I think there are better options than Sphere of Safety for this deck. I think the biggest downside it has is that they will never stop a determined player from killing your planeswalkers: Even if you have 5 enchantments out, someone can still pay 5 mana and swing in with their beat stick to destroy your planeswalker that's about to ultimate. With spreading plague, they could get creative with their creature ordering to really reduce the impact. I have had both of these cards for a long time in the ever-expanding maybeboard of this deck, but I think Spreading Plague is much better for sure.
There are a bunch of enchantments like Spreading Plague, Lethal Vapors, and Tainted Aether, which all seem more or less equally viable to me. I will swap out Tainted Aether and test out Spreading Plague, maybe it will perform better than I expect!
On the other hand, for the same mana cost as Sphere you can play Mystic Barrier , that will stop at least 2/3 players from attacking you in the worst case, and basically all attacks in the best case. Because you can change the direction on each of your upkeeps, you can always choose the player that can harm you the least, which also allows you to focus your removal and maze of ith activations and the like on keeping down one player at a time.
Point taken on Sphere.
As for Mystic Barrier, I think the only reason why I wouldn't play it because it would make the game incredibly boring lolyou could say the same thing about Humility et al but it's a little less direct and just doesn't jive with me. Competitively, it probably is pretty good in this deck though.
Cardkingdom had it at $175, so I used some credit and bit the bullet haha. I think my deck is shifting towards esper over time, with Red and Green acting as supporting colors. I've made lots of changes to the mana base to support these changes:
The effect of Invoke Prejudice is awesome at basically every point in the game, so there's not to much of a rush to cast it. Between Chromatic Lantern, Mirrari's Wake, and a good mana base I think casting IP on turns 5 or 6 is definitely doable. (You run Wargate, so it's even easier!)
In terms of cuts I would definitely recommend cutting Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Dovin Baan. I recently cut them myself for being too low-impact. The ultimates don't win you the game, and the other abilities are not exactly amazing. Also, I think Will Kenrith is better than Dovin in basically every way, it's a great one-to-one replacement.
Right now I'm testing Rowan Kenrith . It's certainly not amazing, but the -2 and the -8 are alright, and Will Kenrith is so good in the deck that just tutoring for him is really good value, and it makes Will even better!
For that price seems note too bad.
And I'll take your word for dropping Elspeth and Dovin. I was leaning towards Dovin, and Elspeth I like but I'll try without her. I'm always happy to cut high CMC cards. Which is why I won't run Will for now, mainly cause he's already pretty high cost.
What do you guys think about Invoke Prejudice ? The mana cost is nuts, but the effect is a 10/10 in this deck. Shuts down creature based decks really hard.
I never really considered this card due to the art and artist, but I'm thinking I'll just use a proxy that changes the art and artist name.
Beyond the actual price of the card, it's also UUUU.. Pretty hard to cast in a 5 color deck. Let me know how it goes if you do run it, but I doubt I'll ever pick it up now lol
That's totally fair! Would you mind sharing how you normally close out games? Do people scoop, or is there a specific interaction that brings the game to an end?
I'm really curious just because my playgroup is super stubborn and will refuse to scoop until I actually win the game, no matter how overwhelming the advantage (I would personally prefer to just shuffle up and play again!).
In general, yeah my playgroup does scoop. So I can see where you're coming from. Certain planeswalkers ultimating will provide a win, eventually. Some of them can win you the game on the spot, usually through direct damage or generating tokens. Also, I know you mentioned stuff like Moat/The Abyss, fortunately you can still get around those with Sliver Queen out and close the game through general damage as well.
I do see what you're saying though, there's isn't many actual win cons in the deck, so it can be slow.
I understand why you would want to, but I kind of hate alternate win cons. They take away the feeling for me of actually playing (same with instant win combos).
I'm looking forward to seeing your new list! I have just updated my deck again, after finally acquiring The Abyss and Moat!
I've also just had the idea to add Innocent Blood . It seems crazy powerful in this deck, with a ceiling of a one mana 3 for 1 that can get around hexproof and indestructible creatures. It can be amazing early game to shut down commanders like Yisan, or later in the game after we cast our wraths to remove the bulk of our opponent's creatures. Then we can play it again later in the game with Yawgmoth's Will! It will be replacing swords to plowshares for now, until I find a better replacement.
The sideboard and maybeboard are a bit of a mess, but they show a bunch of cards I've considered over time. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this deck!
Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been responding or anything. I haven't been playing much, but I'm thinking picking back up. I want to sort of re-evaluate this list, though I think it will largely stay the same. I just want to give it a tune up.
Finally got to play a game, it's been awhile. I was running into some mana issues and drawing maybe a little too many unnecessary planeswalkers, and not drawing enough in general. I'm thinking about dropping a few planeswalkers, opinions on which ones?
All pretty weak in my opinion, besides Estrid, the Masked. 3 converted mana cost, and WUB, isn't too bad cost wise. I like that. The plus is a little top deck manipulation which can come in handy, her minus refreshes our planeswalkers (minus and then activate her ability) as well as interacts well with cards like Mana Vault.
Hey Trav, what I meant is that because the Tezz's emblem triggers on the end step, you dont get to actually use your new planeswalker's abilities, so the planeswalker would probably get killed before you get any utility from them at all.
Hey Trav, what I meant is that because the Tezz's emblem triggers on the end step, you dont get to actually use your new planeswalker's abilities, so the planeswalker would probably get killed before you get any utility from them at all.
Ah, duh lol I completely forgot I see what you're saying though, but I don't think I would worry too much.
I think this Tezzeret is just on the cusp of playable for us. How often will we really have 3 artifacts out, even counting his +1? On the other hand, his ultimate is sweet. The fact that is triggers on the end step is good in the sense that it gives ommediate value, but unfortunately it doesnt really work with our planeswalkers, making it a bit of a nonbo.
I actually quite like him. His plus create flying blockers, not just 1/1's, but things that can get in the way of a Kaalia beater or whatever else. Combos great with Moat.
His 0 is draw a card at worst. Not bad, not necessarily great. But at best, it's draw two. How likely will that happen though? Well he facilitates it, so that's a thing for sure. On top of that, we have 3 mana rocks and a few other artifacts that I think will help facilitate it as well. Drawing two a turn can be insane.
His minus is fine, not that crazy but definitely can set up a Doubling Season into an ultimate. Not sure what you mean it doesn't work with our planeswalkers since they're permanents?
Based on M19, here's the changes I'm considering:
Karn Liberated -> Will Kenrith - Sort of surprising I'm thinking about dropping Karn, but honestly, when I re-evaluated him, he's just not that great. Best thing he does for me is deal with Blood Moon. Other than that, his plus is mediocre, his ultimate I avoid doing and his minus is good, but I'd rather not pay 7 for an Utter End.
Gideon Jura -> Tezzeret, Artifice Master - Gideon was mediocre when I included him, and only did to help out the three drop Gideon. That's a pretty weak reason, to be honest. I like Tezz, and this way the cmc are the same, so we're not increasing our overall CMC, but instead reducing it.
As for Mystic Barrier, I think the only reason why I wouldn't play it because it would make the game incredibly boring lolyou could say the same thing about Humility et al but it's a little less direct and just doesn't jive with me. Competitively, it probably is pretty good in this deck though.
And I'll take your word for dropping Elspeth and Dovin. I was leaning towards Dovin, and Elspeth I like but I'll try without her. I'm always happy to cut high CMC cards. Which is why I won't run Will for now, mainly cause he's already pretty high cost.
What's your opinion of Sphere of Safety?
Another card I'm probably going to test is Spreading Plague.
I do see what you're saying though, there's isn't many actual win cons in the deck, so it can be slow.
Care to explain why you like him though?
Here's a short list of planeswalkers I'm considering:
- Tamiyo, Field Researcher
- Nissa, Vital Force
- Dovin Baan
- Jace, Architect of Thought
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion
- Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
- Kaya, Ghost Assassin
Aminatou, the Fateshifter
Lord Windgrace
Estrid, the Masked
Saheeli, the Gifted
All pretty weak in my opinion, besides Estrid, the Masked. 3 converted mana cost, and WUB, isn't too bad cost wise. I like that. The plus is a little top deck manipulation which can come in handy, her minus refreshes our planeswalkers (minus and then activate her ability) as well as interacts well with cards like Mana Vault.
I'm considering her for now.
I actually quite like him. His plus create flying blockers, not just 1/1's, but things that can get in the way of a Kaalia beater or whatever else. Combos great with Moat.
His 0 is draw a card at worst. Not bad, not necessarily great. But at best, it's draw two. How likely will that happen though? Well he facilitates it, so that's a thing for sure. On top of that, we have 3 mana rocks and a few other artifacts that I think will help facilitate it as well. Drawing two a turn can be insane.
His minus is fine, not that crazy but definitely can set up a Doubling Season into an ultimate. Not sure what you mean it doesn't work with our planeswalkers since they're permanents?
Based on M19, here's the changes I'm considering:
Karn Liberated -> Will Kenrith - Sort of surprising I'm thinking about dropping Karn, but honestly, when I re-evaluated him, he's just not that great. Best thing he does for me is deal with Blood Moon. Other than that, his plus is mediocre, his ultimate I avoid doing and his minus is good, but I'd rather not pay 7 for an Utter End.
Gideon Jura -> Tezzeret, Artifice Master - Gideon was mediocre when I included him, and only did to help out the three drop Gideon. That's a pretty weak reason, to be honest. I like Tezz, and this way the cmc are the same, so we're not increasing our overall CMC, but instead reducing it.
Would love this card for the deck if the second plus didn't restrict to dragons.