I think this fits very well in an aggro/tempo style build. I am currently running Jeskai Delver in Modern so I will definitely be giving this one a try!
whats up everyone. I was just checking in to see what you all thought about the mana base for Jeskai at the moment. With the khans fetchs now available I find that it would be a decent idea to evaluate what would be the "perfect" choice as it stands.
My version of the Jeskai Aggro looks something like this
Basically you got pyro not as a star player but as a role player when he comes up, if he doesn't it shouldn't matter because the other cards can pull their weight. 8 fetches because we really want to get into business reall nice and deep like. Snags to clear the way, boros charms to either deal lethal or protect from wipes, lavaman to go in hit'em'up'style. Colonnade to do something with flooding if that ever happens.
One thing I've been pondering about was a midrange sideboard outside of the obvious hate cards we can pack. Maybe some Mirran Crusader for the inevitable BG matchup, Ajani Vengeant or Chandra could also be nice post board. Still up in the air which dragon would be cool Stormbreath seems nicely positioned right now. Redirect is great against BG and quite funny when using it to smack a Lilly in the face or rip something from their hand after they pay 2 life.
Dunno if I can warrant a cryptic MD yet, but i've heard its a good card.
Just some thoughts lemme know what you guys think.
This looks like a great list! My list is very similar, but I go a little higher on the curve with a one of Chandra, Pyromaster and a one of Batterskull instead of the two Young Pyromancers, but otherwise, our decks are almost identical.
I have never run Redirect but have tested swerve. How has redirect been for you? I do run a Mirran Crusader in my sideboard and it has been very good. In most matchups were Geist is just good (he can only be great or good, never bad)- Mirran Crusader is typically great. I also run a Slayer's Stonghold for the midrange matchups that get grindy, but that is a preference thing.
Sorry I don't have much to say in the way of constructive help, but the deck looks great to me. I would love to hear how some of your testing has gone.
Cedric just said that Jeskai Delver won the Modern IQ this week! I haven't seen the list yet, but that is the first win for WUR/Jeskai Delver in the states in awhile. Awesome!
Re: Mantis Rider - I have no idea why this would ever be considered for the deck.
Re: Lightning Angel - Restoration Angel is just a better card. You're not playing this version with Delver, Geist, etc, to care about something like Vigilance. Besides, it's insanely mid-range.
I was 5-0 yesterday @ some small tournament @ my LGS (running the same list I've posted earlier).
Matches were: UB Fae (2-1), Soul Sisters (2-0), Jund (2-1), Mono U Tron (2-0), UW Control (2-0).
In 3 of those match ups, Geist of Saint Traft was Progenitus for 3 mana. I -really- don't get the debate on "Do I run or not run" this card, unless you want to be different and play a bad version of the deck or don't have them. w/e.
I love the last quote. I often think Geist is the best card in the deck, so I don have a hard time wondering why anyone would question playing him in their deck. I don't think Mantis is a terrible card, but it probably doesn't fit in this deck. Unless you are Super Aggro. I also agree about Lightning Angel. I tried everything to get her into my build, but Resto angel was just better and she didn't make the final cut so Lightning Angel didn't either.
Where any of the matchups you played interesting/tougher than expected?
Valanarch- I am also interested in Mantis Rider as a one of. I hate that it dies to all removal in modern, but it is still great value for a three drop. I don't think it will make the cut bc aven mindcenser has been awesome, but every Jeskai.....WUR player loves lightning angel.
I also agree that not running many two drop permanents (Snapcaster Mage), our engineered explosives are really powerful. Young pyro does diminish the power of explosives.
What matchups do you hate seeing with your Jeskai....WUR Delver deck?
Many of the worst matchups this deck has include either a threat we can answer such as a hexprof threat or multiple threats and/or blocker. As such, boggles, merfolk, and BW tokens are tough matchups, especially in game one. The single best sideboard card that helps in all such matchups in my opinion is engineered explosives. Many of the tough cards our deck has to deal with are at a 2 casting cost or 0. I have also tried bonfire of the damned but it is to inconsistent.
Liliana and Lingering Souls are also are enemies, but I have found the BGx builds to be somewhat favorable with my sideboard. Hibernation has been great for me recently.
I haven't found Tron to be too tough if you go aggro and save your paths for wurmcoil engine. If you sideboard stony silence for affinity it does work against Tron. Also boros charm saves you from their board wipes.
I don't have much experience with amulet combo or infect bc they aren't played much here. If I had to pick my least favorite matchups to see I would say merfolk, boggles, BW tokens, 8 rack, and possibly valakut although I have had positive results against it. Lucky these are all fringe decks and can be hosed with our sideboard engineered explosives, runed halo, etc. If these decks become more prevalent if have thought of adding detention sphere to the deck, but it hasn't been necessary.
What bad matchups did I miss and does anybody disagree or have other matchups they hate to see?
Borofill- I am actually in the opposite boat. I am looking for a reason to play Young Pyromancer. I love the card and the flavor, but it just doesn't seem powerful enough when I play it. The results of the UR Delver deck speak for themselves so I can't argue that Young Pryomancer is a great card, but I have always preferred Geist of Saint Traft.
I think the main factor in deciding which you prefer is what type of tempo deck you prefer. If you fall more on the aggro side with less permission Geist will suite your needs much more often. If you fall more on the tempo/control end of the spectrum then Young Pyromancer will be a better choice as she gives a ton of additional value to your counter spells/permission.
My play style fits better on the aggro end of the spectrum and therefore I prefer a build with Geist of Saint Traft rather than Young Pryo. 0evil-overlord0 says it best when he/she said you can just play them both if you like both, but I think they are somewhat different in terms of the builds they work best in.
Another positive aspect about this deck is that you can make it your own and play whatever cards float your boat and fit your playstyle.
Thanks for finally posting. The more minds working on the deck, the better!
I will be posting my notes from several of my testing sessions today for input from all of the Jeskai Delver team members.
I agree with Ronyx on this one. Lightning Angel is a top five card on my favorites list and in modern I think it is slightly more playable. It is rare that one additional toughness is worth an entire mana in casting cost, but in this case, it is worth it. I still think Mantis Rider is playable in the correct deck. I have another Jeskai deck the is based around Savor the Moment and he is a definite 4 of in that deck. It also runs Brimaz, King of Oreskos and takes advantage of the extra turns with vigilance creatures. It is a fun deck to play, but that's another topic.
I just can't wait for Jeskai Ascendancy and Jeskai Charm!
Also Ronyx Bladewing, Thank you for calling it Jeskai Delver. I have grown fond of calling the deck Jeskai Delver and have caught a little flack for it :).
I think its important to reiterate the fact about reclamation sage. Toprot Orb is strong against a lot of devotion builds; and he is just dead to it. There's very little reason to use up space for what can't take care of all problem artifacts. Reclamation sage is a great card and has several other positive uses)..it just doesn't work against one of the cards we would want it for most.
I am just not sure about Mindswipe. It is definitely a counter/burn's player's wet dream, but it doesn't really fit in my build of this deck at least. I try to make sure the deck can run on 2-5 lands so this would never be very powerful. With that being said, I try to kill my opponent before they have a ton of lands. I don't ever say a card won't work unless I actually test it so this is just my best guess, but I think the earlier counters we have access to such as remand, mana leak, spell pierce, etc are faster and cryptic command and counterflux are stronger so this falls in the "not fast enough, not powerful enough" category for me.
Mindswipe might work in a RUG Ramp counter/burn list or even a WUR midrange list. Anyone run a WUR Delver deck that falls more on the control end that can benefit from Mindswipe?
Glad people are coming around about Bonfire of the Damned. Yes, it is that good! It seals and steals wins.
I can say in my list Ghost Quarter has been nice in the matchups its meant for - Jund or Control or any deck that tries to push through man lands as an alternate win condition - where I end up cutting a few dorks to help make my mana more consistent and I can be more sure I hit land drops as my dorks are likely to die grizzly deaths. Works fantastic against Tron as well. Tec Edge can be played around, and I don't feel bad swapping out a Nykthos for a Ghost Quarter against Affinity, either, to shut down the Inkmoth Nexus plan. Tec Edge may be better against Scapeshift, but if you're running the Primal Command variant, I don't feel that's a matchup that's too worrisome anyway.
I've been feeling similar about cutting Reclamation Sage, as it needs to hit an effect that's already in play... so it's solid against Affinity and Pod. I suppose running one or the other (Pridemate) depends on what you can expect to see more of: Pod, Affinity, or Twin, in Pridemate's case.
@Purklefluff: I too have had a growing confidence in the deck's power level and its ability to shift roles depending on matchup. This type of fluid gameplan is addictive to pilot and I've had opponents playing aggro say "I thought I was playing against a Green deck" post sideboard with all the interaction you can bring in and control them out of the game.
There's been a lot of good discussion here, Pedros, Curdbros, Purklefluff and newer members to the thread.
I did want to address one interesting addition in that deck that hit the top 8 at that PTQ a bit back:
I run Boil in my sideboard, so I know how effective land disruption can be against the blue decks in the format. However, some decks are just greedy on mana period. Heck, even we're vulnerable to a timely tec edge off the top of the deck, or a Cryptic bouncing a Aura-ed up Forest.
IF space allows, why not try out Stone Rain in the side as a 2-of? Relevant against basically anything that doesn't have a super low curve. Can Eternal Witness it and replay it rather easily, too, to get you even further ahead. Primal Command bouncing a land is so effective against so many decks on turn 3. What if we started attacking their mana base turn 2 as an alternate plan against the grindier decks in the format? I'm not sure if space allows, and I like my sideboard to be cross-applicable. There's so little mana disruption in Modern, though, that I feel like this is a weakness SOME deck should be trying to exploit. I know some Red Deck Wins run Molten Rain to great effect. Maybe I'm overvaluing the upside of running it.
That card's next on my sideboard test list. Thought I'd throw my thinking out there and see what you all think.
Edit: Magus of the Moon is probably much better disruption and maindeckable, and I trust Purklefluff's testing. I still would like to know honest takes on a further Land Denial strategy post-board using Stone Rain.
I actually like your idea quite a bit. ESPECIALLY your discussion of potentially using Eternal Witness to put a real hurt on their base. Having a sideboard that can move into a mana-denial line is a huge advantage (as the opponent will rarely see it coming). I say give it a try! It sounds like it has a ton of potential as a really strong sideboard strategy against many of decks in the meta.
Magus is a really good card. I played it very early on. It works a little differently in my version (what I call the "Genesis Advantage" versions) as the decks you generally want to play it against we already have a good match-up too; and the decks I would want to side it against all run Bolt and additional Removal. In the Silver Bullet version; however, its amazing ( especially since you can play it main board). A 3-CMC tutor able basically-win-com is always nice.
But there's no saying you can't play a magus main board and two Stone Raims sided. Stone rain is effective against a very wide range of decks. Nearly every idea you've had in the past paid off after testing...so I for one vote to give it a try for sure
On my phone; so I can't go too far in depth; but I LOVE (absolutely love ) the changes made to your deck Purkle!
Every single change is a huge upgrade for your deck...I'll write more when I get back; but bravo. Looks great. I've been playing Bonfire in my board; and it is quickly moving up the list of my favorite devotion cards as well...but to be honest; I think it functions am even better purpose in your version than it does in mine (given the slightly different match-ups we have against Aggro decks). Superb addition.
Any who. Wanted to get two cents in quick; but I really like where the deck is at now. I call your version the "Silver Bullet " version of Green Devotion; and this is quite possibly the best Silver Bullet list yet! Love how the deck has evolved. There's been great discussion on here (as a few others also play a Silver Bullet list) and you guys have taken the deck to the "next level" As far as a "toolbox" deck goes; I'd rather play this than Pod! Looks great!
This looks like a great list! My list is very similar, but I go a little higher on the curve with a one of Chandra, Pyromaster and a one of Batterskull instead of the two Young Pyromancers, but otherwise, our decks are almost identical.
I have never run Redirect but have tested swerve. How has redirect been for you? I do run a Mirran Crusader in my sideboard and it has been very good. In most matchups were Geist is just good (he can only be great or good, never bad)- Mirran Crusader is typically great. I also run a Slayer's Stonghold for the midrange matchups that get grindy, but that is a preference thing.
Sorry I don't have much to say in the way of constructive help, but the deck looks great to me. I would love to hear how some of your testing has gone.
I love the last quote. I often think Geist is the best card in the deck, so I don have a hard time wondering why anyone would question playing him in their deck. I don't think Mantis is a terrible card, but it probably doesn't fit in this deck. Unless you are Super Aggro. I also agree about Lightning Angel. I tried everything to get her into my build, but Resto angel was just better and she didn't make the final cut so Lightning Angel didn't either.
Where any of the matchups you played interesting/tougher than expected?
I also agree that not running many two drop permanents (Snapcaster Mage), our engineered explosives are really powerful. Young pyro does diminish the power of explosives.
What matchups do you hate seeing with your Jeskai....WUR Delver deck?
Many of the worst matchups this deck has include either a threat we can answer such as a hexprof threat or multiple threats and/or blocker. As such, boggles, merfolk, and BW tokens are tough matchups, especially in game one. The single best sideboard card that helps in all such matchups in my opinion is engineered explosives. Many of the tough cards our deck has to deal with are at a 2 casting cost or 0. I have also tried bonfire of the damned but it is to inconsistent.
Liliana and Lingering Souls are also are enemies, but I have found the BGx builds to be somewhat favorable with my sideboard. Hibernation has been great for me recently.
I haven't found Tron to be too tough if you go aggro and save your paths for wurmcoil engine. If you sideboard stony silence for affinity it does work against Tron. Also boros charm saves you from their board wipes.
I don't have much experience with amulet combo or infect bc they aren't played much here. If I had to pick my least favorite matchups to see I would say merfolk, boggles, BW tokens, 8 rack, and possibly valakut although I have had positive results against it. Lucky these are all fringe decks and can be hosed with our sideboard engineered explosives, runed halo, etc. If these decks become more prevalent if have thought of adding detention sphere to the deck, but it hasn't been necessary.
What bad matchups did I miss and does anybody disagree or have other matchups they hate to see?
I think the main factor in deciding which you prefer is what type of tempo deck you prefer. If you fall more on the aggro side with less permission Geist will suite your needs much more often. If you fall more on the tempo/control end of the spectrum then Young Pyromancer will be a better choice as she gives a ton of additional value to your counter spells/permission.
My play style fits better on the aggro end of the spectrum and therefore I prefer a build with Geist of Saint Traft rather than Young Pryo. 0evil-overlord0 says it best when he/she said you can just play them both if you like both, but I think they are somewhat different in terms of the builds they work best in.
Another positive aspect about this deck is that you can make it your own and play whatever cards float your boat and fit your playstyle.
Thanks for finally posting. The more minds working on the deck, the better!
I will be posting my notes from several of my testing sessions today for input from all of the Jeskai Delver team members.
I just can't wait for Jeskai Ascendancy and Jeskai Charm!
Also Ronyx Bladewing, Thank you for calling it Jeskai Delver. I have grown fond of calling the deck Jeskai Delver and have caught a little flack for it :).
Mindswipe might work in a RUG Ramp counter/burn list or even a WUR midrange list. Anyone run a WUR Delver deck that falls more on the control end that can benefit from Mindswipe?
I actually like your idea quite a bit. ESPECIALLY your discussion of potentially using Eternal Witness to put a real hurt on their base. Having a sideboard that can move into a mana-denial line is a huge advantage (as the opponent will rarely see it coming). I say give it a try! It sounds like it has a ton of potential as a really strong sideboard strategy against many of decks in the meta.
Magus is a really good card. I played it very early on. It works a little differently in my version (what I call the "Genesis Advantage" versions) as the decks you generally want to play it against we already have a good match-up too; and the decks I would want to side it against all run Bolt and additional Removal. In the Silver Bullet version; however, its amazing ( especially since you can play it main board). A 3-CMC tutor able basically-win-com is always nice.
But there's no saying you can't play a magus main board and two Stone Raims sided. Stone rain is effective against a very wide range of decks. Nearly every idea you've had in the past paid off after testing...so I for one vote to give it a try for sure
Every single change is a huge upgrade for your deck...I'll write more when I get back; but bravo. Looks great. I've been playing Bonfire in my board; and it is quickly moving up the list of my favorite devotion cards as well...but to be honest; I think it functions am even better purpose in your version than it does in mine (given the slightly different match-ups we have against Aggro decks). Superb addition.
Any who. Wanted to get two cents in quick; but I really like where the deck is at now. I call your version the "Silver Bullet " version of Green Devotion; and this is quite possibly the best Silver Bullet list yet! Love how the deck has evolved. There's been great discussion on here (as a few others also play a Silver Bullet list) and you guys have taken the deck to the "next level" As far as a "toolbox" deck goes; I'd rather play this than Pod! Looks great!