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  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Midrange works when you’ve got interaction; and you do (Primal Command, Scavenging Ooze, Domri, Voracious Wurm, Thrashing Brontodon, Ruric Thar, etc.)...and that’s all in your main deck!

    Devotion can be built up fast or slow; all that matters is you build the deck to give you time to do it the way you prefer.


    So during my testing with Cavalier I found that I really liked playing a creature with power 4 or Greater with Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner on the battlefield...so I made a list of creatures I wanted to test with. Voracious wurm is definitely one of them Smile

    The first one I really wanted to test; however, would pull double duty in the deck. It is Chancellor of the Tangle.

    I have wanted to play this card for over a year (as the extra mana can be extremely busted and leads to more 4-mana on turn-2 lines.). It didn’t used to be crazy powerful after it’s opening hand value; however drawing a card helps boost its potential.

    You’ll notice a very similar “core” (the Walker deck stays the same with about 10 cards changing Smile ) but Chancellor speeds it up a bit.

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    These Unbound Flourishing lists are awesome. I wanted that card when it was spoiled; but stopped myself from pre-ordering it (as they started them at like $49 each!). Now it is reasonable though; so I may brew a list up as well just to try it out Smile

    Keep us up-to-date on how they play.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    What a cool deck!

    - I could see how Genesis Hydra isn’t at its best here. A lot of your payoff’s are X-spells (which he doesn’t hit). Hitting a walker is amazing (especially when you can reset a Nykthos and keep a chain going) but I can see why it’s not at its best here (as you really want it to hit a 5+ drop to get crazy value).

    - I’ve been going back and forth between Ferile Ground and Llanowar Tribe too. Tribe is SOOOO powerful. The only problem is that when bolt is popular it is bad. If they bolt the bird you can’t cast it turn two...then you’re casting it turn 3; but can’t use it until turn 4 (assuming they don’t remove it)...ugh.

    The issue is that if it is so powerful that the deck gets nerfed game one without it; you can’t build worrying too much about the opponent. I could just side it out against heavy removal decks.

    It’s a matter of seeing how many games would be drastically effected by Tribe being either Fertile Ground or Overgrowth. I do play a lot of walkers that untap lands; so that is also something that factors into my decision.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Some Testing Results

    1. Vivien didn’t feel “fast” enough. It was great to deal with Narset, Teferi’s, Liliana’s, etc. (and I killed some creatures too)...but I found my self ticking her up a lot more and while it made some tiny creatures into threats; it was never truly backbreaking to the opponent.

    Seems like it may just be a 1-of and/or sideboard option unless the deck is built around her specifically (like a Stompy build).I think I just didn’t have the build she would flourish in as well.

    2. Cavalier of Thorns has been very powerful. There are so many wild lines he creates:

    - I’ve had a couple games he got a Nykthos off his trigger, that I could then trigger to go nuts. The fact that the land comes into play untapped is huge.

    - His draw off Kiora BB has been very useful. Many turns he came down, got a Land and drew a card.

    - I built a deck very similar to the one I had been playing just to see how the card fairs. Here is the list and a few thoughts/findings:

    A few random things:

    1. I have tried the deck without Llanowar Tribe for a few reasons:
    • Because the deck tops out at 5-6 CMC (outside of the Karn + Lattice Combo of course) I didn't really need to go higher than that by turn 3 (unless God Hands just won the game)
    • I was also running into a LOT of decks that played bolt or path and Llanowar Tribe was not surviving (or they would "bolt the bird" and I couldn't cast it profitably on turn two.
    • This deck in particular makes use of non-green lands quite a bit (Blast Zone and Nykthos) so you don't always have three green mana on turn 2.
    • Because I play Kiora, Arbor Elf, and Garruk; land enchantments are huge.

    Even with all of the above; it may still be better to play Llanowar Tribe Smile It is that powerful. This is just a slightly different deck in terms of its play patterns than the Wave deck; so its ramp package also is different.

    2. The deck obviously has a heavy lands focus (using the two main creatures to tutor up lands for their utility).

    3. It’s possible a deck like this doesn’t want the Karns (like your win-con focus should be on the creatures). Obviously it will take a lot of time to know what the best way to play the card would be (if we play it). I just ported it in due to its power with Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner in particular.

    I haven’t tested nearly enough for any definitive claims...I can with confidence say that both Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner and Karn, the Great Creator are amazing :)...But beyond that I have a lot more to test..

    Quote from Aethelianmage »
    Went to a little Wednesday Night Modern at my LGS, not a big tournament but it's the only thing I've been able to get to since Horizons dropped. Playing that Naya Eladamri's Call Tooth and Nail list from upthread.

    R1: Infect 1-2
    G1: This one was close, and came down to me drawing land. I didn't.
    G2: A quick tooth and Nail wins this one.
    G3: This was a learning experience. I died with call in hand and my only ballista in my graveyard. I need more than one tutorable removal effect in the 75 I think.

    R2 WU Control 2-1
    G1: I lost in typical 'they stick a Teferi' fashion.
    G2: His first two lands are Colonnades, so end of his second turn I call Magus of the Moon. He finds an Island later but it doesn't save him.
    G3: I win with fast beats backed up by Scavenging Ooze locking down the graveyard.

    R3 Spirits 2-1
    G1: I flooded out and died.
    G2 and G3 I win with prime time beats and a 7/7 ballista in there somewhere. I don't remember which game though. Playing an early titan and threatening to Wolf Run their face is a good way to win this matchup.

    2-1 overall

    Takeaway: Eladamri's Call is very good. I have been super impressed with the flexibility it gives the deck, especially in post-board games. I still don't think I have the exact right mix of tutor targets, and which go main vs side. I think I want more creatures in the sideboard in general, though. I'll test more and work it out as I go.

    EDIT: Has anyone seen Veil of Summer? I'm not sure what to make of it yet, but that card looks crazy to me. In the right matchup, it's a 2-for-1 for 1 mana. And it's super versatile too. It protects me, and all of my permanents, and makes my spells uncounterable. It does so much for 1 mana.

    One of my concerns with Veil of Summer is that, because my deck is so proactive and reliably uses all of its mana the first two turns of the game, Veil of Summer might lose a lot of its effectiveness since, if I'm always tapping out, I won't have any mana up to stop any errant Thoughtseize or Fatal Push. Anywho, I think it's worth seriously considering as a sideboard card. It still has so much going for it.

    I'm pretty hyped about this one. I've looked at Autumn's Veil before as a way to deal with some bad matchups, but that card just doesn't do enough. Veil of Summer is so much stronger.

    2-1 is great! Well done. Infect sometimes just gets its nut draws and is one of those Modern decks that unless you have the answer by turn 2 you are screwed...if you see it enough, so you could even use Call to tutor up Melira, Sylvok Outcast! That said, you can board for it if it becomes a bigger part of the meta.

    I agree that Eladamri's Call seems like a strong addition to Modern (and to multiple Devotion decks). Being instant speed is a big deal; but for big mana decks even casting it at sorcery speed is often fine.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)

    Vivian is such an interesting card. Loving all the green-heavy costs in this set. I know it’s a little slow (more of kinda a control card); but it fills some holes:

    • Creature removal without losing a creature (not a fight...just straight "deal damage"...)
    • Planeswalker removal
    • Gives fatties trample that don't have it.
    • Pumps smaller guys (turns a Llanowar tribe into 5/5 with trample).
    • Can get ANY creature from the board (can play a Hornet Queen, Ouphe, Spellskite even a Craterhoof in board if you wanted etc.).

    Fun with some of my favorite pet card (Genesis Hydra and Reverent Hunter)...but more importantly strong with a lot of non-trample fatties. This is the type of card I love (even if it is a little slow for Modern). Funnily enough, it’s good with Cavalier (can turn it into a 7/8 trampler) great curve for standard. So much fun to brew with...and 3 Devotion:). 4-cmc is a good number as well. Of course I’ll try it out...but if I'm being completely honest I will be surprised if it makes the cut.

    Now..the draw backs...

    • Does stone cold nothing on an open board. She needs creatures to do anything.
    • Not as aggressive/fast as the deck tends to be (neither of the abilities are guaranteed backbreaking)
    • Can’t immediately get a creature from the board (without proliferate, etc.) like Karn can

    Those are some big hurdles that push it out of “staple” territory and more into “cool in specific meta/situations” card. This is what I call a “going in the Devotion box” card. The power level is enough to see play; but you gotta make the most of the abilities. Granted; we tend to have creatures to use the +1 on (so this is not a huge worry)..,and we can get it on the board by turn two. Even with this, however, it is sill not a "plan A" card. I would like to hear from those that play Pact lists, however. Does this fit well in your deck?

    I do think a Stompy build would love this. A pump that also gives trample while ticking up (with removal in a pinch) while also adding 3-Devotion...seems like a great card for a Stompy build. Who knows...there could be a strong build that curves Nissa, Voice of Zendikar into Vivien Arkbow Ranger, into Walking Ballista and is great Smile

    Could also just be a great 1-of in a creature heavy meta (or a potential sideboard option).

    Cavalier of Thorns may actually end up being better for the deck...We discussed it a littleabove; but thus far It has been quite strong in my limited testing. It's kind of a smaller, cheaper, faster Primeval Titan.

    I'm loving all of the mono-color heavy cards in the set. It almost feels like there are too many mon-color heavy cards to be going to Theros again! Haha. Like there’s too much Devotion! I hope this means we are back to Theros or a new plane that utilizes the Devotion mechanic (which would be unreal for us Devotion players of course).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ccc1522 »
    How are you guys faring vs hogaak? i havent been able to play lately but have been keeping up with the meta and that deck seems bursty as all hell.

    Also on unrelated note, when are we supposed to be shut down?

    I haven't played against the deck a ton yet because I haven't played online lately. The games I have played have seemed fairly straight forward. We are basically worried about Bridge from Below and Alter of Dementia. Alter being the most important card for us to counter or remove. With our pressure and our counter magic we can deal with most creature based attacks. Alter can mill us quickly though. We are definitely a dog in game 1 most of the time, especially if they are on the play.

    I don't think it's that unwinnable by any means, but if it sticks around we may be looking at playing additional copies of Rest in Peace. I do think something from this deck will be banned at the next announcement. Because Hogaak and Alter are new I think it may be bridge that gets the ban.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Good Luck at GP Barcelona! We will all be rooting for you.

    Here are the changes I would make

    Fact or Fiction
    Ral, Storm Conduit
    Jeskai Charm

    Move Grim Lavamancer to the sideboard and cut Auriok Champion

    2nd copy of Force of Negation
    3rd copy of Opt

    Cuts from board
    -Vendilon Clique
    -Pillage (may not be enough on it's own)
    -Disdainful stroke
    -Anger of the Gods (depending on meta)

    You also have room to cut a helix and run 3 copies if you need another cut or if you want to keep jeskai charm in the deck. These changes would give you a little more consistency in draws. I have also heard some people saying the baby Teferi, Time Raveler has been somewhat unimpressive in the main board so he may be better in the board too. Let us know how he has played so far for you.

    A lot of the changes will depend on the meta as well. If Hogaak is still legal in it's current setup you will have to make sure you are well prepared for it. You would likely need another copy of RIP and/or surgical.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Cavalier of Thorns was spoiled today, and while community reaction to it has mostly been negative, I think the card is actually quite good. In fact, having previously reviewed green's 5-drops, I think Cavalier of Thorns might even be one of the best.

    Reach — I'm glad this has reach instead of trample. Ramp decks backpedal a lot, and the 5/6 body combined with reach makes it so that the Cavalier can mitigate pressure that other cards wouldn't be able to. It also isn't important that the Cavalier lacks trample. As a 5-drop, Cavalier of Thorns is a stepping stone. I'm not trying to win the game with it, so I don't care if it can push through damage. What I do care about is whether or not it puts me in a better position the next turn. Trample doesn't do that, but the entire package surrounding Cavalier of Thorns (reach included) does.

    ETB, Elvish Rejuvenator — Not a perfect analogy. The land the Cavalier finds comes into play untapped. The remaining cards are also binned instead of being bottomed. Still, the two effects are similar. Having played Elvish Rejuvenator before, I can attest that digging five cards deep is enough to rarely brick with the ability but nothing more. It effectively amounts to getting a random land. With that said, this is still a nice ability to have. Although ramping isn't usually what I want on a 5-drop, it isn't so bad when it's bundled together with the rest of Cavalier's abilities. In the instances where I make it to 5 on turn 3 but not to 6 or 7, I may have a hand full of bombs and not enough mana to cast them. Or maybe an opponent interacted with me, and I would have had enough mana to cast whatever top end is left in my hand, but now I only have 5. That will happen sometimes, and in either case Cavalier of Thorns will help.

    Dies, Reclaim — Putting a card back on top of my deck is a lot less salient than putting it into my hand, but this effect is still a lot better than what people give it credit for. A smattering of fetchlands ensures that Cavalier of Thorns will always have lands at its disposal if I want to make my land drop next turn. The fact that the Cavalier's second ability mulches also means it sets itself up. When the Cavalier is answered (as it often will be), it can find a replacement threat for me to deploy the next turn. That is an extremely important quality to have, and one that shouldn't be understated. If I'm playing a ramp deck, I don't want to invest all of my mana and all of my turns into casting some sort of payoff card only to then see that payoff card answered to no lasting effect. That could mean losing the game. Cavalier of Thorns makes it so that I can follow it up after it dies, something other 5-drops seldom do.

    I have to agree. It’s far better than its currently being considered. Reach (with 6 toughness) is big deal (shores up a big weakness of green decks)...it grabs ANY land from the top five and puts it into play untapped...with the amount of draw effects we can play there are numerous ways to take advantage of his death trigger. by thy point, we will also have ample mana; so being able to put another threat on top is a big deal (helps mitigate the “wrong half” problem ramp decks can run into by ensuring we keep gassing up.

    Of course it may not end up making the cut if the value isn’t fast enough; but it is absolutely worth testing (as 5-CMC is a great spot...and as ArrogantAxolotl said; it’s one of the best 5-cmc green creatures printed). For me at least; the power level is there (and three devotion to boot!)
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ccc1522 »
    perhaps ill move them to the sideboard.

    and well now I have to ask is spell pierce better than flusterstorm?

    I do think that Spell Pierce is currently better than Flusterstorm. I have had a hard time finding the perfect combination of spell pierce/FON in my deck. It used to be a pretty easy split of 2 remand, 2 spell pierce, 1 other counter spell. I am looking for that perfect fit right now.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Not really...I just don't see porting it into current Devotion lists. I think you are on the right track with it. You got rid of the Arbor Elf (I do understand why you kept Utopia Sprawl with playing Garruk, but you may be better off playing another Noble Hierarch or two instead of one ore more just to get the most out of Leyline.). I just don't think Leyeline works in the current Devotion builds...but that just means you get to brew!

    I'm not saying that there is not a Leyline Devotion brew (the card is bonkers in the right build)...just that it doesn't port into the Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl/Llanowar tribe builds. I think there is a Leyline Devotion deck out there. We just have to (get to!) build it. Leylines can work very well with the Devotion mechanic. In this case, I feel like in order to get enough out of the card, you need to build around it. You wanna make sure you always have a mana-dork (not Arbor Elf or Utopia Sprawl), etc.

    I don't think the Leyline lists will look THAT different from the current devotion lists; but they will be different.

    Quote from Semoreh »
    It's pretty slow, isn't it ?

    Could be good but I'll let you test it ^^

    Yes...a little. It helps that it is a 1-drop. There are large downsides. The 2-mana to tap the ability is the biggest one (as it taxes you the turn you tutor and even then the land comes into play tapped). I had always hoped for an ETB "search a land" creatura at 2-3 CMC; but it looks like this is as far as they will go Smile

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    I think you want second and third Force way before third Cryptic and/or second Snare.

    I agree. I would probably add another FON before I would add a third cryptic command. Unless it's more of a conrol oriented deck. Even then I may opt for a second FON before adding a third cryptic.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    On Leyline:

    I think Leyline would just require an entirely different build (no Arbor Elf, nonUtopia Sprawl, etc.) and possibly a means to obtain infinite mana (to make its creature pump ability a win-con)

    There is absolutely nothing wrong brewing a new build...just if you are building with Leyline you can’t just port it in to existing builds. It will require its own build.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Elvish Reclaimer is a really interesting way to get Nykthos and any utility land (Blast Zone, Wolf Run, Ghost Quarter, etc.) in play quickly. Like a cheaper (but less ramp/huge) KOR (that also doesn’t require white).

    It’s Super powerful (seems Modern-pushed) but i don’t know what we would cut to use it :). The lists are so tuned now that there aren’t a ton of slots left). We also don’t HAVE to have Nykthos anymore to get to 6-7 mana by turn 3; so it is less of an early imperative than it used to be...but a Nykthos tutor is a huge deal when stuck to a 1-drop permanent....Ugh...

    There are definite downsides though...summoning sick, takes 2-mana to activate, AND the land comes into play tapped. Granted, we can untap it with Kiora and Garruk (I cant count the games I’ve cast Prime Time to grab a Nykthos and untapped it)...but that is a lot of hoops to jump through to tutor a Land.

    I imagine this is about as good as we are gonna get for a Nykthos tutor; so at minimum I’m going to test it. It’s an ability we can really take advantage of stuck to a good body that pays for itself with Nykthos in play. I’ll let everyone know how it goes.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ccc1522 »
    Ive been thinking alot and I feel that FoN would be perfect to run alongside spell snare.

    Often spell snare is so so useful. And often it sits dead in hand. I feel its the perfect spell to pitch to FoN.

    Just a thought.

    That’s actually a really great thought. You are exactly right. Snare is often amazing or useless. Spell pierce is similar although not as bad. FON definitely makes those spells easier to include.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    So the Green Leyline is...interesting. It’s a lot of hoops and I don’t think Arbor Elf counts as a mana ability; so the deck would have to be built differently to take advantage of it. Doesn’t fit in my deck; but could see someone building around it (Twoo built a Leyline Devotion deck years ago with the other green Leylines and this one at minimum fits better in that deck...)

    It would make for some REALLY fun brews though Smile There are silly things you can do if you start with 2-devotion (or 4 if you hit two in your opening hand!) Smile

    Having said this...man does it seems like we are going back to Theros! Just seems like a lot of Theros plants. Fingers crossed.
    Posted in: Big Mana
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