It just seems to me that you'll lose so much of your hand if you play Azusa and not be able to replenish it. It seems to me that Summer Bloom is a combo piece, while the land drops should just be ramp to get there, so I would think that Explores would be better. Azusa ramps, but also requires you to have those lands in hand and does nothing after. I can't imagine she can do more after dropping an additional 2 lands, since that'd empty your hand... Am I thinking of this deck incorrectly? What does Azusa normally do in a game?
I suppose the bigger problem is that I don't see what happens in a normal game. All I read in this thread are descriptions of the T2 kill/Primeval Titan swings, which I doubt are very common. I haven't found any videos or anything.
What would common turns 1-4 look like?
Azusa's role is that it's a worse summer bloom, but it's tutoreable with the pact. Therefore, its necessary. And trust me, most of the time, if your hand is full, it's full of lands. If you draw an azusa, it will have something to do.
Also think that the deck more often than not uses resources straight from the library. The hand is relevant just during the early game
Normal would be something like
T1: Amulet if you have it, Serum visions/stirrings/sakura if you do not, ETB tapped land if you have neither (preferrably a land that gets you value like a scry land, a khalni garden)
T2: If you played an amulet, play either azusa or land (keep the karoos yet) unless you can go for the kill. if you know the matchup and have a tolaria west in hand, you can go for a hate card as well (cavern against control, explosive against jund or a pact if you need a creature) If you do not played an amulet and can do something to look for it, do it. otherwise, land, go.
T3: Start karooing lands for value if you dont have an amulet and start doing broken things if you have.
I've been looking for a fun deck lately, and this seems like it could be a good candidate. It seems like the creature base has a lot of variation in it. Some run Oracles, Azusas, neither, and some run some amount of Explores and Ancient Stirrings. I've gone through the thread, but there hasn't been any real discussion on a lot of these options besides "This is my deck and it works!" I'm wondering what people think of these before I go ahead and get the pieces for this deck together.
Oracle, Azusa, Explore all do one thing in common which is quintessential to the existence of the deck: be able to play more that one land per turn. Summer bloom is by far the best way which is why is a MUST. Azusa also stars on most lists, but then running oracle or explore is for redundancy. Some people preffer to have just the normal trick and make it as consistent as possible (playing 3 hive minds, oracle) while others prefer to have more versatility (trinket mages, garruk, gifts). It all reduce to preference and style. The same is with Stirrings vs Serum Visions vs Trinket mage.
Notes: Chalice of the Void: Against Living End on 0, Twin on 3 and Jund on 2, it's 3/4 of a G1 win. Trinket Mage: Nothing to add here. Temple of Mystery: I hate them, but they just sort of work. Stirring Wildwood: Most of the times i fetched for inkmoth it was actually to have a flying blocker against an opponent's inkmoth. Im trying this because it fixes mana and three mana it's not that difficult to pay. Also bolt proof.
Also, there were two copies of the deck on this' week Modern Premier event. Link here (2nd and 5th places)
Has Hive Mind turned into plan B for the deck? If so, how has it been working?
Does 7 Pacts justify it as a way to win?
Im just starting to build and test the deck, but so far the answer is yes. Up to a point, it can be as fast as the titan path and even your plan A in some matchups (Living End, RG tron, tokens)
Your seven (or six with a summoner's pact): Rainbow land, karoo land, vigor, hive mind, summer bloom, random pact is a t2 win that can't be disrupted by removal (T1 land, amulet. T2, karoo bounce itself, bloom, play and bounce three times making 6, play hive mind, play pact, GG). Same path as t2 titan but more difficult to disrupt. Also, once it's in play, it disrupts many of the games rules. Counters are useless, removal becomes painful for them and so on.
Several lists of this deck have ranked in the dailies this week. Im gonna post them now. This deck needs its thread to be revitalized.
Also, TCGPlayer featured the deck in an article a couple of days ago here (scroll to the bottom)
True, i just snapped the alternatives out of my head. Still though, i think if i had to choose between anger and jund charm, i'll keep the charms.
EDIT: I just came back from a tournament. Went 3-2 where weird hands were the norm for me. Tested a lone Hammer of Purphoros in the sideboard and it appeared against UW control. early conclusion: it's a nice, effective plan B
Sadly, the prospects of Theros are slim. If someone can make a go of it, I am interested.
Pretty sure the only useable cards in that set are Anger of the Gods as a sweeper and Hero's Downfall as Planeswalker and Creature spot removal.
For the former there are already alternatives in Jund Charm and Slagstorm and Volcanic Fallout and for the latter there is Maelstrom Pulse (its more than worth considering it though)
What are people thoughts on Hammer of Purphoros in this deck? The fervor effect is nice but the turn lands into 3/3 creatures if we're hit by graveyard hate or give an alt wincon against control? Can it be worth a slot as a one-off?
I'd like to add onto this. My build is 19 lands with zero SSGs and zero Forbidden Orchards. And that's with a playset of Pale Recluse for landcycling. Once in a great while my lands will let me down, but for the most part I just lose because I can't draw a cascade spell.
This is what I run specifically. Yes, I am greedy. The Wolf Run should probably be another shockland.
Then im greedier because my manabase is exactly like yours minus fetches (-4 fetches -1 godless +1 temple + 1 copperline +1 blackcleave +1 forest +1 swamp). Very rarely i run into mana problems.
* Selesnya Charm acts as a pseudo fog against aggro (killing an early pesky creature with the token can prevent enough damage in the long run to warrant fog status), or as removal for fatties and the gods.
* I honestly like the build running loads of lands + into the wilds.
* Heroes' Reunion is another pseudo fog to deal agains RDW. It also allows to fog when there is no pressure on the board (against, say midrange) and utilize our mana more efficiently
* Renounce the guilds and Warleader's Helix are there as my meta will probably be filled with Smiters and domris
* I run three sweepers md (verdict + 2 cyclonic rifts) and gaze of granite on the board. This number may vary
I like what Gobs have to offer and think they are ripe for a an artifact shell. This deck is in its infancy stage as it has not been play tested before, but the Gob cards have been ordered. The deck is supposed to explode onto the field turn 1 establishing support. Turn 2-3 creatures hack life off the opponent and switch to burn spells turn 4-5 as the deck runs out of steam (creature are dead or are no longer a threat). If you like the blend please take it for a spin as it will be a while before I get to field it since another deck of mine needs a field run.
That deck is a deck i've been playing for sometime. Basically Kuldotha Red from the early Zendikar-Scars standard with the addition of Goblin Grenades. A few things of note:
Contested War Zone is INSANE on this deck.
Goblin Wardriver would be the flex slot. It always felt too slow to me. Either goblin chieftains mogg war marshalls or more artifacts (Panic spellbomb is great here)
The plan basically consists on stalling early threats with pacifism, obedience and angelic wall, playing a Gideon that gets huge or a Helliod and take over the game. Quite straight forward (in theory at least). In practice there are things like creatures with hexproof and Stormbreath Hellkite, but either a Sphere of Safety or Celestial Flare can stop them. Also, i think this deck might be a good place for the m14 Ajani's Chosen guy that put tokens and Elspeth. Bestow creature are for curve early and pump Archon, gideon or Helliod tokens late (and leave us a guy). The lantern is for acceleration, but they can probably be cut. Also there is half a set yet to be revealed, so there might be (or not) plenty of stuff for this thing to work.
Azusa's role is that it's a worse summer bloom, but it's tutoreable with the pact. Therefore, its necessary. And trust me, most of the time, if your hand is full, it's full of lands. If you draw an azusa, it will have something to do.
Also think that the deck more often than not uses resources straight from the library. The hand is relevant just during the early game
Normal would be something like
T1: Amulet if you have it, Serum visions/stirrings/sakura if you do not, ETB tapped land if you have neither (preferrably a land that gets you value like a scry land, a khalni garden)
T2: If you played an amulet, play either azusa or land (keep the karoos yet) unless you can go for the kill. if you know the matchup and have a tolaria west in hand, you can go for a hate card as well (cavern against control, explosive against jund or a pact if you need a creature) If you do not played an amulet and can do something to look for it, do it. otherwise, land, go.
T3: Start karooing lands for value if you dont have an amulet and start doing broken things if you have.
Oracle, Azusa, Explore all do one thing in common which is quintessential to the existence of the deck: be able to play more that one land per turn. Summer bloom is by far the best way which is why is a MUST. Azusa also stars on most lists, but then running oracle or explore is for redundancy. Some people preffer to have just the normal trick and make it as consistent as possible (playing 3 hive minds, oracle) while others prefer to have more versatility (trinket mages, garruk, gifts). It all reduce to preference and style. The same is with Stirrings vs Serum Visions vs Trinket mage.
This is the list im currently testing
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gruul Turf
1 Kabira Crossroads
1 Khalni Garden
3 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3 Tendo Ice Bridge
2 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4 Primeval Titan
4 Amulet of Vigor
2 Hive Mind
2 Pact of Negation
4 Serum Visions
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Summer Bloom
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Island
1 Forest
Notes: Chalice of the Void: Against Living End on 0, Twin on 3 and Jund on 2, it's 3/4 of a G1 win.
Trinket Mage: Nothing to add here.
Temple of Mystery: I hate them, but they just sort of work.
Stirring Wildwood: Most of the times i fetched for inkmoth it was actually to have a flying blocker against an opponent's inkmoth. Im trying this because it fixes mana and three mana it's not that difficult to pay. Also bolt proof.
Also, there were two copies of the deck on this' week Modern Premier event. Link here (2nd and 5th places)
Im just starting to build and test the deck, but so far the answer is yes. Up to a point, it can be as fast as the titan path and even your plan A in some matchups (Living End, RG tron, tokens)
Your seven (or six with a summoner's pact): Rainbow land, karoo land, vigor, hive mind, summer bloom, random pact is a t2 win that can't be disrupted by removal (T1 land, amulet. T2, karoo bounce itself, bloom, play and bounce three times making 6, play hive mind, play pact, GG). Same path as t2 titan but more difficult to disrupt. Also, once it's in play, it disrupts many of the games rules. Counters are useless, removal becomes painful for them and so on.
Also, TCGPlayer featured the deck in an article a couple of days ago here (scroll to the bottom)
Lands
1 Boros Garrison
4 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3 Tendo Ice Bridge
2 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
Stuff
4 Amulet of Vigor
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
3 Hive Mind
2 Pact of Negation
4 Serum Visions
4 Summer Bloom
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Telling Time
1 Intervention Pact
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Nature's Claim
1 Pact of Negation
3 Remand
3 Slaughter Pact
Lands
1 Boros Garrison
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gruul Turf
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Kabira Crossroads
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Khalni Garden
4 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3 Tendo Ice Bridge
2 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
Stuff
4 Amulet of Vigor
2 Compulsive Research
2 Hive Mind
2 Pact of Negation
4 Serum Visions
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Summer Bloom
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Acidic Slime
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ethereal Usher
1 Fabricate
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
EDIT: I just came back from a tournament. Went 3-2 where weird hands were the norm for me. Tested a lone Hammer of Purphoros in the sideboard and it appeared against UW control. early conclusion: it's a nice, effective plan B
For the former there are already alternatives in Jund Charm and Slagstorm and Volcanic Fallout and for the latter there is Maelstrom Pulse (its more than worth considering it though)
Then im greedier because my manabase is exactly like yours minus fetches (-4 fetches -1 godless +1 temple + 1 copperline +1 blackcleave +1 forest +1 swamp). Very rarely i run into mana problems.
4 Maze's End
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Riot Control
4 Urban Evolution
3 Into the Wilds
2 Cyclonic Rift
1 Treasured Find
2 Selesnya Charm
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Heroes' Reunion
1 Renounce the Guilds
2 Warleader's Helix
This is the list im thinkering of.
* Selesnya Charm acts as a pseudo fog against aggro (killing an early pesky creature with the token can prevent enough damage in the long run to warrant fog status), or as removal for fatties and the gods.
* I honestly like the build running loads of lands + into the wilds.
* Heroes' Reunion is another pseudo fog to deal agains RDW. It also allows to fog when there is no pressure on the board (against, say midrange) and utilize our mana more efficiently
* Renounce the guilds and Warleader's Helix are there as my meta will probably be filled with Smiters and domris
* I run three sweepers md (verdict + 2 cyclonic rifts) and gaze of granite on the board. This number may vary
*
That deck is a deck i've been playing for sometime. Basically Kuldotha Red from the early Zendikar-Scars standard with the addition of Goblin Grenades. A few things of note:
Contested War Zone is INSANE on this deck.
Goblin Wardriver would be the flex slot. It always felt too slow to me. Either goblin chieftains mogg war marshalls or more artifacts (Panic spellbomb is great here)
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5936561
Search for Sokela and you'll find it.
2 Angelic Wall
3 Blind Obedience
3 Observant Alseid
3 Auramancer
4 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Chromatic Lantern
3 Helliod, God of the Sun
2 Gideon, Champion of Justice
3 Celestial Archon
3 Celestial Flare
4 Pacifism
1 Arrest
The plan basically consists on stalling early threats with pacifism, obedience and angelic wall, playing a Gideon that gets huge or a Helliod and take over the game. Quite straight forward (in theory at least). In practice there are things like creatures with hexproof and Stormbreath Hellkite, but either a Sphere of Safety or Celestial Flare can stop them. Also, i think this deck might be a good place for the m14 Ajani's Chosen guy that put tokens and Elspeth. Bestow creature are for curve early and pump Archon, gideon or Helliod tokens late (and leave us a guy). The lantern is for acceleration, but they can probably be cut. Also there is half a set yet to be revealed, so there might be (or not) plenty of stuff for this thing to work.
So, thoughts?