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  • posted a message on BUG Delirium
    Hi! I've been playing RUG Delirium for the past 3 months, and since I'm probably one of the people who has spent more time refining this type of deck, let me offer my input.

    As enablers go, Tarfire is by far the best one and what makes RUG good. Bauble is excellent too, ofc. I don't really like thought scour because it's very unreliable (sometimes you mill 2 types, sometimes 2 instants - there's no way of knowing) and makes the deck a bit unstable. Gitaxian Probe is less explosive but 100% surely puts a sorcery in the yard for free.

    Traverse can be a grindy card, but it is also brutal for setting up Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - I'll say it again, Erayo is probably the BIGGEST Traverse payoff since you can fetch it whenever you want to and flip it with some Baubles/Probes as early as T3. That is GG against most non-Decay decks.

    Since we don't have Tarfire in BUG, the next best thing is Architects of will, for 1 mana you put an artifact and creature in the yard and draw a card.

    IMO it's also important that Whispers can be useful a bit later in the game. T2 Hymn to Tourach is backbreaking, but 3 Vapor Snags help keep up the tempo-ish plan and Whispers can be used to discard the returned creatures, essentially also "killing" them and not only gaining tempo. It's useful to save your creatures or bounce Snaps too, ofc.

    With all this in mind, here's what I drafted. Looks pretty solid!:


    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    I think this set is the best set since the original Innistrad, the power level is through the roof.

    To be honest, the discussion here about Izzet's evaluations made me realize one thing.. in science (and other disciplines) we use something called P, which is basically the "chance that a finding is the product of luck". A P < 0.05 is usually the threshold of what's comsidered acceptable, which P < 0.01 even better, and so on (the lower the better).

    So, taking into account that in Modern the ceiling is brutally high and only around 3 or 4 cards from each set are deemed playable after a few months, if you say that absolutely eveything is unplayable, you have a really, really high chance of actually being partially right, if for example only 2 are playable. The problem is the P would be incredibly high, at it was mainly luck. It similar to homeopathy, it may work by chance in some occassions, but it's a complete fraud otherwise scientifically and technically

    Izzet's misses with things like Treasure Cruise, Dig, Kalitas, or Nahiri makes me think that his P is incredibly high, and thus he basically errs in almost every playable and is "right" with most of the unplayables, since everything is unplayable. So overall i think his evaluations are not much better than coin flipping just based on statistics. Just my 2 cents

    On the other hand, I'm extremely optimistic with my evaluations (the sins of a brewer), so here they come Wink


    Amazing, potentially archetype-creating cards

    Gnarlwood Dryad: perfect for the already good RUG Traverse, this could potentially push it to Tier 1
    Bedlam Reveler: amazing card as a 1 oe 2-of, i can see it played in RUG or even some Jund decks.
    Grim Flayer: could push BUG delirum to the top
    Whispers of Emrakul: together with Flayer
    Liliana: i think Liliana is great and it will see play in non-Jund archetypes where it has no business. It costs 3, it has decent loyalty, and good abilities like a better Jace +1
    Spell Queller: this card is busted in tempo Spirits and even in normal aggrocontrol decks with flash creatures
    Selfless Spirit: with Rattlechains and Queller this deck could be seriously good, you've good instant disruptio, resilient creatures and a whole lot of unpredictability, much like Faeries had.


    Maybe playable?

    Unsubstantiate: it's flexibility is astounding at it counters Decays and Verdicts, so it may push tempo high up
    Mausoleum Wanderer: to be honest this is an almost strictly-better Judge's Familiar, if I don't remember it bad, so it may actually be a thing in tempo spirits.
    Imprisoned in the Moon: a clean, simple answer in Blue for planeswalkers and giant dudes is not easy to come by, so it may see some play
    Eldrich Evolution: i see potential with Delve cards into things like Iona
    Noose Contrictor: is Wild Mongrel good enough after all this years to revive Madness? Who knows
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    Quote from Existenz »
    I'm really loving this set so far, so many interesting and Modern-playable cards! Good job WoTC!

    I'm working on a Temur Delver/Traverse build, would be interesting to hear if y'all think something like this could be viable.



    The Fury Charm might seem a little odd, but Relic of Progenitus totally wrecks this deck and I wanted a maindeck out to it. But giving Tarmogoyf or Gnarlwood Dryad +1/+1 and trample could also be very relevant.



    It's not a bad start, but Delver is not good with Bauble (even though you can theoretically set up draws with it, in my experience it's really terrible as it doesn't flip it) and the deck feels a little bit unfocused. For example, why 2 Tarfires? It's possibly the best Delirium enabler in Modern, and although I agree 4 can be a bit too much, 3 is fine. Also Fury Charm is not playable, even though Relic does wreck us. It's better to stock up on Revelries and Grudges post SB against Relics and RIPs

    This is what I've been playing (sans the Dryads and Reveler which will definitely be added) for the last 3 months:




    Fetching an Erayo and soft-locking them out whenever they're tapped out it's a really important angle that you should be aware of too, IMO


    Remands could become Unsubstantiate, since you can counter Decays, bounce huge dudes and even return your own Reveler to get another 3 cards
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    Wow, I just mentioned that Eldritch Moon was one of the best sets ever and they give us Wild Mongrel - Noose Constrictor


    I think Eldritch will fundamentally change Modern at a deep level, it's viable strategies, most powerful decks, general metagame... it's just amazing the amount of cards with an immense potential to build other archetypes that EM has.

    One of the best times to be a Modern player IMO.


    Time to start dusting off my Madness Wild Mongrel skills, although without Circular Logic it will certainly be a very different deck


    @Be labor: actually there is, I tested a few months back that 0 mana black madness spell which brings back black creatures from the yard. It wasn't very good really, but it is card advantage if you use it with other Madness enablers (not this one).
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    Jesus, this set is amazing. Seriously, best set ever since original Innistrad?? Laughing

    I'm orgasming right now with that Chaos Reveler... omggggg!!! Imagine a typical scenario against Jund where you've been trading resources and are top decking, but you obviously have quite a few serum visions, gitaxian probes and Bolts in the yard. Topdeck Traverse the Ulvenwald, pay RR, cast a 3/4 Prowess with an Ancestral Recall attached to it.

    I'll repeat, RR: Put a 3/4 token with Prowess, then cast Ancestral Recall

    Granted as a 4-of it's too much and it may be clunky on occasions, but as a tutorable target... damn





    Also, that spirit seems very legit in a Spirits deck with Rattlechains and Geist, it's a 3 mana counter spell attached to a body which can be protected with other spirits and brings the beats. Put it together with the indestructible spirit guy I could see spirits tempo become a thing Grin

    Friendly reminder, text that is huge and red is spam by our rules. ~Lantern
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    Quote from Lantern »
    So working on modern madness (which I actually finally got working with stromkirk... undervalued that card) Ive done a fair amount of online testing on cockatrice and ran into ALOT of Grim Flayer.

    The only time I saw it shine was a deck that made use of delirium... as in it went out of its way to activate it. Grim Flayer is probably the only good delirium card printed to date for modern (Traverse the Ulvenwald hasnt put up results because stuff like collected company is better.) Because its the only one that turns on itself.

    I didn't say it was a good card. If you are looking for beat stick... tarmogoyf is better. If you are looking to dredge, Satyr Wayfinder. I know that last one sounds like I'm pulling it outta my ass, but any dredge player will tell you its the best card to use in dredgevine.

    You need to be in a spot where you can make use of its dredging and beat sticking, which isnt dredge since they will beat stick with bloodghasts and vengevines better, and it isnt jund, because tarmo is just light years better. Itd have to be deathcloud or something... and even then tarmo might just be better.



    Traverse has nothing to do with Company, I feel like I'm repeating myself and this point Grin Company requires deck building restrictions like 28+ creatures to work, Traverse allows you to chain Snaps, get huge Goyfs when needed, easily flip Erayo, Soratami Ascendant (GG against many decks), or fetch a random Clique against Ad Nauseam. You can also play with only 12 creatures with Traverse, in fact I'd recommend that. Again, completely and utterly different cards that to completely different things.


    That being said, Flayer looks busted to me. Geez. I guess I'll be moving from RUG to BUG if this trend continues...



    Anyways, this deck seems very sweet to me:

    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Whispers of Emrakul - Delerium hymn to Tourach
    Quote from Gabriel Chase »
    Quote from volrathy »
    in standard

    turn 2 flippy jace
    turn 3 oath of jace
    turn 4 whispers of emrakul flash it back make them discard 4 cards seems good


    How are you flashing it back in Standard?



    A dude called Jace who has dominated Standard for months, maybe? Grin
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Grim Flayer - ManaDeprived.com
    Quote from Zinch »
    Quote from Danteh »
    Winmore card is winmore card.
    This card is nowhere near Tarmogoyf powerlevel. Seriously, we've had Delirium for a while now, it's impossible to consistently get, making this a 2/2 with upside, only if your opponent has an empty board, aka win more card, aka crap.


    It's completely possible to consistently get Deli, As I've said a million times with my Modern RUG Traverse deck. Shell is always 4 Mishra's Bauble, 4 Tarfire, 4 Gitaxian Probe, from there you can modify it. It's very easy to get a consistent T2-3 delirum. Now, with this being BG it's more difficult as you cannot play this AND Tarfire AND blue cantrips, but maybe something can be done


    You can choose BUG and play Architects of Will instead of Tarfire (wich, IMO, is not a good card). Architects are even playable if you have a winning position to prevent your opponent from drawing an answer.



    Trust me, Tarfire is one of the best cards in my deck. Keep in mind that I've been playing with my brew for 3 months now, I've done a lot of testing. It is good because of one simple reason, you can turn 1 fetch serum visions, t2 tarfire, kill confidant, get delirum and trav erse for a bomb. It's nuts.


    Although I admit, Architects is a great find that I had not thought about. I don't think it will be better than Tarfire, mainly because it does "nothing"; pay 1 mana cycle, but doesn't answer goblin guides, eidolons, confis, hatebear, etc. But I'll test it. thanks.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Grim Flayer - ManaDeprived.com
    Winmore card is winmore card.
    This card is nowhere near Tarmogoyf powerlevel. Seriously, we've had Delirium for a while now, it's impossible to consistently get, making this a 2/2 with upside, only if your opponent has an empty board, aka win more card, aka crap.


    It's completely possible to consistently get Deli, As I've said a million times with my Modern RUG Traverse deck. Shell is always 4 Mishra's Bauble, 4 Tarfire, 4 Gitaxian Probe, from there you can modify it. It's very easy to get a consistent T2-3 delirum. Now, with this being BG it's more difficult as you cannot play this AND Tarfire AND blue cantrips, but maybe something can be done
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    Quote from Lantern »
    Cryptbreaker Couldnt you just be a discard version of Carrion Feeder?. Jeez.

    It really seems that wizards are going out of their way to not make a good madness enabler to force standard to have to run a bunch of other stuff to get good pay off cards. Problem is the madness cards arent grand enough for modern to have to jump through hoops to enable them. Madness is a free enabler, and 1-2 0 or 1 away from being even worth mentioning over dredge.



    I think this zombie is pretty good actually, considering it's a zombified version of Heritage Druid which draws cards. The discard enabling Madness is the icing on the cake.

    I do think it needs a new shell, as it doesn't seem better than other options in Dredge, for example
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    It makes no sense to say if a Liliana is better than the other just because they share the same CC, they are for completely different shells. LoTV is only completely overpowered in attrition shells like Jund or Abzan, where it does absolutely everything you want. I've played with LotV in Esper and Grixis and it just doesn't cut it.

    This one protects herself as well as Vryn's Prodigy (which we all know how surprisingly difficult is to kill Jace once transformed), and provides some insane card advantage if you return Snapcasters or Pias. At 3 mana, it's Modern playable.

    I don't know if it will be a staple in a new kind of deck, because walkers are difficult to evaluate, but she's promising.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on MagicJudge Tumblr Spoiler - Nephalia Academy
    Quote from Nyzzeh »
    Combo deck staple in Modern.
    Would even main it in noncombo decks instead of things like ghost quarter if my jund MU was hurting.


    You are missing Pyromancer on you pic, lololol


    Solid card, no idea if it will be good or not but seems solid for Ad Nauseam and glass-cannons who autolose to Jund
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Shadows Over Innistrad in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    Yeah, I've doing so great in testing with deck that I might just do that. The problem is, as I've already said, that I'm really average playing. Brewing might make it for it maybe Laughing
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Eldritch Moon in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    I think Tamiyo could work in something like this:






    The deck has a tokens/dorks subtheme which are meant to instantly kill the opponent with Garruk's Overrun once Oath of Gideon is in play, obviously helping at the same time to ramp to the Planeswalkers. Tamiyo does seem absolutely nuts with all the tokens, and with Oath of Gideon it ultimates as fast as Nahiti, which can also be relevant.

    Would have to test to see if it's any good tho
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Shadows Over Innistrad in Modern - Spoiler Discussion
    Quote from izzetmage »
    Quote from Danteh »
    I feel like I don't really get you, sorry, you just always talk about data and stats and stuff, but do you actually test, or play? I mean, do you think Mono Blue Devotion in Standard was made by looking at already made decks and magically appeared? How do you think Chalice Eldrazi came to be? Don't you, for one second, imagine that decks are made by trying and playing games? I don't get this approach of just looking at websites, again, how can you know is something is good if nobody is even testing the deck? Do you think Pros just "pigeon chess" and are sometimes lucky?
    lmao. I've written various primers for this very site. Bob Huang, an actual competitive player, has said that my Ad Nauseam primer is one of the best he has ever read. What have you done? Laughing

    Why did people even regard mono-blue devotion as a good deck? Because players were putting up results with it. There are 8 pages of mono-blue Devotion decks on mtgtop8. I'm certainly not going to say that mono-blue devotion is unplayable after looking at that.

    I know something is good if it puts up results. Simple as that. How the deck came to be is irrelevant. I acknowledge that the hive mind can figure things out much better than a lone player like myself. I do all these card evaluations to challenge myself; to see how well my predictions line up with reality. Reality is Nahiri seeing play in 61 recorded decks on mtgtop8. Reality is Traverse seeing play in 8 recorded decks. Reality is 6 of those Traverse decks being Suicide Zoo, and Traverse being played as a 1-of SB card.

    I don't see the point of card evaluation if you're just going to declare that you win on every card that you picked before they are even released, by the metric of "if I can brew with it, it is a playable card". Any card can be brewed with, so any card is playable by that logic. That's totally useless.

    Pros do get things wrong. Kibler was extremely confident in Daybreak Ranger and bought something like 200 copies of the card. What happened after it turned out that Daybreak Ranger wasn't actually good? He didn't stick his fingers in his ears and claim victory because "it seemed good in my testing, so it's playable" - he took it like a man and admitted he was wrong. If you've lost, you tip your king over as an admission of that. You don't knock down all the other pieces and ***** on the board.



    The thing is, I know Traverse is good because I've tried it for 100+ hours... I've been wrong with many cards before, like anyone here, as some look really good on paper and turn out crap. If that happens, I'm just disappointed and move on. I'm not saying Traverse is theoretically good, I'm saying it because I've played with it for 3 months and I know how backbreaking it can be and how much card advantage it can generate.

    If you've done Primers, then you above all should know how much testing needs to be done to find you which card are good or not. I think the sir above me me hit the nail in the head (@terrifiktorcoal), as decks like Bloom were slow burners.. if you did the "check top 8" approach with Bloom, you would have said it was terrible, period. You can't deny that.

    About Mono-U devotion.. well obviously you can say that it's good now, as it was top tier for all that Standard. Was it in the top 8 website before the pro Tour? Nope. So, it wasn't good then? Why wasn't it good before the Pro Tour and suddenly it was after it? Hmmmmmm

    People usually only play what is popular, it's a chain reaction. But hey, Bloom picked up and was eventually even banned.

    PM: I've done quite many things, I've created Hooting Mandrils, a bit hilariously had to stop discussing TarmoTwin cause Ofelia send me a message that he was bringing it to the Pro tour (and the Dickmann added Oozes and top8'd!), made Goryo's Kiki along with quite a few more decks (I have hundreds of concepts scribbled, as I said), and have written some half-primers for decks, although they are not here yet published. As I've said, because of my work I don't have that much time, but writing is one of my favorite things in the world, and I'm planning to take time and do some of that. Wish days had 48 h! Grin
    Posted in: Modern
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