Are there any scenarios where opponent taking the Stag could spell death for you? (luckily no Shriekmaw effects in Legacy).
They usually take the Emmy the first time, then when I explain the combo, They always take the stag. It's real awesome when they blink one of my lands and I get to use deathrite shaman an extra time on their end step when I normally should be tapped out from casting dubious challenge. I haven't run into any problems with them taking the stag yet. Sometimes it can be their 7th permanent and they get to keep something when annihilator triggers, but most of the time its not too serious.
Updated the changes section.
Lost horribly this week, 1-2-1.
Round 1 Got paired against homebrew psyachatog madness (the card ability, not just psychatog crazyness). I took game 1 pretty easily. He invasive surgery'd for my dubious challenge and pretty much ended the game 2. Game 3 He surgery'd me again and I was just trying to ramp to 15 to hardcast emrakul. Was at 13 mana with 1 ESG in my hand when our turns ran out.
1-1-1 0-0-1
Round 2 Paired against ANT. I took game 1. When he figured out what I was doing, he saved all the counterspells for dubious challenge, then just stormed me out. game 3 i just got stormed out, got to silence him at one point, that was fun.
1-2 0-1-1
Round 3 Burn. Yay. Warmth saved me game 2. He got 1 and 3 no problem.
1-2 0-2-1
Round 4 BYEEEEEEE
2-0 1-2-1
Not a Great night, working some kinks out still. Tops Stay!
Couple Fridays ago I played Dubious Challenge to a 3-1 victory making top 4 at my local fnm. Beating imperial painter, pox, and reanimator. Lost to burn. This is my starting list with card explanations and changes below.
Card Choices: Deathrite Shaman: A real workhorse. Gets in incremental damage when all the pieces aren't available yet. Gains you life and at the same time exiles reanimator targets. Need a 4th mana to challenge? He's your guy.
Elvish Spirit Guide: Originally played 4 to help with mana acceleration. I realized I only needed it to get that 4th mana after casting congregation at dawn. Cut to 2.
Glimmerpoint Stag: You can play this or Flickerwisp or any creature that blinks a creature in this slot. I chose stag because of his .50 price tag.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn : The boss of the sauce. You can really play this deck any wacky way you want with any wacky big creature. This chick is just the meanest.
Abrupt Decay: One of the best removal spells ever printed. Pretty much takes care of anything in our way.
Swords to Plowshares: Great creature removal, stops threats from killing you. You wouldn't want to die before you windmill slam Emmy on the table, would you?
Congregation At Dawn: I was looking hard for something to set up my library the way I needed it to, this was the answer. Your best 3 to grab for me so far has been ESG on top then a stag and Emmy underneath. You always want to try to play this on their end step, that way you draw an ESG. You can then remove it for that crucial 4th mana for your Dubious Challenge.
Dubious Challenge: Best $1 junk bin rare ever printed. You need 4 to make this work.
Painful Truths: I wasn't sure what to put here. I knew i needed some sort of card draw/dig to get to my combo pieces. This seemed the best choice in my colors.
Pernicious Deed: Board sweeper, Tribal Killer, takes care of pretty much anything you need to take care of. Popping this to blow up 3 The Rack and 2 Shrieking afflictions has been my favorite so far.
Liliana of the Veil: She puts in a ton of work, she pitches Emrakul when you draw it (oops!). Ive never needed to ultimate her, her discard and creature sac is enough for me.
Thoughtseize: We hate blue! Force of will will ruin our day once they stop laughing at dubious challenge and figure out what we are doing.
Lands: Must haves, 23 is the magic number I think. Any combo of g/w/b will do, you always want more Green and Black, don't neglect white or you'll never cast Congregation at Dawn.
Side Board: This is meta dependent. My meta is mostly wacky brews and budget decks with the occasional 3 or 4 serious magic players thrown in. Make this whatever you need to survive.
All in all this deck was a lot of fun and also very frustrating. There were a lot of times where I knew I was dead and this deck just pulled it all back from the brink! Blind Challenges are the most nerve wracking thing ever. Did it twice at FNM and came out with both an emrakul and a stag both times, I do not recommend the blind challenge.
Know your opponents deck and what the biggest threat is going to be, you have a lot of removal at your disposal save it for when you need it and don't be afraid to pop that deed for only a few things, it could save your life!
After playing it for one week I feel OK with the list. Minor tweaks here and there to come.
This week:
-2 Painful Truths
+2 Sensei's Divining Top
It's dig that wont hurt me. Will it be better? I'll have to find out.
There's so many ways you can play this deck. Give this a try, tell me what you think! By no means is this a Tier 1 deck to bring to a large event. But you'll get a good laugh out of it at your local FNM/ Legacy Tournament!
Rather than put up a new thread ill just show you guys what my liliana is rolling with. I'm running more of a pox/control theme. The dark ritual and blood pet are there to play a liliana turn two and have a sac outlet to play something else along with it. Most of the creatures recur for bonus effect, the Unearth is a flex slot and can be changed and the damnable pact is there to either fill my hand, or to fill theirs to make them discard it all with a dark deal. Drown in sorrow deals with alot of the threats while saving liliana and making her flip. Diabolic intent helps me find either the bitterblossom or the contamination depending on which one isnt in my hand. Im enjoying her alot so far. This is a rough draft that needs some tuning but I like where its heading. Maybe it'll give you some ideas too.
Thanks for the Response!
I'll give the Vampire a try. The only reason its Nantuko Husk is because its another zombie to help trigger Gravecrawler. But it's worth a try, the 2 mana cost does help him come down and deal a little damage earlier.
Ball Lightning was just a wild idea that I thought would be fun to recur every turn. I'll be playing this in a tournament this coming week. I have a feeling he might be the first thing to go.
Fume Spitter might have to become something else, I forgot it was a sac trigger and not a "When this dude dies" trigger. Festering Goblin or Mudbutton Torchrunner come to mind. The ol' spitters not that great when there's a Melira staring back at you anyways.
Pack Rat i'm not sold on kicking to the curb just yet. He's pretty good when you have a squee in your hand, and can get big in a pinch. I'll give him a go for now see what happens.
I completely forgot about bloodsoaked champion when I put this together. He may have to squeeze his way in.
Rakdos Cackler might become one of the 3 recurring guys you suggested, I just wanted a solid beater but he doesn't really DO anything. This could just be the Champs home.
The altar and deathmantle I'm going to try to squeeze in on the board. It'll be fun to throw it in when I need a simple combo to get around something.
I do have more fetches I can throw in and see what happens, cant hurt!
Please do steal it! I've been sitting on that little combo for a while now. Played it in a casual kitchen table deck for a while with swarmyard. More than just the rat too! Messenger does some damage with it, Merciless Executioner, There's all kinds of fun trigger you can play every turn. Chittering Rats is just the most annoying.
After giving Tymaret the old college try in Standard and failing and trying him in EDH and him just not not cutting it (at least for me). I had to give one of my favorite Legendary creatures one more chance. Tiny leaders is the best spot for this guy. being able to recur him from the yard is great, him being a pseudo Goblin bombardment with legs is even better. Tortured existence is the icing on the cake and really brings the whole thing together. With creatures like Gravecrawler, bloodghast, and everyone's favorite goblin overlord Squee, goblin nabob already showing their worth in other places it's only fair they come together to help ole Tym out. Discarding things like Big game hunter for that nice removal surprise against Anafenza is great. Squee and Geralf's Messenger are a Dirty pair with tortured existence. Sacrificing Messenger to Goblin bombardment makes it a bolt at least twice a turn. How about Recurring a ball lightning every turn? We got that too.
My Favorite has to be Aether Vial + Chittering Rats + Skull Collector. Cranking that Vial to 3 and returning the chittering rats to only vial it in before their draw step is a sweet soft lock. Liliana of the veil in all of her $100 glory empties the opponents hand while you just discard a squee every turn or something else that you can just recur up later when you need it. Obviously Blood Artist is playing a huge role here but will often take a burn/removal spell to the face immediately. THATS OK! Who Needs him?! We can bring him back! there's a lot going on here that I like a whole lot. Big purchases that need to be made are a wasteland to pair of with that slimy Fulminator Mage and a Badlands to add some more mana smoothing. Trying to find room for a ashnod's altar and Nim deathmantle for geralf's messenger shenanigans, but as it sits right now I like this deck alot. Questions! Comments! Criticisms! I'll take 'em all! Let me know if I missed something!
As of right now the sideboard is a work in progress. it currently has
Sudden Demise
Trinisphere
Oblivion Stone
Red Elemental Blast
It needs a Pithing Needle and another 5 cards. The Sudden Demise i feel should replace the Furnace Celebration in the Main. I use the Ashling as another board wipe, it works well against tokens. The molten psyche while amusing sometimes, can just be a dead card most of the time and can probably replaces with Wheel of fortune. When im holding molten psyche in my hand and nothing else it does nothing for me, at least then the wheel can draw me a new seven.
Going into this I thought I had a good thing going. The creatures either recur something or are a threat that need to be dealt with. The artifact package all have their own role, the wellsprings and map for deck thinning, crucible for locking, Crawlspace and tangle Wire to gum things up and stall the board. Hammer and Shrine for a kill. Only problem is this is very slow. Super fast aggressive decks smack me around before I can do anything. And slower Grindy decks like Umezawa mono black control just ruin all my plans before I can get them off the ground. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
I think Mana Web and Winter Orb together would frustrate people beyond belief. I'm working on a new list as I took a side road and built slobad instead. I plan on playing orim's chant or a silence with my isochron scepter to really make the tears flow faster.
I guess you're right about Tangle Wire. It's ALOT better with a way to recur it. Propaganda can really hold back attacks early game but I feel like with enough mana to get a couple big creatures through Caltrops will stop them dead.
So I threw this together last night just to play at my local shops Game Day. Come to find out, there's a few things wrong that I could use some opinions to help fix. I realize there's better decks to play and I do have the means to get almost anything I would need but the shop I play at pretty much everyone plays janky home brews for fun and we take our modern and legacy more seriously. Here's the list, it's my first time posting, be gentle.
Ok, so 21 land with 8 mana dorks i thought was the magic number. The problem with it seemed to be I had more black when i really wanted white and Vice Versa, obviously 4 Godless Shrine can help that out (-2 Guildgate -1 swamp -1 plains). Is 21 land even enough? I seemed to be missing a few land drops here and there.
I've been thinking about removing the 4 Deathrite Shaman or even reducing the number for a few farseeks and maybe another Scavenging Ooze. Also which would be better main board? Thalia or Imposing Sovereign? The 4 Duress need to come out, for what? No idea. The Gaze of Granite was for tokens and should probably be moved to SB. Any help would be appreciated and any card explanations you need just ask! Thanks for any help you're going to give!
They usually take the Emmy the first time, then when I explain the combo, They always take the stag. It's real awesome when they blink one of my lands and I get to use deathrite shaman an extra time on their end step when I normally should be tapped out from casting dubious challenge. I haven't run into any problems with them taking the stag yet. Sometimes it can be their 7th permanent and they get to keep something when annihilator triggers, but most of the time its not too serious.
Updated the changes section.
Lost horribly this week, 1-2-1.
Round 1 Got paired against homebrew psyachatog madness (the card ability, not just psychatog crazyness). I took game 1 pretty easily. He invasive surgery'd for my dubious challenge and pretty much ended the game 2. Game 3 He surgery'd me again and I was just trying to ramp to 15 to hardcast emrakul. Was at 13 mana with 1 ESG in my hand when our turns ran out.
1-1-1 0-0-1
Round 2 Paired against ANT. I took game 1. When he figured out what I was doing, he saved all the counterspells for dubious challenge, then just stormed me out. game 3 i just got stormed out, got to silence him at one point, that was fun.
1-2 0-1-1
Round 3 Burn. Yay. Warmth saved me game 2. He got 1 and 3 no problem.
1-2 0-2-1
Round 4 BYEEEEEEE
2-0 1-2-1
Not a Great night, working some kinks out still. Tops Stay!
Card Choices:
Deathrite Shaman: A real workhorse. Gets in incremental damage when all the pieces aren't available yet. Gains you life and at the same time exiles reanimator targets. Need a 4th mana to challenge? He's your guy.
Elvish Spirit Guide: Originally played 4 to help with mana acceleration. I realized I only needed it to get that 4th mana after casting congregation at dawn. Cut to 2.
Glimmerpoint Stag: You can play this or Flickerwisp or any creature that blinks a creature in this slot. I chose stag because of his .50 price tag.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn : The boss of the sauce. You can really play this deck any wacky way you want with any wacky big creature. This chick is just the meanest.
Abrupt Decay: One of the best removal spells ever printed. Pretty much takes care of anything in our way.
Swords to Plowshares: Great creature removal, stops threats from killing you. You wouldn't want to die before you windmill slam Emmy on the table, would you?
Congregation At Dawn: I was looking hard for something to set up my library the way I needed it to, this was the answer. Your best 3 to grab for me so far has been ESG on top then a stag and Emmy underneath. You always want to try to play this on their end step, that way you draw an ESG. You can then remove it for that crucial 4th mana for your Dubious Challenge.
Dubious Challenge: Best $1 junk bin rare ever printed. You need 4 to make this work.
Painful Truths: I wasn't sure what to put here. I knew i needed some sort of card draw/dig to get to my combo pieces. This seemed the best choice in my colors.
Pernicious Deed: Board sweeper, Tribal Killer, takes care of pretty much anything you need to take care of. Popping this to blow up 3 The Rack and 2 Shrieking afflictions has been my favorite so far.
Liliana of the Veil: She puts in a ton of work, she pitches Emrakul when you draw it (oops!). Ive never needed to ultimate her, her discard and creature sac is enough for me.
Thoughtseize: We hate blue! Force of will will ruin our day once they stop laughing at dubious challenge and figure out what we are doing.
Lands: Must haves, 23 is the magic number I think. Any combo of g/w/b will do, you always want more Green and Black, don't neglect white or you'll never cast Congregation at Dawn.
Side Board: This is meta dependent. My meta is mostly wacky brews and budget decks with the occasional 3 or 4 serious magic players thrown in. Make this whatever you need to survive.
All in all this deck was a lot of fun and also very frustrating. There were a lot of times where I knew I was dead and this deck just pulled it all back from the brink! Blind Challenges are the most nerve wracking thing ever. Did it twice at FNM and came out with both an emrakul and a stag both times, I do not recommend the blind challenge.
Know your opponents deck and what the biggest threat is going to be, you have a lot of removal at your disposal save it for when you need it and don't be afraid to pop that deed for only a few things, it could save your life!
After playing it for one week I feel OK with the list. Minor tweaks here and there to come.
This week:
-2 Painful Truths
+2 Sensei's Divining Top
It's dig that wont hurt me. Will it be better? I'll have to find out.
There's so many ways you can play this deck. Give this a try, tell me what you think! By no means is this a Tier 1 deck to bring to a large event. But you'll get a good laugh out of it at your local FNM/ Legacy Tournament!
1 Blood pet
1 carrion feeder
1 fume spitter
1 viscera seer
1 bloodsoaked champion
1 gravecrawler
1 bloodghast
1 pack rat
1 dark confidant
1 blood artist
1 crypt rats
1 geralf's messenger
1 merciless executioner
1 fleshbag marauder
1 innocent blood
1 unearth
1 sign in blood
1 bitterblossom
1 waste not
1 hymn to tourach
1 smother
1 smallpox
1 diabolic intent
1 damnable pact
1 liliana of the veil
1 dark deal
1 contamination
1 pox
1 phyrexian arena
1 drown in sorrow
1 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire
1 phyrexian tower
1 bojuka bog
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
Rather than put up a new thread ill just show you guys what my liliana is rolling with. I'm running more of a pox/control theme. The dark ritual and blood pet are there to play a liliana turn two and have a sac outlet to play something else along with it. Most of the creatures recur for bonus effect, the Unearth is a flex slot and can be changed and the damnable pact is there to either fill my hand, or to fill theirs to make them discard it all with a dark deal. Drown in sorrow deals with alot of the threats while saving liliana and making her flip. Diabolic intent helps me find either the bitterblossom or the contamination depending on which one isnt in my hand. Im enjoying her alot so far. This is a rough draft that needs some tuning but I like where its heading. Maybe it'll give you some ideas too.
I'll give the Vampire a try. The only reason its Nantuko Husk is because its another zombie to help trigger Gravecrawler. But it's worth a try, the 2 mana cost does help him come down and deal a little damage earlier.
Ball Lightning was just a wild idea that I thought would be fun to recur every turn. I'll be playing this in a tournament this coming week. I have a feeling he might be the first thing to go.
Fume Spitter might have to become something else, I forgot it was a sac trigger and not a "When this dude dies" trigger. Festering Goblin or Mudbutton Torchrunner come to mind. The ol' spitters not that great when there's a Melira staring back at you anyways.
Pack Rat i'm not sold on kicking to the curb just yet. He's pretty good when you have a squee in your hand, and can get big in a pinch. I'll give him a go for now see what happens.
I completely forgot about bloodsoaked champion when I put this together. He may have to squeeze his way in.
Rakdos Cackler might become one of the 3 recurring guys you suggested, I just wanted a solid beater but he doesn't really DO anything. This could just be the Champs home.
The altar and deathmantle I'm going to try to squeeze in on the board. It'll be fun to throw it in when I need a simple combo to get around something.
I do have more fetches I can throw in and see what happens, cant hurt!
Please do steal it! I've been sitting on that little combo for a while now. Played it in a casual kitchen table deck for a while with swarmyard. More than just the rat too! Messenger does some damage with it, Merciless Executioner, There's all kinds of fun trigger you can play every turn. Chittering Rats is just the most annoying.
1 Rakdos Cackler
1 Fume spitter
1 gravecrawler
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Stingscourger
1 ravenous rats
1 pack rat
1 mogg war marshall
1 bloodghast
1 blood artist
1 squee, goblin nabob
1 chittering rats
1 geralf's messenger
1 skull collector
1 ball lightning
1 nantuko husk
1 big game hunter
1 fulminator mage
1 merciless executioner
1 aether vial
1 lightning bolt
1 tortured existence
1 unearth
1 rakdos charm
1 terminate
1 goblin bombardment
1 sign in blood
1 dark deal
1 liliana of the veil
1 drown in sorrow
1 kolaghan's command
1 bloodstained mire
1 lavaclaw reaches
1 blood crypt
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 dragonskull summit
1 ghost quarter
1 bojuka bog
1 temple of malice
1 graven cairns
5 swamp
3 mountain
After giving Tymaret the old college try in Standard and failing and trying him in EDH and him just not not cutting it (at least for me). I had to give one of my favorite Legendary creatures one more chance. Tiny leaders is the best spot for this guy. being able to recur him from the yard is great, him being a pseudo Goblin bombardment with legs is even better. Tortured existence is the icing on the cake and really brings the whole thing together. With creatures like Gravecrawler, bloodghast, and everyone's favorite goblin overlord Squee, goblin nabob already showing their worth in other places it's only fair they come together to help ole Tym out. Discarding things like Big game hunter for that nice removal surprise against Anafenza is great. Squee and Geralf's Messenger are a Dirty pair with tortured existence. Sacrificing Messenger to Goblin bombardment makes it a bolt at least twice a turn. How about Recurring a ball lightning every turn? We got that too.
My Favorite has to be Aether Vial + Chittering Rats + Skull Collector. Cranking that Vial to 3 and returning the chittering rats to only vial it in before their draw step is a sweet soft lock. Liliana of the veil in all of her $100 glory empties the opponents hand while you just discard a squee every turn or something else that you can just recur up later when you need it. Obviously Blood Artist is playing a huge role here but will often take a burn/removal spell to the face immediately. THATS OK! Who Needs him?! We can bring him back! there's a lot going on here that I like a whole lot. Big purchases that need to be made are a wasteland to pair of with that slimy Fulminator Mage and a Badlands to add some more mana smoothing. Trying to find room for a ashnod's altar and Nim deathmantle for geralf's messenger shenanigans, but as it sits right now I like this deck alot. Questions! Comments! Criticisms! I'll take 'em all! Let me know if I missed something!
Sudden Demise
Trinisphere
Oblivion Stone
Red Elemental Blast
It needs a Pithing Needle and another 5 cards. The Sudden Demise i feel should replace the Furnace Celebration in the Main. I use the Ashling as another board wipe, it works well against tokens. The molten psyche while amusing sometimes, can just be a dead card most of the time and can probably replaces with Wheel of fortune. When im holding molten psyche in my hand and nothing else it does nothing for me, at least then the wheel can draw me a new seven.
Creatures
1 Arcbound Ravager
1 Atog
1 Goblin Welder
1 Etched Champion
1 Junk Diver
1 Myr Retriever
1 Perilous Myr
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
Spells
1 Chaos Warp
1 Galvanic Blast
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Starstorm
1 Gamble
1 Molten Psyche
1 Slagstorm
1 Whipflare
1 Furnace Celebration
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Expedition Map
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Shrine of Burning Rage
1 Tangle Wire
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Fire Diamond
1 Crawlspace
10 Mountain
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Buried Ruin
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Great Furnace
Going into this I thought I had a good thing going. The creatures either recur something or are a threat that need to be dealt with. The artifact package all have their own role, the wellsprings and map for deck thinning, crucible for locking, Crawlspace and tangle Wire to gum things up and stall the board. Hammer and Shrine for a kill. Only problem is this is very slow. Super fast aggressive decks smack me around before I can do anything. And slower Grindy decks like Umezawa mono black control just ruin all my plans before I can get them off the ground. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
4 Arbor Elf
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Acidic Slime
2 Archangel of Thune
3 Elvish Mystic
2 Doom Blade
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Advent of the Wurm
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Godless Shrine
4 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
Hows that look?
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Acidic Slime
4 Duress
2 Doom Blade
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Gaze of Granite
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Orzhov Guildgate
4 Forest
3 Swamp
3 Plains
Ok, so 21 land with 8 mana dorks i thought was the magic number. The problem with it seemed to be I had more black when i really wanted white and Vice Versa, obviously 4 Godless Shrine can help that out (-2 Guildgate -1 swamp -1 plains). Is 21 land even enough? I seemed to be missing a few land drops here and there.
I've been thinking about removing the 4 Deathrite Shaman or even reducing the number for a few farseeks and maybe another Scavenging Ooze. Also which would be better main board? Thalia or Imposing Sovereign? The 4 Duress need to come out, for what? No idea. The Gaze of Granite was for tokens and should probably be moved to SB. Any help would be appreciated and any card explanations you need just ask! Thanks for any help you're going to give!