Why so much Devour Flesh? Tribute and Liliana are pretty much 100% better for us here. That one extra turn your kill just bought your opponent lets them topdeck Thundermaw one more time.
Ran my list some more today against a friend (my list is back on page 1, with a couple tweaks since then) and went 3-0 vs Rakdos Aggro and 1-1 against a UR tempo deck. Some things of note:
Quirion Dryad: Ran really well, and is a little stupid when you have 3x Unsummon in hand to bounce their guys and get in for more damage. When he had kill spells I had Rapid Hybridization to get a 3/3 out of the deal.
Rancor: Running two seems great - not sure about more as there's few enough creatures.
Simic Charm: I was really high on this card, now I'm lukewarm about it...may cut one or all, though I still like the versatility it offers.
Duskmantle Seer: He's my finisher and he finishes nicely. Something to be aware of though...he's a vampire. Don't drop him if Olivia is hanging around on the other side! (Turning her into a 3/3 Frog-Lizard solves that problem)
Nivmagus Elemental: He's not in the deck... I just traded for a couple to complete my playset, so I do want to try him alongside Dryad. Seems good. (Seems being the key word there...hence the testing to come soon.)
Delver/Mayor: I don't run them, but I'm sure they're quite reasonable. Not gonna argue against them, that's just a preference call on my part, subject to change without notice.
Must play more!
olivia resolved is how i got knocked out during top 8 at the scg iq. i had no answer, jund midrange at 7 life with olivia in play. me with duskmantle in hand and 20 life. i played it, hoping that seer getting stolen would draw me into a> more damage to him than his life could support before i died...or b> an unsummon/snapcaster(to unsummon from gy their olivia and then swing with seer)
needless to say, we both got duskmantle land procs first, so he swung for 7, then next time, i drew a land and he drew whatever(nothing enough to ping him hard), swung for 7 again, then he killed me next turn. that's what happens when you gamble.. i shoulda held the seer till i had a way to hate the olivia. still had 3 unsummons in deck somewhere and a few snaps left, but oh well.
that deck was just U/B though. bug now helps some, more all around answers. and i'm s/b rapid hybridizations and devour fleshes for things like olivia
I sure wish Spell Snare was in standard, burning-tree emissary been kickin my butt when im on the draw all day today. The tempo that card provides is prty insane, anyone have anything for it? Any time I won it was because I could stick a mayor and pass the turn and use removal all on their turn.
After further testing in a daily and a cple of 2 mans, the RGx aggro deck is widely popular. Basically played only vs Rx aggro and UWR, always goign to g3 and all games being very close (unless you gt nut drawed while on the draw).
I feel like we should have the option to go to 4 dispels, being able to counter rev, spear, bc is prty crucial (negates may be better so you can hit pillar and mortars/pike if they play those)
I have been finding that vs most decks, aggro, midrange, and control that I can easily get them down to under 8 life and a lot of the times under 4 but then run out of gas and flood out/top decks not being able to have enough impact. I personally love seer, but im not sure if he fits. When this deck is ahead its def in the driver seat, you can control the board and stack easily. However, if your in top deck mode and behind its tough to get back in it without a few lucky draws (removal spell followed by a threat etc). Seer is great when your ahead (i dont think we need that, i like to keep mana open and stay ahead in stead of casting it) and is prty bad when your behind and would mean we would have to add land to the deck (i flood out enough as is running 20 lands)
Im afraid to take spells out of the deck (many of the games i win are on the back of delver just blind flipping), but a miser pike seems like it could do some work (wish we could run moorland haunt).
I dont want to splash white for souls or moorland haunt, but is there something equivalent in BUG colors that can generate something to pike up easily, as well as being able to flip delver? We just need something that gives us some late game reach if we run out of cards.
the only things in bug colors that i can think of would be beckon apparition..but that messes with your deathrites(which imo should hopefully be the ones to give you the reach you need when the game stalls out with opponent at low life) or maybe hydroform for an extra 3/3 flyer? but it doesn't stick around. and if it dies, you lose a land. so meh.
i personally am a big fan of seer's, even if they are immediately sided out game 2 against alot of aggressive decks(read: red based aggro). but I also don't run pikes in my build anymore, either so I don't have anything cheap to pike up and go.
So I guess Spell Rupture is also better off in a bant deck?
yeah, i think so. i only once got spell rupture to work like i hoped, and that was a turn one delver, turn two blind flip delver off of the spell rupture. that made it a mana leak, more often than not rupture was a dead card. i don't run it anymore...my bugdelv atm is running 4 dimir charms, 2 dispels, 1 syncopate for counters. hold on, new to these forums, lemme look up how to make a decklist and i'll post my current setup
So do you guys think without Bias (hopefully) Bant-Delver or BUG-Delver is better?
i prefer BUG delver, dimir charm is useful, even if i rarely used it for flipping my delvers(seriously, hard counter sorcery or blast 2 powers off the map was used 3:1 for flipping delvers) the first place at that scg iq was running a bant delver..and i think geist and the quirion dryads were far bigger players than delver for him anyways.(i know he once had his dryad up to 8/8 or something like that against his round 2 finals opponent). hands of binding cipher grows your dryad as well.
i personally feel the removal packages from black are far more useful, especially in such a creature heavy/fast meta. abrupt decay is just insane. destroys a very large portion of the relevant early game threats. it zero drawback destroys mr. boros reckoner as well, who we all know by now is a pet favorite of aggro decks
that was my list, i lost in round one of the finals 'cause i had zero answer for a resolved olivia voldaren(save unsummon). I also made a ton of bad plays earlier that lost me a few games(lol keep 1 land hand 'cause island delver and unsummon multiples!) I've since added green splash for abrupt decays and simic charms(devour flesh in side board for hexproof/olivia hate). deck feels alot stronger so far, still needs alot of testing.
also want to test the red splash for reach/removal and maybe a white splash variant for geist/az charm/orz charms...but I dunno, i feel the esper color scheme opens up so many strong options it's better to go slightly more midrange with resto's and such, making delver a less than desirable card. it will be last resort if i feel BUg isn't doing it.
p.s., that top 8 finish I got to dimir charm eot to put craterhoof on the opponents topdeck, then let duskmantle trigger ping the guy for 7. then swung with dusky for lethal. I <3 duskmantle, though he does get sided out against alot of aggro(mayors in my board atm are the current side strat, it was nighthawks before)
this is my list from last weekend at a small scg iq. i went U/B delver at that due to not being sure how well the blue/black shell would run, and I've since gone BUG with the build(which was my main intention from the get go, just started simple to see what the deck was lacking)
basically splashed green and added mayor of averbrucks(1 main, 3 side. to swap the 3 duskmantles against anything too low curve, giving your RDW opponent more burn = sadface). then 3 simic charms, and four abrupt decays. cut out the pikes and added a third drite shaman(seriuosly, this card is a powerhouse). golgari charms in the board to help against removal heavy.
the deck runs fairly well now, still needs lots of testing, but it's definately fun. and yes, in that scg iq i did get to live the dream of eot dimir charm opponent at 9 life, throw two cards in their yard, and leave craterhoof behemoth on top for the duskmantle trigger. made my day
1b casting cost.
Lili is more of a bug control card not tempo.
olivia resolved is how i got knocked out during top 8 at the scg iq. i had no answer, jund midrange at 7 life with olivia in play. me with duskmantle in hand and 20 life. i played it, hoping that seer getting stolen would draw me into a> more damage to him than his life could support before i died...or b> an unsummon/snapcaster(to unsummon from gy their olivia and then swing with seer)
needless to say, we both got duskmantle land procs first, so he swung for 7, then next time, i drew a land and he drew whatever(nothing enough to ping him hard), swung for 7 again, then he killed me next turn.
that deck was just U/B though. bug now helps some, more all around answers. and i'm s/b rapid hybridizations and devour fleshes for things like olivia
the only things in bug colors that i can think of would be beckon apparition..but that messes with your deathrites(which imo should hopefully be the ones to give you the reach you need when the game stalls out with opponent at low life) or maybe hydroform for an extra 3/3 flyer? but it doesn't stick around. and if it dies, you lose a land. so meh.
i personally am a big fan of seer's, even if they are immediately sided out game 2 against alot of aggressive decks(read: red based aggro). but I also don't run pikes in my build anymore, either so I don't have anything cheap to pike up and go.
Mainly cause I wanted to try mayors first lol. I got dryads to try as well if I dislike mayors.
yeah, i think so. i only once got spell rupture to work like i hoped, and that was a turn one delver, turn two blind flip delver off of the spell rupture. that made it a mana leak, more often than not rupture was a dead card. i don't run it anymore...my bugdelv atm is running 4 dimir charms, 2 dispels, 1 syncopate for counters. hold on, new to these forums, lemme look up how to make a decklist and i'll post my current setup
edit. adding my current deck list
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Mayor of averbruck
4 snapcaster mage
3 duskmantle seer
2 dispel
1 syncopate
3 thought score
4 unsummon
4 abrupt decay
4 dimir charm
3 simic charm
2 think twice
2 ultimate price
4 drowned catacomb
1 hinterland harbor
2 island
3 overgrown tomb
1 swamp
4 watery grave
1 woodland cemetary
3 appetite for brains
2 rapid hybridization
1 tragic slip
2 devour flesh
4 golgari charm
3 mayor of averbruck
i prefer BUG delver, dimir charm is useful, even if i rarely used it for flipping my delvers(seriously, hard counter sorcery or blast 2 powers off the map was used 3:1 for flipping delvers) the first place at that scg iq was running a bant delver..and i think geist and the quirion dryads were far bigger players than delver for him anyways.(i know he once had his dryad up to 8/8 or something like that against his round 2 finals opponent). hands of binding cipher grows your dryad as well.
i personally feel the removal packages from black are far more useful, especially in such a creature heavy/fast meta. abrupt decay is just insane. destroys a very large portion of the relevant early game threats. it zero drawback destroys mr. boros reckoner as well, who we all know by now is a pet favorite of aggro decks
that was my list, i lost in round one of the finals 'cause i had zero answer for a resolved olivia voldaren(save unsummon). I also made a ton of bad plays earlier that lost me a few games(lol keep 1 land hand 'cause island delver and unsummon multiples!) I've since added green splash for abrupt decays and simic charms(devour flesh in side board for hexproof/olivia hate). deck feels alot stronger so far, still needs alot of testing.
also want to test the red splash for reach/removal and maybe a white splash variant for geist/az charm/orz charms...but I dunno, i feel the esper color scheme opens up so many strong options it's better to go slightly more midrange with resto's and such, making delver a less than desirable card. it will be last resort if i feel BUg isn't doing it.
p.s., that top 8 finish I got to dimir charm eot to put craterhoof on the opponents topdeck, then let duskmantle trigger ping the guy for 7. then swung with dusky for lethal. I <3 duskmantle, though he does get sided out against alot of aggro(mayors in my board atm are the current side strat, it was nighthawks before)
this is my list from last weekend at a small scg iq. i went U/B delver at that due to not being sure how well the blue/black shell would run, and I've since gone BUG with the build(which was my main intention from the get go, just started simple to see what the deck was lacking)
basically splashed green and added mayor of averbrucks(1 main, 3 side. to swap the 3 duskmantles against anything too low curve, giving your RDW opponent more burn = sadface). then 3 simic charms, and four abrupt decays. cut out the pikes and added a third drite shaman(seriuosly, this card is a powerhouse). golgari charms in the board to help against removal heavy.
the deck runs fairly well now, still needs lots of testing, but it's definately fun. and yes, in that scg iq i did get to live the dream of eot dimir charm opponent at 9 life, throw two cards in their yard, and leave craterhoof behemoth on top for the duskmantle trigger. made my day