Is lowering the number of scions in the main a meta call, a play style call, or both? I seem to be playing a slightly "older" list with 3 scions in the main and no Vendilion. I have my own opinions of what scion does in a deck, but it would be nice to get some other commentary because I feel like I may be missing something subtle.
Thanks in advance.
It's a bit of both. Scion makes your deck more aggressive, and a lot of people want to go for a more control-oriented play style. Faeries can't really race the aggro decks right now, though, even with scion out, so against them I'd rather have a more controlling deck all day. Sower of Temptation is also simply fantastic against abzan decks right now, and since they're both high-cmc fae they fight for the same sideboard slots. You also pointed out in your post that they fight with Vendilion in the main, and the Clique has just proven it's worth time and again. It's better against Twin, control and any random combo decks, and provides a good beater to go in against abzan while the rogue tokens block (and gets a rhino out of their hand). Twin is a very big thing right now, so I feel like V-clique is much better positioned than scion (if they're fighting for the same slot).
All-in-all I think a one-of scion is still good, as it can blank abrupt decay and let you out-race lingering souls. The biggest problem with Scion is that it's three mana, which means it has to fight against V-clique, swords (doubly so, because of it's shroud), Liliana, and/or our higher cmc spells like mistbind, sower and batterskull. Running a bunch of Scions also makes it harder to want damnation, which I think is extremely powerful right now with so many decks having much stronger creatures than us.
What does your list look like Mindrotted?
I'm surprised you couldn't just run both clique and scion.
I've never liked Liliana in faeries and have been on and off with swords though, so that might be why I didn't struggle to fit both in.
I'm just coming back to this deck now after a sizeable hiatus so I'm pretty off with the current metagame and my list will need updating so I'm interested in what your list looks like.
Before I was running 2x scion and 2-3x clique and liked my scions a lot. 2 was about right for me.
Worth noting though that scions aren't just aggressive. They can just win you a game sometimes by doubling the damage output from bitterblossom, but they also give shroud and +1 toughness to your faeries at instant speed which can save you from blowouts and sometimes act as pseudo counterpells with even more value than spellstutters. Being able to protect BB from an abrupt decay, or a clique from an electrolyze while also anthem-ing is pretty sweet, they're more versatile than they're usually credited for.
Still, they are 1/1s for 3, and I haven't played for a while, so they might just not be suited to the meta.
Thanks for the fast replies! It's greatly appreciated. Here's my current list for reference:
I could very easily go down to 1 scion and get the 2 Vendilion into the main. I've had to take a couple weeks off of playing so now I'm trying to optimize my build for an open meta since I've got a few GPTs and PPTQs coming up. I just want to make sure that I understand the role each card plays while I'm making changes. Thanks for any feedback you can give.
I'm still waiting for the commons and uncommons. For me, the awesome part about the first MM was that your commons and uncommons could pay for the pack all by themselves, then if you got a playable rare all the better. As someone who wasn't living in a large city at the time with an LGS stocked with singles, getting access to good, but lower value stuff like helix, path and snare was a giant help.
so far we have lightning bolt and dismember (not exactly expensive ones but very important for modern). I hope to see serum visions, remand and so on.
I'm hoping for visions too. Just saw that we got remand! We are off to a good start.
Is lowering the number of scions in the main a meta call, a play style call, or both? I seem to be playing a slightly "older" list with 3 scions in the main and no Vendilion. I have my own opinions of what scion does in a deck, but it would be nice to get some other commentary because I feel like I may be missing something subtle.
I'm still waiting for the commons and uncommons. For me, the awesome part about the first MM was that your commons and uncommons could pay for the pack all by themselves, then if you got a playable rare all the better. As someone who wasn't living in a large city at the time with an LGS stocked with singles, getting access to good, but lower value stuff like helix, path and snare was a giant help.
If I put psionic blast in the deck, then I would replace cards like smother and see what happens.
Why not simply splash red for Lightning Bolt then? The average damage you take from fetches/shocks should be about the same and Lightning Bolt is the superior T1 play / Snapcaster Mage target. This also gives you access to more sideboad cards such as Firespout / Vandalblast .
I was thinking the same thing. I get that blast has the surprise factor going for it, and if you are trying to demoralize your opponent when they think they are safe at 4 i can't think of a better way to do it, but red for bolt opens up a lot more options. Terminate is a really big one with all our situational removal. I'm not advocating for the red splash, as I'm not convinced we need it. Either way, I'd be curios to hear about your experience with blast if you do test it.
Sure, but when you're playing blue sun's zenith instead of sphinx's revelation, Damnation instead of supreme verdict, and dismember instead of path to exile, you have to start asking yourself if you're just playing a worse version of a "bad" deck (esper) instead of a variant of a "good" deck (abzan midrange or jund). I don't disagree that BSZ fills that particular hole in the sultai strategy, but then you're literally trying to span the entire range of "TOTY-;goyf to the turn four wrath you, turn five play a walker with removal up, turn 6 start drawing cards gameplan. That feels like you're spread far too thinly to have the deck be consistent.
100% agree, honestly every list posted here fits a more Sultai Midrange theme.
I guess I don't understand, running goyf, tasigur, tombstalker etc in a "Control" deck. The thread title is completely off in my opinion and it makes @amalek0's comment extremely fitting.
You already play plenty of removal to control the board, I'd max out on Abrupt Decay and run atleast 2x Damnation. If you want to run a creature, restrict it to Vendilion Clique, Snapcaster Mage or something like Ætherling.
Also, has Empty the Pits been tested, I think it could work with the spells and fetchland count, I'd imagine Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth makes it easier to cast. Ten cards in the yard gives you 10 power to attack with on your turn; against what should be an empty board on the opponents side.
Not saying the lists posted here aren't viable, just don't think they are control.
I'm with you and everyone else who believes the "control" label is a bit of a misnomer. There is no reason people can't develop a true BUG control list, but the ones built in the Fabiano vein should be considered midrange.
If your meta is not infested with infect, Phyrexian Unlife isn't a terrible option in the SB. It causes burn to do 30+ damage to you and combo players like storm and twin have to kill you twice. I don't think I would recommend it for an open meta, but it works in certain scenarios.
Has anyone here had much experience playing against the WUR midrange/control decks? I thought the matchup seemed ok on paper, but struggled with it the couple times I've played against it. They play a long game that is probably even better than ours thanks to sphinx's rev. This could be a slanted opinion, so I thought I would ask.
@Metillon I can't believe I forgot about curse of death's hold! Especially since I've been loving it in my BUG midrange SB :p. That card is really good right now, and as you said, it has far more applications.
As an aside, is anyone else pumped about clique and BB in the new MM2015?! I sure am. Can't wait to get my playmat! Nice to see Fae getting some love. Hoping sower is in the set as well as I only have one at the moment.
That's something I've always struggled with. I've tried running disfigure and darkblast in the main, but they aren't great and they weaken our game ones against the midrange decks. It may sound silly, but mana tithe has been my favorite tech for those matchups, either countering something or forcing them to slow way down to get us to our mid-game plan. I still can't help feeling like there is something better though. Harm's way is another consideration, but it doesn't seem ideal. I could see the 4 scullers main in the list above as a way to be super disruptive early and have bodies to soak up damage.
I'd love to hear some other thoughts on it.
Still i'm not quite sure...dark blast remove just small things itself, except in the self-mill case, and even that only if we can draw something. Is unlikely remove something with Cos 3 or more. Meybe Zelous Persecution can be better, but how manys? 1x will be an invisible card for the rest of the game; 2x maybe?
I've considered to try Wrath in main...2 slots can be the deal but still i think that can be a danger with lingering, sorin's token, scullers etc etc.
Sadly Scullers are only 2-drop for this situation: bobs (i run arena honestly and i love it after several bob's test) aren't block material (we want keep them alive); Pack Rat on T2 it's almost always a waste of mana and resources (except a T1 discard who revealed an hand withdout removal...in that case can be a thing). Sculler it's the only body we can use for block...mmmh.
Damn aggros... =_=
This might sound crazy/difficult on our mana base, but has anyone tried Knight of Meadowgrain? It shuts down some aggro, forces infect to use pump spells before first strike damage and with all our removal, isn't a terrible attacker. Late game we have the luxury of pitching her to rat or Lili. It might be too cute, but wanted to throw it out there.
That's something I've always struggled with. I've tried running disfigure and darkblast in the main, but they aren't great and they weaken our game ones against the midrange decks. It may sound silly, but mana tithe has been my favorite tech for those matchups, either countering something or forcing them to slow way down to get us to our mid-game plan. I still can't help feeling like there is something better though. Harm's way is another consideration, but it doesn't seem ideal. I could see the 4 scullers main in the list above as a way to be super disruptive early and have bodies to soak up damage.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Scion of Oona
3 Mistbind Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells 23:
4 Bitterblossom
3 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Dismember
1 Murderous Cut
1 Go for the Throat
1 Smother
1 Batterskull
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Mutavault
4 Secluded Glen
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Pollted Delta
1 Watery Grave
4 Island
1 Swamp
2 Spellskite
2 Disfigure
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thoughtseize
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Shadow of Doubt
I could very easily go down to 1 scion and get the 2 Vendilion into the main. I've had to take a couple weeks off of playing so now I'm trying to optimize my build for an open meta since I've got a few GPTs and PPTQs coming up. I just want to make sure that I understand the role each card plays while I'm making changes. Thanks for any feedback you can give.
Thanks in advance.
As an aside, is anyone else pumped about clique and BB in the new MM2015?! I sure am. Can't wait to get my playmat! Nice to see Fae getting some love. Hoping sower is in the set as well as I only have one at the moment.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30502_Video-Sultai-In-Modern.html
I'd love to hear some other thoughts on it.