Okay, I lied, I'm responding one more time because I LOVE the response above from Fires, and wanted to do more than upvote!
I think all of that logic and evaluation is sound, and I absolutely see where you're coming from. I think we have different expectations for the mechanic as a whole. For example, I expect many of these cards to see constructed play all the way from Standard down to Legacy. They all won't, just like all magic cards don't, but many will. Thank you so much for outlining your expectations, beliefs, and evaluations so clearly. I really appreciated it!
I just believe these cards change the game significantly. And I will happily admit I'm wrong if proven otherwise.
Cheers! And for anybody else who stays in the discussion, enjoy
- Fires
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ryansaxe posted a message on [CUBE] Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool ShorePosted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Squandered Resources is far more versatile and has strong (even busted) interactions with lots of my favorite Cube Cards, namely those that blow up all the lands. Resources into Balance, Death Cloud, Jokulhaups or Wildfires is hilarious and super powerful, the main problem is making the mana work. I used to run it in my Cube but ultimately decided to cut it as I wasn't supporting Storm (which is another deck it would be good in), making it a little too narrow for my tastes.
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- The 'you get both' aspect of manlands and utility lands continues to be significantly undervalued, imo. These cards are often actual sources of card advantage because you don't have to choose (see Shelldock Isle). You make land drops, trade resources with the opponent, and parity is eventually broken because your lands still do something relevant. These new dual types can only mirror part of that, making them significantly worse in a lot of scenarios.
- I think most would agree that save a few exceptions, the spell sides of these dual type cards aren't really cubable because they are not powerful enough (and obviously not the land part by itself either). Thus the power present in the card comes solely from the flexibility, the increase in keepable hands, the mitigating the risk of flooding out. But will including cards like these in your deck lead to more wins? Not necessarily. You'll keep more hands, and also play more monocolored tapped lands and overcosted spells, which are real costs well proven to lose games.
- There is actual precedent for these cards (or pretty damn close to it), and I don't really understand the aversion to compare the two. Lonely Sandbar is either a tapped Island, or a Reach Through Mists. Yes, you lose Island synergy and it doesn't count as a spell, which makes it a little worse (though you do get the actually great Loam interaction). Reach Through Mists is overcosted by 1 to be cubable, a tax I've seen here advertised as reasonable. Who runs Lonely Sandbar? I actually really like the card, but a tapped Island instead of an untapped one is such a huge liability that they don't make it.
- This part comes more down to how you look at Cube as a format. I think of my Cube as a way of drafting things that look like Constructed decks, where others have described Cube as closer to retail Limited with nothing but Bombs. I just can't see these cards making waves in the formats I mirror my Cube to, Modern and Legacy. Decks are crazy consistent, and efficiency is king. This is what I want for my Cube, and I know others don't want that, but it explains why these double types will likely never make it in my Cube (save those where the spell side is Constructed worthy by itself). They simply can't play an essential role in the decks I try to draft, these slick Constructed-like killing machines.
- Similar to my last point, in Limited consistency is worth a lot. In Constructed I feel you have to actually do something powerful, and games end way more often with one player holding a bunch of irrelevant cards. I've found especially in recent years that board advantage is crucial in Cube (power creep and especially planeswalkers have contributed to this), and to get board advantage you need to be fast, or strong. These cards are neither, as they are always slow (tapped or overcosted) and the spell side is weak by design.
I've found this whole discussion somewhat frustrating as I seem pretty fully convinced of my side of it, and it looks like the other side feels the same way. Maybe my Cube (and how I think about Cube in general) has evolved in a completely different direction, and therefore I operate with a different set of values. Nonetheless I think there's some value in trying to explain why I think these cards aren't nearly as good as advertised by some, simply because it's the opposite viewpoint compared to that shared by many.
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Temur Energy: https://deckstats.net/decks/1121/926989-casual-cube-constructed-temur-/en
Esper Dragons: https://deckstats.net/decks/1121/925647-casual-cube-constructed-esper-/en
I wrote other ideas for decks like these down, and I'm sure some or all of them could also work in a Jumpstart setting:
Turboland
Enchantress
Eldrazi
Ninjas
Goblins
Soul Sisters
Threshold
Delirium
Devotion (any color really)
Morphs
Nic Fit Rector
Death's Shadow
Domain
Taking Turns
Turbofog
Mardu Warriors
Bant Spirits
...
The possibilities are endless!
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Edit: Forgot about Falkenrath Aristocrat, mostly because it's so bonkers I assumed it was already in most Cubes (similar to Greater Gargadon)! This is one of the best Rakdos cards in general, I'll run it in any Rakdos deck that has enough creatures but it's particularly insane in this shell.
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