IMHO...I'd run fabricate over gifts until you really know both this deck, and modern in general inside and out.
Gifts is a tough card to play. It's an amazing card, but it's very difficult to know when to play it and what to pick with it.
I just think you'll be better off using fabricate until you've got a solid understanding of this deck. Once you know this deck inside and out, you'll be better prepared to know exactly what you should be doing with gifts.
This is of course just my opinion.
Dope. Okay. I also want to know why your threat creatures are so limited? Is it because the Meta? I remember when my friend used to play MTG back in the day and Midslaver decks were top tier. The decks were very similar except one would run Myr Retriever instead of Academy Ruins and their boss creature was Darksteel Colossus. I don't see Blightsteel in this deck, nor other big artifact creatures.
Academy Ruins sets up the Mindslaver Lock that we proudly strike fear into our opponents with., since it's something which lets you say "I win, next game please" once it resolves. We hinge upon the control plan, where we durdle around and react to our opponent's permanents and spells until we set up Tron or have enough Islands swim in. After that we can tutor up our win conditions with Treasure Mage and Fabricate, whichever you prefer to run. Our win conditions consist mostly of:
Platinum Angel: Last ditch OH ***** I'M ALMOST DEAD button you hit to catch your opponent by surprise. Sundering Titan: Does your opponent want to cast spells? Too bad, not his choice, as you proceed to wreak havoc on his manabase. Wurmcoil Engine: Cos a 6/6 Lifelink/Deathtouch creature that gives birth to MORE Lifelink/Deathtouch creatures is totally not disgusting. Batterskull: 4/4, gains you life, doesn't die, and is hilarious when equipped on a Sundering Titan. Mindslaver: Why did my opponent just Grapeshot himself for lethal?
These are generally more than enough threats to dump in the deck since we have tutors, lots of card draw and filtering/scrying. Our threats impact the board heavily, and by the time you can cast them it's more than likely you have tutors or the cards themselves in hand. If we were to have too many fatties, we would be stuck with them in hand and nothing to control the game with. We're not rushing Tron out.
Darksteel/Blightsteel Colossus is just too much mana to cast, and don't quite impact the board enough on the turn they hit the table since Path to Exileis everywhere, especially in the throw-your-money-at-your-opponent-till-he's-dead deck also known as Junk. Remember, we are trying to control the game, then throw our win conditions at the opponent WHILE controlling the game. We have to hold up mana to react to whatever our opponent does all the time (except when there's turn 3 Wurmcoil. That's just too good to resist.)
Makes sense. I appreciate everyone being so helpful. So I decided to make this on tapped out, and I'll probably purchase this deck either after tax returns or when I sell my playset of Liliana of the Veil. Going to stick with Gifts Ungiven in the build so I can learn how to use that card the hard way.
IMHO...I'd run fabricate over gifts until you really know both this deck, and modern in general inside and out.
Gifts is a tough card to play. It's an amazing card, but it's very difficult to know when to play it and what to pick with it.
I just think you'll be better off using fabricate until you've got a solid understanding of this deck. Once you know this deck inside and out, you'll be better prepared to know exactly what you should be doing with gifts.
This is of course just my opinion.
Dope. Okay. I also want to know why your threat creatures are so limited? Is it because the Meta? I remember when my friend used to play MTG back in the day and Midslaver decks were top tier. The decks were very similar except one would run Myr Retriever instead of Academy Ruins and their boss creature was Darksteel Colossus. I don't see Blightsteel in this deck, nor other big artifact creatures.
Hello. I'm new to modern and have been looking at this deck for a while now. I've been looking at TronU decks that have placed and I noticed one person was running Gifts Ungiven instead of Fabricate. How do you guys feel about this? Is it a better choice than Fabricatee?
Why bother with rain of tears, and Wrench Mind, when you can Tectonic Edge or Ghost Quarter your opponent. Or just Ravens Crime over and over. that is the beauty of Loam Pox.
Well, I did just say I play MB Pox in legacy, so you can understand why I asked those questions about those cards. Wrench mind is a pretty good replacement for Hymn to Tourach in modern if you ask me. I mean, 8 rack runs it and I see a lot of the time Pox decks in modern will splash elements of 8 rack in the deck. This guys list is pretty dope though. I like the Vengeful Pharaoh in the deck.
Levy went 4-0 with this deck (mtgo). Mind you it doesn't use rack, but you could easily make card changes to suit rack (buried ruin) etc. This is also his latest brew, which he said was better than the one he took to pro tour. http://www.twitch.tv/raphaellevy/v/3793298
This is very interesting. I play Pox is Legacy, but I play at a venue that allows proxies and the same 10-15 people show up. It's rather small and I'd like to go competitive, but I like the funds to afford Legacy's money cards. I want to play pox in Modern, but I notice a lot is different in the deck. Pox's main strategy was to make your opponent enter top deck mode and slowly chipping him away until victory. It seems like the premise is similar, but lacks some locks. I want to experiment with Modern, but not sure where to start. How come cards such as Rain of Tears and Wrench Mind aren't used in the deck?
***was having issues when I first made this thread earlier in the day. I got messaged saying, Replies weren't going through". Also, I couldn't edit the first thread of this I made, so I made it again. Please don't delete this one and just delete the other one. Thank you!***
Okay, so I conceived this idea recently, but have no idea if it's actually in this thread. I tried my best to look for it, but it may be lost within the cluster of other topics, so why not just make a thread?
History:
I've been trying to get some mtg games going with a group of friends for a while, but we can't decide on a format. We originally wanted to play legacy, but not a lot of us have the money to catch up with certain cards. I will still attempt to play legacy competitively due to my deck being inches away from completion. We discussed EDH, but we're still wary of the idea. Modern was mentioned once, but that format is also expensive, and **** standard. Sorry, but everyone I associate with hates standard with a passion. So, a week ago I conceived an idea for a custom format and shared it with a friend. I called it the Veteran format.
Explication:
There are certain aspects about MTG I can't stand at the moment. I like them as well, but I feel like they're somewhat toxic for the game. I used to play as a kid before planeswalkers, and landfall was a thing. I like the older way of playing MTG due to the large amount of strategy and mid games it takes to win a match. Granted there were cards back then that were busted too, but I feel like the original mtg was more versatile. So I brought up the idea to a few friends that we should play a custom format were our legal cards are from 8th edition down with a banned and restricted list. They liked the idea; however, they never played mtg without planeswalkers, so they're not sure how they fully feel about it, but they're willing to try it out. I feel this would spawn interesting ideas for decks with some form of research. We would start small by playing this among friends, then after we have this idea solid enough then we would go to local card shops, propose the idea of running events with this format and seeing where it goes.
Banned and Restricted List
This is where I will need the communities help. I would like some people to help me brainstorm ideas on what cards should be banned and what should be limited. I'm no expert on MTG, but I know a large amount of users on here are. I'm thinking about using the legacy ban list for this one, but want to unban certain cards due to cards that are not legal on here not combing with some of the banned cards. I also want to ban free mana accelerators to slow down the format a bit. So, cards like Dark Ritual, Land Tax, High Tide, et cetera.
- due to the banning of free mana accelerations and what seems to be legal in the format this card isn't so bad to play. You can search for your beater, win conditions, but still need to wait to get the proper mana to play them.
- This card is broken by design, but not sure how well it would fair due to not being able to play it turn 1/2 anymore. Not sure if this is a good idea to unban and limit to one. What do you guys think?
- Card produces way too much mana in elf decks. If I banned free mana acceleration card then this needs to be banned. Some of you are probably wondering why I didn't limit, or ban Llanowar Elves. Well,I'm not trying to destroy an archetype. If I limit elves I would need to limit other cards like Birds of Paradise
- In legacy most, if not all decks play this damn card. I'm not trying to have a format were everyone needs to be focusing on destroying land. That makes it pretty lame.
- Late game draw card, no cheap free mana acceleration, limit on what cards are legal to play. This card isn't so bad at one.
Not sure if I should ban or limit this card to one: Orim's Chant
So, that's what I have. Please be fair, respectful, and understanding of my lack of knowledge of mtg as a whole if I made any mistakes with this. Your two cents is welcome and I'd love to hear comments and criticisms!!!
So, it's been a while since I posted this thread, but someone earlier mentioned that Comic Book Depot has legacy tournaments every other Sunday and that they have legit deck there. I lack wasteland, so would I ultimately be wasting my time?
You might want to post in the Casual sub. The people over there will be able to give you much better advice than you'll get here.
Anyway, this deck seems like it wants to be doing two different things. The red cards are aggro-oriented, but the black cards are very much midrange cards. I'd suggest either cutting black altogether or adding more aggressive cards like Bloodsoaked Champion and Spike Jester.
Well, here is a rough draft of my B/R Vampire deck, but aside from Stromkirk Captain I lack a lord for this deck and need the room for it and Cabal Therapy. Not sure if I need another lord.
Word. These are good lists. The only problem is affording BOB, or Dark Depths. :/ How do you feel about B/R vampires? We get access to cards like Lightning Bolt, Terminate, Chain Lightning, and Olivia Voldaren. Also, has anyone ever done B/U Vampires? Treasure Cruise is a really good draw card and it would allow the player to play Gitaxian Probe. Splashing blue would give more synergy to Cabal Therapy.
What do you get from Vampire Tribal over just running most of the same disruption and similar creatures[/i] (Nighthawk, Gatekeeper) along with other better stuff in The Gate?
I think that Necroplasm is a good card, but it has two really big downsides stapled to it, as compared to Nether Spirit.
First, and most importantly, is that Nether Spirit costs ZERO mana 9 times out of 10. Given that Pox has a tendency to destroy our own lands with our spells, having a threat that comes back every turn, for free, is a pretty big deal.
The second issue is that, in order to dredge the Necroplasm, you also have to not draw a card. This is also a big issue, because sometimes you need a blocker and to draw cards that keep advancing your board state.
Take two different game states: one where you have 3 lands and a Necroplasm, and your opponent has 3 lands and a 5/6 Tarmogoyf. Let's say the Tarmogoyf represents lethal, and you have to block it. This means that for every turn for the rest of the game, you need to dredge your Necroplasm, and then spend all 3 of your mana just to cast it. You will never win this game without taking a chance on not dredging, and instead hoping to hit a relevant card off the top of your deck. At best Necroplasm will slowly lose the game for you, and in a sense you will be "Necroplasm locked."
Take the same scenario, but replace the creature with Nether Spirit. Now, you've got a blocker, for free, every turn, and are free to draw off the top of your deck while you look for a permanent answer to the Tarmogoyf. You can wall that 'Goyf all day, and still be able to draw through your deck looking for relevant spells. Necroplasm just doesn't give you that option.
Ultimately, Necroplasm is a good creature and idea, but I think the marginal utility is far too low compared to what Nether Spirit brings to the table.
Edit: The only place I would see Necroplasm doing good work is against a matchup that is already good for this deck. Against U/R Delver, you would kill their Elemental tokens and Insectile Aberrations on zero (turn 1), their un-flipped Delvers and Swiftspears on one (turn 2), and their Young Pyromancers on 2 (turn 3). Even then, I'd rather just board in Engineered Plague on Humans and watch them weep. Ditto for the Elves, Goblins, and Merfolk matchups.
Thanks for this. I've been playing Pox for a while now and I feel like the prison builds tend to fade out mid/late-mid game. Some decks can get over your setups or draw beastly and decide to smack you a bit. I've seen a lot of people playing loam and Rack builds as of recent. May try out this version of Pox this primer covers.
Also, this may be a dead draw for us, but how about Dream Salvage for draw power, and is Waste Not that dead of a card where it's not included in the primer?
Makes sense. I appreciate everyone being so helpful. So I decided to make this on tapped out, and I'll probably purchase this deck either after tax returns or when I sell my playset of Liliana of the Veil. Going to stick with Gifts Ungiven in the build so I can learn how to use that card the hard way.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/hito-is-apparently-an-********/
Dope. Okay. I also want to know why your threat creatures are so limited? Is it because the Meta? I remember when my friend used to play MTG back in the day and Midslaver decks were top tier. The decks were very similar except one would run Myr Retriever instead of Academy Ruins and their boss creature was Darksteel Colossus. I don't see Blightsteel in this deck, nor other big artifact creatures.
Deck list:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9315&d=253442&f=MO
Well, I did just say I play MB Pox in legacy, so you can understand why I asked those questions about those cards. Wrench mind is a pretty good replacement for Hymn to Tourach in modern if you ask me. I mean, 8 rack runs it and I see a lot of the time Pox decks in modern will splash elements of 8 rack in the deck. This guys list is pretty dope though. I like the Vengeful Pharaoh in the deck.
This is very interesting. I play Pox is Legacy, but I play at a venue that allows proxies and the same 10-15 people show up. It's rather small and I'd like to go competitive, but I like the funds to afford Legacy's money cards. I want to play pox in Modern, but I notice a lot is different in the deck. Pox's main strategy was to make your opponent enter top deck mode and slowly chipping him away until victory. It seems like the premise is similar, but lacks some locks. I want to experiment with Modern, but not sure where to start. How come cards such as Rain of Tears and Wrench Mind aren't used in the deck?
Okay, so I conceived this idea recently, but have no idea if it's actually in this thread. I tried my best to look for it, but it may be lost within the cluster of other topics, so why not just make a thread?
History:
I've been trying to get some mtg games going with a group of friends for a while, but we can't decide on a format. We originally wanted to play legacy, but not a lot of us have the money to catch up with certain cards. I will still attempt to play legacy competitively due to my deck being inches away from completion. We discussed EDH, but we're still wary of the idea. Modern was mentioned once, but that format is also expensive, and **** standard. Sorry, but everyone I associate with hates standard with a passion. So, a week ago I conceived an idea for a custom format and shared it with a friend. I called it the Veteran format.
Explication:
There are certain aspects about MTG I can't stand at the moment. I like them as well, but I feel like they're somewhat toxic for the game. I used to play as a kid before planeswalkers, and landfall was a thing. I like the older way of playing MTG due to the large amount of strategy and mid games it takes to win a match. Granted there were cards back then that were busted too, but I feel like the original mtg was more versatile. So I brought up the idea to a few friends that we should play a custom format were our legal cards are from 8th edition down with a banned and restricted list. They liked the idea; however, they never played mtg without planeswalkers, so they're not sure how they fully feel about it, but they're willing to try it out. I feel this would spawn interesting ideas for decks with some form of research. We would start small by playing this among friends, then after we have this idea solid enough then we would go to local card shops, propose the idea of running events with this format and seeing where it goes.
Banned and Restricted List
This is where I will need the communities help. I would like some people to help me brainstorm ideas on what cards should be banned and what should be limited. I'm no expert on MTG, but I know a large amount of users on here are. I'm thinking about using the legacy ban list for this one, but want to unban certain cards due to cards that are not legal on here not combing with some of the banned cards. I also want to ban free mana accelerators to slow down the format a bit. So, cards like Dark Ritual, Land Tax, High Tide, et cetera.
Banned:
Restricted[1 copy]:
- Demonic Tutor
- due to the banning of free mana accelerations and what seems to be legal in the format this card isn't so bad to play. You can search for your beater, win conditions, but still need to wait to get the proper mana to play them.
- Force of Will
- Pay a life, counter target spell. No thank you. This card is the bane of most peoples existence in Legacy and vintage.
- Merchant Scroll
- Same reason why all the tutotrs are at one. It searches stuff.
- Mind Twist
-This card isn't so bad with all the cheap mana manipulation card running about, so I restricted it to one.
- Mystical Tutor
- Obvious
- Necropotence
- This card is broken by design, but not sure how well it would fair due to not being able to play it turn 1/2 anymore. Not sure if this is a good idea to unban and limit to one. What do you guys think?
- Priestess of Titania
- Card produces way too much mana in elf decks. If I banned free mana acceleration card then this needs to be banned. Some of you are probably wondering why I didn't limit, or ban Llanowar Elves. Well,I'm not trying to destroy an archetype. If I limit elves I would need to limit other cards like Birds of Paradise
- Rofellos, llnaowar emissary
- Same reason asPriestess of Titania. This card is stupid good.
- Vampiric Tutor
- I personally think this card is pretty fair, seeing as how limited the legal cards are and what you can get with them.
- Wasteland
- In legacy most, if not all decks play this damn card. I'm not trying to have a format were everyone needs to be focusing on destroying land. That makes it pretty lame.
- Yawgmoth's Bargain
- Late game draw card, no cheap free mana acceleration, limit on what cards are legal to play. This card isn't so bad at one.Not sure if I should ban or limit this card to one: Orim's Chant
So, that's what I have. Please be fair, respectful, and understanding of my lack of knowledge of mtg as a whole if I made any mistakes with this. Your two cents is welcome and I'd love to hear comments and criticisms!!!
Could I replace Gatekeeper of Malakir with Shriekmaw, so it further fuels my graveyard in order to use Tombstalker more consistently?
Saw this deck http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rakdos-aggro-deck-1st/ and was inspired to make something similar. Props goes to Ravvy for making the original build.
Also, I want to state we all play casual legacy; however, we all want to make our decks as competitive as possible. So, suggestions would be great.
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Goblin Guide
4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Rakdos Shred-Freak
2x Tombstalker
4x Vexing Devil
4x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Dragonskull Summit
5x Mountain
2x Polluted Delta
3x Swamp
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
Sorcery (4)
4x Chain Lightning
Deck link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/br-rakdos-prototype-please-leave-suggestions/
Thank you, all.
4x Bloodghast
4x Pulse Tracker
4x Stromkirk Captain
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Vampire Lacerator
4x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Umezawa's Jitte
Land (20)
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Swamp
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
Sorcery (9)
2x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
Maybeboard (7)
4x Blood Artist
1x Malakir Bloodwitch
2x Olivia Voldaren
Well, here is a rough draft of my B/R Vampire deck, but aside from Stromkirk Captain I lack a lord for this deck and need the room for it and Cabal Therapy. Not sure if I need another lord.
Because I want to run the tribe?
New Build. Tell me what you guys think.
4x Bloodghast
3x Bloodline Keeper Flip
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Pulse Tracker
4x Vampire Lacerator
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Hymn to Tourach
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
Land (20)
1x Cabal Pit
4x Cavern of Souls
15x Swamp
3x Smother
Artifact (2)
2x Umezawa's Jitte
Maybeboard (12)
4x Blood Artist
4x Dark Ritual
1x Malakir Bloodwitch
3x Vampire Nocturnus
Deck Link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rondo-of-blood/
Thanks for this. I've been playing Pox for a while now and I feel like the prison builds tend to fade out mid/late-mid game. Some decks can get over your setups or draw beastly and decide to smack you a bit. I've seen a lot of people playing loam and Rack builds as of recent. May try out this version of Pox this primer covers.
Also, this may be a dead draw for us, but how about Dream Salvage for draw power, and is Waste Not that dead of a card where it's not included in the primer?