I've never run Thraben Inspector. What do folks like about it so much? Happy to be sold on it...
In most cases it's a little like Wall of Omens. It's a decent 1-drop against aggro decks because it gums up the ground, threatens to trade against X/1's or can chump some damage and it does all of that while regaining its card. Compared to Wall It costs you 3 mana instead of 2 mana to get the card, but being able to play the creature on 1 and then keep up a 2-mana counterspell is very nice in control decks, so the mana isn't strictly worse. Similar to Wall of Omens, Inspector is a decent flicker target, though a bit more expensive since you will need to pay 2 extra mana for the clue.
However, unlike Wall of Omens, Thraben can actually swing in. This is sort of like a Sakura-Tribe Elder or similar, where the 1-power might look very unassuming at first glance, but suddenly it is wielding an equipment, or it grabs monarch or initiative or you have some anthems out or something like Court of Garenbrig. Not having Defender is a big upside. My favorite example was when a Thraben Inspector was used to ninjitsu in a Fallen Shinobi (Wall of Omens definitely can't do that!).
So in my cube, Inspector has gone in and out several times. It has never felt very good, but it is quite popular and sees a lot of maindeck play. I haven't cubed Wall of Omens for many years, and doubt it will make a return. I might end up cutting Thraben soon, but I do like 1-drops that aren't simply aggro creatures as well, so it feels nice from a cube design perspective.
A few months ago I was looking for one more red discard outlet to support my red welder package. So I was looking through all the red discard outlets and wasn't too happy with any of them to be honest. Bitter Reunion is decent, but I have to say I dislike the sorcery speed of it. And while Charming Scoundrel seems like a sweet new discard outlet, my play group doesn't want me to add it due to the roles being annoying to deal with as a 1-of.
While this doesn't seem super powerful to me, it would fit very well in the welder deck I think. Not only is it a nice discard outlet for the deck, but it also gives an instant speed sac outlet, which can be very nice against exile effects. Responding with this to a Plow or Solitude on your Triplicate Titan would feel very nice. Also gives a very natural sac outlet to both The One Ring and Mana Crypt.
I ended up pulling out the whole welder package, so won't be playing this at 360. But if I go back to the Welder package I would perhaps consider it. Again, not a super powerful card, but I honestly love how clean and modal the whole design is.
I have to admit I am a lot less enthusiastic about the new Wrenn than most people I've seen talk about it so far are. I think it looks like a decent card, and a nice option if you are struggling to find green 3-drops you like. However, I don't think it is anywhere near replacing any of my green 3-drops in my current 360 cube.
I think it is easy to overestimate the card, because all of the abilities seem quite strong at first glance - but have some details that make them less interesting:
The static mana fixing ability doesn't seem super relevant to me, because Wrenn already costs double green. If it had been 2G, it would be much nicer in a 3-5C deck, but at 1GG it needs to be in a fairly green-based deck, which rarely struggle with splashing much to begin with in my experience.
The +1 would be strong if it untapped the land, but it doesn't. If you play Wrenn as a 3-drop, the +1 basically does nothing for you except up the loyalty - which is really not where you want to be unless your opponent is durdling. So to get value out of the +1 you need to cast this as a 4-drop. In addition, while a 3/3 can be nice to either defend Wrenn or slowly whittle at your opponent or their planeswalkers, Wrenn will never give you more than a single 3/3 at time. Unlike for example Nissa, Who Wins Games, which produces a new 3/3 every turn (or makes a single creature bigger). And while the Hexproof is very nice, it is not enough to weigh up for the fact that using lands to defend being risky. Playing Wrenn as a 4-drop and using the land as a defender sucks if your opponent swings in with a 3-power creature.
The -2 is card advantage, so that is nice. But the fact that you can only pick from the three milled cards is awkward. While whiffing on this effect seems very unlikely. I think it will often be a bit lackluster. If you could pick anything from the yard, I would be much more positive to Wrenn as it would be a great late topdeck.
I think the ultimate is what makes thing card slightly interesting, as it is a very strong effect. Starting at 4 loyalty and ulting at 7 also makes Wrenn a "must-answer" threat if you start plussing every turn. However, I don't think a strong ultimate after 4 turns is the same kind of threat it used to be way back, and the much faster pace of cubes today will have no struggle simply answering or out-pacing Wrenn.
I will admit I might be very wrong here, and time will tell.
Background: I am looking over the big mana rocks in my colorless section in a 360 Unpowered Cube. I know for sure I am including Grim Monolith and Coalition Relic, but am struggling with choosing the other two from the following list:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant (I see some people talk about Elspeth as a has-been, but I still really like Elspeth, the jump ability is so solid at grabbing monarch/initative or take out opposing PWs)
Tier 2
Gideon Jura (Very solid in control, but perhaps a bit narrow from a cube design perspective)
Elspeth, Sun's Champion (I still find Elspeth a solid card in control as a sweeper/finisher hybrid)
Tier 3
Gideon Blackblade (Cool middle ground between creature and PW that fits well in aggro, but I don't think it is great)
The Eternal Wanderer (Hard to evaluate as it is newly spoiled, but I think this looks like it doesn't do enough at 6 mana)
I run Gideon, Wandering Emperor and Elspeth Sun's Champion at 360. I do miss Knight-Errant, but it's hard to find room for 4-mana non-creature spells. I might swap out Emperor for Knight-Errant with some more playtesting.
The wording of this definitely says "one or more other creatures", so it won't trigger on itself.
Ah *****, completely missed that word in there. Well, this is embarrassing. Anyways, makes the card completely uninteresting in that case. Such a shame, as the floor of a bear that shocks the opponent on death would at least be playable in black aggro.
I can't believe I missed it doesn't count itself >_>. With that condition, the card's not great :/
If the translation is correct and it doesn't specify "whenever another creature you control dies", I am quite certain it does in fact count itself. I think Blood Artist/Zulaport both name themselves to avoid confusion. I think they skipped it on this one because the "one or more" wording is made to avoid confusion on how many triggers you get following a sweeper and the like.
I think the card looks like an interesting design. Probably not strong enough, but can be interesting for cubes that want a Blood Artist effect, but feel they are too narrow - as this is more playable in aggro decks and the like. I wish they had made it 3/2 to make it a bit more pushed in aggro. I also see a lot of cubes with a fairly pushed aristocrats, where another blood artist effect is interesting simply for redundancy.
This is another leak and seems really strong 4cc in aggro or midrange decks. Also, the indestructive ability to discard 2 cards is really interesting in those decks. Thoughts?
I'm not sure I agree this seems really strong. While the static ability is of course strong, and quite tempting, I think it looks quite awkward to use it in practice. If already costs 4 mana, so if you want to get immediate value out of the static ability you will need to have 5-6 mana. You also need a second card to draw advantage from the static, so in a top deck situation, it can very often simply be a vanilla 5/4 for 4.
This doesn't look playable in aggro to me, as they usually want to have a curve-topper in the 4-slot. Even in the dream situation where your deck has Fireblast, I think something like Hazoret, Hellrider, Oxid Ridge or Embercleave are better.
I think the indestructibility ability is a bit hard to evaluate, and there is a whole cycle of these guys - so it will be interesting to see how much value those add. But at the moment I am leaning towards the ability being to slow and costly to add enough value to make this particularly nice, even in midrange. Even if you manage to get the indestructible counter on, which means you have invested 7 mana and discarded 2 cards, there are plenty of answers. I also think the activated ability is way to costly to be interesting as a discard outlet.
I have played Triumph for a few years, and quite like the card - it might not be the best removal, but I like having an edict effect and the once in a while 2-for-1 is solid. However, I never really considered Sudden Edict and was suddenly thinking it might be an improvement? For reference I play a unpowered 360 cube with 3 Liliana's (Veil, Last Hope and Death's Majesty), so the 2-for-1 isn't too hard to pull off.
Please correct me if I am wrong on this one. Reading the exile clause, it isn't worded like a replacement effect (like for instance Flashback or Unearth). Instead it is a trigger. This has two important consequences: (1) The card does actually go to the yard and you get dies triggers. Though I guess most dies triggers in cube are on stuff bigger than cmc 3, so it might be slightly moot. (2) If you cast things like Kitchen Finks with Serra Paragon, the persist and added triggers both go on the stack at the same time, and you choose the order. Meaning Serra Paragon works really well with Persist creatures.
Again, I am not 100% sure on the ruling here - but this is the way I interpret it.
One aspect of Barrin, Tolarian Archmage that I really liked is that he is legendary, so he has great synergy with Karakas, but that is definitely not enough of an upside to outweigh Aether Channeler.
I was literally just thinking about my disappointment over the 3CC blue creature slot options and this comes along. Not only does this upgrade the usual unsummon etb for disperse, but it also has alternate modes which either provide an evasive body or a card. Blue really does get everything only better.
Interesting. I consider blue 3CC to be quite stacked. At 360 I would definitely put Vendilion Clique, Brazen Borrower and True-Name Nemesis above this, and if you support wheels then Hullbreacher is insane. Personally I also support Twin, so that takes another 2 spots. If I didn't play Twin, I would probably play this as the fifth blue 3-drop.
My vote goes for Mox Diamond. But I will admit that I play Mox Diamond in my own cube, but not Gaea's Cradle. I think the card will see a lot more play, and see play in a lot of different situations/decks, compared to Cradle. I personally really like Mox Diamond - it's a super clean design and has fun interactions with the more loam-based strategies (Wrenn and Six and such).
1 - Ulvenwald Oddity vs Undermountain Adventure vs Timeless Witness ? What order ?
2 - Attrition vs Altar to Bhaal vs Whip of Erebos ? What order?
3 - Portent vs Careful Study ?
1. Very hard to compare, the three cards do completely different things. I think I personally would rank Ulvenwald Oddity on top, as hasty beaters have increased in value to clear out walkers, at least in my own meta. The other two cards are slower, more grindy cards. I personally don't like the design of Adventurer and probably would like to stay clear of adding "Taking the initiative" unless something very strong comes a long. I do really like the design of Timeless Witness, the eternalize feels great with looting and cards like Survival of the Fittest, or simply in super-ramp decks. So I would say
2. Again, fairly hard to compare. I think the new Altar of Bhaal seems better than Whip, but as mentioned - whip gets better if you need the lifelink. Attrition can be a fun deck if you lean towards the recursion style decks, but I personally don't think it is worth a cube slot - I would probably rank it over whip though.
3. Very different cards. Portent is a decent cantrip, ranking right under Opt/Consider in my book. Careful Study is card disadvantage, and in most cubes only reanimator would be interested. Not having the flashback of Faithless Looting really hurts its playability. In a vacuum I would therefore say
In most cases it's a little like Wall of Omens. It's a decent 1-drop against aggro decks because it gums up the ground, threatens to trade against X/1's or can chump some damage and it does all of that while regaining its card. Compared to Wall It costs you 3 mana instead of 2 mana to get the card, but being able to play the creature on 1 and then keep up a 2-mana counterspell is very nice in control decks, so the mana isn't strictly worse. Similar to Wall of Omens, Inspector is a decent flicker target, though a bit more expensive since you will need to pay 2 extra mana for the clue.
However, unlike Wall of Omens, Thraben can actually swing in. This is sort of like a Sakura-Tribe Elder or similar, where the 1-power might look very unassuming at first glance, but suddenly it is wielding an equipment, or it grabs monarch or initiative or you have some anthems out or something like Court of Garenbrig. Not having Defender is a big upside. My favorite example was when a Thraben Inspector was used to ninjitsu in a Fallen Shinobi (Wall of Omens definitely can't do that!).
So in my cube, Inspector has gone in and out several times. It has never felt very good, but it is quite popular and sees a lot of maindeck play. I haven't cubed Wall of Omens for many years, and doubt it will make a return. I might end up cutting Thraben soon, but I do like 1-drops that aren't simply aggro creatures as well, so it feels nice from a cube design perspective.
While this doesn't seem super powerful to me, it would fit very well in the welder deck I think. Not only is it a nice discard outlet for the deck, but it also gives an instant speed sac outlet, which can be very nice against exile effects. Responding with this to a Plow or Solitude on your Triplicate Titan would feel very nice. Also gives a very natural sac outlet to both The One Ring and Mana Crypt.
I ended up pulling out the whole welder package, so won't be playing this at 360. But if I go back to the Welder package I would perhaps consider it. Again, not a super powerful card, but I honestly love how clean and modal the whole design is.
I think it is easy to overestimate the card, because all of the abilities seem quite strong at first glance - but have some details that make them less interesting:
I will admit I might be very wrong here, and time will tell.
Pick Two:
Will test:
Tier 1
Tier 2
Tier 3
I run Gideon, Wandering Emperor and Elspeth Sun's Champion at 360. I do miss Knight-Errant, but it's hard to find room for 4-mana non-creature spells. I might swap out Emperor for Knight-Errant with some more playtesting.
Ah *****, completely missed that word in there. Well, this is embarrassing. Anyways, makes the card completely uninteresting in that case. Such a shame, as the floor of a bear that shocks the opponent on death would at least be playable in black aggro.
If the translation is correct and it doesn't specify "whenever another creature you control dies", I am quite certain it does in fact count itself. I think Blood Artist/Zulaport both name themselves to avoid confusion. I think they skipped it on this one because the "one or more" wording is made to avoid confusion on how many triggers you get following a sweeper and the like.
I think the card looks like an interesting design. Probably not strong enough, but can be interesting for cubes that want a Blood Artist effect, but feel they are too narrow - as this is more playable in aggro decks and the like. I wish they had made it 3/2 to make it a bit more pushed in aggro. I also see a lot of cubes with a fairly pushed aristocrats, where another blood artist effect is interesting simply for redundancy.
I'm not sure I agree this seems really strong. While the static ability is of course strong, and quite tempting, I think it looks quite awkward to use it in practice. If already costs 4 mana, so if you want to get immediate value out of the static ability you will need to have 5-6 mana. You also need a second card to draw advantage from the static, so in a top deck situation, it can very often simply be a vanilla 5/4 for 4.
This doesn't look playable in aggro to me, as they usually want to have a curve-topper in the 4-slot. Even in the dream situation where your deck has Fireblast, I think something like Hazoret, Hellrider, Oxid Ridge or Embercleave are better.
I think the indestructibility ability is a bit hard to evaluate, and there is a whole cycle of these guys - so it will be interesting to see how much value those add. But at the moment I am leaning towards the ability being to slow and costly to add enough value to make this particularly nice, even in midrange. Even if you manage to get the indestructible counter on, which means you have invested 7 mana and discarded 2 cards, there are plenty of answers. I also think the activated ability is way to costly to be interesting as a discard outlet.
Thanks for the input. My question just turned moot anyway with today's spoiler of Sheoldred's Edict, which seems better than both to me.
I have played Triumph for a few years, and quite like the card - it might not be the best removal, but I like having an edict effect and the once in a while 2-for-1 is solid. However, I never really considered Sudden Edict and was suddenly thinking it might be an improvement? For reference I play a unpowered 360 cube with 3 Liliana's (Veil, Last Hope and Death's Majesty), so the 2-for-1 isn't too hard to pull off.
Again, I am not 100% sure on the ruling here - but this is the way I interpret it.
One aspect of Barrin, Tolarian Archmage that I really liked is that he is legendary, so he has great synergy with Karakas, but that is definitely not enough of an upside to outweigh Aether Channeler.
Interesting. I consider blue 3CC to be quite stacked. At 360 I would definitely put Vendilion Clique, Brazen Borrower and True-Name Nemesis above this, and if you support wheels then Hullbreacher is insane. Personally I also support Twin, so that takes another 2 spots. If I didn't play Twin, I would probably play this as the fifth blue 3-drop.
My vote goes for Mox Diamond. But I will admit that I play Mox Diamond in my own cube, but not Gaea's Cradle. I think the card will see a lot more play, and see play in a lot of different situations/decks, compared to Cradle. I personally really like Mox Diamond - it's a super clean design and has fun interactions with the more loam-based strategies (Wrenn and Six and such).
1. Very hard to compare, the three cards do completely different things. I think I personally would rank Ulvenwald Oddity on top, as hasty beaters have increased in value to clear out walkers, at least in my own meta. The other two cards are slower, more grindy cards. I personally don't like the design of Adventurer and probably would like to stay clear of adding "Taking the initiative" unless something very strong comes a long. I do really like the design of Timeless Witness, the eternalize feels great with looting and cards like Survival of the Fittest, or simply in super-ramp decks. So I would say
Ulvenwald Oddity > Timeless Witness > Undermountain Adventurer
2. Again, fairly hard to compare. I think the new Altar of Bhaal seems better than Whip, but as mentioned - whip gets better if you need the lifelink. Attrition can be a fun deck if you lean towards the recursion style decks, but I personally don't think it is worth a cube slot - I would probably rank it over whip though.
Altar of Bhaal > Attrition > Whip of Erebos
3. Very different cards. Portent is a decent cantrip, ranking right under Opt/Consider in my book. Careful Study is card disadvantage, and in most cubes only reanimator would be interested. Not having the flashback of Faithless Looting really hurts its playability. In a vacuum I would therefore say
Portent >> Careful Study
But Careful Study can provide a special effect if you play stuff like Dredge.