that win by grindy card advantage just don't match up with the cantrip power of the deck in my experience so far. I have played many games against the likes of UW or Jund where I thought I was losing and then I noticed that my opponent was down to one or even zero cards in hand and I still had a full grip.
Burn has been really hit or miss but Wurmcoil nearly feels like an auto-win unless they're holding an artifact kill spell, a bolt, and enough burn to kill you after Wurmcoil is dealt with. If I get one turn with the Engine or the Lifelink token online it's usually all over.
When I bought some singles from MTGOTraders, the seller said "I've sold four copies of this deck in the last hour."
I guess the budget factor really helps.
After playing for a few days I agree. I 2-2'ed the daily because I wasn't ready to play it yet after 10 games. I'm sure at least one of the two matches I lost could have gone my way if I knew the deck better. It's extremely nuanced, but when I make the right calls, the deck just blows out the game and opponents don't stand a chance.
I'm taking the core build back for another few days of practice games. The deck is powerful but requires airtight play to achieve consistency.
Did you go up to 4 Solemns, or just 3 plus the other fixers?
The original list 3-1'ed another daily, no 4-0s this time.
That's true, I end up feeling like Treasure Mage is a dead draw vs Aggro a lot of the time. I would love to get a wurmcoil, but if I've yet to assemble to Tron, I don't have enough to cast TM and then cast a 6 cost artifact. Fabricate could go get Spellskite if Skite is MD, too.
There are plenty of times I would have loved to get Threads. 3 CMC is something I'm confident I could get to, it's the UU that worries me.
Against aggro I find myself wanting counters but not so many as I usually get. I spend too much time building up my board and tapping out to counter. Maybe replace one or two counters with spellskites in addition to the stone?
Sorry that I am asking so many questions and providing few answers - I've yet to test more than a handful of matches. I'm going to play this in a few dailies over the weekend and should have more data to add to the conversation by then.