Badabingbadabum: It works. The deck can kill by turn 2 a scary amount. Combine with noxious revival to get back things like goryo's vengeance you pull to the grave (or make it so that the fury of the horde kill almost never whiffs.
I'm pretty sure that is a pretty rare occasion, though, that deck seems to get quite a few awful/clunky hands/draws because it requires very specific pieces.
Ya, I *believe* griselbrand combo will probably win this challenge, but part of it is to see how consistent people can make it. I am currently testing a version with 4 serum powder and 4 gemstone caverns and 4 pull from eternity and 4 funeral charm. You choose to draw, and turn on turn 0 you get griselbrand in the grave with either cavern+pull or just discard. Then on your turn, you can just play a second land, cast goryo's vengeance, and win. So, a turn 1 win is possible without even using SSG.
Im also interesting in how broken people can get their nivmagus type decks to be, but gathering all the data is a big task...
Here is the challenge: try to make a deck that goldfishes as 'fast as possible'. Decks will be graded on two criteria:
1) % of the the time the deck wins on turn 3 or before (assume on draw)
2) Deck's 'score/game'. For every game, a turn 3 win is worth 1 point, a turn 2 win is worth 3 points, a turn 1 win is worth 10 points, and a turn 0 win is worth 30 points (turn 4+ is worth 0 points). Divide the total score by the number of game's played to get is normalized score. At least 100 games should be played to get a reasonably accurate score. Assume on the draw (so turn 0 is possible). Record results and post in forums.
There are plenty of 'thought experiments' on turn 0 and turn 1 wins, and while this challenge is somewhat similar, the key difference is that it is looking to do those combos as consistently as possible.
Ideally, criteria 1 will be met with a % of ~25% or greater. It would might be interesting to see how the fastest 'good decks' in the format score (i.e. storm, infect) as well as the more fringe strategies (nivmagus/kiln field, grisel-reanimator).
If you have an idea you think holds promise, post up a list.
This card currently sees minimal play, outside of potentially Ad Naseum Combo. Should it be seeing more play as a 1-of in other combo-based lists? Has anyone tested it in other shells? If so, what were the results?
Note, if you use enough relic of progenitus (recently Ive been testing the full 4 copies), it can also kill tarmogoyf. It also is solid against any creature with unequal p/t such as snapcaster, clique, etc.
With wild defiance its a solid pump spell. Occasionally you can sneak in an extra point off pendlehaven. I have cast image+gut shot to kill a deciever exarch before.
How is this deck budget, and why are you assuming I am playing the monogreen version without fetches?? The deck is probably at least $400-$500, in line with decks like affinity.
I specifically mentioned in my post: "Note: all this applies for my particular list. Different infect lists may have very different UWR control matchups."
Lines like "It has been long established infect is a glass cannon, it was a glass cannon when it was a tier 1 deck in modern ( little bit of history with blazing shoal, please google it before you comment on it seriously...guys google it...blazing shoal was banned becuase of infect, read before you comment. Google it..)" are just insulting everyone's intelligence, and makes me think you are simply a troll. Why would we google it, I would guess a large fraction of players know why blazing shoal got banned. The definition of 'glass cannon' is subjective, but I would contend that if a deck like UWR control is a fair matchup, that directly implies infect is NOT a glass cannon.
"I don't discount your friends efforts, but he is doing something very wrong if he can't beat a tier 3 fringe budget deck with a protour level control deck."
Ok. So, you think someone who took 1st place at a 1000+ player grand prix piloting control, who has won several tens of thousands playing magic, is not a reasonable player, or you simply didnt read my post.
Your experience is playing against PTQ level players. Ok, not unreasonable. But if you accept that people who travel for PTQ's are good, it doesnt make sense that you discount the fact that I beat UWR control in the top8 of a PTQ, and won my win-and-in against UWR control at the same PTQ.
"However, any serious deck is a tough match up for infect."
I just started playing PTQ's (only played 2 so far), and am by no means the best player ever. My record in the swiss portion of PTQ's discounting intentional draws with infect vs tier decks is 12-3. My record at the FNM level is 58-12.
Now, you mention twin as a challenging match-up for infect. There I agree. I dont think twin is a terrible matchup, but they are probably favored.
"I take the posts about how America control is junk and easy for infect, with a grain of salt."
America control is fine. I dont think its amazing but its a solid real deck. I dont think its 'easy' for infect. I think its a very close matchup for pilots of equal skill/experience playing the matchup.
Well, maybe he just got lucky and always had it all..
Can you tell me your sideboard for this matchup?
Well if you're playing America control and the guy has zero fetch lands, is playing against infect and electrolytes or bolts YOU then you know you're in a favorable matchup becuase it's like racing a 13 year old girl who is burning the clutch and grinding gears.
Uwr control is a bad matchup, vendillion, snap asters, bolts, Helix, cryptic command and mana leak are all a thorn.
If they don't board out remand, or sphinx then they don't know what they're doing.
And there are a lot of bad America control players on mtgo. I've played them before. Running the theros god and running less than optimal colonnades, in a PTQ nobody is going to helix you for 3 when you have 5 mana and 5 cards in hand playing infect unless it's for lethal
You repeatedly make bold claims in this thread (infect is a glass cannon, infect is weak to uwr control, etc), that many experienced infect players disagree with. You claim dailies are soft. Im curious as to exactly what experience you are basing your assertion that UWR is a bad matchup off of. Do you regularly play against Pro Tour/GP top 8 caliber players, and have significant testing experience against them?
So, youve seen people online make budget choices in a daily. Thus, you discount daily results? This is pretty flawed reasoning. The majority of online players are more skilled than the majority of paper players, because playing more makes you better at this game and online players have that opportunity. All this is coming from a paper player.
drinkard claims significant testing experience shows UWR is not a bad matchup. This does not sway you.
My personal experience. At 5-1 at my last PTQ, I played vs UWR control and won. I drew into top 8, then played UWR again (this time winning 2-0). At my local store, I regularly play against Kyle Boggemes who plays UWR control, and we agree the matchup is very close to even, possibly slightly favoring infect. Kyle has won a recent GP playing a control deck (albeit in standard) and made the finals of a Pro Tour, so hopefully that is sufficient proof he knows what he is talking about. I think my match record vs Kyle infect vs uwr is either even or im up a match lifetime.
So, Ill admit, if your opponent is very skilled, its tough. The thing is, Kyle has played me a bunch of times, and knows my deck. Even very good uwr pilots probably arent used to playing such a fringe matchup. However, even if your opponent is very skilled and knows the matchup, I think its a coinflip matchup at worst.
Overall, my record vs UWR is probably closer to 70% win. Obviously the matchup is not so lopsided, but I think an equally skilled infect player vs an equally skilled UWR control player should favor infect, given that UWR is the more popular deck, so the infect player is presumably more experienced in that matchup.
Note: all this applies for my particular list. Different infect lists may have very different UWR control matchups.
Speaking of T1 plays, I don't think anyone has actually played this: Ancient Stirrings. It's kind of like Sylvan Scrying in that it can get Infect creatures or Cathedral. It isn't guaranteed to get what you want, but it is cheaper. Also comparable to Sleight of Hand in UG, but Stirrings digs much deeper and lets you stay in one color.
I wouldn't play it without 4 Necropede and 4 Ichorclaw Myr though, so I'd start with a mono-green deck with 4 of both and cut two Rancors for Stirrings:
I tested stirrings for GP detroit. In the end, it was simply too weak. Actually, it was fine, but more problematically, it forces you to play with bad cards.
not sure i can agree with some of the mainboard quantities. such as the spell pierce, seems like the random 1 of spell pierce would just get lost in the 75
1 rancor? why bother with rancor at all?
Hi TheRogue, did not notice you were from michigan before. The list you reference is mine.
The reason rancor is a 1-of is because I only want 1 of the effect. If you look at the list, youll notice I use sylvan scrying as an infect creature (inkmoth), and inkmoth + nexus is a lot of mana. Multiple rancor are typically bad, and it can be easy for removal heavy decks to blow you out if you use rancor. Also, growing goyf is a real risk.
So why 1 at all? I only run 2 apostle's blessing. I want enough ways to get through damage on a stalled board. With rancor, I have ~7 reasonable answers to a card like lingering souls in the maindeck (2 blessing, 1 rancor, 4 agent). Why not run a third blessing? Because, blessing is just dead in some matchups, and just is a mediocre effect in general. The only reason I run it, is because it is colorless. I like having 4 colorless spells main, so I can use my inkmoth nexus mana more effectively.
Rancor is very good against both affinity and melira out of the commonly played decks. It competes with distortion strike as a finisher type card, but I have always preferred rancor. rancor is easier to cast, and is much better in a relatively common scenario - dealing normal damage through melira. Its actually not to hard to deal 20 if you have agent + rancor vs a melira. This actually happened at the PTQ. In fact, the 1-of rancor single-handedly won me a match at each of the PTQs I played (the other match was vs jund).
To understand the maindeck spell pierce, you need to consider the deck as a whole, and not simply the 60 card maindeck. I feel strongly the deck wants a spell pierce (I certainly wouldnt fault someone for wanting 2-3 pierce/dispel), and if I put it in the sideboard I dont have that slot to play a card like nature's claim or twisted image. Also, by maindecking a card like pierce, once your opponent sees it, they will likely respect it the rest of the match, which is a slight advantage.
so you want people to critique on a decklist that you built for your local competitive meta? how is anyone going to make a suggestion without knowing how the grand prix decks play in your region?
not to mention, you're most likely going to shoot down any suggestions immediately.
why not just post your list, delete the entire blurb about your life story, what you and your girlfriend like to do on weekends, and tell us how you did at the grand prix in great detail? AFTER you get back.
when you head to the grand prix, take notes on what you play and share it here!
just grab a sign in blood brand notepad and write down the deck archetype where you kept your life total and then come on here and post memorable plays and such
Well, I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers, I just didn't know if this was a list worthwhile of taking to GP. I've done the testing and whatnot against the top tier decks, and it seems to perform well enough, I'm just really new to the game still, so I wanted input. I'm not going to shoot anyone's suggestions down; I haven't even been playing the game for a year yet. I'll just keep my mouth shut until I go, then.
I figured this was an okay community to pitch some ideas to. Sorry I'm not an old-timer elitist, I just want to talk about some Magic.
Your decklist is pretty good in my opinion. Not everyone in this community is an old-timer elitist. I play quite a similar list. I can confirm:
Spell pierce is a solid card, Id recommend 1-2 in your 75. Dispel is another option, although I personally prefer pierce.
Dismember is not necessarily needed as a 4-of, but it does really help in many matchups. Ive been playing 2 main/2 side, but 1 main/2 side or 2 main/1 side could also be correct. If its a card you want vs pod, twin, jund, and affinity, its probably good enough to maineck.
Twisted image is great. Id recommend 2 side.
I have found UWR control to be a good matchup for the deck. I face competent UWR players on a regular basis and feel even to favored. You have 4 wild defiance, which is great vs them. If you are really scared of this matchup, dispel over pierce will help, but honestly it may be either your playstyle or your decklist choices holding you back.
RUG twin can be tough. One of the biggest weaknesses in your list is tormod's crypt over relic of progenitus. You shrink goyf's. They often bring in spellskite, so you may want twisted image anyways, and image+relic kills a goyf (cast image first). You also turn off snapcaster and grim lavamancer. If you make the switch to relic, the matchup should be close. Good luck at the GP. If you are interested in more detailed advice let me know.
Im not saying I am the best player of anything, but my record with U/G infect at FNM's is 58-12 and in the only PTQs Ive played in I used it both times to go 6-2 and 6-1-1 (Top 4), which I think shows the deck is pretty reasonable. I feel comfortable playing just about anything.
Also, lingering souls junk may be on the rise. Just one more reason relic may be a good idea. You can find my list earlier in the thread. If it interests you, or you have questions about my advice, Ill try to answer.
That is if I even win long Grindy matches. The chances of infect winning past turn 4 plummet to near 0 if your opponent does not misplay. Half the time the infect player is the one that misplays. I know I make play mistakes every game everyday..
Oh my gosh please stop posting in this thread.
My experience is that infect is perfectly capable of winning long grindy games against grindy decks (UWR control and Jund). I am 58-12 in matches with this deck at my LGS, and discounting intentional draws I am 13-4 in matches at the PTQ level. If my chances of winning dropped to 'near 0' after 4 turns, Im sure my win % would be far less than 50%. Going all-in early in the game is often a recipe for disaster in many matchups. My matchups against UWR control (considering kiki-resto UWR as a separate archetype) is 2-0 at the PTQ level, and against jund at PTQs its also 2-0. I only remember 1 game of those 4 matches were I won on or before turn 4.
At: 180 man PTQ
ME: U/G Infect
Opponent: top20 ranked SCG grinder on Melira Pod.
Me: 1 life
Him: 3 life, 2 infect
Me: cards in hand - might of old krosa, dismember, land
Cards in play: Bunch of tapped lands + pendlehaven and blighted agent
Him: multiple birds of paradise, noble hierarch, and voice with a -1/-1 counter. Its his turn. He thoughtseizes, going to 1, taking my pump spell. He attacks... with the voice. It becomes a 2/2, so i block + pendlehaven. Why am I still alive? He then casts pod... and pods a birds into.... (drum roll please) MELIRA!!!!
I top4d a PTQ (180+ players) with my U/G infect list this Sunday
Matches were
Round 1: Green Devotion (black+red splashes). Win (2-1)
Round 2: Melira Pod. Win (2-1)
Round 3: Melira Pod. Win (2-1)
Round 4: RUG delver. Lose (1-2)
Round 5: UR Delver. Win (2-1)
Round 6: Affinity. Win (2-1)
Round 7: UWR control. Win (2-1)
Round 8: ID into top 8 (I had best breakers)
Top 8: UWR control. Win (2-0)
Top 4: U/R Twin. Lose (1-2)
None of my matches were particularly easy, as seen by the fact that every single match I played out in the swiss went to game 3. My pod opponents kept naturally drawing their 1 of melira, and I never drew my 2-of dismember, which made things difficult. I had to 'mindslaver' an SCG circuit top15 ranked player to win my third match in ridiculous fashion.
Top 4, I won game 1. Game 2 I nature's claimed a turn 3 blood moon, and then resolved a wild defiance turn 3 with inkmoth 2x, and breeding pool. My opponent spreading seas'd my only green source, and I didnt topdeck a second copy for the win. Its very difficult to lose with wild defiance and 0 pressure vs u/r from that situation (barring blood moon #2) so it was a rough loss. The third game I mulled to a very weak 6 and decided to risk it, and was easily crushed.
I have a question for all of you UG players out there. What does your mana base look like and how many sources of blue do you need? I was basically going to just splash for Blighted Agent so I don't need a lot of blue. I am somewhat on a budget switching over from mono green. This is the starting point I have so far:
I am not sure how many basic forest and additional blue sources I should run. Ideally I would like to have 4 Verdant Catacoms and 2 basic forest but I don't know if 4 Verdant Catacombs will be in the budget right away after getting the Misty Rainforsts and Noble Hierarchs. I was thinking maybe some number of Yavimaya Coast and basic forest to round it out. I'm not sure I like Hinterland Harbor. It just seems like this deck has too many non islands/forests for it to enter untapped. Not to mention it's terrible turn one. So let me know what mana bases you all are using and how to finish mine out please.
So, you want at least 2 basics, and I prefer 3 forests. You want 9+ blue sources, depending on how many other blue cards you have main/side (twisted image/dispel/hurkyl's recall/spell pierce/etc). I currently run
4 verdant catacomb
4 breeding pool
3 forest
4 inkmoth nexus
2 pendlehaven
2 yavimaya coast
1 cathedral of war
The only 'budget' consideration is you probably want -2 breeding pool +2 misty rainforest. I run a spell pierce main, and sometimes you want to leave it up turn 1 without shocking yourself. Yavimaya coast as a 1-2 of can be great since its a way to play blighted agent while only giving up a single life, critical vs burn. With shock+fetch, you take 3 to get a blue source, and i find the 'average' damage you deal with coast is less than 3. Hinterland harbor is unplayable in infect.
On giant growth: I agree with its place in Ultra_Magnus' build. Infect needs *something* vs bolt. I prefer spellskite and wild defiance, but giant growth is better in a deck without hierarch (as they will often have already used their bolt on hierarch, and turn 2 wild defiance is much better than turn 3)
Ya, I *believe* griselbrand combo will probably win this challenge, but part of it is to see how consistent people can make it. I am currently testing a version with 4 serum powder and 4 gemstone caverns and 4 pull from eternity and 4 funeral charm. You choose to draw, and turn on turn 0 you get griselbrand in the grave with either cavern+pull or just discard. Then on your turn, you can just play a second land, cast goryo's vengeance, and win. So, a turn 1 win is possible without even using SSG.
Im also interesting in how broken people can get their nivmagus type decks to be, but gathering all the data is a big task...
1) % of the the time the deck wins on turn 3 or before (assume on draw)
2) Deck's 'score/game'. For every game, a turn 3 win is worth 1 point, a turn 2 win is worth 3 points, a turn 1 win is worth 10 points, and a turn 0 win is worth 30 points (turn 4+ is worth 0 points). Divide the total score by the number of game's played to get is normalized score. At least 100 games should be played to get a reasonably accurate score. Assume on the draw (so turn 0 is possible). Record results and post in forums.
There are plenty of 'thought experiments' on turn 0 and turn 1 wins, and while this challenge is somewhat similar, the key difference is that it is looking to do those combos as consistently as possible.
Ideally, criteria 1 will be met with a % of ~25% or greater. It would might be interesting to see how the fastest 'good decks' in the format score (i.e. storm, infect) as well as the more fringe strategies (nivmagus/kiln field, grisel-reanimator).
If you have an idea you think holds promise, post up a list.
This card currently sees minimal play, outside of potentially Ad Naseum Combo. Should it be seeing more play as a 1-of in other combo-based lists? Has anyone tested it in other shells? If so, what were the results?
1 ornithopter
1 birds of paradise
1 noble hierarch
1 izzet staticaster
1 wall of roots
Note, if you use enough relic of progenitus (recently Ive been testing the full 4 copies), it can also kill tarmogoyf. It also is solid against any creature with unequal p/t such as snapcaster, clique, etc.
With wild defiance its a solid pump spell. Occasionally you can sneak in an extra point off pendlehaven. I have cast image+gut shot to kill a deciever exarch before.
"tier 3 fringe budget deck"
How is this deck budget, and why are you assuming I am playing the monogreen version without fetches?? The deck is probably at least $400-$500, in line with decks like affinity.
For clarification, my list is at: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7862&d=245273&f=MO
I specifically mentioned in my post: "Note: all this applies for my particular list. Different infect lists may have very different UWR control matchups."
Lines like "It has been long established infect is a glass cannon, it was a glass cannon when it was a tier 1 deck in modern ( little bit of history with blazing shoal, please google it before you comment on it seriously...guys google it...blazing shoal was banned becuase of infect, read before you comment. Google it..)" are just insulting everyone's intelligence, and makes me think you are simply a troll. Why would we google it, I would guess a large fraction of players know why blazing shoal got banned. The definition of 'glass cannon' is subjective, but I would contend that if a deck like UWR control is a fair matchup, that directly implies infect is NOT a glass cannon.
"I don't discount your friends efforts, but he is doing something very wrong if he can't beat a tier 3 fringe budget deck with a protour level control deck."
Ok. So, you think someone who took 1st place at a 1000+ player grand prix piloting control, who has won several tens of thousands playing magic, is not a reasonable player, or you simply didnt read my post.
Your experience is playing against PTQ level players. Ok, not unreasonable. But if you accept that people who travel for PTQ's are good, it doesnt make sense that you discount the fact that I beat UWR control in the top8 of a PTQ, and won my win-and-in against UWR control at the same PTQ.
"However, any serious deck is a tough match up for infect."
I just started playing PTQ's (only played 2 so far), and am by no means the best player ever. My record in the swiss portion of PTQ's discounting intentional draws with infect vs tier decks is 12-3. My record at the FNM level is 58-12.
Now, you mention twin as a challenging match-up for infect. There I agree. I dont think twin is a terrible matchup, but they are probably favored.
"I take the posts about how America control is junk and easy for infect, with a grain of salt."
America control is fine. I dont think its amazing but its a solid real deck. I dont think its 'easy' for infect. I think its a very close matchup for pilots of equal skill/experience playing the matchup.
You repeatedly make bold claims in this thread (infect is a glass cannon, infect is weak to uwr control, etc), that many experienced infect players disagree with. You claim dailies are soft. Im curious as to exactly what experience you are basing your assertion that UWR is a bad matchup off of. Do you regularly play against Pro Tour/GP top 8 caliber players, and have significant testing experience against them?
So, youve seen people online make budget choices in a daily. Thus, you discount daily results? This is pretty flawed reasoning. The majority of online players are more skilled than the majority of paper players, because playing more makes you better at this game and online players have that opportunity. All this is coming from a paper player.
drinkard claims significant testing experience shows UWR is not a bad matchup. This does not sway you.
My personal experience. At 5-1 at my last PTQ, I played vs UWR control and won. I drew into top 8, then played UWR again (this time winning 2-0). At my local store, I regularly play against Kyle Boggemes who plays UWR control, and we agree the matchup is very close to even, possibly slightly favoring infect. Kyle has won a recent GP playing a control deck (albeit in standard) and made the finals of a Pro Tour, so hopefully that is sufficient proof he knows what he is talking about. I think my match record vs Kyle infect vs uwr is either even or im up a match lifetime.
So, Ill admit, if your opponent is very skilled, its tough. The thing is, Kyle has played me a bunch of times, and knows my deck. Even very good uwr pilots probably arent used to playing such a fringe matchup. However, even if your opponent is very skilled and knows the matchup, I think its a coinflip matchup at worst.
Overall, my record vs UWR is probably closer to 70% win. Obviously the matchup is not so lopsided, but I think an equally skilled infect player vs an equally skilled UWR control player should favor infect, given that UWR is the more popular deck, so the infect player is presumably more experienced in that matchup.
Note: all this applies for my particular list. Different infect lists may have very different UWR control matchups.
I tested stirrings for GP detroit. In the end, it was simply too weak. Actually, it was fine, but more problematically, it forces you to play with bad cards.
Hi TheRogue, did not notice you were from michigan before. The list you reference is mine.
The reason rancor is a 1-of is because I only want 1 of the effect. If you look at the list, youll notice I use sylvan scrying as an infect creature (inkmoth), and inkmoth + nexus is a lot of mana. Multiple rancor are typically bad, and it can be easy for removal heavy decks to blow you out if you use rancor. Also, growing goyf is a real risk.
So why 1 at all? I only run 2 apostle's blessing. I want enough ways to get through damage on a stalled board. With rancor, I have ~7 reasonable answers to a card like lingering souls in the maindeck (2 blessing, 1 rancor, 4 agent). Why not run a third blessing? Because, blessing is just dead in some matchups, and just is a mediocre effect in general. The only reason I run it, is because it is colorless. I like having 4 colorless spells main, so I can use my inkmoth nexus mana more effectively.
Rancor is very good against both affinity and melira out of the commonly played decks. It competes with distortion strike as a finisher type card, but I have always preferred rancor. rancor is easier to cast, and is much better in a relatively common scenario - dealing normal damage through melira. Its actually not to hard to deal 20 if you have agent + rancor vs a melira. This actually happened at the PTQ. In fact, the 1-of rancor single-handedly won me a match at each of the PTQs I played (the other match was vs jund).
To understand the maindeck spell pierce, you need to consider the deck as a whole, and not simply the 60 card maindeck. I feel strongly the deck wants a spell pierce (I certainly wouldnt fault someone for wanting 2-3 pierce/dispel), and if I put it in the sideboard I dont have that slot to play a card like nature's claim or twisted image. Also, by maindecking a card like pierce, once your opponent sees it, they will likely respect it the rest of the match, which is a slight advantage.
Your decklist is pretty good in my opinion. Not everyone in this community is an old-timer elitist. I play quite a similar list. I can confirm:
Spell pierce is a solid card, Id recommend 1-2 in your 75. Dispel is another option, although I personally prefer pierce.
Dismember is not necessarily needed as a 4-of, but it does really help in many matchups. Ive been playing 2 main/2 side, but 1 main/2 side or 2 main/1 side could also be correct. If its a card you want vs pod, twin, jund, and affinity, its probably good enough to maineck.
Twisted image is great. Id recommend 2 side.
I have found UWR control to be a good matchup for the deck. I face competent UWR players on a regular basis and feel even to favored. You have 4 wild defiance, which is great vs them. If you are really scared of this matchup, dispel over pierce will help, but honestly it may be either your playstyle or your decklist choices holding you back.
RUG twin can be tough. One of the biggest weaknesses in your list is tormod's crypt over relic of progenitus. You shrink goyf's. They often bring in spellskite, so you may want twisted image anyways, and image+relic kills a goyf (cast image first). You also turn off snapcaster and grim lavamancer. If you make the switch to relic, the matchup should be close. Good luck at the GP. If you are interested in more detailed advice let me know.
Im not saying I am the best player of anything, but my record with U/G infect at FNM's is 58-12 and in the only PTQs Ive played in I used it both times to go 6-2 and 6-1-1 (Top 4), which I think shows the deck is pretty reasonable. I feel comfortable playing just about anything.
Also, lingering souls junk may be on the rise. Just one more reason relic may be a good idea. You can find my list earlier in the thread. If it interests you, or you have questions about my advice, Ill try to answer.
My experience is that infect is perfectly capable of winning long grindy games against grindy decks (UWR control and Jund). I am 58-12 in matches with this deck at my LGS, and discounting intentional draws I am 13-4 in matches at the PTQ level. If my chances of winning dropped to 'near 0' after 4 turns, Im sure my win % would be far less than 50%. Going all-in early in the game is often a recipe for disaster in many matchups. My matchups against UWR control (considering kiki-resto UWR as a separate archetype) is 2-0 at the PTQ level, and against jund at PTQs its also 2-0. I only remember 1 game of those 4 matches were I won on or before turn 4.
ME: U/G Infect
Opponent: top20 ranked SCG grinder on Melira Pod.
Me: 1 life
Him: 3 life, 2 infect
Me: cards in hand - might of old krosa, dismember, land
Cards in play: Bunch of tapped lands + pendlehaven and blighted agent
Him: multiple birds of paradise, noble hierarch, and voice with a -1/-1 counter. Its his turn. He thoughtseizes, going to 1, taking my pump spell. He attacks... with the voice. It becomes a 2/2, so i block + pendlehaven. Why am I still alive? He then casts pod... and pods a birds into.... (drum roll please) MELIRA!!!!
Me: Um, attack for lethal?
My list is the same 75 posted earlier in the thread with -1 gut shot +1 relic in the side.
Matches were
Round 1: Green Devotion (black+red splashes). Win (2-1)
Round 2: Melira Pod. Win (2-1)
Round 3: Melira Pod. Win (2-1)
Round 4: RUG delver. Lose (1-2)
Round 5: UR Delver. Win (2-1)
Round 6: Affinity. Win (2-1)
Round 7: UWR control. Win (2-1)
Round 8: ID into top 8 (I had best breakers)
Top 8: UWR control. Win (2-0)
Top 4: U/R Twin. Lose (1-2)
None of my matches were particularly easy, as seen by the fact that every single match I played out in the swiss went to game 3. My pod opponents kept naturally drawing their 1 of melira, and I never drew my 2-of dismember, which made things difficult. I had to 'mindslaver' an SCG circuit top15 ranked player to win my third match in ridiculous fashion.
Top 4, I won game 1. Game 2 I nature's claimed a turn 3 blood moon, and then resolved a wild defiance turn 3 with inkmoth 2x, and breeding pool. My opponent spreading seas'd my only green source, and I didnt topdeck a second copy for the win. Its very difficult to lose with wild defiance and 0 pressure vs u/r from that situation (barring blood moon #2) so it was a rough loss. The third game I mulled to a very weak 6 and decided to risk it, and was easily crushed.
So, you want at least 2 basics, and I prefer 3 forests. You want 9+ blue sources, depending on how many other blue cards you have main/side (twisted image/dispel/hurkyl's recall/spell pierce/etc). I currently run
4 verdant catacomb
4 breeding pool
3 forest
4 inkmoth nexus
2 pendlehaven
2 yavimaya coast
1 cathedral of war
The only 'budget' consideration is you probably want -2 breeding pool +2 misty rainforest. I run a spell pierce main, and sometimes you want to leave it up turn 1 without shocking yourself. Yavimaya coast as a 1-2 of can be great since its a way to play blighted agent while only giving up a single life, critical vs burn. With shock+fetch, you take 3 to get a blue source, and i find the 'average' damage you deal with coast is less than 3. Hinterland harbor is unplayable in infect.
On giant growth: I agree with its place in Ultra_Magnus' build. Infect needs *something* vs bolt. I prefer spellskite and wild defiance, but giant growth is better in a deck without hierarch (as they will often have already used their bolt on hierarch, and turn 2 wild defiance is much better than turn 3)