How do you feel about your version's match-up against BGx Midrange and Jeskai Nahiri? What would you change if you know that you will face a lot of those?
Btw, congrats on your finish!
Thanks Larriepogi!
One of the guys in my playtesting group is a BGx Midrange player (switches between Abzan and Jund). I feel like mine is streamlined for this match in particular with a lot of mainboard and sideboard tech. I would say Abzan is typically much easier than Jund because it doesn't have access to Kalitas, Huntmaster, or Anger. Siege Rhino, Anafenza, and Damnation just aren't as worrisome.
Main: Essence Warden can be very difficult when they can't attack and put pressure on me to block or risk low life. Shaman of the Pack threatens to end the game quickly if they fetch and shock too often or allow me to chip too much life away.
I run 3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader for redundancy in this matchup. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is a good psuedo-Archdruid when they keep killing the real one.
I'll be running a Selfless Spirit main for a while, but it should help against mainboard Anger, protect a creature, or allow me to attack/block favorably. Spellskite is almost always killed on sight, eliminating a kill spell. Scavenging Ooze is a must-answer threat or it will shrink Goyfs, Flayers, and hit heavy.
Sideboard: Chameleon Colossus is a nightmare for Jund and troublesome for Abzan. Jund simply can't remove it without double bolt or Damnation, and it can often kill them in one swing. Abzan's only answer is Path to Exile so I will try and bait any Paths out of their hand before I play him. Elvish Champion is a must kill or I will almost always kill them immediately.
BGx games usually come down to experience in the matchup and whether they are able to draw enough removal for every must-answer threat. Even one creature living a single turn can sometimes put it way in your favor. It may not look good on paper to some, but I feel very confident in these matchups.
Jeskai Control is usually more difficult than Nahiri, but it really just comes down to how many cards like Electrolyze, Forked Bolt, and Izzet Staticaster they are running. Nahiri, the Harbinger can he hated on by our sideboard Phyrexian Revoker and Aven Mindcensor, or can simply be killed if we are allowed to establish a board.
These decks are the main reason I run Mark of Asylum outside of the Scapeshift matchup. Scavenging Ooze can be really strong if it gets past Bolt range. Eidolon of Rhetoric can stop Snapcaster Mage and survives Bolt, but you have to be careful you don't slow yourself down too much. Dismember takes care of Celestial Colonnade and that pesky Izzet Staticaster.
I typically hold out on playing CoCo or Chord until they tap out and can't counter it. I will not pretend it is a good matchup, but I always keep in mind that I have the advantage and will win much faster unless they can stop me.
How was mark of asylum for you during the gp?
Would it be too much in combination with 2 selfless spirits?
Could they be replaced with 2 thoughtseize to remove the opposing sweeper?
Were they necessary? Could you go a bit more in detail with the card (:
Thanks in advance and congratulations to your strong finish!
Thanks Feinunze!
Mark of Asylum didn't have a lot of use against the decks I faced except Affinity and Jund. Mark is best against repeatable damage from things like Ghirapur Æther Grid and Izzet Staticaster in addition to bolts and Anger/Pyroclasm. I'll be playtesting soon whether spot removal for the repeatable offenders and having a Selfless Spirit in the main and/or board is sufficient for sweepers. The toughest question will be on protecting Aven Mindcensor against Valakut decks. I would probably run Stain the Mind before I ran Thoughtseize.
Thank your for your explanations and congratulations on your record.
I have a question about your mana base. I count 7 black sources (4 Caverns, 3 Palaces) for Shaman of the Pack and Dismember:
Did you have problems casting Shaman from your hand during your matches? Frank Karsten's article states you have a >90% probability to have one colour in play by Turn 7 if you run 9 coloured sources - and you run even less.
How often was the life loss from Dismember relevent as you probably had to pay 2-4 life most of the time? (I guess not that often due to your frequent matchups against Infect)
Thank you very much,
Shandoral
1. Very good question! I ran essentially 7 black sources for Shaman of the Pack, which typically if I want to start casting it from hand I feel like I wanted to start doing so around turn 5. With 7 sources I had about an 80% chance of having the black source I needed to cast the Shaman, but this formula doesn't account for the chance of me actually having a Shaman in hand. There is just under a 50% chance of me having a Shaman of the Pack in my hand by turn 5 with the 3 copies I ran. Thus, in the 20% of games that I did not have a black source, only half of those did I actually have a Shaman in hand that I could not cast. This equates to about 90% of games being where I either do have a black source, or I do not have a Shaman in hand.
One other reason for only 3 Gilt-Leaf Palace is that my sideboard is primarily white. If I wanted a 4th, I would most likely have to cut a Razorverge Thicket and would have lowered my chances of playing the sideboard cards I drew. If I decided on running the 4th Shaman of the Pack I would most likely run the 4th Gilt-Leaf and try to trim the white in the sideboard.
2. I decided I wanted to run a removal spell in my sideboard. I chose Dismember based on looking for the best card that met what I was looking for between cost, downsides, and situations where it can or needs to be used. The main contenders were Path to Exile, Dismember, and Gut Shot. The main situations where I like removal spells are for removing an infect creature, a dork in the mirror, and killing creatures that cause us continuous trouble such as Kalitas, Izzet Staticaster, or Olivia Voldaren.
Path to Exile although only 1 mana, it requires white mana which can be a little more difficult to cast at times. Its downside is that it gives my opponent a land, but since I am a ramp deck this usually isn't too bad. However, this ramping does make casting it early in the game extremely dangerous. It is more versatile in removal than most spells, but having such a harsh downside in the early game against an opposing infect creature or dork in the mirror can cause a lot of problems.
Dismember can be as little as 1 mana, and that mana is colorless. Its downside is usually (honestly almost always) paying 4 life to kill something. Against infect life is usually not relevant. Against the mirror speed is everything and spending one mana to kill a turn 1 dork or turn 2 Archdruid can be back-breaking. Other big threats like Kalitas would make our lives miserable and deal much more damage than the 4 we are paying so I don't usually see it as a huge detriment. Dismember will kill the majority of creatures that we need it to.
Gut Shot is always paying 2 life. This is very convenient in being able to cast it alongside a turn 1 dork to kill your opponents Glistener Elf or dork. The biggest issue is that infect could potentially decide that it is worth saving the creature and spending a buff spell such as Mutagenic Growth on it. It easily kills a turn 1 dork, but an Archdruid or Kalitas are going to stick around and cause us troubles.
After taking this into account I thought Dismember was the most reliable card for me to play.
Yes, I will definitely be making some changes. First I want to explain some of my choices for this GP.
Mainboard
Notable Exclusions: Nettle Sentinel: This card is good, but there are times it just isn't great. If you're stringing elves together to dump your hand it's great and you can end a game quickly. Other times it is a 2/2 that you're casting an elf every turn so it can untap and attack. I play Essence Warden instead. Elvish Visionary: This card has always seemed lackluster. It costs 2 mana and gives you a vanilla 1/1 body. Yes it replaces itself, but no other elf in my entire deck is as weak of a play as this card. It's usually a terrible topdeck and it kills a chain when stringing elfs. I cut them altogether and did not miss them one bit. Eternal Witness: This card is extremely powerful to buy back Chord of CoCo. However, if I have the mana to be stringing plays like that together I am winning the game anyway. There are other times when it sits in my hand with no target, it comes out when I play RiP, and it isn't an elf or a strong body in play. Lead the Stampede: The best card that will win you most attrition matches. The problem is that most turns you cast it, you can't actually play any of the creatures you now have in your hand. You're tapped out, produced no immediate board presence, and revealed information about essentially every card in your hand.
Notable Inclusions Essence Warden: I cannot begin to explain how powerful this card can be. I've been running it for a few months now and it has always been very strong against burn, aggro, and midrange decks. The incremental lifegain is very hard to deal with and if they start removing them, they start to run out of removal for the threats that end the game. 3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader: Most lists I see run only 2 Ezuris. I have almost always run three and it's always felt like the right amount. I never mind drawing a 2nd copy and it is either removed or it will end the game. Shaman of the Pack: Ezuri is plan A for me. Shaman is a very strong plan B. Playtested 2 at first, didn't seem like it was always enough to kill without already getting help from combat or painful landbases. 3 worked out really well, might try to work in a fourth, but I don't want to cut Ezuri for it. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx: Nykthos can grind out a bunch of elves, help string CoCos or chords with few untapped permanents, and overrun without an Archdruid. I've seen recommendations for Westvale Abbey, but I don't think this is where I'd ever want to be. I feel like it's dumping all your eggs in one Pathable basket when you should be wary of a sweeper and try to protect yourself with a Selfless Spirit or not overextend. Chord of Calling: I love this card. Sometimes I feel it is more powerful than CoCo. Gets me exactly the card I want. I have Ezuri in hand? Chord for Archdruid. Opponent at 7 with 6 elves in play? Chord for Shaman. Opponent comboing for the win? Chord for a silver bullet target. Opponent cast a sweeper? Chord for Selfless Spirit. Selfless Spirit: I have no doubt this card deserves a spot in my main. Mainboard Anger of the Gods in Jund, Engineered Explosives in Eldrazi, Conflagrate in Dredge, and most other mainboard sweepers need an answer. Can also block Inkmoth Nexus, allow one-sided combat phases, blank a removal to a critical elf, or just swing for 2 in the air. What more could you want?
Sideboard:
I'll be looking at trimming down my sideboard of non-creature permanents and replacing them with tutorable creatures where possible. Mark of Asylum might stay due to its overwhelming power in matches sure as Jeskai and Grixis and their Bolt-Snap-Bolt and Electrolyze plays. Also, Izzet Staticaster and Ghirapur Aether Grid just ruin our day. MoA also shuts off Valakut decks with Aven Mindcensor. Rest in Peace can be very strong against graveyard dependent decks if you get it early. Against Dredge it is usually too late if it isn't in your opening hand or first couple draws. The better bet for this matchup is to race it to a strong. board and then overwhelm them. Selfless Spirit to help with Conflagrate and a strong board will usually do it. Midrange decks usually have a way to remove RiP and then refill their graveyard. I will be playtesting a Loaming Shaman as a CoCo hit or Chord target in response to Narcomoeba, Prized Amalgam, or Bloodghast triggers. It can also help against weakening Goyfs, cutting Grim Flayer off delirium, and removing Snapcaster targets at instant speed. Scavenging Ooze can help do these things as well, but other times it can't eat an entire graveyard at once when it's needed. Stony Silence was helpful in stalling Affinity, but it does not stop Affinity. I'll be looking at adding Kataki, War's Wage back in. I really like Fracturing Gust, but the cost is sometimes too much, and isn't tutorable. I will probably add a second Rec Sage to the board as well.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast is extremely narrow, only good against one Infect, and Inkmoth in Affinity. Boy, did I need her. Melira saved my butt so many times it's not even funny. She may be narrow, but don't leave home without her. Dismember was definitely the card that came in the most, and I put it to great use against infect. Two seemed sufficient, but I might add a third if there's a slot. Phyrexian Revoker definitely helped in the Affinity match I won, shutting off Cranial Plating and Steel Overseer. Also can block Etched Champion if it comes down to it. It also has a lot of other uses and I highly recommend it. Selfless Spirit is an all-star and I will find a spot in my main for it. May have a 2nd in my board is well. Chameleon Colossus is really good in the Dredge and Midrange matchups. I only saw him once, but that game did not much last longer. Aven Mindcensor and Eidolon of Rhetoric didn't come in over the weekend, but that is mainly because I didn't see the matchups they're best for. Aven may come in against 3-colored decks after sideboard changes, but for now there just wasn't room. Eidolon is really good for the Ad Nauseum, Storm, and cascade (Living End/Restore Balance) decks.
I'll post with updates as they come along.
Feel free to ask any questions you have, pose ideas, or comment on anything you like or dislike. I've learned a lot from this forum, and hope others can do the same from me.
I am very interested in your list. It will be nice if you also put a short summary of the tournament.
I'm home now and got some rest, and now back to the drawing board! I decided it will be easiest to separate this into two posts. One for the tournament, and a second for things going forward. I've got some changes already in mind for the deck, but I was really happy with the list I ran this weekend. I ended 11-4 overall for the 2nd GP in a row which felt a little disappointing after starting 8-1.
As you all know I went on stream Day 2 against Phil Napoli, and I will openly say that was not my best moment. I don't usually let things get to me, but I got very nervous being on stream and did not play my best. Game 1, as soon as I scooped I remembered the CoCo in my hand and if I had hit Spellskite I could have likely swung the game in my favor. Game 2 I still feel confident in my opening hand because I did not expect a Dismember and there were plenty of draws that would have been good, but I drew a lot of high drop cards. I also should not have bluffed with an attack that cost me my Dwynen's Elite, but the Grafdigger's Cage he played the turn before I found mana for CoCo sealed my fate.
Day 2 pairings
RD 10 Grixis Delver 2-0
RD 11 Naya Burn 2-1
RD 12 Affinity 0-2 (Turn 3'd by lethal Inkmoth G1 and G2)
RD 13 Infect 0-2 (Phil Napoli on stream)
RD 14 Infect 2-1
RD 15 Jund 0-2 (Steve Rubin; applied a lot of pressure, but mainboard Anger G1 and heavy removal with Bob G2 got it.)
I won about half of my games with Shaman of the Pack and the other half With Ezuri, Renegade Leader.
I grinded a lot of testing in the previous month and it certainly paid off. I tested against Infect and Dredge a lot, and I think it showed with my 5-1 record against infect. I even lost 5/6 game 1s against infect and went on to win games 2 and 3 in 4/5 of those matches. When I playtest I usually play my list versus every list I can imagine and get my hands on, but also try and play every list versus someone playing my elves deck. This allows me to understand how each deck tries to win and what they will try to do to stop me from winning. The deck I struggled against the most was Affinity, but both losses had nut hands that I'm not sure any sideboard or mainboard changes could have changed those results.
I'm going to GP Dallas and I'm looking at a small black splash in my GW build. I'm only looking at playing 2-3 Shamans, and wonder if anyone can tell me their experience on what number of Shamans is enough to usually get the job done. I usually play 3 Ezuris and eventually one sticks and I use either Nykthos or Archdruid to finish the game. However, I've seen a lot of lists cutting the 3rd Ezuri and running 3-4 Shamans. So how often do you still win with Ezuri, and is only having 2 Ezuris enough?
R1 Scapeshift
R2 Melira Company
R3 Scapeshift
R4 Kiki Chord
R5 Kiki Chord/Melira Company
T8-1 Devoted Elves
T8-2 GB Elves
T8-3 Tooth and Nail
I've yet to play against Scapeshift. How is that MU for us usually?
Scapeshift is usually awful in my experience.
Worst matchups are Jeskai (Electrolyze, Snap, Bolt), Grixis (isn't quite as bad but similar), RG Tron, and Scapeshift.
Scapeshift will fairly often play mainboard Anger of the Gods and definitely does in the board. Turn 2 Mark of Asylum stops bolts, Anger, Valakut triggers long enough to build a board or land Aven.
I was the one who got 1st at the Overland Park Super IQ. There were a total of 5 Elf lists, 4 of which made top 8. My list is nearly identical to the one I took to GP Indy and went 11-4. GW still seems so good to me and I don't miss Shaman one bit.
Congrats on your finish! Sometimes old is gold, eh? Selfless spirit is such a godsend.
Selfless Spirit is indeed amazing. My favorite sideboard card right now is probably Mark of Asylum. With Mark and Aven my Scapeshift opponents conceded immediately.
I was the one who got 1st at the Overland Park Super IQ. There were a total of 5 Elf lists, 4 of which made top 8. My list is nearly identical to the one I took to GP Indy and went 11-4. GW still seems so good to me and I don't miss Shaman one bit.
The changes I'm thinking of making are:
-2 Path to Exile- Seemed underwhelming and never seemed necessary except against maybe infect which we have Melira and Skite for.
-1 Fracturing Gust- Mainboard Rec Sage, Skite, and sideboarded 2 Stony Silences, 1 Fracturing Gust should be sufficient for Affinity.
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll - Can't be countered and can't be killed. Only possible removal is Verdict if tapped out or Wrath of God.
+2 Mark of Asylum - Stop Bolts, Electrolyze, Lightning Helix, as well as Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods.
Any other ideas to help the Jeskai decks? Other sideboard options in general?
Have you tried the Gb lists and/or Gw Lead? Did you miss SotP at all?
I own and have tried pretty much every elf brew imaginable (yes, even the awful Forbidden Orchard/Beck & Call combo version). I think we can all agree Collected Company is here to stay for awhile. As for Lead vs. Chord I think they have two very different purposes and are better in different metas. My local meta is a lot of wraths (Pyroclasm, Anger, Verdict, Damnation) and I find myself running Leads on occasion to rebuild after a boardwipe. I'd also say it is better in a SotP brew. Chords are better for a general meta in my opinion because they can respond to more decks with silver bullets. Especially if you're worried about combo decks I'd say Chord is far superior. I also found myself winning a lot of games against "fair" decks from Chording for an Archdruid EoT and playing Ezuri for a lethal swing.
I did not miss SotP at all. I looked at my life pad again and the majority of games my opponent went from 15-18 life to dead in a single swing. Shaman would not have helped in most of those cases.
Round 1
RD 1:Jund L 0-2 (0-1)
G1: On draw. He played turn 2 Bob so I flooded the board with elves because I didn't expect a mainboard turn 3 Anger of the Gods. Tarmogoyf hits the board and goes to town. L
G2: He had a perfect mana curve of T1 Bolt my dork, T2 Tarmogoyf, T3 Liliana of the Veil, T4 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and I couldn't build a board fast enough. L
RD 2: Tron W 2-1 (1-1)
G1: On draw. Tron online in 4 turns for Wurmcoil Engine, then T5 Karn Liberated, and finally T6 Oblivion Stone. Blows up O-Stone leaving Wurmcoil tokens to beat me down. L
G2: Flood the board with elves and it's over in four turns. W
G3: Flood the board, Collected Company at the end of his turn 3 and again in my main phase and swing for lethal. W
Opponent said he played Lightning Bolt instead of a wrath and I think that was a mistake.
RD 7: Jund 2-1 (5-2)
G1: On draw he plays perfect man curve. Turn 1 Inquisition hitting my dork, T2 Goyf, T3 Lili, T4 Kalitas. T5 swinging with Raging Ravine as well. L
G2: He has a good curve and gets me down to 2 life, but I CoCo into 2 Archdruids with Ezuri in hand and kill him in one swing. W
G3: I land two Wardens and he ends up Bolting one and Terminating the other after gain ten life from them. He runs out of removal and I build a board and overwhelm him. W
RD 8: Naya Bushwhacker 2-1 (6-2)
G1: He plays T1 Goblin Guide and I play a dork. T2 he strings two Burning-Tree Emissary into Wild Nacatl and Bolt on my dork. I play a new dork and he plays Reckless Bushwhacker to kill me. L
G2: He comes out fast but this time I'm able to block and CoCo into two Archdruids wiping his board and killing him on the next turn.W
G3: We both build a board really fast and with two Collected Company in hand I manage to kill him after going down to 3 life. W
Day 2
RD 10: Dredge 2-0 (8-2)
G1: He couldn't stop T2 Archdruid and T3 Collected Company into Ezuri for a lethal T4 swing. W
G2: I land T2 Rest in Peace and he can't recover while I beat him down with a board of elves. W
RD 12: Jeskai Nahiri 0-2 (9-3)
G1: Bolts, Snapcaster blocks prevented me from doing anything about his T4 Nahiri. Emrakul comes and the game is over. L
G2: Same. L
RD 13: Jeskai Ascendancy Combo 1-2 (9-4)
G1: On draw, he combos on T3 and I have nothing I can respond with. L
G2: He combos on T3 but I'm able to CoCo into Rec Sage to destroy the Ascendancy. He fizzles and loses two Fatestitchers and I beat him down after a couple turns. L
G3: I guess I should have mulliganed for a Path or something to stop him, but he combos on Turn 3 with no response. L
RD 14: Dredge 2-1 (10-4)
G1: Super close game and Essence Warden saved the day. I play Scavenging Ooze which he promptly kills with Conflagrate. He "combos" off getting a big board and gets me down to 2 life before I have to trade creatures leaving him with 1 Narcomoeba. I have an Essence Warden and play a dork to bring me to 2 life. He attacks and takes me to 1 and gets another Narcomoeba by dredging off of Faithless Looting putting me back to 2. I cast Eternal Witness to bring back ScOoze to my hand and take me to 3 life. He attacks to bring me down to 1 and then plays Conflagrate for 1. In response I Chord for an Archdruid to go to 2 life so I don't die. Untap, play ScOoze and eat both of our graveyards and he scoops. W
G2: He comes out super fast and I couldn't stop him. L
G3: I play T2 Scavenging Ooze and he couldn't remove it. I eat every creature he puts in the graveyard for two turns and he scoops. W
RD 15: Naya Zoo 2-0 (11-4)
G1: T1 Noble Hierarch, T2 Noble Hierarch, Wild Nacatl, Qasali Pridemage. T3 Nacatl for 6. I played T1 dork, T2 Ezuri, T3 left mana open for CoCo. She swings with Nacatl and I hit Heritage DruidArchdruid. Block with dork and regen, she bloodrushes Ghor-Clan Rampager to trample over. I then have enough to Overrun and kill her in one swing. W
G2: She plays T1 Kird Ape T2 Goyf and gets a couple attacks in. I play T2 Archdruid with two Paths in hand. She doesn't play a T3 creature so on my turn I play a couple elves off of Archdruid and pass. She still doesn't play another creature so I Path both of her creatures during combat and start beating her down over a couple turns. W
Quick info about me and Elves:
I've been playing Elves since May 2015 and it's the only Modern deck I've played. I started with Cloudstone Curio combo elves and still play it for other small modern events for fun. My other most notable performance is 3rd Place in an IQ this year and you can find the list here.
This was my first GP and overall I'm very happy with how I ended up and loved this list. This list had large influence from Liam Lonergan's @Coasterfreak99 list and I feel like every card held its worth. The notable swap of Nettle Sentinel for Essence Warden didn't seem to limit my explosiveness and actually saved me in quite a few games. Essence Warden in the main also allowed me to add two Stony Silence and Rest in Peace to the board instead of the sideboarded Warden and Finks which yielded great results. I also took out Kataki, War's Wage for Selfless Spirit. I didn't play against Affinity or Burn so I can't say for sure how they would have gone, but I felt pretty confident against them going in.
I don't feel like I could have done much else against the three Jeskai decks, but I'll be looking at anything I may be able to do in this matchup in the future. I was realistically 1 win out of prizes (top 64), but 117th out of 1900+ people wasn't too bad.
Thanks Larriepogi!
One of the guys in my playtesting group is a BGx Midrange player (switches between Abzan and Jund). I feel like mine is streamlined for this match in particular with a lot of mainboard and sideboard tech. I would say Abzan is typically much easier than Jund because it doesn't have access to Kalitas, Huntmaster, or Anger. Siege Rhino, Anafenza, and Damnation just aren't as worrisome.
Main:
Essence Warden can be very difficult when they can't attack and put pressure on me to block or risk low life.
Shaman of the Pack threatens to end the game quickly if they fetch and shock too often or allow me to chip too much life away.
I run 3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader for redundancy in this matchup.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is a good psuedo-Archdruid when they keep killing the real one.
I'll be running a Selfless Spirit main for a while, but it should help against mainboard Anger, protect a creature, or allow me to attack/block favorably.
Spellskite is almost always killed on sight, eliminating a kill spell.
Scavenging Ooze is a must-answer threat or it will shrink Goyfs, Flayers, and hit heavy.
Sideboard:
Chameleon Colossus is a nightmare for Jund and troublesome for Abzan. Jund simply can't remove it without double bolt or Damnation, and it can often kill them in one swing. Abzan's only answer is Path to Exile so I will try and bait any Paths out of their hand before I play him.
Elvish Champion is a must kill or I will almost always kill them immediately.
BGx games usually come down to experience in the matchup and whether they are able to draw enough removal for every must-answer threat. Even one creature living a single turn can sometimes put it way in your favor. It may not look good on paper to some, but I feel very confident in these matchups.
Jeskai Control is usually more difficult than Nahiri, but it really just comes down to how many cards like Electrolyze, Forked Bolt, and Izzet Staticaster they are running.
Nahiri, the Harbinger can he hated on by our sideboard Phyrexian Revoker and Aven Mindcensor, or can simply be killed if we are allowed to establish a board.
These decks are the main reason I run Mark of Asylum outside of the Scapeshift matchup.
Scavenging Ooze can be really strong if it gets past Bolt range.
Eidolon of Rhetoric can stop Snapcaster Mage and survives Bolt, but you have to be careful you don't slow yourself down too much.
Dismember takes care of Celestial Colonnade and that pesky Izzet Staticaster.
I typically hold out on playing CoCo or Chord until they tap out and can't counter it. I will not pretend it is a good matchup, but I always keep in mind that I have the advantage and will win much faster unless they can stop me.
I always expect to be playing a lot of BGx, but if I know I'll start playing more Jeskai I might start packing Lead the Stampede in the board, a Thrun, the Last Troll, or a 3rd Mark of Asylum.
I know I usually have long posts. Do you guys like the details or do you want shorter and to the point?
Thanks Feinunze!
Mark of Asylum didn't have a lot of use against the decks I faced except Affinity and Jund. Mark is best against repeatable damage from things like Ghirapur Æther Grid and Izzet Staticaster in addition to bolts and Anger/Pyroclasm. I'll be playtesting soon whether spot removal for the repeatable offenders and having a Selfless Spirit in the main and/or board is sufficient for sweepers. The toughest question will be on protecting Aven Mindcensor against Valakut decks. I would probably run Stain the Mind before I ran Thoughtseize.
1. Very good question! I ran essentially 7 black sources for Shaman of the Pack, which typically if I want to start casting it from hand I feel like I wanted to start doing so around turn 5. With 7 sources I had about an 80% chance of having the black source I needed to cast the Shaman, but this formula doesn't account for the chance of me actually having a Shaman in hand. There is just under a 50% chance of me having a Shaman of the Pack in my hand by turn 5 with the 3 copies I ran. Thus, in the 20% of games that I did not have a black source, only half of those did I actually have a Shaman in hand that I could not cast. This equates to about 90% of games being where I either do have a black source, or I do not have a Shaman in hand.
One other reason for only 3 Gilt-Leaf Palace is that my sideboard is primarily white. If I wanted a 4th, I would most likely have to cut a Razorverge Thicket and would have lowered my chances of playing the sideboard cards I drew. If I decided on running the 4th Shaman of the Pack I would most likely run the 4th Gilt-Leaf and try to trim the white in the sideboard.
2. I decided I wanted to run a removal spell in my sideboard. I chose Dismember based on looking for the best card that met what I was looking for between cost, downsides, and situations where it can or needs to be used. The main contenders were Path to Exile, Dismember, and Gut Shot. The main situations where I like removal spells are for removing an infect creature, a dork in the mirror, and killing creatures that cause us continuous trouble such as Kalitas, Izzet Staticaster, or Olivia Voldaren.
Path to Exile although only 1 mana, it requires white mana which can be a little more difficult to cast at times. Its downside is that it gives my opponent a land, but since I am a ramp deck this usually isn't too bad. However, this ramping does make casting it early in the game extremely dangerous. It is more versatile in removal than most spells, but having such a harsh downside in the early game against an opposing infect creature or dork in the mirror can cause a lot of problems.
Dismember can be as little as 1 mana, and that mana is colorless. Its downside is usually (honestly almost always) paying 4 life to kill something. Against infect life is usually not relevant. Against the mirror speed is everything and spending one mana to kill a turn 1 dork or turn 2 Archdruid can be back-breaking. Other big threats like Kalitas would make our lives miserable and deal much more damage than the 4 we are paying so I don't usually see it as a huge detriment. Dismember will kill the majority of creatures that we need it to.
Gut Shot is always paying 2 life. This is very convenient in being able to cast it alongside a turn 1 dork to kill your opponents Glistener Elf or dork. The biggest issue is that infect could potentially decide that it is worth saving the creature and spending a buff spell such as Mutagenic Growth on it. It easily kills a turn 1 dork, but an Archdruid or Kalitas are going to stick around and cause us troubles.
After taking this into account I thought Dismember was the most reliable card for me to play.
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Heritage Druid
4x Essence Warden
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Elvish Archdruid
3x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3x Shaman of the Pack
1x Elvish Champion
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
Lands (18):
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Horizon Canopy
3x Gilt-Leaf Palace
2x Forest
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Mark of Asylum
2x Dismember
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Chameleon Colossus
Yes, I will definitely be making some changes. First I want to explain some of my choices for this GP.
Mainboard
Notable Exclusions:
Nettle Sentinel: This card is good, but there are times it just isn't great. If you're stringing elves together to dump your hand it's great and you can end a game quickly. Other times it is a 2/2 that you're casting an elf every turn so it can untap and attack. I play Essence Warden instead.
Elvish Visionary: This card has always seemed lackluster. It costs 2 mana and gives you a vanilla 1/1 body. Yes it replaces itself, but no other elf in my entire deck is as weak of a play as this card. It's usually a terrible topdeck and it kills a chain when stringing elfs. I cut them altogether and did not miss them one bit.
Eternal Witness: This card is extremely powerful to buy back Chord of CoCo. However, if I have the mana to be stringing plays like that together I am winning the game anyway. There are other times when it sits in my hand with no target, it comes out when I play RiP, and it isn't an elf or a strong body in play.
Lead the Stampede: The best card that will win you most attrition matches. The problem is that most turns you cast it, you can't actually play any of the creatures you now have in your hand. You're tapped out, produced no immediate board presence, and revealed information about essentially every card in your hand.
I don't think I need to explain the power of Heritage, Archdruid, dorks, Dwynen's Elite, or CoCo.
Notable Inclusions
Essence Warden: I cannot begin to explain how powerful this card can be. I've been running it for a few months now and it has always been very strong against burn, aggro, and midrange decks. The incremental lifegain is very hard to deal with and if they start removing them, they start to run out of removal for the threats that end the game.
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader: Most lists I see run only 2 Ezuris. I have almost always run three and it's always felt like the right amount. I never mind drawing a 2nd copy and it is either removed or it will end the game.
Shaman of the Pack: Ezuri is plan A for me. Shaman is a very strong plan B. Playtested 2 at first, didn't seem like it was always enough to kill without already getting help from combat or painful landbases. 3 worked out really well, might try to work in a fourth, but I don't want to cut Ezuri for it.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx: Nykthos can grind out a bunch of elves, help string CoCos or chords with few untapped permanents, and overrun without an Archdruid. I've seen recommendations for Westvale Abbey, but I don't think this is where I'd ever want to be. I feel like it's dumping all your eggs in one Pathable basket when you should be wary of a sweeper and try to protect yourself with a Selfless Spirit or not overextend.
Chord of Calling: I love this card. Sometimes I feel it is more powerful than CoCo. Gets me exactly the card I want. I have Ezuri in hand? Chord for Archdruid. Opponent at 7 with 6 elves in play? Chord for Shaman. Opponent comboing for the win? Chord for a silver bullet target. Opponent cast a sweeper? Chord for Selfless Spirit.
Selfless Spirit: I have no doubt this card deserves a spot in my main. Mainboard Anger of the Gods in Jund, Engineered Explosives in Eldrazi, Conflagrate in Dredge, and most other mainboard sweepers need an answer. Can also block Inkmoth Nexus, allow one-sided combat phases, blank a removal to a critical elf, or just swing for 2 in the air. What more could you want?
Sideboard:
I'll be looking at trimming down my sideboard of non-creature permanents and replacing them with tutorable creatures where possible.
Mark of Asylum might stay due to its overwhelming power in matches sure as Jeskai and Grixis and their Bolt-Snap-Bolt and Electrolyze plays. Also, Izzet Staticaster and Ghirapur Aether Grid just ruin our day. MoA also shuts off Valakut decks with Aven Mindcensor.
Rest in Peace can be very strong against graveyard dependent decks if you get it early. Against Dredge it is usually too late if it isn't in your opening hand or first couple draws. The better bet for this matchup is to race it to a strong. board and then overwhelm them. Selfless Spirit to help with Conflagrate and a strong board will usually do it. Midrange decks usually have a way to remove RiP and then refill their graveyard. I will be playtesting a Loaming Shaman as a CoCo hit or Chord target in response to Narcomoeba, Prized Amalgam, or Bloodghast triggers. It can also help against weakening Goyfs, cutting Grim Flayer off delirium, and removing Snapcaster targets at instant speed. Scavenging Ooze can help do these things as well, but other times it can't eat an entire graveyard at once when it's needed.
Stony Silence was helpful in stalling Affinity, but it does not stop Affinity. I'll be looking at adding Kataki, War's Wage back in. I really like Fracturing Gust, but the cost is sometimes too much, and isn't tutorable. I will probably add a second Rec Sage to the board as well.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast is extremely narrow, only good against one Infect, and Inkmoth in Affinity. Boy, did I need her. Melira saved my butt so many times it's not even funny. She may be narrow, but don't leave home without her.
Dismember was definitely the card that came in the most, and I put it to great use against infect. Two seemed sufficient, but I might add a third if there's a slot.
Phyrexian Revoker definitely helped in the Affinity match I won, shutting off Cranial Plating and Steel Overseer. Also can block Etched Champion if it comes down to it. It also has a lot of other uses and I highly recommend it.
Selfless Spirit is an all-star and I will find a spot in my main for it. May have a 2nd in my board is well.
Chameleon Colossus is really good in the Dredge and Midrange matchups. I only saw him once, but that game did not much last longer.
Aven Mindcensor and Eidolon of Rhetoric didn't come in over the weekend, but that is mainly because I didn't see the matchups they're best for. Aven may come in against 3-colored decks after sideboard changes, but for now there just wasn't room. Eidolon is really good for the Ad Nauseum, Storm, and cascade (Living End/Restore Balance) decks.
I'll post with updates as they come along.
Feel free to ask any questions you have, pose ideas, or comment on anything you like or dislike. I've learned a lot from this forum, and hope others can do the same from me.
I'm home now and got some rest, and now back to the drawing board! I decided it will be easiest to separate this into two posts. One for the tournament, and a second for things going forward. I've got some changes already in mind for the deck, but I was really happy with the list I ran this weekend. I ended 11-4 overall for the 2nd GP in a row which felt a little disappointing after starting 8-1.
As you all know I went on stream Day 2 against Phil Napoli, and I will openly say that was not my best moment. I don't usually let things get to me, but I got very nervous being on stream and did not play my best. Game 1, as soon as I scooped I remembered the CoCo in my hand and if I had hit Spellskite I could have likely swung the game in my favor. Game 2 I still feel confident in my opening hand because I did not expect a Dismember and there were plenty of draws that would have been good, but I drew a lot of high drop cards. I also should not have bluffed with an attack that cost me my Dwynen's Elite, but the Grafdigger's Cage he played the turn before I found mana for CoCo sealed my fate.
Day 2 pairings
RD 10 Grixis Delver 2-0
RD 11 Naya Burn 2-1
RD 12 Affinity 0-2 (Turn 3'd by lethal Inkmoth G1 and G2)
RD 13 Infect 0-2 (Phil Napoli on stream)
RD 14 Infect 2-1
RD 15 Jund 0-2 (Steve Rubin; applied a lot of pressure, but mainboard Anger G1 and heavy removal with Bob G2 got it.)
I won about half of my games with Shaman of the Pack and the other half With Ezuri, Renegade Leader.
I grinded a lot of testing in the previous month and it certainly paid off. I tested against Infect and Dredge a lot, and I think it showed with my 5-1 record against infect. I even lost 5/6 game 1s against infect and went on to win games 2 and 3 in 4/5 of those matches. When I playtest I usually play my list versus every list I can imagine and get my hands on, but also try and play every list versus someone playing my elves deck. This allows me to understand how each deck tries to win and what they will try to do to stop me from winning. The deck I struggled against the most was Affinity, but both losses had nut hands that I'm not sure any sideboard or mainboard changes could have changed those results.
RD 1 Affinity (Loss)
RD 2 Abzan Midrange
RD 3 Infect
RD 4 RW Prison
RD 5 Affinity
RD 6 Infect
RD 7 Infect
RD 8 Infect
RD 9 UB Mill
I'll post a deck list for sure and a full write-up if anyone wants after day 2.
Scapeshift is usually awful in my experience.
Worst matchups are Jeskai (Electrolyze, Snap, Bolt), Grixis (isn't quite as bad but similar), RG Tron, and Scapeshift.
Scapeshift will fairly often play mainboard Anger of the Gods and definitely does in the board. Turn 2 Mark of Asylum stops bolts, Anger, Valakut triggers long enough to build a board or land Aven.
R1 Scapeshift
R2 Melira Company
R3 Scapeshift
R4 Kiki Chord
R5 Kiki Chord/Melira Company
T8-1 Devoted Elves
T8-2 GB Elves
T8-3 Tooth and Nail
Selfless Spirit is indeed amazing. My favorite sideboard card right now is probably Mark of Asylum. With Mark and Aven my Scapeshift opponents conceded immediately.
2 Path to Exile
2 Fracturng Gust
1 Rest in Peace
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Elvish Champion
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Phyrexian Revoker
The changes I'm thinking of making are:
-2 Path to Exile- Seemed underwhelming and never seemed necessary except against maybe infect which we have Melira and Skite for.
-1 Fracturing Gust- Mainboard Rec Sage, Skite, and sideboarded 2 Stony Silences, 1 Fracturing Gust should be sufficient for Affinity.
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll - Can't be countered and can't be killed. Only possible removal is Verdict if tapped out or Wrath of God.
+2 Mark of Asylum - Stop Bolts, Electrolyze, Lightning Helix, as well as Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods.
Any other ideas to help the Jeskai decks? Other sideboard options in general?
I own and have tried pretty much every elf brew imaginable (yes, even the awful Forbidden Orchard/Beck & Call combo version). I think we can all agree Collected Company is here to stay for awhile. As for Lead vs. Chord I think they have two very different purposes and are better in different metas. My local meta is a lot of wraths (Pyroclasm, Anger, Verdict, Damnation) and I find myself running Leads on occasion to rebuild after a boardwipe. I'd also say it is better in a SotP brew. Chords are better for a general meta in my opinion because they can respond to more decks with silver bullets. Especially if you're worried about combo decks I'd say Chord is far superior. I also found myself winning a lot of games against "fair" decks from Chording for an Archdruid EoT and playing Ezuri for a lethal swing.
I did not miss SotP at all. I looked at my life pad again and the majority of games my opponent went from 15-18 life to dead in a single swing. Shaman would not have helped in most of those cases.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Essence Warden
4 Dwynen's Elite
3 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
4 Chord of Calling
5 Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Pendelhaven
2 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Rest in Peace
1 Elvish Champion
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
Round 1
RD 1:Jund L 0-2 (0-1)
G1: On draw. He played turn 2 Bob so I flooded the board with elves because I didn't expect a mainboard turn 3 Anger of the Gods. Tarmogoyf hits the board and goes to town. L
G2: He had a perfect mana curve of T1 Bolt my dork, T2 Tarmogoyf, T3 Liliana of the Veil, T4 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and I couldn't build a board fast enough. L
RD 2: Tron W 2-1 (1-1)
G1: On draw. Tron online in 4 turns for Wurmcoil Engine, then T5 Karn Liberated, and finally T6 Oblivion Stone. Blows up O-Stone leaving Wurmcoil tokens to beat me down. L
G2: Flood the board with elves and it's over in four turns. W
G3: Flood the board, Collected Company at the end of his turn 3 and again in my main phase and swing for lethal. W
Opponent said he played Lightning Bolt instead of a wrath and I think that was a mistake.
RD 3: Jund W 2-0 (2-1)
G1: Opponent puts a very fast clock on the board with Tarmogoyf and Grim Flayer, but I get Chameleon Colossus down and he can't attack with Grim Flayer. Collected Company into Elvish Archdruid and Dwynen's Elite at the end of his turn. Tarmogoyf is tapped from attacking and Chameleon Colossus attacks with double buff for lethal. W
G2: Turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek revealing two Collected Company, two Essence Warden, two Forest, and Heritage Druid. He took Heritage Druid but knew this wasn't going to end well. Gained silly amounts of life, played CoCo twice at the end of his fourth turn and killed him. W
RD 4: GW Eldrazi 2-0 (3-1)
G1: T1 he plays Eldrazi Temple and I knew how this was going to go. He plays A Thought-Knot Seer and a couple Reality Smasher, but I get an Ezuri, Renegade Leader and start blocking with regeneration to minimize damage. Then I Collected Company into a Heritage Druid and Elvish Archdruid blocking and tapping everyone to Overrun with Ezuri wiping his board. Next turn swing for lethal. W
G2: I play T2 Archdruid which he Paths. T3 Thought-Knot Seer hitting one of two Collected Company into T4 Eldrazi Displacer. I play Phyrexian Revoker on the Displacer and CoCo into Ezuri blocking and wiping his board again. Two turns and he's dead. W
RD 5: Melira Company W 2-0 (4-1)
G1: I have a board of Elves, but he used Path to Exile on my Ezuri, Renegade Leader. With Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Kitchen Finks on board he Chord of Calling for Viscera Seer. Sacrificing Finks, I Collected Company hitting Scavenging Ooze and eat it in response to persist trigger. He has to block with Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Viscera Seer to live so he scoops. W
G2: T5 He chords for Kitchen Finks as his final piece and I chord for Aven Mindcensor in response. He only finds a 2nd Melira and then he fetches and finds nothing. He doesn't find a response to Aven Mindcensor and I close it out soon after. W
RD 6: Jeskai 0-2 (4-2)
G1: This is a terrible matchup. T1 Bolt my dork. T2 Electrolyze my two creatures. T3 Snap-Bolt my Archdruid. Swing with Snapcaster Mage and Celestial Colonnade until I'm dead. L
G2: Pretty much the same. L
RD 7: Jund 2-1 (5-2)
G1: On draw he plays perfect man curve. Turn 1 Inquisition hitting my dork, T2 Goyf, T3 Lili, T4 Kalitas. T5 swinging with Raging Ravine as well. L
G2: He has a good curve and gets me down to 2 life, but I CoCo into 2 Archdruids with Ezuri in hand and kill him in one swing. W
G3: I land two Wardens and he ends up Bolting one and Terminating the other after gain ten life from them. He runs out of removal and I build a board and overwhelm him. W
RD 8: Naya Bushwhacker 2-1 (6-2)
G1: He plays T1 Goblin Guide and I play a dork. T2 he strings two Burning-Tree Emissary into Wild Nacatl and Bolt on my dork. I play a new dork and he plays Reckless Bushwhacker to kill me. L
G2: He comes out fast but this time I'm able to block and CoCo into two Archdruids wiping his board and killing him on the next turn.W
G3: We both build a board really fast and with two Collected Company in hand I manage to kill him after going down to 3 life. W
RD 9: Ad Nauseum 2-0 (7-2)
G1: I come out really fast and he plays Phyrexian Unlife. I sac two Horizon Canopies and the second draws me into Reclamation Sage. I blow up the Phyrexian Unlife he has to use his Angel's Grace to live. He can't combo off and I kill him next turn. W
G2: He plays Turn 2 Lotus Bloom, but I play T2 Stony Silence. I build up a quick board and he plays Phyrexian Unlife, but I overwhelm him and he dies to infect. W
Day 2
RD 10: Dredge 2-0 (8-2)
G1: He couldn't stop T2 Archdruid and T3 Collected Company into Ezuri for a lethal T4 swing. W
G2: I land T2 Rest in Peace and he can't recover while I beat him down with a board of elves. W
RD 11: Abzan 3-1(9-2)
G1: He gets Tarmogoyf and Siege Rhino and I couldn't stop him. L
G2: I land two Essence Warden and I keep gaining life even through his attacks. I get Chameleon Colossus to stop his Siege Rhino and CoCo into Archdruid and Ezuri. Chameleon Colossus attacks by himself and gets Overrun and then his attack double for a lethal swing. W
G3: T1 dork into T2 Dwynen's Elite and Heritage Druid into Elvish Archdruid. T3 I play Spellskite and Selfless Spirit and CoCo twice at the end of his turn for a second Archdruid and Ezuri and swing for lethal on my turn. After the game he shows me the Damnation in his hand that my Selfless Spirit made useless. W
RD 12: Jeskai Nahiri 0-2 (9-3)
G1: Bolts, Snapcaster blocks prevented me from doing anything about his T4 Nahiri. Emrakul comes and the game is over. L
G2: Same. L
RD 13: Jeskai Ascendancy Combo 1-2 (9-4)
G1: On draw, he combos on T3 and I have nothing I can respond with. L
G2: He combos on T3 but I'm able to CoCo into Rec Sage to destroy the Ascendancy. He fizzles and loses two Fatestitchers and I beat him down after a couple turns. L
G3: I guess I should have mulliganed for a Path or something to stop him, but he combos on Turn 3 with no response. L
RD 14: Dredge 2-1 (10-4)
G1: Super close game and Essence Warden saved the day. I play Scavenging Ooze which he promptly kills with Conflagrate. He "combos" off getting a big board and gets me down to 2 life before I have to trade creatures leaving him with 1 Narcomoeba. I have an Essence Warden and play a dork to bring me to 2 life. He attacks and takes me to 1 and gets another Narcomoeba by dredging off of Faithless Looting putting me back to 2. I cast Eternal Witness to bring back ScOoze to my hand and take me to 3 life. He attacks to bring me down to 1 and then plays Conflagrate for 1. In response I Chord for an Archdruid to go to 2 life so I don't die. Untap, play ScOoze and eat both of our graveyards and he scoops. W
G2: He comes out super fast and I couldn't stop him. L
G3: I play T2 Scavenging Ooze and he couldn't remove it. I eat every creature he puts in the graveyard for two turns and he scoops. W
RD 15: Naya Zoo 2-0 (11-4)
G1: T1 Noble Hierarch, T2 Noble Hierarch, Wild Nacatl, Qasali Pridemage. T3 Nacatl for 6. I played T1 dork, T2 Ezuri, T3 left mana open for CoCo. She swings with Nacatl and I hit Heritage Druid Archdruid. Block with dork and regen, she bloodrushes Ghor-Clan Rampager to trample over. I then have enough to Overrun and kill her in one swing. W
G2: She plays T1 Kird Ape T2 Goyf and gets a couple attacks in. I play T2 Archdruid with two Paths in hand. She doesn't play a T3 creature so on my turn I play a couple elves off of Archdruid and pass. She still doesn't play another creature so I Path both of her creatures during combat and start beating her down over a couple turns. W
Quick info about me and Elves:
I've been playing Elves since May 2015 and it's the only Modern deck I've played. I started with Cloudstone Curio combo elves and still play it for other small modern events for fun. My other most notable performance is 3rd Place in an IQ this year and you can find the list here.
This was my first GP and overall I'm very happy with how I ended up and loved this list. This list had large influence from Liam Lonergan's @Coasterfreak99 list and I feel like every card held its worth. The notable swap of Nettle Sentinel for Essence Warden didn't seem to limit my explosiveness and actually saved me in quite a few games. Essence Warden in the main also allowed me to add two Stony Silence and Rest in Peace to the board instead of the sideboarded Warden and Finks which yielded great results. I also took out Kataki, War's Wage for Selfless Spirit. I didn't play against Affinity or Burn so I can't say for sure how they would have gone, but I felt pretty confident against them going in.
I don't feel like I could have done much else against the three Jeskai decks, but I'll be looking at anything I may be able to do in this matchup in the future. I was realistically 1 win out of prizes (top 64), but 117th out of 1900+ people wasn't too bad.