why people keep comparing stirrings with preordain in terms of power level when it feels even more powerful than ponder?
if stirrings is legal, both blue cantrips should be in our format
Eh, I don't know about that. Let's not go too crazy with the Preordain/Ponder and Stirrings comparison. There's a real argument to be made about Stirrings being banned or Preordain being unbanned in lieu of a ban. But both? Why does blue now get twice the Stirrings effects? Because 4 copies of Stirrings somehow match 8 copies of P&P collectively? That doesn't track at all.
Re: data restrictions
It's true that Wizards does deliberately restrict data to prevent formats from being solved. And yet, they get solved anyway. Even with the data embargo, Legacy, Standard, Vintage, and Pauper all homogenized towards a few top decks and got "solved" at various points. Outside of the obviously busted Eldrazi Winter, Modern has not yet been solved despite many people trying. Modern also creates as much, if not more, incentive to solve it than in most of those other formats that were still solved sans incentives. In my experience, I'm guessing this is because Modern is actually healthier than those other formats. This is because there aren't top-tier decks that can do to Modern what decks based around Top, DRS, Probe, Gush, Drake, and energy did for their respective formats. This isn't because of data embargoes. This is because Modern is extremely resilient to solving, because all decks have bad matchups and dozens of decks are viable. People who want this to change have wishes that do not align with how Wizards envisions competitive formats, especially their flagship format.
Blue is the colour of filtering and card selection/draw, so... green should have better tools than blue?
why people keep comparing stirrings with preordain in terms of power level when it feels even more powerful than ponder?
if stirrings is legal, both blue cantrips should be in our format
Hello, new to the deck. I think that gb elves fits my playstyle more. Im building my manabase, and, for now, i only have 1 cavern of souls. Can you help me with that? thank you so much
humans is the real problem here. With humans (and maybe hollow one) being so powerful, players try to beat it with jeskai and mardu (and jund), decks that tron predates. At the same time, humans keep combo decks (natural hosers of tron) at bay. This creates a perfect storm for tron to be so prevalent
Im not saying that stirrings needs a ban or not, but i think that the problem is not the deck per se
edit: LSV on humans at las vegas
"A sea of humanity. There weren’t actually infinite Humans decks in the tournament, but many high-profile players were on the deck, and we spiked a lot of mirrors. Explaining that whoever draws more Thalia’s Lieutenants is probably going to win is not the most enthralling part of coverage."
One thought on twin and new cards, isn't it possible that twin with these new cards would be oppressive? Just like "sure there are some good blue decks now but only because of new blue cards printed after twin ban" I don't know if twin would play search, teferi, opt, ancestral vision, jtms etc but maybe it would and that bumps it ahead the same amount that these new blue decks have gone.
Maybe more relevant if we think about peordain and stoneforge coming off. Twin would be a blue combo deck gaining on preordain, and I think some people really feared "twinblade" as a deck.
We can't really know, but there's some risk that all the cards coming out to push blue and control forward would also push twin forward beyond what people remember the deck as being.
At least, i think that the classic ur build probably would be easily outclassed. Jeskai and grixis twin are, imo, better decks atm
stirrings is a reaaally powerful card, but i think that it would be a lot better to reduce the banlist with preordain (and even ponder, that, to me, has the same power level as stirrings, but anyway)
with humans being such a powerful deck, jeskai rises, so tron and such emerges to prey those kind of decks
Do you Remember when a lot of people were crying for a ban on death's shadow? what happened? nothing, the deck is fine, and valakut? and eldrazi temple? and grapeshot?
WOTC should stop banning and testing unbans and more universal answers
well but that argument can be applied to any combo deck, so i think that it doesnt really fit
At the same time, i think that the format needs more powerful (or maybe more flexible) answers and tools to find those answers
For example, is wasteland too good for modern? at this point, i think that the power level of the card is not so far from the rest of the format. The same for ponder, preordain, GSZ, stoneforge and things like brainstorm and fow too
It is time to get new modern cards that are not std legal
i dont get why people keeps talking about stirrings and preordain, when the green cantrip is almost even more powerful than ponder.
Even while stirrings is a reaaaally good magic card, i think that the problem is that there's no logic in modern, cause ponder and preodain gives too much consistency, so they are banned, but stirrings is legal AND part of the most powerful tier decks. id like to read WOTC about this subject, cause i really dont understand
i cannot say that birthing pod is safe, cause it's the same as humans. With every set, new powerful ETB/value creatures are printed, so pod will become more powerful, non stop. That is why was banned on the first place, and it is why it should stay banned (i like the deck, it is skill intensive and rewarding. im not a hater, but that's the reality)
to me, the best shells for GSZ are gw company (and it will be like legacy's maverick, something that seems interesting in modern), elves (but i doubt that chord/company are worst to run than the zenith) and maybe amulet titan/scapeshift. The only thing that seems to keep zenith out of modern is the "all games plays the same" that wizards seems to hate
I'd jam GSZ in elves all day long over chord, all day. Not sure about coco as spitting out two dudes is still relevant a lot of the time.
The card is probably fine? I'm pretty sure jund shadow drops traverse though, so zenntih becomes shadow 5-8 for 2 mana and can find higher cmc threats as the game goes long (goyf, scooze, etc.) maybe not, I have no exp piloting the deck. Seems groovy on paper though.
you can only search for green creatures with zenith, so no shadow
Chord vs GSZ is an interesting discussion, cause both cards are amazing an serves the same role, but to me, chord is a more combo oriented card than the zenith, so maybe it would open more room to brew
Blue is the colour of filtering and card selection/draw, so... green should have better tools than blue?
if stirrings is legal, both blue cantrips should be in our format
Im not saying that stirrings needs a ban or not, but i think that the problem is not the deck per se
edit: LSV on humans at las vegas
"A sea of humanity. There weren’t actually infinite Humans decks in the tournament, but many high-profile players were on the deck, and we spiked a lot of mirrors. Explaining that whoever draws more Thalia’s Lieutenants is probably going to win is not the most enthralling part of coverage."
At least, i think that the classic ur build probably would be easily outclassed. Jeskai and grixis twin are, imo, better decks atm
with humans being such a powerful deck, jeskai rises, so tron and such emerges to prey those kind of decks
Do you Remember when a lot of people were crying for a ban on death's shadow? what happened? nothing, the deck is fine, and valakut? and eldrazi temple? and grapeshot?
WOTC should stop banning and testing unbans and more universal answers
At the same time, i think that the format needs more powerful (or maybe more flexible) answers and tools to find those answers
For example, is wasteland too good for modern? at this point, i think that the power level of the card is not so far from the rest of the format. The same for ponder, preordain, GSZ, stoneforge and things like brainstorm and fow too
It is time to get new modern cards that are not std legal
Even while stirrings is a reaaaally good magic card, i think that the problem is that there's no logic in modern, cause ponder and preodain gives too much consistency, so they are banned, but stirrings is legal AND part of the most powerful tier decks. id like to read WOTC about this subject, cause i really dont understand
you can only search for green creatures with zenith, so no shadow
Chord vs GSZ is an interesting discussion, cause both cards are amazing an serves the same role, but to me, chord is a more combo oriented card than the zenith, so maybe it would open more room to brew