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  • posted a message on This or That discussion.
    Quote from Cythare »
    For me, it's:

    Birds of Paradise > Joraga Treespeaker > Noble Hierarch > Llanowar Elves=Elvish Mystic=Fyndhorn Elves > Gilded Goose > Arbor Elf, except that I personally prioritize Gilded Goose before the third of the redundant Elf trio (it just felt weird to arbitrarily assign one of the three as the "worse" one.

    Re: Ajani v Nahiri, they're cards that go in very different decks, but in a more traditional, smaller cube, Ajani is probably going to perform better since he'll be a top-end card for aggro while Nahiri will want to be more combo oriented, which may not find itself too heavily in white. I'd add Ajani first if I only had room for one.

    Essentially agree, although instead of guilded goose I have avacyn's pilgrim as my last mana dork. Also, if you run stuff like wild growth or utopia sprawl arbor elf moves up.

    Ajani goes in a lot more decks than Nahiri and is a better card IMO.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on This or That discussion.
    Yeah Geddon goes in a completely different deck type than Catastrophe (which will be cast for its wrath mode most of the time and is used by control decks, while geddon and ravages go in aggro generally), and I think geddon and ravages are both much better.

    I also have never gotten around to buying a ravages or making a good proxy (I will proxy but we did transparencies over blank foils and the person who did those moved away, so I'd need to learn, and I won't do paper proxies cause it looks bad), but I can't believe it hasn't gotten printed in a supplemental product at some point. Geddon is a $5 rare. One reprint of ravages would drop it's price there too, and it's not on the reserve list. There's no reason for it to be a $100 card.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Show and Tell
    Quote from happyjosiah »
    Show and Tell is good. It's cheaper than the other cards mentioned. It's about as "fair" as Exhume in my opinion.

    Except that there's no deck other than reanimator that will generally be putting big creatures in their GY.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Help Integrating Combos
    Quote from bnans_25 »

    Also, wtwlf, I've noticed that you've started to categorize some cards outside of their respective sections. Could you comment on your methodology? I could see counting something like Dryad Militant as 50% Green and 50% White, but I'm not really sure what to do with cards like Dismemeber (is it colourless or is the double Phyrexian mana a big enough deal to make it a black card) or Soulfire Grandmaster (would this ever get played as a white card or always in a Jeskai combination).

    I don't run many combos in my cube (just mainstream stuff like reanimator, sneak attack, channel etc) so I couldn't help much on that front, but I do categorize cards outside their color identities so I can answer this one.

    Categorize cards by where they see the vast majority of their play. So, for me, lots on non-B decks run dismember and lots of non-U decks run metamorph, so they are colorless cards. Rakdos Cackler sees essentially 0 play outside of red decks, so it's red. When we still ran Mulitant, it saw the vast majority of its play in WW or Wx aggro, so it was a white card. Nature's Chant is a strictly better disenchant (minus sphinx of the steel wind), which we ran to give white another instant speed answer, and it's more important to the white decks as the green decks like their creatures for disenchants, so it's categorized as white.

    My philosophy there is I'm trying to make an environment that is balanced across the colors, at least in terms of the cards available to each color. If I take up a spot in a color with a card that all colors can play, that color is made "worse" in the cube. Similarly, if I take up one of the very limited guild slots with a card that is primarily played in only decks that have 1 of the colors, then I'm making that guild worse. Also FWIW I had soulfire in Jeskai when I ran it because it's pretty bad in a mono-W deck.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Show and Tell
    Quote from steve_man »

    I'd argue that your cube can do more to support it. There are a good amount of supporting cards that could support Show and Tell shells that I found missing in your list:

    - Brainstorm
    - Imperial Seal
    - Through the Breach
    - Selvala's Stampede
    - Sensei's Divining Top
    - Dragonlord Atarka

    How has Eureka been performing for you? Typically those two cards go hand in hand, except Show and Tell is more versatile since it's more playable in your typical Reanimator deck. It'd seem weird to me if Eureka is performing well but not Show and Tell.

    Normally I'd say listen to your playgroup. If you don't believe in the card yourself, then yeah, just cut it. But if you do believe in the card, it's up to you to educate both yourself and your playgroup (either through explaining it to them or showing them how beastly the card it is in practice). Again, it's a card with inherent risk, so of course it'll blow up in your face from time to time, and that's usually what people remember it from.

    If you haven't done so, I'd highly recommend to check out my podcast episode on Cheaty Face in cube. I have a lot of my own personal 3-0 lists to reference from and a spreadsheet breaking down a lot of the ratio of colors / key cards used in the 3-0 decks listed.

    Podcast: https://theartofcube.podbean.com/e/episode-6-supporting-and-drafting-cheaty-face-in-cube/

    My own 3-0 Cheaty Face decks within the past 2 years: https://imgur.com/a/hPjTpEt

    Spreadsheet breakdown of 3-0 decks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qLFkXQOmIYdXmq3O7bHnM9FGQhxJovs5ONqilgQeFkI/edit?usp=sharing

    Sorry, I should have been more clear. We cut it long ago, and used to run a lot of those enablers. I'll never run Top again though because it just makes games take SO. LONG. when certain players have it (same with scroll rack). I actually have run Atarka until after the pandemic started. It's only pulled for now because I'm testing companions (with RAW not the errata) when we eventually get back to playing, and didn't have enough data on Domri v Xenagos to be absolutely certain that xenagos is who I'm sticking with (although I'm 90% of the way there), and I like bloodbraid more as a card since it's a more unique effect than Atarka.

    The reason show and tell didn't perform was because if the other person put in an answer, or had one on their turn, it was really bad for you. Eureka gets around that by letting you put multiple threats into play and letting you put PW's into play, where you get to get first crack, unlike creatures. Generally Eureka has made it's way into either the green super ramp decks or the channel/sneak decks as alternate paths to victory. It never felt like the reanimator decks needed it because there are so many enablers that can't backfire so spectacularly. The only deck I actually liked Show and Tell in was the tinker decks as an alternate line that didn't need a second color, but that wasn't enough for me to want to keep it in the cube.

    Perusing your imgur links, those look basically identical to the decks we make in this archetype (except that we don't have show and tell and through the breach).

    Edit - Also eureka is just more fun IMO, but that's not that useful for analysis.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Show and Tell
    Quote from wtwlf123 »
    Quote from asmallcat »
    Everyone in my group agreed show and tell was bad and we should cut it.

    Then cut it. I would never dream of doing that, because the card's been a blast to play and a complete powerhouse, but why debate it? If you and your playgroup hate it, stop cubing with it.

    Oh we cut it forever ago. I was just saying everyone agreed it should be cut when I brought it up.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Show and Tell
    Quote from calibretto »

    If I go turn three Show and Tell and put in any 6+ casting cost creature from the cube, that will almost assuredly win me the game

    Maybe it's the group I play with but this is not remotely my experience with the card. You play your fatty, they play an o-ring or man o' war or shriekmaw and laugh at you. Or they just play their 5-drop curve topper 2 turns early for free, untap and kill your fatty. Or they play a mana rock, untap and wrath. Or you ARE against the other deck playing fatties and they get first crack.

    Everyone in my group agreed show and tell was bad and we should cut it. I dunno if it's confirmation bias my way, confirmation bias by people who love the card, different experiences with size of draft pool (we almost always have 8 or 6 so there's a good chance at least one other drafter is doing something with fatties - I imagine this is far less likely if the average group size is 5 or less), a difference in cube size (at 465 there's almost always the pieces for at least one big deck, usually two), or a little bit of all of this, but it's fascinating how different our experiences with the card were.

    This makes me wish both that MTGO cube draft was still in pods (although I understand why almost all players enjoy leagues - it seems like such a better experience time wise) and that WOTC hadn't decided to hide much of the data from MTGO. It used to be that you could get basically all the data you wanted and I remember articles talking about win rates after casting certain cards in various draft formats. I'd love to see that for cube, but that data is no longer accessible AFAIK.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Show and Tell
    Quote from wtwlf123 »
    7/10 times I play an effect like this, the permanent I put into play with it wins me the game. Maybe another 20% of the time the opponent can answer it and it's not game-winning. Rarely, likely less than 1/10 times the card is played, do I wind up in a worse position because of what my opponent puts onto the battlefield with it.

    I'd be pretty shocked if show and tell had a 70% win rate after being cast. That would put it on par with power I would think, or cards that cost 7+ mana. I also think these stats fail to take a couple things into account - the times your stranded with Show and Tell in hand and no fatty, or vice versa, or how much you have to warp your deck to make something like show and tell good, meaning that the times your opponent does have an answer (any O-ring, any man-o-war, any nekrataal, one of the green creatures that kills an artifact if that's your play, or untap into an answer) they've often shut down your main line of play for the game and you'll have a hard time recovering. Yeah, you play fatty, they play answer, you got 2-for-1'ed, doesn't seem that devastating on its face but now you need to find more combo pieces.

    Edit - I guess I can actually see a 70% win percentage for show and tell, since you wouldn't cast it unless you were pretty confident it would win you the game, but I'd be curious as to the win % for game where you draw show and tell (whether you cast it or not).
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [M21][CUBE] Sublime Epiphany
    Quote from Breathe1234 »

    Arcane Savant has been problematic with a tucked Nexus of Fate in a Flicker deck already ...

    The only reason I still feel comfortable running Savant is because we don't run any of the time warp variants, so the most broken thing it can be is a 5-mana repeatable upheaval, which don't get me wrong is bonkers, but generally speaking if the upheaval deck gets to resolve upheaval the way it wants to it usually wins anyway. But it's WAY to easy to go infinite with Savant and time warps if you run them.

    I also think I will test this card is it's fun and not an embarrassing power level, but I also have not played cube since the beginning of March (none of my regular group is in-house and the various programs are just so annoying to use). So many new cards added since then! I need to CUBE!
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Show and Tell
    I ran show and tell for years and it was almost always bad. Not being able to put PW's into play is a huge drawback, as is the large amount of permanent-based answers that your oppnent can have, AS is your opponent not only getting the first use of the permanent they put into play but an entire turn to answer whatever you did. Sure, it's great against aggro decks but all decks putting fatties into play are. This is further compounded by the fact that we support reanimator, super ramp, and artifact decks, meaning there's a good chance at least 1 other deck at the table has a big thing to put into play.

    Oath of druids is a different beast because it's cheaper, and if you build your deck right it's not symmetrical. The chance of you getting screwed by your opponent is much lower. Additionally, both super ramp and reanimator often use small creatures as part of their gameplan (elves, looters, and discard outlets) so it isn't weak to the same decks that show and tell is.

    Eureka benefits massively from being able to put PW's into play letting you get value immediately - a huge reason Eureka works is cause you get to put an Ugin or Karn or Nicol Bolas into play and kill their biggest thing. You also often have more threats than they have answers, so it doesn't matter if they have one O-ring if you dropped 3 things into play. You also can get your opponent if they try to save their answer by passing until they have the most information by you passing after putting 2 things into play or whatever. It's much easier to break the symmetry with Eureka than with Show and Tell.

    Oath and Eureka are fun, unique cards that are powerful enough to warrant their inclusion in cubes. While Show and Tell is fun, it proved itself too weak in our cube, and so cutting it was right. Maybe in cubes that are smaller and support less decks putting big stuff into play, but in our cube it won the game for the caster only a small minority of the time and was worse than basically every other way of getting fatties into play.

    Sneak Attack and Through the Breach are obviously different animals (and more akin to the tinker, channel, and reanimate decks IMO) as they aren't a symmetrical effect, so I don't think they're good points of comparison.

    Edit - and I do think LSV is unfairly harsh on Eureka (for the reasons listed above), but I don't play MTGO at all so he could very well be right that it's awful in that format.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [JMP] [CUBE] Release the Dogs

    I’m struggling to see how Release the Dogs is anything like Triplicate Spirits.

    Well, they are both sorceries that make tokens...

    My main point in comparing them (and battle screech, but that was already brought up) is that there are a lot of ways to get 3 or 4 flying 1/1's in white for around 4 mana if you jump through some hoops, and I think 3 flying 1/1's is basically always better than 4 ground 1/1's. I mean, spectral procession is almost always 4 mana at most, and it is way better than this, and it's a marginal card nowadays (I run it but only because I support RW tokens, I wouldn't otherwise).
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [JMP] [CUBE] Release the Dogs
    Hell is this even that much better than triplicate spirits? That's a card very few cubes are playing.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Set (P)review - My top 20 Magic 2021 (M21) cards for the cube!
    Quote from opterown »
    Always a highlight of spoiler season!

    Posted in: Articles, Podcasts, and Guides
  • posted a message on [JMP][CUBE] Emiel the Blessed
    Quote from jamis »
    I'm having a hard time evaluating this one. It wasn't too long ago that I was running Crystal Shard, and this is much more efficient than Crystal Shard. But I think all the Blink I'm currently running is better than this. I don't think I have room for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if this plays better than it looks.

    Is it though? The beauty of shard was that on 4 you could bounce an opponent's creature when they didn't leave mana up, and they had to leave 1 mana up for the rest of the game. Also, you could save your guys from removal for a single mana which was great. Finally, as an artifact, the cards that killed shard were much more limited. This card can't save itself so if it's actually important to your deck it will just eat removal a fair amount of the time, and if it's not doing that much it's pretty easy to ignore.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [JMP] [CUBE] Release the Dogs
    It's way worse than Sram's expertise IMO. Yeah, it's better when you top deck it in the late game with no hand, but Sram's letting you cast an anthem off it, or one of the many playable 3cmc PW's, or a value creature, etc is fantastic. Also the tokens being artifacts matters occasionally, whereas dogs will only ever be dogs.

    If you run Honor of the Pure or have some kind of white pumping subtheme in your cube, maybe you'd want this, but since Sram's is already a borderline card, I have no interest in this.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
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