the locust god could have been such a cool card for turns since the amount of draw power we have... 3-4 tokens a turn for free O: but it costs 6 mana so meh
swarm intelligence could be very cool but again, too much mana
Locust God is sick, but its got the same problems other useful big drops do. When we're ready to play that bomb, there often isn't anything left to back it up, so we're counting on a resolved Exhaustion or some other effect to allow the Locust God to stick through interaction.
Dropping a Warp with Swarm Intelligence on the table, mine or no mine, is probably game over and a win for us. That said, it has the same problem as Locust God. It's expensive and therefore difficult to protect or stay alive after I play them.
23 lands
7 mines
10/12 warps
rest could be any kin of desruption. probably a bit of self milling in ug with tarmos could be good as well. we could probably go bug to add some discard to fuel tarmo instead of self milling
If it was truly a BUG Time Warp list, I think I'd try to just fill up on targeted discard, remand, gigadrowse, and tarmogoyf. Maybe one or two weird tribal cards to add to the "not-Delerium" count. Does it make sense to run LotV alongside Mines in TimeWarp?
I'm surprised no one is playing Into the Roil, is it just too much mana?
no point in playing it when you have boomerangs and cryptic command i guess
I know there's no "kicker" so to speak on Unsubstantiate but that's also an excellent new card. I know that maybe a couple years ago we used to discuss Into the Roil more often. I don't think it's worth an inclusion on the primer unless somebody sports it in a winning list for a mid-large event.
Edit: Second thought, it might be more useful in a list that runs more than 2x Snapcaster Mage, but only just.
Hey all! First time posting on the primer. Please give my UR Turns list a look and criticize. The mainboard is very tempo heavy and will handle tempo and aggro very well, then the side comes in for a more classic take on turns vs. Control and combo.
Playing Chandra Torch of Defiance seems like a really great Planeswalker choice for UR Turns. I think since you're already running Spell Pierce, you could stand to MD 2x Spell Snare. It will give you that flexibility to control the early game for as long as possible. I'd personally lose the Cryptics as they'd be better in the Sideboard with UR Turns. I can imagine that an opposing Blood Moon would be just as disruptive for you and make UU hard to cast, let alone UUU. 10 Islands probably isn't enough to run Cryptic Main Deck at 2x.
Exhaustion would be a lot better in your build as Counter+Bolt on opponent's turn followed by Exhaustion on yours is just gravy. Consider Thing in the Ice for your sideboard if you run into swarms in your meta.
I know a lot of people don't like extraplanar lens but I still use it with the snow lands because I can go off on turn 4 with it.PtW comes out faster and it's easier to cast a mine effect the same turn as a turns spell with all the extra mana.
I've been on the AV train for quite some time even though I've gotten mad flak about it.In theory it may not be that great but in play when all your mines keep getting nuked they are your only savior.
I have almost found all the cards for the UR list in paper.Im 3 as fortolds short,but since I didn't know about by force and I REALLY like it, I'm now going to have to acquire those too.
For some of the fast decks I still think ratchet bomb is underrated. Against burn it's a turn two play that you crack turn three followed up by a mine.If they are on the play it hurts them even more.Against token decks it's really good and is an answer to deaths shadow that doesn't hurt us since we have no one drop permanents.
Cryptic Command.Great card,but I feel like it's to slow as well.This deck doesn't have very good early game and having cryptic in your opener is useless.Gigadrowse or remand became the only thing I wanted to see for interaction.I eventually took it out completely and haven't regretted it.
I have two very diffrent lists,one online which is pretty standard from farf's original list.My paper deck is much better in my opinion with the AV's, I even SB crucible of worlds since land destruction has become a problem lately and those are usually grindy games.
The UR list is appealing.I like the thought of suspending as much as I can early game to follow up with a day's undoing.I myself though am paranoid of decking myself so I will run a single elixir of immortality.
You've got my current philosophy on Taking Turns just about exactly, which is refreshing. Now, I do differ only a bit:
Extra Planar Lens - I'm running a lot of nonbasic lands in my build just for the toolbox effect that provides. Older builds included Tolaria West to tutor for Draw Lands, Man Lands, Life Lands, and Bojuka Bog. That said, what have you done when you go up against things like BGx with that build? Black, Green, and Red all have countless interaction cards that can disrupt Mines, Lens, and As Foretold. Do you have more flexibility against BGx decks when playing Lens, and how so?
Elixir of Immortality - I'm terrified of decking myself in organized play, also a quick EOT 5 life isn't anything to sneeze at.
Ratchet Bomb - I've been considering trying to find room for it in the MainDeck. It comes out against so many other builds in the post board that I'm beginning to think it may belong in the main and only going out when I'm against control and need more counters.
Cryptic Command - Didn't have them for a long time but managed to cash out of Pucatrade with a few copies. That said, I feel like it's a great card when playing against fair decks, and that's it. It makes it tough to win counter wars, isn't fast enough to help me avoid death against aggro or combo, and is tough to cast with my toolbox lands.
There was a list that looked like taking turns and 8 rack jammed together without the racks on reddit.They focused on early game hand disruption and was using small pox. Pox is good in 8rack but I'm not a fan about pitching lands in turns. Pack rat could be good though.
Yeah I wouldn't be on board with running our expensive extra turn cards, AND sacrificing lands. I'd be happy to pitch my own cards in order to win the game, as I often find myself with a hand full of useless at the worst points in a match. I could see targeted discard, Pack Rat, and maybe Raven's Crime in such a build.
We may like this as an excuse to also run Bitterblossom.
Okay guys here is my decklist attached - what improvements would you make for my SIDEBOARD current meta dominated by Death's Shadow, Affinity, EldraTron and now even Storm?
Going to GP Copenhagen and would love to have my SB adjusted, maindeck - there I am okay with all 60 cards
On the sideboarding topic - we still don't really have a comprehensive sideboard guide :-$ or is there something?
Thanks for advice!
Cheers
So the trouble with these more traditional decklists is you've got, at BEST, one piece of interaction with the opponent when you untap turn 4-5. If your opponent has 1 or 2 mana open, that Cryptic or Time Warp isn't going anywhere.
Additionally, all the Cryptics in the world don't help against decks that can close out the game by Turn 3 on the play. Mostly, this'll be aggro, which you can sideboard against. But considering that MOST decks in the meta have enough chunky beasties to attempt a Turn 3-4 kill, I don't see those bigger 3-4mana spells doing much.
To contribute to the fog discussion. In order to combat my own 3x Chalice for 1's in the sideboard. I played 2 2 mana fogs. 1 Maindeck Angelsong (because it has cycling, in case it's useless in a matchup) And in the board I played 1x Pollen Lullaby.
I believe the third best fog for us is Dawn Charm. But Angelsong is the best for our mainboard, and Pollen Lullaby is the most powerful one we can bring in from the side.
I eventually moved away from fogs when Robots dropped off the radar (they almost did't exist in modern for a while but are making a comeback right now) in favor of angel's grace because its almost like a fog and its the best card in modern for beating Ad Nauseum.
But recently i have been thinking of switching back to an angelsong or two main, 3 lullaby in the side. About half of modern is aggro right now, why aren't we fogging them out until we slip into turns?
Back when Narset Transcendent was spoiled, I did include Dawn Charms in my mainboard. I feel like it covers a lot of weaknesses in the deck at the cost of a split manabase. Also preventing all combat damage while having enough mana to engage in a counter-war seems A LOT smarter than banking on 2x copies of Cryptic Command, with NO counter backup. In fact, in the current meta, it might be wise to try this out in a splash...
I'm probably just going to test out Sun Droplet myself. With taking so many turns, it should seriously hinder both Burn and Aggro without disrupting my Kef/Nodes plan.
Kefnet at Porphry Nodes is a pretty cheeky plan. Out of the games you've played (how many with this build) which matchups were a struggle?
it blows my mind that everyone is writing off As Foretold...
I mean...sorcery speed permanent that's 3cmc...
The only other candidate that I've considered is Thassa and she has scry...
But when I think about it, here's the Magical Christmas Land scenario:
T1: Land, draw spell
T2: Land, Interaction
T3: Land, As Foretold
T4: Land, CCcommand//Mine//Interaction
T5: Land, Time Warp, free Remand to protect it.
After that it's just win-more. If you stocked the deck with cantrips and cheap interaction and shaved down on Mines, yeah it might work but I doubt it's better than Dictate.
So I'm noticing that Shadow decks are by and large the most popular in the tournament circuits and on MTGO. Every decklist I've looked at has some of the greediest manabases I've ever beheld. 18 total lands in one winning deck with I think only 7 lands tappable for mana???? This is prime season for shutting down mana. Spreading Seas is very hot for us, but so is Squelch, Boomerang, and Shadow of Doubt, among others. Hurting the opposing manabase is a great strategy against the 3-4 color decks that look like they're on top of the meta at the moment.
I've gone down to 3x Exhaustion at the moment. I'm thinking 2x may be better, and I'll probably jam a maindeck Vendilion Clique in there. They certainly don't mind being bounced by TiTi, plus I'm valuing the ability to get rid of a Temporal Mastery or sneak a peek at an opponent's hand.
I personally never keep a hand without:
1. 2x Lands
2. 1+ Disruption Spells
3. Non-Walk spells
Final thought for the day, can I get away with Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre instead of Emrakul? It's protected, bulky, has ETB and shuffles. Easier to cast by far!
it shouldn't matter if all 23 lands in your deck are on top of each other before you start shuffling. if you've shuffled properly your deck will be in a random order no matter how it started. If it isn't, you didn't shuffle properly. period.
You are 100% incorrect. You are also the second person on here who has had this notion
You all need to go read up on what i am talking about because apparently some of you have the wrong idea of the meaning of expected variance, or expected mean, or sufficiently random. Or the concept that different initial conditions will produce different results after a randomization.
What you are missing is the difference between random order( i have no knowledge of the order because i shuffled several times) and 100% random which even with a shuffling machine would take longer than 3 minutes to achieve. Go look up archers paradox if you dont believe me
There is a reason wizards drew the line where they did. Because 100% random is unrealistic. And more importantly impossible to achieve in a timely manner. Imagine going to a tourney where it took several minutes to resolve each shuffle trigger. Now have fun with your 2 hour long game 1's
i'm pretty sure there is a deck that involves making your opponent shuffle his deck a lot.
full spoiler is up...basically nothing for us right?
I didn't really see anything that great. This set is pretty meh except for 3-4 wowza cards. Although I do appreciate that there's plenty of tribal action.
I'm wondering what this set will do to the meta and how that affects us. Harsh Mentor in particular looks aggressive as hell.
Honestly as soon as Unsubstantiate was spoiled I had already decided to swap out the playset of Remand. I only play Modern on the kitchen table and Cockatrice, and with that level of Jank...you really gotta have the BROADEST answer suite possible. I like the Venser effect better than the draw, and I'm running Mainboard Squelch so that is starting to give me bonus draws without Visions or Mines.
Fun but we are discussing dev competitive here keep that in mind.
I'm right there with you, let's all just keep the "this deck is solved and finalized" exchanges to a minimum. Maybe we can start to claim things like that once this deck is T2 or T1 but right now it's fringe at best and "Developing Competitive" here on MTGSalvation. But if the development phase is over, and this deck is solved, then I guess we can consign TakingTurns to be dustbin in terms of competitiveness without any consistent major tournament wins under it's belt.
Remand has been around for years and played in this deck for literally years, it's definitely staying in the 75 for 9/10 players.
Honestly as soon as Unsubstantiate was spoiled I had already decided to swap out the playset of Remand. I only play Modern on the kitchen table and Cockatrice, and with that level of Jank...you really gotta have the BROADEST answer suite possible. I like the Venser effect better than the draw, and I'm running Mainboard Squelch so that is starting to give me bonus draws without Visions or Mines.
Came here to post that this card Rise of the Second Sun (EDIT)is basically perfect for UW Taking Turns. Probably great at 2 copies. If it turns out that going heavier with 4x copies is better, than maybe Shining Shoal would be better in the board for that deck, especially against Death's Shadow and Eldrazi.
I'm hoping that they will make this card into a modern-playable cycle with similar effects (win the game if you cast it 2x during the game), because the blue one will be a STRONG contender for deck spots.
Failure//to//Comply is a pretty good card, but would be best in UW Control, not UW Taking Turns. The versatility of Remand and Unsubstantiate is tough to argue with.
Final thoughts for today: Are we sure As Foretold works with AV? I thought you couldn't "cast" a spell without a converted mana cost, as in the (0) has to be printed in the top right...maybe they FAQ'd already?
Locust God is sick, but its got the same problems other useful big drops do. When we're ready to play that bomb, there often isn't anything left to back it up, so we're counting on a resolved Exhaustion or some other effect to allow the Locust God to stick through interaction.
Dropping a Warp with Swarm Intelligence on the table, mine or no mine, is probably game over and a win for us. That said, it has the same problem as Locust God. It's expensive and therefore difficult to protect or stay alive after I play them.
If it was truly a BUG Time Warp list, I think I'd try to just fill up on targeted discard, remand, gigadrowse, and tarmogoyf. Maybe one or two weird tribal cards to add to the "not-Delerium" count. Does it make sense to run LotV alongside Mines in TimeWarp?
I know there's no "kicker" so to speak on Unsubstantiate but that's also an excellent new card. I know that maybe a couple years ago we used to discuss Into the Roil more often. I don't think it's worth an inclusion on the primer unless somebody sports it in a winning list for a mid-large event.
Edit: Second thought, it might be more useful in a list that runs more than 2x Snapcaster Mage, but only just.
Playing Chandra Torch of Defiance seems like a really great Planeswalker choice for UR Turns. I think since you're already running Spell Pierce, you could stand to MD 2x Spell Snare. It will give you that flexibility to control the early game for as long as possible. I'd personally lose the Cryptics as they'd be better in the Sideboard with UR Turns. I can imagine that an opposing Blood Moon would be just as disruptive for you and make UU hard to cast, let alone UUU. 10 Islands probably isn't enough to run Cryptic Main Deck at 2x.
Exhaustion would be a lot better in your build as Counter+Bolt on opponent's turn followed by Exhaustion on yours is just gravy. Consider Thing in the Ice for your sideboard if you run into swarms in your meta.
You've got my current philosophy on Taking Turns just about exactly, which is refreshing. Now, I do differ only a bit:
Extra Planar Lens - I'm running a lot of nonbasic lands in my build just for the toolbox effect that provides. Older builds included Tolaria West to tutor for Draw Lands, Man Lands, Life Lands, and Bojuka Bog. That said, what have you done when you go up against things like BGx with that build? Black, Green, and Red all have countless interaction cards that can disrupt Mines, Lens, and As Foretold. Do you have more flexibility against BGx decks when playing Lens, and how so?
Elixir of Immortality - I'm terrified of decking myself in organized play, also a quick EOT 5 life isn't anything to sneeze at.
Ratchet Bomb - I've been considering trying to find room for it in the MainDeck. It comes out against so many other builds in the post board that I'm beginning to think it may belong in the main and only going out when I'm against control and need more counters.
Cryptic Command - Didn't have them for a long time but managed to cash out of Pucatrade with a few copies. That said, I feel like it's a great card when playing against fair decks, and that's it. It makes it tough to win counter wars, isn't fast enough to help me avoid death against aggro or combo, and is tough to cast with my toolbox lands.
Yeah I wouldn't be on board with running our expensive extra turn cards, AND sacrificing lands. I'd be happy to pitch my own cards in order to win the game, as I often find myself with a hand full of useless at the worst points in a match. I could see targeted discard, Pack Rat, and maybe Raven's Crime in such a build.
We may like this as an excuse to also run Bitterblossom.
So the trouble with these more traditional decklists is you've got, at BEST, one piece of interaction with the opponent when you untap turn 4-5. If your opponent has 1 or 2 mana open, that Cryptic or Time Warp isn't going anywhere.
Additionally, all the Cryptics in the world don't help against decks that can close out the game by Turn 3 on the play. Mostly, this'll be aggro, which you can sideboard against. But considering that MOST decks in the meta have enough chunky beasties to attempt a Turn 3-4 kill, I don't see those bigger 3-4mana spells doing much.
One Snapcaster is weird, but I get it.
Back when Narset Transcendent was spoiled, I did include Dawn Charms in my mainboard. I feel like it covers a lot of weaknesses in the deck at the cost of a split manabase. Also preventing all combat damage while having enough mana to engage in a counter-war seems A LOT smarter than banking on 2x copies of Cryptic Command, with NO counter backup. In fact, in the current meta, it might be wise to try this out in a splash...
Kefnet at Porphry Nodes is a pretty cheeky plan. Out of the games you've played (how many with this build) which matchups were a struggle?
I mean...sorcery speed permanent that's 3cmc...
The only other candidate that I've considered is Thassa and she has scry...
But when I think about it, here's the Magical Christmas Land scenario:
T1: Land, draw spell
T2: Land, Interaction
T3: Land, As Foretold
T4: Land, CCcommand//Mine//Interaction
T5: Land, Time Warp, free Remand to protect it.
After that it's just win-more. If you stocked the deck with cantrips and cheap interaction and shaved down on Mines, yeah it might work but I doubt it's better than Dictate.
I've gone down to 3x Exhaustion at the moment. I'm thinking 2x may be better, and I'll probably jam a maindeck Vendilion Clique in there. They certainly don't mind being bounced by TiTi, plus I'm valuing the ability to get rid of a Temporal Mastery or sneak a peek at an opponent's hand.
I personally never keep a hand without:
1. 2x Lands
2. 1+ Disruption Spells
3. Non-Walk spells
Final thought for the day, can I get away with Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre instead of Emrakul? It's protected, bulky, has ETB and shuffles. Easier to cast by far!
I didn't really see anything that great. This set is pretty meh except for 3-4 wowza cards. Although I do appreciate that there's plenty of tribal action.
I'm wondering what this set will do to the meta and how that affects us. Harsh Mentor in particular looks aggressive as hell.
I'm right there with you, let's all just keep the "this deck is solved and finalized" exchanges to a minimum. Maybe we can start to claim things like that once this deck is T2 or T1 but right now it's fringe at best and "Developing Competitive" here on MTGSalvation. But if the development phase is over, and this deck is solved, then I guess we can consign TakingTurns to be dustbin in terms of competitiveness without any consistent major tournament wins under it's belt.
Remand has been around for years and played in this deck for literally years, it's definitely staying in the 75 for 9/10 players.
I'm hoping that they will make this card into a modern-playable cycle with similar effects (win the game if you cast it 2x during the game), because the blue one will be a STRONG contender for deck spots.
Failure//to//Comply is a pretty good card, but would be best in UW Control, not UW Taking Turns. The versatility of Remand and Unsubstantiate is tough to argue with.
Final thoughts for today: Are we sure As Foretold works with AV? I thought you couldn't "cast" a spell without a converted mana cost, as in the (0) has to be printed in the top right...maybe they FAQ'd already?
edit: lol I stand by nothing I say pre-caffeine