I'm liking the enthusiasm, but a few things aren't adding up.
In a bridge build I don't see room for 6-7 spot removal...what are you cutting?
Expertise...what is a good number, main or side, and do you not find it whiffing once hellbent? Seems like it would have problems reminiscent of Waste Not. (ie. poor if it doesn't come down on schedule.) Also, 4 mana has "traditionally" been an issue...how many land do you run?
I'm still tossing around numerous ideas trying to decide on my build for GP Vancouver. Browsing the forums, I'm starting to lean further away from creatures as it seems every black deck is looking to run some number of FP. Looking back to bridge and bitterblossom at this point.
There are a couple other ways to enable revolt that aren't as obvious...such as Lili and Urborg under the legendary rule. We've all had to double urborg at some point...this provides more potential benefit from that type of circumstance.
Haven't played for a long time and figured I need to start prepping for the Vancouver gp. Played in an 8 man fnm and went 3-0 against UR control with a metallurgic summonings win con, UW control and 8whack. This build felt good. No instances of smallpox interfering with my creatures. And tombstalker helped win the only game it appeared in. Sorry about the lack of formatting...sending this from my phone.
I've stated it in the original forum and in the previous forum...when it comes to bridge builds, I still prefer a 1-of Syphon Life maindeck as an alt-alt win-con due to low life stabilization. Runs on the same engine as raven's crime and bypasses the problem of card hoarding/extra draw when you can't find persistent discard and can't get through with creatures due to bridge.
I don't like Tymaret very much either, but if you don't find a sac outlet or one gets removed, having access to one from the grave is nice. He's too mana intensive to use once in hand, that's why I'm thinking Nim Devourer may be a better option as it will go straight to battlefield, bringing Amalgams with it, and still gives that sac effect Tymaret does. The interesting thing about Nim is that it can just sac itself and profit off Bridges and Amalgams in the yard. The downside is that the sac is restricted to your upkeep which is poor timing in regards to dredging on draw step as well as being able to attack...Tymaret has the advantage of being able to sac at instant speed. Maybe I'll try one of each to provide more options. And I'm short 1 GGT...that may replace Tormenting Voice when I finally get one.
Gnaw to the Bone is your best chance. I run 1 main and would side at least 2 more for that scenario. With 35 creatures in my build I can easily gain 10+ life on turn 3.
So, 12 Dredge, 8 Sac outlets, 8 looters...seems to be a decent balance. 1 of Thug allows me to grab either a sac outlet, prep a Narco for the next dredge, or grab Blood Artist for a combo kill that doesn't involve combat damage (beats Ensnaring Bridge/Ghostly Prison type strats.) Diversified the sac outlets as each has it's benefits....Gargadon as exile protects it and lands a large body, Rusalka as it synergizes with dredgers or loots as needed, Seer for free/unlimited sacs, Tymaret sacs from the GY (may change this to a Nim Devourer as it comes into play to attack or sac.) Stichwing is awesome...dumping dredgers stuck in hand and getting a creature in play. Tormenting Voice is just filler for now...will replace it with either another GGT or another looter.
On a side note, I was doing some goldfishing using 3 Asylum Visitors. One situation was pretty crazy when all 3 were in play...drawing 4 cards which led to land, Affliction, Rack, and Lili...all playable immediately. Going off this, maybe 4cmc cards are feasible with the extra draws...like 1-2 Damnation. Something to think about.
Of all the Grimgrin decklists that I've read through, I find that there hasn't been enough undead goodness for my liking. My take on the deck has been to keep it as "on theme" as possible. Every card has been meticulously chosen to keep with the zombie theme (with only a couple concessions) while trying to stay as competitive as possible. It plays with the feel of a zombie apocalypse. There is no explosive start. If suppressed early the invasion can be kept at bay, otherwise the swarm multiplies and eventually overruns everyone. It's designed to keep throwing more and more threats, it can go wide with tokens and make them large with Lords, and it can combo in a few different ways if necessary. Due to keeping it on theme it can struggle with artifacts and enchantments as it's mono-black for the most part with only a handful blue cards.
The plan is to continue updating this thread with synergies, etc...for now I'll start with the current decklist.
Shepherd of Rot- With the amount of Zombies this deck can produce this guy can do a huge chunk of damage across the table. Just be careful as it hits you too.
Fleshbag Marauder- Removal that can be abused with recursion. He's just not effective against mass tokens.
Diregraf Captain- Combo piece and Lord in one. Can't attack with that horde of zombies for some reason? Sac em all for direct damage.
Lich Lord of Unx- Makes an extra zombie baby each turn, but also acts as an alternative win con (albeit blue mana intensive.)
Cemetery Reaper- Another Lord, plus he can act as targeted graveyard removal and populate a zombie in the process. Won't complain about that.
Death Baron- Another Lord, with the sweet bonus of granting all his friends Deathtouch...so even those little Unx babies can become problematic.
Lord of the Undead- And yet another Lord, this one adding in recursion to bring back his friends that may have already perished or skipped straight to the grave.
Zombie Master- Giving all zombies swampwalk with Urborg out makes for a deadly combination. Being able to regenerate them is gravy.
Erebos, God of the Dead- One of the 3 non-zombies...but still directly related to the theme. Primary use is the card draw, your opponents not being able to gain life is nice though. Should be able to have him active as a creature most of the time.
Vengeful Dead- Combo piece...even better than Diregraf Captain because it hits everyone at once.
Graveborn Muse- My favorite card draw. If someone doesn't take her out she snowballs out of control and draws tons of cards. Just make sure to have a sac outlet or you will kill yourself.
Liliana's Reaver- This is a catch-22 threat. If they block it, the blocker dies. If they don't, it's hand disruption and a token. I'm fine either way.
Undead Warchief- My favorite Lord...+2/+1 and makes all zombies cheaper...now that's worth 4 mana unlike Risen Executioner.
Corpse Connoisseur- Used primarily as a tutor for one card...Gravecrawler. If you have recursion on hand then other targets can be considered.
Havengul Lich- Synergizes really well with Rooftop Storm, but even paying full cost it's nice to get stuff back for an extra mana...not to mention being able to play other people's creatures.
Ghoulcaller Gisa- Another of the 3 non-zombie, but unbelievable if allowed to activate and well deserving of a spot. Lord up a Gravecrawler, even slap Sword of Vengeance on it, and you can potentially produce 10+ zombies from B...and if those Lords are in play...those aren't just 2/2 tokens.
Gempalm Polluter- You never want to see this guy on the battlefield. As long as you have a bunch of zombies in play he can be cheap finisher...double it with recursion like Lord of the Undead for just a few more mana.
Grave Titan- The 3rd of the non-zombies. Not much needs to be said, this guy is a champ at zombie production.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed- Undying allows for a non stop assault with all of your non-token creatures...bonus points for ETB effects like Grave Titan, Skinrender and Fleshbag Marauder.
Cyclonic Rift- I really hate having this card in the deck as it doesn't fit the theme, but I feel that I need it as a concession to having minimal ways of dealing with permanents may it be artifacts, enchantments or a wall of tokens.
Empty the Pits- I love this card, but casting it is tough. The deck doesn't have a good way of filling the graveyard en mass so delving useless stuff like lands is not feasible and delving away zombies is not optimal either. But...later in the game, if you can get the Coffers/Urborg combo, a Lili ultimate, or just use an Ashnod's Altar combo....that can produce a high X value.
Reanimate- Bringing any creature out of any graveyard straight to the battlefield at the expense of a little life is awesome. One of my favorites when no one else has a good target and you have a at least a few devotion...cast Gary, sac Gary, Reanimate Gary.
A combination of the 2 new cards might be interesting as they do play nice together. If both are in play and active you could make 2 tokens per turn. The enchantment is a fine replacement for BB. BB is a bit more aggressive, but the life loss is a problem. With the new one, lifelink is sweet to help stabilize but the tokens won't be getting through for damage as easily as BB tokens. I think in a Bridge list this is actually fine. Digging deeper with Asylum Visitor and generating chumps and gaining life with Call the Bloodline will allow for more time and fuel for a Rack win. The problem is deck space....again.
In any case, I'm happy that we get more toys to test with.
For the record, and I've mentioned it previously, I did play a near-stock list (no Pox) at GP Vancouver 2015. It was going well at 5-1 with no buys...then I misplayed hard and that threw me off and I blew the rest. It's not a great example because I'm not a very experienced player, but the deck itself was doing great and should have gone 6-1 minimum. Even had a win against Grishoalbrand thanks to bridge and pithing needles and an Abzan win. Tossed it against Affinity when I had the win but forgot to uptick Lili in my excitement, followed by a train wreck of a loss to GW aggro and quitting at that point. More experienced players need to be trying out a stock list at larger events...which is not being done. We can see tons of video evidence put forth by even just Rob alone...yet people seem to make large adjustments, some do alright, and we still don't get to see how the build of the most experienced pilot will fair.
Except without those 1 cmc spells you can't win the game, so sitting behind the Bridge is absolutely pointless. Even if you run non-rack win conditions, such as a Pack Rat or Nyxathid, they can't attack because of your very own Bridge, which neither you nor your enemy can destroy. At that point your single card that does anything is Liliana, who can't win the game without an already established rack effect (prior to the Bridge ensnaring the board) or through her ultimate, with which you can either destroy your own artifact and hopefully have 10 Pack Rats left to swing with, or try to widdle their side of the board enough to not die once your defences are down. In either of those possible outcomes, unless you are playing for a PT top 8, playing it out is pointless, will get both of you to Time, and then you don't advance anyway because he has better tiebrakers than you because he is playing Eldrazi.
I lost my train of thought somewhere along the way but whatever, a point may have been made and that's good enough.
Rat was good, but it bothered me behind a bridge. I've gone back to Bitterblossom and Ghost Quarter main and a couple Tombstalker in the side for when I have a reason to pull bridge and want that bigger clock.
The most glaring thing is only 21 land (which is low to begin with) and running a full set of smallpox. That will hurt you in trying to play 3 drops. 22-23 land without pox, 23-24 land with pox are the common numbers. The other concern would be the lack of main deck targeted removal. I would start with dropping the blackmail for 2 more Inquisition and a swamp or Urborg. Then consider dropping Bridge or Pox for main deck removal (Victim of Night is the preferred choice as it catches most threats) and maybe more land if you keep Pox. The 2 camps have been either 1) run bridge and hide behind it (with possible protection from Spellskite or recurring with Buried Ruin) or 2) run smallpox with more land and try to remove threats and lands to slow them down. There doesn't seem to be too much success running both as Bridge adds another 4 3-drops which will be hard to reach when losing land to Pox...not to mention the repercussions of pitching to Raven's Crime. Don't skimp on land.
I love smallpox and tried the bridgeless smallpox build but didn't really like it. I've settled on a list similar to Destroyer's list in the primer (bridges and bitterblossom.)
In a bridge build I don't see room for 6-7 spot removal...what are you cutting?
Expertise...what is a good number, main or side, and do you not find it whiffing once hellbent? Seems like it would have problems reminiscent of Waste Not. (ie. poor if it doesn't come down on schedule.) Also, 4 mana has "traditionally" been an issue...how many land do you run?
I'm still tossing around numerous ideas trying to decide on my build for GP Vancouver. Browsing the forums, I'm starting to lean further away from creatures as it seems every black deck is looking to run some number of FP. Looking back to bridge and bitterblossom at this point.
// Deck: 8 Rack - Pox (60)
// Lands
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Mutavault
13 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// Creatures
2 Asylum Visitor
2 Pack Rat
1 Tombstalker
// Instants
3 Dismember
// Sorceries
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Raven's Crime
4 Thoughtseize
3 Smallpox
3 Wrench Mind
1 Syphon Life
// Enchantments
4 Shrieking Affliction
// Artifacts
3 The Rack
// Planeswalkers
4 Liliana of the Veil
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 The Rack
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Flaying Tendrils
SB: 3 Nyxathid
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
4x Mana Confluence
2x Dakmor Salvage
Creatures
3x Golgari Gravetroll
4x Stinkweed Imp
1x Golgari Thug
4x Narcomoeba
4x Bloodghast
4x Prized Amalgam
3x Drowned Rusalka
3x Greater Gargadon
1x Tymaret, The Murder King
1x Viscera Seer
4x Insolent Neonate
2x Stitchwing Skaab
1x Blood Artist
2x Life from the Loam
4x Faithless Looting
1x Tormenting Voice
1x Gnaw to the Bone
Enchantments
4x Bridge from Below
So, 12 Dredge, 8 Sac outlets, 8 looters...seems to be a decent balance. 1 of Thug allows me to grab either a sac outlet, prep a Narco for the next dredge, or grab Blood Artist for a combo kill that doesn't involve combat damage (beats Ensnaring Bridge/Ghostly Prison type strats.) Diversified the sac outlets as each has it's benefits....Gargadon as exile protects it and lands a large body, Rusalka as it synergizes with dredgers or loots as needed, Seer for free/unlimited sacs, Tymaret sacs from the GY (may change this to a Nim Devourer as it comes into play to attack or sac.) Stichwing is awesome...dumping dredgers stuck in hand and getting a creature in play. Tormenting Voice is just filler for now...will replace it with either another GGT or another looter.
The plan is to continue updating this thread with synergies, etc...for now I'll start with the current decklist.
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Creatures (32)
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Cryptbreaker
1 Gravecrawler
1 Relentless Dead
1 Withered Wretch
1 Shepherd of Rot
1 Coffin Queen
1 Diregraf Colossus
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Lord of the Accursed
1 Plague Belcher
1 Diregraf Captain
1 Lich Lord of Unx
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Death Baron
1 Lord of the Undead
1 Stronghold Assassin
1 Zombie Master
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Vengeful Dead
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Liliana's Reaver
1 Undead Warchief
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Havengul Lich
1 Ghoulcaller Gisa
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Gempalm Polluter
1 Grave Titan
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Empty the Pits
Sorceries (8)
1 Dark Salvation
1 Reanimate
1 Dread Summons
1 From Under the Floorboards
1 Living Death
1 Life's Finale
1 Zombie Apocalypse
1 Army of the Damned
Enchantments (9)
1 Zombie Infestation
1 Necromancer's Stockpile
1 Necropotence
1 Contamination
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Grave Pact
1 Call to the Grave
1 Liliana's Mastery
1 Rooftop Storm
Artifacts (9)
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Dimir Signet
1 Jet Medallion
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Liliana Vess
1 Liliana, Death's Majesty
Lands (36)
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Command Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Opal Palace
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Polluted Mire
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Watery Grave
3 Island
16 Swamp
Withered Wretch- Targeted grave hate.
Shepherd of Rot- With the amount of Zombies this deck can produce this guy can do a huge chunk of damage across the table. Just be careful as it hits you too.
Fleshbag Marauder- Removal that can be abused with recursion. He's just not effective against mass tokens.
Diregraf Captain- Combo piece and Lord in one. Can't attack with that horde of zombies for some reason? Sac em all for direct damage.
Lich Lord of Unx- Makes an extra zombie baby each turn, but also acts as an alternative win con (albeit blue mana intensive.)
Cemetery Reaper- Another Lord, plus he can act as targeted graveyard removal and populate a zombie in the process. Won't complain about that.
Death Baron- Another Lord, with the sweet bonus of granting all his friends Deathtouch...so even those little Unx babies can become problematic.
Lord of the Undead- And yet another Lord, this one adding in recursion to bring back his friends that may have already perished or skipped straight to the grave.
Stronghold Assassin- Spot removal on a body and sac outlet all in one. Bonus for synergizing with Gravecrawler.
Zombie Master- Giving all zombies swampwalk with Urborg out makes for a deadly combination. Being able to regenerate them is gravy.
Erebos, God of the Dead- One of the 3 non-zombies...but still directly related to the theme. Primary use is the card draw, your opponents not being able to gain life is nice though. Should be able to have him active as a creature most of the time.
Vengeful Dead- Combo piece...even better than Diregraf Captain because it hits everyone at once.
Graveborn Muse- My favorite card draw. If someone doesn't take her out she snowballs out of control and draws tons of cards. Just make sure to have a sac outlet or you will kill yourself.
Liliana's Reaver- This is a catch-22 threat. If they block it, the blocker dies. If they don't, it's hand disruption and a token. I'm fine either way.
Undead Warchief- My favorite Lord...+2/+1 and makes all zombies cheaper...now that's worth 4 mana unlike Risen Executioner.
Corpse Connoisseur- Used primarily as a tutor for one card...Gravecrawler. If you have recursion on hand then other targets can be considered.
Havengul Lich- Synergizes really well with Rooftop Storm, but even paying full cost it's nice to get stuff back for an extra mana...not to mention being able to play other people's creatures.
Ghoulcaller Gisa- Another of the 3 non-zombie, but unbelievable if allowed to activate and well deserving of a spot. Lord up a Gravecrawler, even slap Sword of Vengeance on it, and you can potentially produce 10+ zombies from B...and if those Lords are in play...those aren't just 2/2 tokens.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel- So broken in this deck....especially off a Living Death/Zombie Apocalypse with a full graveyard. He helps pay for the life loss from drawing cards with Muse, Necropotence, Augur and Dark Prophecy.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier- The only true tutor in the deck.
Gempalm Polluter- You never want to see this guy on the battlefield. As long as you have a bunch of zombies in play he can be cheap finisher...double it with recursion like Lord of the Undead for just a few more mana.
Grave Titan- The 3rd of the non-zombies. Not much needs to be said, this guy is a champ at zombie production.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed- Undying allows for a non stop assault with all of your non-token creatures...bonus points for ETB effects like Grave Titan, Skinrender and Fleshbag Marauder.
Cyclonic Rift- I really hate having this card in the deck as it doesn't fit the theme, but I feel that I need it as a concession to having minimal ways of dealing with permanents may it be artifacts, enchantments or a wall of tokens.
Empty the Pits- I love this card, but casting it is tough. The deck doesn't have a good way of filling the graveyard en mass so delving useless stuff like lands is not feasible and delving away zombies is not optimal either. But...later in the game, if you can get the Coffers/Urborg combo, a Lili ultimate, or just use an Ashnod's Altar combo....that can produce a high X value.
Reanimate- Bringing any creature out of any graveyard straight to the battlefield at the expense of a little life is awesome. One of my favorites when no one else has a good target and you have a at least a few devotion...cast Gary, sac Gary, Reanimate Gary.
Dread Summons- A new addition.
Updates:
2016-03 Started adding card choices
2017-08-04 Edited over a years worth of changes.
In any case, I'm happy that we get more toys to test with.
Bitterblossom FTW
I've been thinking a lot about Mikokoro, Center of the Sea and how that may be a great enabler for a dead Waste Not.
I love smallpox and tried the bridgeless smallpox build but didn't really like it. I've settled on a list similar to Destroyer's list in the primer (bridges and bitterblossom.)