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  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from TheThominator »
    Quote from Rendroc »
    The problem with Leyline is that you have to build around it a bit, which requires making sacrifices. It’s also makes the deck lack consistency, since the deck is much worse without it in the opening. I built was is probably the best Modern version of the Leyline Devotion though.





    Now that I look at it, the deck could be fine tuned a a bit more, since I have 4x Finale the sideboard could be adjusted to take better advantage of that. Adding a Shalai, Voice of Plenty main deck is probably correct.

    You can replace Finale with Chord fo Calling, not sure which is better for this deck.


    This kind of response is what I am talking about. It seems that the original and persistent version of mono-green devotion (as indicated by nearly 400 pages here) is married to the sprawl / dryad combo. It doesn't want to take the small next step and just become a devoted devastation deck, and is more like a ramp deck in green.

    I think that leyline strategies have a lot of nuance that is still to be explored, including the advantage present with the London mulligan, as well as considering this deck to be more combo than ramp/grind. I have been playing a stock version of Sam Black's deck which consistently (whether it's leyline + dork or Emissary + Nykthos) powers a PW on T2/3 which if survives pulls a bullet from the sideboard to dramatically impact the game. That style of play makes the extra mana that Devotion can generate a "bonus", making nearly every top deck after that potentially game winning (whether another Karn to play/fetch/play, or one of the 6 X creatures, or even a Leyline, which makes all your baddies bigger without having to splash white for Shalai.

    In fact, one of the only reasons why I don't think that this deck is played more now is that it is susceptible to cheap removal (so early starts struggle when the dorks get bolted/pushed). Of course, I would imagine that's a problem in the original builds as well.

    Regardless, I am glad to have discovered this archtype and am excited to play in it (coming from a previously energetic G/B Elves player).

    Playing Leyline does not protect you from cheap removal (as you are left with a do-nothing engine card if they kill your dork)...but I do agree with you that the Leyline decks have nuances and lines we have not fully explored here. I’m excited to see your continued thoughts and lists!

    The Leyline decks absolutely have just as much potential as Sprawl/Garruk decks. It will just take time for us to fully explore them. I think the "Leyline Package" is somewhat (not completely) interchangeable for the "Sprawl" package and we all still play very similar win-cons/payoffs for our ramp...but there are differences that do make for slightly different game play between the decks. You make some really great points. Can't wait to hear more! Please let us know how your deck does if you have the time.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Aethelianmage »
    I’m trying to make a Karn list. A few questions for those who have played it:

    - The idea is to get a 4-drop walker down on T2 as often as possible. Right now I’m on elf-sprawl because the Leyline builds seem like there’s too much a difference between hands with and without the line. This accurate? Is the power of the good hands worth it?

    - is taking a cue from other turbo-Karn decks and playing spirit guides a good idea?

    - I’m thinking about Chandra, Torch of Defiance as a backup threat to Karn. She ramps and draws cards, but doesn’t end the game super fast. Is there a better way to end games in this deck? Does it even need anything other than Karn?

    Thanks


    Hey There! Wanted to post as I've been playing Karn since it was spoiled and think it is the best win-con available to us.

    To answer your questions:

    1. I have not found there to be a need for Spirit Guides. I think you could build with them (for more potential turn-2 Karns); but you may run into an issue of running out of cards in multiple matches. As long as you get enough card draw in there; you would be ok. I don't think they are necessary; but I see where you are going.

    2. If you are playing a Turbo-Karn list with Spirit Guides, I think Chandra is a good inclusion as it can help give you things to do once you've burned through your hand.

    3. I've won multiple games just attacking the opponent. Karn will win most games (just locking out the opponent happens rather fast). The other ways I tend to win include:
    - Attacking with large hydras
    - Overruning the team with Garruk
    - Building an Elk Army the opponent can deal with (via Oko)
    - Killing the opponent with Direct Damage via Walking Ballista (especially with a Bridge on the board).

    You don't have to add too much in as the cards themselves have enough synergy to win several ways. You list may look different than mine (I've posted it below) but I do think you will naturally have enough win-cons you can get around not having Karns (or them being needled, etc.)

    ______

    I have been playing a Karn deck for months now and:

    1. It often seems a little overpowered. I’ve had many opponents scoop on turn 2 when I play Karn. Karn is busted in Devotion. I know I've made multiple long-winded posts months ago about why I thought Karn was the future of devotion decks (so I won't rehash it here); but it really does change the way we can play.

    2. You act as a “Combo Control” deck as odd as it sounds in many games.

    I hate that my deck plays Karn, Oko, and Once Upon a Time (i feel like I am just playing obvious cards)...but it is the winning-est deck I’ve played/brewed; so I’ve stuck with it :). I do get to play may favorite cards though (Walking Ballista and Genesis Hydra); so I cant complain too much.



    Kinda boring, I know...but it does well.

    I have thought about Ice-Fang Coatl; but I do sometimes cast Wall of Blossoms off BTE so I hesitate to change it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Green Demigod is a GG "draw a card ETB" (like Elvish Visionary) with the "toughness is equal to devotion to green" clause seen on the white demigod...I would be SOOOO happy if that was the card.

    ______

    I am working on a Leyline Karn build now. I’m not certain it is as good/better than the Arbor Elf versions...but it is less weak to Engineered Explosives.

    Leyline decks are actually out-performing Arbor Elf/Sprawl decks right now; so I may switch up my ramp package and try it out. I’m just so used to Sprawl/Garruk that I have played it.

    It would literally just be swapping out Elf, Sprawl, Garruk, and Abundant Growth for Elvish Mystic, Llanowar Elves, Leyline, and Devoted Druid with the payoffs remaining the same for the most part.

    I honestly think you can play either ramp package (whichever works best in your meta).

    ______

    * edit * forgot i had added Vivien to my list. I am currently testing two copies; but don’t have enough results to say it’s worth it. May be a little greedy.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Thoughts/Discussions on Spoilers thus far:

    - New Nylea is cool. Can we do something fun with it?

    I like the cost reduction, but the real draw of the card is the card draw potential. Likely too slow for any real play (as Devotion is just in a different place now...but I do like the card design.

    - Can we break Nyx lotus?

    Seems like a card some decks could play 1-2 of (especially in decks with Kiora’s Follower).

    Seems great in a Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner deck Smile

    I will be testing it tonight and brewing some fun combos Smile
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Hi all. It's the downtime for modern right now and magic in general until Theros comes out. I have noticed that more people are returning to modern part time from pioneer so the doomsday prophecies for modern may be a little overblown. As for my view on this deck nothing has changed. I have actually found the meta to be very good for jeskai delver. I haven't gotten to play a lot recently due to the holiday season, but all in all I have been very happy with the deck.

    It will be very interesting to see what WOTC does in January in terms of bans/unbans. If I were a betting man I would say they will ban Oko and Veil of Secrets. They may also unban twin just to give modern a shot in the arm, but that is doubtful. A ban of Veil would be awesome for us. I have found Oko actually to be very good for us. It slows the game down and is easily answered with counter magic. Also our fliers fly over the 3/3's (unless they become 3/3's themselves).

    I hope to get back on MTGO sometime next week and get some reps in. How is everyone doing?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Klothys, God of Destiny
    In Pioneer (Or Modern I suppose) in a RG deck?

    T1: G source, Mana Dork
    T2: 2nd land, cast Burning-Tree Emissary into Klothys bringing her to 7 devotion.
    T3: Attack for 6 or 7???

    Kinda fast but just for a 4/5 indestructible attacking on turn 3 seems a bit mundane.

    Looks like a Jund card if you ask me.


    Isn’t that only 5 Devotion? 2 for BTE, 1 for Dork, 2 for Klothys...two BTE’s would work (or a Leyline).
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    So what do we think of Klothys?

    - good with fetches for ramp
    - 4/5 for 3 in most Devotion decks
    - graveyard hate that’s free/repeatable

    - no immediate impact
    - only a 4/5 with 5-more Pips than it has.
    - no evasion
    - Legendary

    It is “decent” against a lot of things (graveyard decks, control, burn, etc.). I could actually see it either as a good sideboard card or just good enough in certain meta’s to be worth it.

    Doesn’t feel broken, but decent.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ManDolphin »
    Has anyone tested Stoneforge Mystic in the delver varient recently? I still think that card is great, but I haven't tested it in a while. Something like this is what I was thinking.



    This is about as cookie cutter as I think to make a DelverBlade deck and probably where I would start. If I wanted to include the Archmage's Charm/Mystic Sanctuary/Deprive combination then I think I would start here:



    This was my idea for a DelverBlade deck that includes DMA in it. What I'm most scared of is the mana and you can tell with how I built mine here. @CurdBros: Not gonna lie your mana base also scares me a bit too because I feel, at least in this deck, we want to have access to all our colors by turn 2 or 3. Maybe the 3rd island can be Hallowed Fountain, but I'd have to test the list to see how it feels. Being able to cast Archmage's Charm turn 3 almost feels needed so I'm not sure how the mana will draw out. Let me know what you all think!


    I am in the "building" phase of the mana base. I agree with you. The mana scares me a bunch. I haven't had a problem with it yet, but I really feel like the Sacred Foundry needs to be changed. I really want all of my dual lands to tap for blue. Because all of the white cards are later game cards (helix, geist, and path) I really don't need white mana until turn 3 in most games. I am going to try changing the sacred foundry into a second steam vents or another mystic sanctuary. I also will likely change the glacial fortress as some point. It has been good so far, but I really can't have a land come into play tapped at any point. That's part of the reason I am only running one Mystic Sanctuary.

    My first question with the deck was - Does the cost of the white mana pay off enough to add it to the deck. So far the answer is yet at least in my meta. Having access to multiple lighting helix has been great against aggro decks and burn, especially given that I start most games at 17 after a fetch/shock. Path has been super important in a lot of matchups. Geist is still a question mark. He has won me a lot more games than he has lost for me so he is still in the deck (and he is my favorite creature), but I wouldn't fault anyone for playing clique or another copy of borrower in that slot. Or even Spell Queller which I used to run, but have never fallen in love with.

    I will keep you all posted, but I would love to have any input from all of you about the mana base. You won't hurt my feelings. I respect all of your opinions on here.


    As for Stoneblade. I love the idea. I used to play jeskai stoneblade in legacy when I played legacy. I love that deck. I think it's an excellent option right now. Like you said above, it basically almost builds itself because there are very few card choices after the delvers, snapcasters, SFM package and the necessary removal/counter magic. I would have to try both builds to see which one I like better, but both look awesome. I really think Force of Negation would work well with the card advantage that SFM gives you. Let us know if you like them.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ccc1522 »
    How has bonecrusher been working for you?


    I have really loved having access to Bonecrusher Giant. That was a great recommendation. I cut the copy of Burst Lightning I was running for it. The body actually helps a ton in the midrange matchups. It's also awesome with Royal Scions to have a 6/3 trample, first strike, that costs them 2 damage when they target it with a spell.

    I really have no complaints for the deck right now. It has been running very smoothly. I am running slightly more lands than I usually do because the CMC average has gone up a tad. I have noticed that I have games that go a bit longer and I "flood" a bit more, but it hasn't been a problem. I haven't run out of things to cast and the modern meta has slowed down a lot lately.

    On Thursday I played against devoted druid combo, grixis death shadow, burn, and bant snowblade. Surprisingly no Urza. I was able to 3-1 and lost to what I consider one of the best matchups of the three - death shadow. I will post some game notes when I have more time. I am do some play group practicing tonight so let me know if there are any matchups you guys want me to play against.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on New walker confirmed for theros beyond death
    Quote from 5colors »
    Quote from CurdBros »
    Why did I think Dack died during War of the Spark? I could have swore Dack was killed along with Domri.... I gotta get my Stories straight Smile


    He did, but at the end of the foresaken novel Weird they had a scene where the Wanderer show off a golden mask she is wearing. From that I'm thinking Theros 2 might before the events of War.


    How cool! They could always say he “faked it”, stole something that saved him, went to the afterlife and got out, etc...this is fantasy...no one has to stay dead Smile

    Thanks for the info. That’s cool.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on New walker confirmed for theros beyond death
    Why did I think Dack died during War of the Spark? I could have swore Dack was killed along with Domri.... I gotta get my Stories straight Smile

    The answer seems to me like a non answer...could be old, could be new...it’s like someone saying “do you want steak or fish?” and you respond, “yes”. :). Unfortunately I don’t think it confirms anything (that sneaky Maro!)

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Setessan Champion
    This is a powerful enchantress...already brewing a Devotion deck in my head with Nylea, Champion (giving Champion trample is nice while also being an enchantment), Utopia Sprawl, Abundant Growth, Oath of Nissa, and whatever other goodies we get :).

    Way better than Eidolon in my opinion.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    I love the wolf tribal Smile

    I had forgot about Silverfur Partiasan.

    ______

    SPOILER SEASON HAS BEGUN!!

    And this is a big one :). They did spoil one Green Devotion card thus far; but I’m not sure a 6-drop sorcery that doesn’t give trample works...excited to see Devotion back though!

    Setessan Champion is a great enchantress too. 3-CMC is huge...And getting a +1/+1 counter on top of the card is also a big deal (as it makes her a natural threat in the deck and makes Nylea, God of the Hunt a true option. I would LOVE to build a deck with her, Nylea, Sprawl, Oath, Abundant Growth, etc....you could even do some wackiness with Hardened Scales (with Ballista and Vivien being natural fits). I really enjoy the card (even if it is a build-around).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ManDolphin »
    Quote from CurdBros »
    Quote from ManDolphin »
    Quote from StevomatUWR »
    This could be an interesting read for many here: http://magic.facetofacegames.com/delver-in-modern/


    Very cool read. Thanks for sharing!

    I saw this deck when it was posted and boy do I like this engine. The ability to constantly rebuy Deprive with Mystic Sanctuary seems extremely powerful in the late game. Fitting this into a three color deck would be tough though and I'm wondering if the Delver of Secrets are even needed. Maybe swap them out with another potent threat, but I can see the potential our little bug friend has with Mystic Sanctuary as the game goes on. I think I'll be running this engine in a variety of two color U tempo decks moving forward. Fantastic find @StevomatUWR!


    I saw AspiringSpike playing this deck awhile back and it forced me to look more seriously at Archmage's Charm. It took the place of my beloved Bedlam Reveler because a spell is always better than a creature in our deck. This is why my current build is set up more towards this style of deck. I still have a slightly more aggressive take, but I am up to 7-8 counters. I have really like Mystic Sanctuary in my deck. I has really been great. I have currently been playing remand. I have played deprive in the past, but have preferred remand in my style of deck.

    The deprive, sanctuary, charm engine is really strong. However, it does take awhile to get going. I have found that the UR version really depends on the sideboard and really depends on Young Pyromancer to win games. I feel like this style of delver deck is great in certain metas. It also takes a player with a lot of control experience. It tends to play more like a control deck in most games that unless they start delver on turn 1 and young pyromancer on turn 2. I don't have that type of experience and don't prefer the control roll in modern so I play a slightly different style.

    I love to see people finally coming around to Delver in modern! Hopefully we will see some evolution in the deck. I know that I personally can learn a lot from these pro players.


    Have you been able to make the Deprive/Mystic Sanctuary/Archmage's Charm (DMA) combination work in Jeskai, or have you been using it in the Izzet colors? If so I would love to see how you've configured your mana base to accompany the requirement on blue sources and specifically islands.

    Quote from CurdBros »


    I would love to see your tempo decks in the future. It's a really powerful engine. If you go even more control you could add a Cryptic Command also to add to the engine with mystic sanctuary.


    At the moment I'm rocking a Simic Flash list centered around DMA and a creature suite consisting of Ice-Fang Coatl, Brazen Borrower, and Nightpack Ambusher to name a few. It's been fun, but I've missed jamming Delver of Secrets alongside Snapcaster Mage so I may shift back to UR Delver or Jeskai/RUG Delver if I can some how shove the DMA combination into them. I've even been brewing up a UW and UG Delver list just for fun, but they'll come later. Wink


    I have more so used the "engine" for value. My deck isn't built around the engine, but it likely could be rather easily. Here is my list currently:



    To be able to fit Archmage's Charm into a jeskai deck I had to make sure that white was a splash color. I originally started by cutting the Lightning Helix from the maindeck. It really has to be a base UR deck with white being more of a splash color. Geist is a later game threat, helix is a secondary removal behind bolt and path, and path is also a later game removal spell for bigger things. Therefore you basically start as a UR deck and white is for things that blue/red can't offer (removal for large things, life gain, and geist) and for the great sideboard options.

    Originally I didn't have a Sacred Foundry in the list because I wanted nearly every mana source to be blue. However, I found after playing for a bit that I wasn't having a problem getting my blue mana and could support a foundry. I might go to 21 lands with an additional mystic sanctuary, however, I really don't want any come into play tapped lands early in the game so I just have one.

    I am currently questioning the mountain and the sacred foundry. I haven't had a ton of games (probably 40-50 or so) at this point so it will definitely take a bit more reps to make sure the mana is smooth. I have found it to be fine so far and I typically fetch a blue dual land first (whichever other color my hand doesn't have or needs) and then start fetching basic island if possible. I haven't had any problems with mana yet. I am going back and forth with putting Geist in the sideboard, but every time I think I should he dominates a match.

    I will keep you all posted on how it runs against the top decks. I will get to play this Thursday a bunch so I will take some notes and let you know if the mountain or sacred foundry get cut/changed.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ManDolphin »
    Quote from StevomatUWR »
    This could be an interesting read for many here: http://magic.facetofacegames.com/delver-in-modern/


    I saw this deck when it was posted and boy do I like this engine. The ability to constantly rebuy Deprive with Mystic Sanctuary seems extremely powerful in the late game. Fitting this into a three color deck would be tough though and I'm wondering if the Delver of Secrets are even needed. Maybe swap them out with another potent threat, but I can see the potential our little bug friend has with Mystic Sanctuary as the game goes on. I think I'll be running this engine in a variety of two color U tempo decks moving forward. Fantastic find @StevomatUWR!


    I would love to see your tempo decks in the future. It's a really powerful engine. If you go even more control you could add a Cryptic Command also to add to the engine with mystic sanctuary.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ManDolphin »
    Quote from StevomatUWR »
    This could be an interesting read for many here: http://magic.facetofacegames.com/delver-in-modern/


    Very cool read. Thanks for sharing!

    I saw this deck when it was posted and boy do I like this engine. The ability to constantly rebuy Deprive with Mystic Sanctuary seems extremely powerful in the late game. Fitting this into a three color deck would be tough though and I'm wondering if the Delver of Secrets are even needed. Maybe swap them out with another potent threat, but I can see the potential our little bug friend has with Mystic Sanctuary as the game goes on. I think I'll be running this engine in a variety of two color U tempo decks moving forward. Fantastic find @StevomatUWR!


    I saw AspiringSpike playing this deck awhile back and it forced me to look more seriously at Archmage's Charm. It took the place of my beloved Bedlam Reveler because a spell is always better than a creature in our deck. This is why my current build is set up more towards this style of deck. I still have a slightly more aggressive take, but I am up to 7-8 counters. I have really like Mystic Sanctuary in my deck. I has really been great. I have currently been playing remand. I have played deprive in the past, but have preferred remand in my style of deck.

    The deprive, sanctuary, charm engine is really strong. However, it does take awhile to get going. I have found that the UR version really depends on the sideboard and really depends on Young Pyromancer to win games. I feel like this style of delver deck is great in certain metas. It also takes a player with a lot of control experience. It tends to play more like a control deck in most games that unless they start delver on turn 1 and young pyromancer on turn 2. I don't have that type of experience and don't prefer the control roll in modern so I play a slightly different style.

    I love to see people finally coming around to Delver in modern! Hopefully we will see some evolution in the deck. I know that I personally can learn a lot from these pro players.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
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