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- MasterFlex
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Member for 11 years, 2 months, and 16 days
Last active Sun, May, 31 2015 13:26:58
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- 229 Total Posts
- 32 Thanks
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Sep 17, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW MidrangeThanks. If the name continues to be well received, I'll unify it across the primer before we roll it out.Posted in: MasterFlex -
Sep 17, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW MidrangeGreat recommendations. I'll roll them in!Posted in: MasterFlex
I agree about the Hawks, btw. They have value, but I think sculler is really the better choice. There's been chatter about them on the current thread, so I'll throw them a bone. -
Jun 19, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW Token PrimerBitterblossom is listed as an alternative token generator.Posted in: MasterFlex
BB trades immediate board impact for gradual dominance. It takes 3 turns (and 3 life) to produce as much as a spectral procession. In the early game, that's great, but in the mid to late game, that's not good. Couple that with the loss of life, while keeping in mind we also play shocklands, fetch lands, and thoughtseize, and BB can do as much to kill ourselves as our opponents. That's why it's not a core card.
It has been played successfully. I think (he can correct me if I'm wrong) Jango555 plays a BB list. -
Jun 19, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW Token PrimerAll good suggestions, Thanks!Posted in: MasterFlex
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Jun 19, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW Token PrimerThanks for the feedback! I fixed the spoilers (I never meant to remove then, but apparently if you mis-type a tag with this many tags on the page, you break them all). That "preview" button has become my best friend, lol.Posted in: MasterFlex
I'll update the matchups, and add Oring, fulminator mage, and pithing needle as sideboard options. -
Jun 19, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW Token Primer*Edit* I fixed the spoiler tagsPosted in: MasterFlex
I'll re-write the core-creatures section to clarify that you don't need 3 Brimaz (or even 3 Hero). As I see it, you want to start with a hero/brimaz type of creature, and then grab a few from the "alternatives" section. Those provide a way to adapt to meta/personal play style.
I agree that Zealous Persecution should be added back to the event decklist (probably -2 doom blade, -1 anthem), and the 3 creatures should be an either/or. I leaned toward Brimaz because he's in Standard, but you are correct, Hero is better bang for the buck.
Good recommendation on not over extending, I'll add it to the advice section. Since we don't really draw, it is smart to only produce tokens as needed to win.
A featured deck list option is a good idea. It may get canned if there is not enough decks placing (or I can't keep up with it). -
Jun 18, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW Token PrimerNot sure what I did, but the spoiler tags are not working.Posted in: MasterFlex
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Jun 17, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on BW Token PrimerPosted in: MasterFlexQuote from Jango555 »I absolutely think Zealous Persecution is a core card...I would never play less then three copies in the main.
also I think that Tidehollow Sculler should be in the main deck section...maybe that is just personal opinion, but I think it is a key part of the deck even of you chose not to run him
Thanks for the work you put into this! We really needed to restart this thread...
Let me know if anything in particular sounds too bias. I want to be pretty neutral, but I'm not a pro-writer, so it's tough.
I'm keeping sculler in the alternatives for now. He's pretty controversial and we've spent a TON of time hammering his role down. As I put it, "skuller always risks being situational, which is why I list him as an alternative to Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek"
Quote from krimsonviper »
A few things I would change:
The second sentence in section 2 has "cards cards." Might want to fix that typo.
I would also say what amounts of each card to be considered for the deck, I.E. 2-4 Hero of Bladehold. Do not include any budget suggestions. Budget suggestions should be addressed as "we do not address budgeting" either verbally or just by not mentioning it. Allowing this can throw the deck thread of course. There's a budget forum for a reason. Though I know this is annoying having to point people into it's direction, it derails the fundamentals. In the MUs section, please include Burn, UWR Midrange, Gr Tron, all versions of Twin, UR Storm, and the mirror. Less "spoilers." I know it makes the thread nice and clean, but having to click on every single piece of the primer to read gets tiresome. Remove Zealous Persecution from the pictures at the top and maybe replace it with an actual core card. Having it there makes readers believe it's a core card when it's not.
Thanks for the feedback! Ultimately, the deck has TONS of optional cards, and I aim to address as many as possible, as almost all questions are "can I use this/what works in ____ match?". Can you think of ANY cards I failed to mention? I could probably throw a bone to Worship.
I fixed the typo, and scrubbed every use of the word "budget" (which I did only twice, actually). I understand the budget rule, but have never liked it, especially for a lower tier deck that I personally built due to budget. Anyway, that's a different topic.
Back on the subject of the prier: Zealous Persecution stays in the "Core" list, but I will use a different picture up top (mainly because I'm not a fan of the art). It is consistently recommended by the pro's, and appears in successful decklists.
I'll update the matches.
Can you recommend cards against Tron? I've honestly never played them.
I'll try cutting a few spoilers. Part of what they do is put heading info in the raw text of the spoiler. This thing is damn long, so having clear subdivisions is needed to make maintaining easier.
I did start off writing the number of each card you should play in the deck, but found that I was basically just telling people to build my deck (which isn't really right). Next, I listed a range, but found myself almost always typing "0-4", so instead, I listed amounts by category. I have gone back and added notes next to cards that are a mandatory 4x (lingering souls, etc).
Please be critical now, it's better to make modifications with the watchful eyes of a core group, then with the view of the whole forum. -
Feb 17, 2014
MasterFlex posted a message on Standard DecksHere's the decklist, since it didn't publish for some reason.Posted in: MasterFlex
Jund MonstersMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Arbor Colossus
2 Kalonian Hydra
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
Instants/Sorc
1 Hero's Downfall
3 DreadboreWalkers
3 Domri Rade
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Malic
4 Stomping Ground
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Forest
2 Mountain
1 SwampSideboard
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Golgari Charm
2 Bow of Nylea
3 Unravel the Aether
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Gruul Charm
To finish the deck, I still need: 2 temples of malice, 2 mizzium mortars, 1 golgari charm
Need: 1 Scourge, 1 Nykthos, 1 stormbreath (puts my total count to 4), 2 legion's initiative (if I like it)
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Right now, BW Tokens barely has a strong enough record to merit a forum, none the less multiple for each flavor of the deck. Unfortunately, the purpose of the thread is to distill the ideal decklist, which is practically impossible with such high variance. I knew that variance was (and will continue to be) a concern when I wrote the primer. As such, I believe the thread should focus on card choices, and when they are better/worse than alternatives. Until we have more representation in dailies, premiers, and other note worthy events, discussing the sub variants of the deck is a never ending, circular conversation.
# card name
[ /deck ]
Remove the spaces in [ deck ] and you're in business. You can also type out the deck, highlight the list, and click the "Deck" button in your editing tool bar. Here's what it looks like done. If you hit the "quote" button, you can see what I've done to your list.
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
2 Isolated Chapel
1 Fetid Heath
2 Tectonic Edge
5 Plains
4 Swamp
Creatures
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Blade Splicer
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Restoration Angel
2 Hero of Bladehold
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Night's Whisper
1 Victim of Night
4 Path to Exile
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
2 Sundering Growth
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Batterskull
1 Doom Blade
1 Wrath of God
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Zealous Persecution
Thanks for the tourney report!
Here's my advice on the deck. Leave Windbrisk in for now. With the walkers and large creatures you run, it can create some super crazy plays. If it starts to feel like a dead card, take it out. I'd try to get the Ghost Quarters into the main. You have a ton of fetches and duals. Having two more colorless sources shouldn't put you back. That gives you room for an extra RIP and Rule of Law in the side (more help for that storm match).
On a personal note, my meta has storm, living end, and affinity. I pack 3 RIP's and 2 Rule of Law effects sideboard, as well as 2 Engineered Explosives in my main (hits ascension, and goblin electromancer at X = 2), so I've yet to loose a match to Storm.
I added the article to the primer. I also would not run Fateful Hour. I'm surprised she didn't mention Timely Reinforcements. While it competes with the 3cmc slot, if you're trying to tilt the deck against delver, you should be able to hit both modes easily.
To tag a deck, type your cards in the format # card, like such:
4 card
3 next card
4 etc
To give the different parts of the deck titles (like "creatures") just write a word with no # in front), for example:
Sideboard
3 side card
After you have typed everything in, highlight the list, then click the "deck" icon in the forum's formatting bar. You can also manually write the deck tags around a block of text by typing [ d e c k ] start, and ending [ / d e c k ] (just remove the spaces). Also, use the heading "sideboard" last, as the deck tag tool automatically makes that its own column.
@Everyone, thanks for all the reports! Everything we do here is pure speculation without reports.
As for the deck, I think negate style permission isn't what we want. We tap out often to play creatures and tokens. Holding up mana for a counter sounds tough, and it can't deal with a threat already on the table like a path or doom blade can. I also think if you should run a blue draw, it has to be treasure cruise (although military intelligence does look very solid).
You should have at least 1 swamp. Ghost Quarter and Blood Moon are a thing, besides, fetching a shockland for a turn 1 thoughtseize is a big no no.
Manaless is fun to play due to it completely shattering all regular magic conventions. No land, always on the draw, wins with creatures, but never casts them. My manaless list runs 61 cards in the main because I'm gonna flip the whole deck anyway. It also shrugs of most attempts from your opponent to directly interact (outside of graveyard hate). It's pretty fun to watch jund turn 1 drs, turn 2 Liliana, and realize she has no relevant abilities against us. Unfortunately, if you play at a lgs regularly, you will get hated out. It's a great way to start, but LED has more overall game.
I'm not a fan of packing 2x everything in the side. We have some really powerful sideboard cards, and it sucks to put them in, then not draw them. For an IQ, if you're winning, bet on playing against a few of the big name decks (pod, Jund, Twin, and UWR Control), as well as the cheaper, more popular decks (burn, storm, affinity, and now, Delver). Other note worthy decks are Tron, Scapeshift, living end and Amulet of Vigor. They will probably make an appearance, but will you actually be matched against one? Maybe, but less likely than the others I mentioned. I wouldn't worry about Death and Taxes, Elves or similar small name decks (they're really for local game shop play). With that in mind, I'd recommend the follow as a must:
From there, I'd finish out with
Other strong suggestions include defense grid (anti control and delver), Chalice of the Void (set at 1 hoses boggles), and Engineered Explosives (boggles, affinity mainly, but can hit other targets).
I also recommend tilting your main against burn. Finding room for Timely Reinforcements I think would be a good idea. I also like to run EE in my main. Hitting Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Guide, a crap ton of artifacts, goyf, scooze, and bob (just to name a few) sounds like solid mainboard tech at a big event.
I was wondering the same thing... The Dread Return Package only has Ashen Rider and Iona (no Elesh Norn or Griselbrand), only 2 firestorms and 2 crypts. The rest of the side is dedicated to playing Abrupt Decay (I'm guessing that's goal of the extra land and petals). I get that decay can't be countered, but is that worth neutering the rest of the side?
The 5cmc shouldn't detract from Tirel. We have 3 and 2cmc drops for days. We're not trying to curve into her, we'll just play her when need be.
I've always wanted Beckon Apparition to be good, but it just doesn't get there. One spell for 1 1/1 is counter to our primary deck philosophy of multiple creatures per spell. Additionally, I don't think removing a single card is worth our time. If they really need the grave, we can RiP it.
I've had trouble with only 22 land in the past. The scullers are iffy. While they keep burn and UWR control from lighting bolting your face, they don't synergize with the intangible virtue (which you need because of Sorin). I also recommend getting your kill spells (dismember) into the main. I think our sideboard gets stretched thin fast, and it's better to side out kill rather than in. Finally, I'd give Elspeth Tirel a run over Knight-Errant.
I'll use my list in the primer for an example. Out deck has a few flex spots. First is the targeted kill spells. Against a deck like amulet of vigor that runs 8 creatures, you don't need much, so take them out. Next, if you run extra land (like me) to support tech edge, that's another flex spot. I don't need them against twin or storm, so I can side them out for torpor orb or rest in peace. Next are the planeswalkers. I think they mainly benefit us in control and midrange matchups. For agro, like affinity, I'd rather have stony silence. So those are the main areas you can remove cards. What to remove is situational, and will require your best judgement.
Tl:dr - anthems, token generators, and discard are the core. Leave that alone, and trim other cards as needed.