Hey guys! Let's just say I wanted to experiment with running Main Deck Engineered Explosives in MonoB Eldrazi. What are some of the better ways to fix my lands to get where I want to be? Run a few painlands and maybe swap some Maps with Chromatic Sphere?
I've actually been enjoying [[Matter Reshaper]] and [[Drown in Sorrow]]. It can always trade with a Cat or eat a Bolt and cantrips. The best scenario is being able to swing with it and then cast Drown to Scry before you put out a land or a durdle-fact. When Eye of Ugin is out, it's nearly equivalent to Delver itself.
Hey again gang! I've posted on this thread before with different modes of <>B Eldrazi (it sure ain't MonoB). This is my latest iteration trying to address the problems this archetype has with aggro decks that aren't Infect. I'm running 4x Glimmerpost and 2x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon to help out my G1. In Goldfishing, it's always awful to have to ditch GQ, and I assume it's not the best in tournaments either unless you NEED to do it. Anyways I have my GQs in the side for now to deal with Tron and the Mirror. Everything here is obviously very Beta still so let me know if you see something weird or if you have suggestions.
I don't want to go to another color to splash, even White, just because I don't want to play a 3 color deck. I'm already kinda screwed in this deck if Blood Moon comes down and I'm unable to play any TKS or Matter Reshapers! Still trying to find the best answer for that card in particular. My older builds didn't have these OGW creatures that require the new color so this I'm still very much experimenting with the manabase.
What do you all think about Culling Scales in the 75? I'm thinking about running one in the main to see what it does, and maybe 0-2 in the side.
I'd be using it against enchantments and artifacts I couldn't normally target. I'm only running 4 Relics and 2 Maps so I'll likely be able to play around it and use Scions to cast it or activate land abilities. Thoughts?
Do I really have to be running 4x Eye of Ugin to win tournaments??? In testing online and goldfishing, Eye of Ugin starts to clog up your hand uselessly starting at 3x. I can see maybe a playset of Urborg, but I'm not getting why we wouldn't want to keep drawing lands and doing things with them when its late game.
Howdy gang! So I picked up this deck, in paper, right before the price spike. Until Modern night at my LGS I might run it on Cockatrice. It's MonoB fwiw, C&C appreciated. I love this archetype, it'll probably get banned knowing my luck with bannings
I'm subbing Funeral Charm instead of selective discard because I want to be able to kill the x/1s that might aggro me out. Warping Wail is just flavorful and flexible. Tomb of the Spirit Dragon can either just produce colorless or be a blowout alongside Blight Herder and Mikokoro. I feel like the deck needs a few sweeper spells, but not sure what direction to go there.
I haven't actually played modern in any competitive level for a while but I whip out TimeWarp with my friends who play a very very high-level casual format. I've been paying attention to the new releases and even managed to get my hands on a Day's Undoing. I really want the card to work but I know that Quicken simply isn't the answer. I really don't believe you'll get far in modern if your card is only good when you have another card. Exarch/Pestermite work because they can twiddle permanents, plus they can win the game. Quicken+DU just kinda reset the playing field. I will admit that Quicken and Snapcaster Mage or even Serum Visions is just plain GOOD. For sure, the best part about the card is its synergy with Exhaustion and even your Warps. Even more brutal if you happen to pull off a Quicken+DU. To be honest, I wouldn't use it as an engine, instead I'd think of Day's Undoing as Time Warp 6-8. The reason I don't like Quicken is it just leaves you too open to cheap (monetarily and CMC) interaction from the opponent. Sure the guy playing Red or Artifacts doesn't care. But anybody using Black or Blue will almost always find a way to squeeze an opportunistic play out of Quicken+DU. I guess you could go with Snapcaster Mage as well but at that point you will require 6 mana, 3 cards, and they all have to be in your hand or the grave. Sure we draw a lot of cards, but we don't really have the selection available to do that while stopping the opponent from winning, do we?
What I suggest is to focus more on 1-cmc solutions to the issue. Definitely consider more things like Swan Song, Dispel, and targeted discard as the protection for this warp effect. Additionally, you'll certainly get a few "ooh and aaaahhs" for playing an IOK on the opponent's turn after they've drawn their extra mine-effect card. Plus, 5 mana is very very different from 6 mana. Hell, I'd even look at Judge's Familiar as a possible fix. Redirect used to be splashed by a few of the players here. It's totally hit-or-miss and may very well be a dead card in too many games to be worth it, but I digress.
I don't know about Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. I guess he just eats removal until he flips (Bolt, Spell Snare, Path, Decay). WHEN HE FLIPS THOUGH. Good golly miss molly. If you're running large numbers of him, like more than 1-2, then you may want to have another look at Temporal Mastery. He can get rid of it when you can't play it and he can replay it after you've gotten rid of it. I definitely consider him an improvement over Howling Mine itself as he cycles and is able to block, all while being a removal target. For that matter, I'd definitely look at other card draw spells that might be better than Serum Visions when using him, something like maybe Thought Scour? Could be worth it if your curve isn't too high and you're running Snappy anyways.
FWIW, Ob Nixilis Reignited is great for the deck in casual. It's too bad he doesn't cost 4, but I happened to pull one so I'm going to splash black and put him in. His ultimate can result in 8 damage by the time its your turn again (provided you have one mine/dictate). Speaking of Black, I actually thought that Demonic Pact would be great in this deck, especially if your disruption suite happened to include Boomerang and Cryptic Command. Such a list would probably need Snappy to make SURE that the Pact doesn't kill you. I wouldn't play it against many Black decks but boy would it be nice coming out of the side against Merfolk, Burn, Infect, Zoo, and Affinity. If I continue to experiment online with BU Time Warp, I'm definitely going to find a slot or two in the side for this thing. Hell, when combined with Day's Undoing, you have a pretty darn good chance of bouncing this thing before it kills you, (because those decks I mentioned WILL kill you before you get to turn 8).
As a side note to anybody who whips this thing out on the kitchen table, I personally love the timmy-factor in Platinum Emperion. Picked it up for like $5 I think last winter? Try it out! As always it was great catching up with the brews guys. Still hoping the deck breaks a Top 8 wide open. Maybe one of YOU will get the chance once the meta shakes out Origins and BFZ.
this list won 148 player event : http://manadeprived.com/mdss-toronto-wrap-up/ since its a event (relatively) close to me, it got me interrested in the deck. What do you think of the decklist.
I've seen these more 'classic' lists win events and get posted here pretty often. My big concern is, how the hell is a list like this supposed to beat Burn, Infect, or Affinity? The whole reason I splash colors in my build is better access to efficient 1-2cmc interaction. I understand that Temporal Mastery is actually quite dope in the early game and frequently wins games because of it. It also makes use of the Serum Visions that basically all variants run anyways.
To the posters running Howling Mine, how are you beating Kolaghan's??? That card is a staple in BRx lists nowadays and is frequently main decked.
Finally, I want to recommend Jace TLGP over Beleren. It still gives the UU to turn on Thassa, dodges Decay and IoK, and can even bounce all while giving better card selection.
Do we want Rule of Law or similar effects to make Day's Undoing work out? I've been thinking of revisiting my old tactic of excessively bouncing lands and non-ETB threats in order to make Day's Undoing work out. In my more casual/friendly build of the deck, I use a playset of Boomerang and Wipe Away to make mine effects nearly worthless for the opponent.
Those would be even better when played with Narset.
Edit:
To clarify: I'm currently running this particular suite of disruption
Between Remand and the 12 land removal instants, by the time I decide to cast a Day's Undoing it will essentially restart the game, only I'm sitting on 4+ lands while my opponent is starting at T1, on the draw. That's the plan anyways. It's not that I'm trying to break the thing, I'm trying to make it work in TimeWarp.
Additionally, in my build that uses cheezy amounts of bounce, Time Stop could quite feasibly replace my 3-4xWalk the Aeons, effectively becoming bounce spells 13-16 if I play it after the draw step and before the main phase. Haven't tested that particular card yet, but we'll see. I'm just hoping BloomTitan gets nerfed in the Banlist update so I don't still have to account for it. The whole bounce strategy is admittedly pretty crappy against aggro and burn as they'll probably outpace me eventually. That's what the sideboard is for I guess!
Disrupting Shoal is tech I've been trying to throw in here since I found the thread! Problem is, it's often dead :-(
I wish there were a few more 4-drops to include in the deck as a NUTS play would be a T3 Dictate, followed by a Shoal at 4 to kill Coco, Rhino, Gifts, MoW, Cryptic or Twin. Maybe it's too narrow a target to think about, but that particular combo will probably win that game in question.
Sounds nice, but "if wishes were fishes" right? The only 4-drops I can think of are Narset, Jace Aot, Jace LGP, and Cryptic. None of which I would idly throw away, except in that nuts play.
With Kolaghan's Command flying around as probably the most efficient B/R spell in modern, I'm going to stay even further away from Mine than ever before. Every T1 list except Tron now has easy access to some type of early artifact removal. For the time being, I'm only paper testing Dictates and Jaces.
With regards to Quicken: I like it, I'm gonna test it (cheap in paper and online so why not?) but I think it's best in Snapcaster lists. I'd have to paper proxy snappy since I'll need a lawyer or doctor boyfriend/sugar daddy to afford a playset of those suckers.
As an aside, I'm testing replacing Elixir of Immortality with Relic of Progenitus in G2 since a lot of T1 loves Delve, Flashback, and Tarmy. I guess it's just a worse Scooze but it might make Days Undoing even more one sided.
NINJA EDIT:
Here's a quick mockup of ideas thrown around on this page of the thread
This one is more tuned to the Grixis/Combo Meta since our BGx is already fine. The Super Friends I use in paper are gone but I slipped in Ghost Quarter since it's fine against manlands and Tronz
Does anyone has an idea about what is best? howling mine or dictate of kruphix in the combo version... im running 4 remmands, 2 cryptics 4 exaustion 2 jace
Well you should really scope out the primer for more details as we put a lot of work in to it. That said, you probably want 1-mana card draw and probably close to a playset of Gigadrowse since it's great at any turn in the game.
Bests of luck with all of that, bud. If my english wasnt mediocre, I would definately love to work on the primer, but given that I am to start school again, also prevents me from doing anything serious about that.
- Along with you, I will be moving forward aswell - I'm not breaking from the deck, neither taking a break nor selling out from it: But I am to play UWRTwin in the near future, so this might be a deck I will play now and then. With that being said, I will have the UR/UW/UWR manabase now, so I might throw some crazy brews up here sometimes. I'm much more likely to playtest a deck when I actually have the cards to build.
Will see you around, love.
Well now that you've said it, SOMEBODY has to test a TimeTwin list.
I'm actually grinding matches online ahead of a paper day. I'm doing UW and MonoU, respectively. Actually have the most faith in UW Superfriends since access to Path means I might consistently beat Infect (lots of that at my LGS).
Hey gang! LOVING the brews floating around lately!
For those currently testing in UW: have any of you had experience with Reverence in modern, limited, or casual? It just so happens to hose a lot of efficient creatures played and dodges IOK and Decay. I'm thinking 1-2 in the side.
Off the top of my head:
Thalia
Eidolon
Goblin Guide
Lingering Souls
Pestermite/Exarch
Snapcaster and Young Peezy
Aside from my engines and a large suite of early interaction, most of my wincons are sorcery speed, just another big Enchantment with limited effect might be worth it, might not. I'm going to local tournies with an unknown meta so for now I'm gonna test it.
The thing you have to remember about Narset is that, even if you can't always hit the Rebound ability, just +1ing her repeatedly and popping her ultimate can be absolutely backbreaking to certain decks.
I'm inclined to agree!
Narset is an excellent candidate for UW TimeWarp, especially since most of those builds have been posted with just enough creatures to chump block for her. I might put her in the side once my LGS summer modern series kicks off is most of that meta turns out to be non-aggro.
While Gideon doesn't have an earth shattering ultimate, the other three I run do. Narset and other UW walkers here love having just one or two extra activations due to time warp effects.
Pretty sure I'd suggest Jace AoT pretty highly in the top8 meta. Even if he's the only permanent out, one activation stops Young Pyromancer, Lingering Souls, and Deceiver Exarch. Two activations neutralizes Pestermite and most every other relevant creatures.
Does anyone know if Leylines HAVE to be a 4-of in the side? Not sure what's honestly optimal
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9x Swamp
That's my general manabase for now. Thanks again!!!!
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells
2x Expedition Map
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Thoughtseize
2x Smother
2x Warping Wail
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
2x All is Dust
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Vesuva
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
5x Swamp
4x Glimmerpost
Hey again gang! I've posted on this thread before with different modes of <>B Eldrazi (it sure ain't MonoB). This is my latest iteration trying to address the problems this archetype has with aggro decks that aren't Infect. I'm running 4x Glimmerpost and 2x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon to help out my G1. In Goldfishing, it's always awful to have to ditch GQ, and I assume it's not the best in tournaments either unless you NEED to do it. Anyways I have my GQs in the side for now to deal with Tron and the Mirror. Everything here is obviously very Beta still so let me know if you see something weird or if you have suggestions.
I don't want to go to another color to splash, even White, just because I don't want to play a 3 color deck. I'm already kinda screwed in this deck if Blood Moon comes down and I'm unable to play any TKS or Matter Reshapers! Still trying to find the best answer for that card in particular. My older builds didn't have these OGW creatures that require the new color so this I'm still very much experimenting with the manabase.
I'd be using it against enchantments and artifacts I couldn't normally target. I'm only running 4 Relics and 2 Maps so I'll likely be able to play around it and use Scions to cast it or activate land abilities. Thoughts?
4x Wasteland Strangler
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells
4x Expedition Map
4x Relic of Progenitus
4x Surgical Extraction
3x Funeral Charm
3x Warping Wail
2x Smother
1x Dismember
2x All is Dust
1x Thoughtseize
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
13x Swamp
I'm subbing Funeral Charm instead of selective discard because I want to be able to kill the x/1s that might aggro me out. Warping Wail is just flavorful and flexible. Tomb of the Spirit Dragon can either just produce colorless or be a blowout alongside Blight Herder and Mikokoro. I feel like the deck needs a few sweeper spells, but not sure what direction to go there.
I haven't actually played modern in any competitive level for a while but I whip out TimeWarp with my friends who play a very very high-level casual format. I've been paying attention to the new releases and even managed to get my hands on a Day's Undoing. I really want the card to work but I know that Quicken simply isn't the answer. I really don't believe you'll get far in modern if your card is only good when you have another card. Exarch/Pestermite work because they can twiddle permanents, plus they can win the game. Quicken+DU just kinda reset the playing field. I will admit that Quicken and Snapcaster Mage or even Serum Visions is just plain GOOD. For sure, the best part about the card is its synergy with Exhaustion and even your Warps. Even more brutal if you happen to pull off a Quicken+DU. To be honest, I wouldn't use it as an engine, instead I'd think of Day's Undoing as Time Warp 6-8. The reason I don't like Quicken is it just leaves you too open to cheap (monetarily and CMC) interaction from the opponent. Sure the guy playing Red or Artifacts doesn't care. But anybody using Black or Blue will almost always find a way to squeeze an opportunistic play out of Quicken+DU. I guess you could go with Snapcaster Mage as well but at that point you will require 6 mana, 3 cards, and they all have to be in your hand or the grave. Sure we draw a lot of cards, but we don't really have the selection available to do that while stopping the opponent from winning, do we?
What I suggest is to focus more on 1-cmc solutions to the issue. Definitely consider more things like Swan Song, Dispel, and targeted discard as the protection for this warp effect. Additionally, you'll certainly get a few "ooh and aaaahhs" for playing an IOK on the opponent's turn after they've drawn their extra mine-effect card. Plus, 5 mana is very very different from 6 mana. Hell, I'd even look at Judge's Familiar as a possible fix. Redirect used to be splashed by a few of the players here. It's totally hit-or-miss and may very well be a dead card in too many games to be worth it, but I digress.
I don't know about Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. I guess he just eats removal until he flips (Bolt, Spell Snare, Path, Decay). WHEN HE FLIPS THOUGH. Good golly miss molly. If you're running large numbers of him, like more than 1-2, then you may want to have another look at Temporal Mastery. He can get rid of it when you can't play it and he can replay it after you've gotten rid of it. I definitely consider him an improvement over Howling Mine itself as he cycles and is able to block, all while being a removal target. For that matter, I'd definitely look at other card draw spells that might be better than Serum Visions when using him, something like maybe Thought Scour? Could be worth it if your curve isn't too high and you're running Snappy anyways.
FWIW, Ob Nixilis Reignited is great for the deck in casual. It's too bad he doesn't cost 4, but I happened to pull one so I'm going to splash black and put him in. His ultimate can result in 8 damage by the time its your turn again (provided you have one mine/dictate). Speaking of Black, I actually thought that Demonic Pact would be great in this deck, especially if your disruption suite happened to include Boomerang and Cryptic Command. Such a list would probably need Snappy to make SURE that the Pact doesn't kill you. I wouldn't play it against many Black decks but boy would it be nice coming out of the side against Merfolk, Burn, Infect, Zoo, and Affinity. If I continue to experiment online with BU Time Warp, I'm definitely going to find a slot or two in the side for this thing. Hell, when combined with Day's Undoing, you have a pretty darn good chance of bouncing this thing before it kills you, (because those decks I mentioned WILL kill you before you get to turn 8).
As a side note to anybody who whips this thing out on the kitchen table, I personally love the timmy-factor in Platinum Emperion. Picked it up for like $5 I think last winter? Try it out! As always it was great catching up with the brews guys. Still hoping the deck breaks a Top 8 wide open. Maybe one of YOU will get the chance once the meta shakes out Origins and BFZ.
I've seen these more 'classic' lists win events and get posted here pretty often. My big concern is, how the hell is a list like this supposed to beat Burn, Infect, or Affinity? The whole reason I splash colors in my build is better access to efficient 1-2cmc interaction. I understand that Temporal Mastery is actually quite dope in the early game and frequently wins games because of it. It also makes use of the Serum Visions that basically all variants run anyways.
To the posters running Howling Mine, how are you beating Kolaghan's??? That card is a staple in BRx lists nowadays and is frequently main decked.
Finally, I want to recommend Jace TLGP over Beleren. It still gives the UU to turn on Thassa, dodges Decay and IoK, and can even bounce all while giving better card selection.
Those would be even better when played with Narset.
Edit:
To clarify: I'm currently running this particular suite of disruption
4x Wipe Away
4x Cryptic Command
3x Remand
2x Path to Exile
1x Spell Snare
2x Disrupting Shoal
Between Remand and the 12 land removal instants, by the time I decide to cast a Day's Undoing it will essentially restart the game, only I'm sitting on 4+ lands while my opponent is starting at T1, on the draw. That's the plan anyways. It's not that I'm trying to break the thing, I'm trying to make it work in TimeWarp.
Additionally, in my build that uses cheezy amounts of bounce, Time Stop could quite feasibly replace my 3-4xWalk the Aeons, effectively becoming bounce spells 13-16 if I play it after the draw step and before the main phase. Haven't tested that particular card yet, but we'll see. I'm just hoping BloomTitan gets nerfed in the Banlist update so I don't still have to account for it. The whole bounce strategy is admittedly pretty crappy against aggro and burn as they'll probably outpace me eventually. That's what the sideboard is for I guess!
I wish there were a few more 4-drops to include in the deck as a NUTS play would be a T3 Dictate, followed by a Shoal at 4 to kill Coco, Rhino, Gifts, MoW, Cryptic or Twin. Maybe it's too narrow a target to think about, but that particular combo will probably win that game in question.
Sounds nice, but "if wishes were fishes" right? The only 4-drops I can think of are Narset, Jace Aot, Jace LGP, and Cryptic. None of which I would idly throw away, except in that nuts play.With Kolaghan's Command flying around as probably the most efficient B/R spell in modern, I'm going to stay even further away from Mine than ever before. Every T1 list except Tron now has easy access to some type of early artifact removal. For the time being, I'm only paper testing Dictates and Jaces.
With regards to Quicken: I like it, I'm gonna test it (cheap in paper and online so why not?) but I think it's best in Snapcaster lists. I'd have to paper proxy snappy since I'll need a lawyer or doctor boyfriend/sugar daddy to afford a playset of those suckers.
As an aside, I'm testing replacing Elixir of Immortality with Relic of Progenitus in G2 since a lot of T1 loves Delve, Flashback, and Tarmy. I guess it's just a worse Scooze but it might make Days Undoing even more one sided.
NINJA EDIT:
Here's a quick mockup of ideas thrown around on this page of the thread
3 Spellskite
2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Path to Exile
4 Gigadrowse
4 Quicken
1 Martial Coup
2 Disrupting Shoal
2 Remand
2 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Day's Undoing
3 Exhaustion
4 Time Warp
3 Walk the Aeons
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Flooded Strand
10 Island
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Auriok Champion
1 Rest in Peace
3 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Leyline of Sanctity
This one is more tuned to the Grixis/Combo Meta since our BGx is already fine. The Super Friends I use in paper are gone but I slipped in Ghost Quarter since it's fine against manlands and Tronz
Well you should really scope out the primer for more details as we put a lot of work in to it. That said, you probably want 1-mana card draw and probably close to a playset of Gigadrowse since it's great at any turn in the game.
It'd be good in mill or maybe storm? Where milling and reloading are important...
How would you guys actually run this thing theoretically? I mean tapping out on Turn 3 has never been wise in Modern...
Well now that you've said it, SOMEBODY has to test a TimeTwin list.
I'm actually grinding matches online ahead of a paper day. I'm doing UW and MonoU, respectively. Actually have the most faith in UW Superfriends since access to Path means I might consistently beat Infect (lots of that at my LGS).
For those currently testing in UW: have any of you had experience with Reverence in modern, limited, or casual? It just so happens to hose a lot of efficient creatures played and dodges IOK and Decay. I'm thinking 1-2 in the side.
Off the top of my head:
Thalia
Eidolon
Goblin Guide
Lingering Souls
Pestermite/Exarch
Snapcaster and Young Peezy
Aside from my engines and a large suite of early interaction, most of my wincons are sorcery speed, just another big Enchantment with limited effect might be worth it, might not. I'm going to local tournies with an unknown meta so for now I'm gonna test it.
I'm inclined to agree!
Narset is an excellent candidate for UW TimeWarp, especially since most of those builds have been posted with just enough creatures to chump block for her. I might put her in the side once my LGS summer modern series kicks off is most of that meta turns out to be non-aggro.
While Gideon doesn't have an earth shattering ultimate, the other three I run do. Narset and other UW walkers here love having just one or two extra activations due to time warp effects.
Pretty sure I'd suggest Jace AoT pretty highly in the top8 meta. Even if he's the only permanent out, one activation stops Young Pyromancer, Lingering Souls, and Deceiver Exarch. Two activations neutralizes Pestermite and most every other relevant creatures.
Does anyone know if Leylines HAVE to be a 4-of in the side? Not sure what's honestly optimal