Beyond that...its being seriously discussed for urzatron legacy.
Real breakdown: 8 cost always has an auto cringe effect. So often its questioned, could it really be worth the length of time to drop? Often that answer is no. It won't auto swing the late game enough in your favor. Why buy a ten dollar scratcher to have it come up ziltch? Doesn't feel good. But what if it hits for 50, 100, or more? A wise investment.
Ugin "hits" by all accounts. It take the lategame and throws everything in your favor.
By my thinking, only 2 real cards seen in standard will stop u from gaining obscene advantage: downfall and hasted stormbreath dragon beats after wipe. But both of those options still give u a priority sweep on everything, so u still finish ahead
Against aggro, he would be wasted space in the deck
I stopped reading after that statement. Um...2 outta 3 effects. 8 will always be a turn off for some. Always. But it is NOT completely unheard of for control finishes. I've never seen a walker more exceptional at protecting itself. It has a durable high starting loyalty, like karn, but has ashioks growth rate. Translation: u will have a nightmare of a time chipping it down. As a matter of fact, u never will. U will NEVER have the creature presence to swing it down.
U mentioned downfall? The real issue is u had better have one ready to fire or ugin will overtake u. So much value. The wipe is clean and precise. Without it, u can get to ult in 2 turns, crack it, and the ugin will still live
Kiora's follower is fun but the u cost makes it harder since ud only want to needneed to play most anything with your nykthos/acolyte mana. Let's u combo off any win w/ tapped out lands. Already worked out the 4 turn christmasland kill:
T1: mana confluence, elvish mystic
T2: untapped r or u land or dual, courser
T3: ascendancy, land drop
T4: nykthos drop, activate float 4, acolyte, float 6, voyaging satyr, satyr untaps nykthos, activate with two floating for...9? Sabretooth is gg.
Liking the combo deck though. Its 3 cards but one is an enchantment. And sabretooth actually provides pla-style protection for himself and the acolyte. Kiora's follower makes the math more dumb. I'm thinking, though, 4 scout the borders and 4 dig through time. Lots of scry. Maybe a courser-eidolon thing but I feel u just need to be faster
Or if its easier: tempo plays to sire of insanity seem good too.
Edit: I just think either of those enablers do much more for you then what ur forced to run: a card that makes ur opponent mulligan once...and makes u do it twice.
Don't u guys wish rakdos return was legal. That plus the essentials, plus that phrexian arena that goes on a land...u could set up a nykthos devotion pitch-ur-whole-hand-t5 thing. What about for modern?
About tasigur: I guess it can bring the mana sink +1s for a slow game, in colors that might be lacking. If ur in blue it isn't needed. I wish you could delve the effect cost, it'd be easier to keep the yard empty except for counter magic
Yeah. Wow way off. Thanks for clarifying. I've been trying to come up with a way to win instantly off of only 6 devo and I think I've got it. As said earlier 6 devo draws ur whole deck but no extra mana. So here's what ud do:
1. After the cantrip loop ur whole deck is in your hand. But u can still float 6 g at the end - even with all lands tapped. So step 1 is float the 6.
2. Spend 2 to drop caryatid (remember whole deck is in ur hand.
3. Spend 1 more floating g (3 left) and tap caryatid for blue to drop kiora's follower (proly a 1 of in the deck just for this).
4. Special note: ur opting to skip cantrips obviously so u don't die. Tap kiora's follower to untap acolyte.
5. Tap acolyte for (now) 8 g. Infinite mana is a go.
6. Float 97 bajillion g. Sabretooth bounce caryatid, replay and float blue. Bounce, replay, float black, wealth. Gg
Ugin is damn near edh stapled. I luv it so much it actually gets my vote for overall best. Yes it costs 8, but I can't find ANY walker out there who protects himself better or swings the game so steeply in your favor the same turn it drops.
It has everything a control deck could want in a finisher, 8 cmc is not too much for those slower decks to handle, and unless the opponent has downfall ready they are gonna have a nightmare dealing with it.
Think about it: how annoying is it to attack down and kill an ashiok? This has the same growth rate with a much bigger start in loyalty...u can crack the ult 2 turns after it drops AND it'll still live. Should I go on?
Built my own list. Wealth is good. Really good. Its less good against control mirror due to higher land counts and flopping dead counter/kill spells, but still good.
My deck, fills up the grave, not through cute crap like sidisi, but much like a modern deck: lots of fetches, and LOTS of instant/sorcs that do there job and go to the grave. Testing once I kept resetting their board every turn, treasure cruised for full delve twice, and went runner runner on triple wealth for the win.
Not in the slightest bit competitive but this combo seems fun for kitchen table johnnies. Infinite g mana and can trips: Ascendancy, sabretooth, disciple of nylea w/ at least 6 devo to draw ur whole deck, 7 or more for infinite g on top of that.
Basically those 3 cards is already 5 devo anything else and ur good.
Say...its 7. Float the 7 off of disciple, spend 2 on sabretooth to bounce the disciple, 4 to recast,cantrip. Ur back to square 1 w/ 1 mana floating and 1 extra card. Each time u repeat it goes up again. After u pick up ur whole deck how do u win? Drop ur caryatids for colored mana (gotta luv haste) and villainous wealth them for their whole deck.
Its funny. Ur field consists of their entire deck and your entire deck..u could win with a hasted attack or just be cute and end the turn so they deck
Not that I think the card is good, which it really isn't for constructed in any form but it could be a fun target for that ghost blinker guy in conspiracy. That's sorta reaching though as formats like that have access to thragtusk at the same cmc.
I do think its a fine draft pick, maybe 3rd or lower.
Hiloser got it right. Planar chaos was in the block after rav (time spiral). That's why I thought of it. Maybe we could have 10 2 color dragons this time.
Real breakdown: 8 cost always has an auto cringe effect. So often its questioned, could it really be worth the length of time to drop? Often that answer is no. It won't auto swing the late game enough in your favor. Why buy a ten dollar scratcher to have it come up ziltch? Doesn't feel good. But what if it hits for 50, 100, or more? A wise investment.
Ugin "hits" by all accounts. It take the lategame and throws everything in your favor.
By my thinking, only 2 real cards seen in standard will stop u from gaining obscene advantage: downfall and hasted stormbreath dragon beats after wipe. But both of those options still give u a priority sweep on everything, so u still finish ahead
I stopped reading after that statement. Um...2 outta 3 effects. 8 will always be a turn off for some. Always. But it is NOT completely unheard of for control finishes. I've never seen a walker more exceptional at protecting itself. It has a durable high starting loyalty, like karn, but has ashioks growth rate. Translation: u will have a nightmare of a time chipping it down. As a matter of fact, u never will. U will NEVER have the creature presence to swing it down.
U mentioned downfall? The real issue is u had better have one ready to fire or ugin will overtake u. So much value. The wipe is clean and precise. Without it, u can get to ult in 2 turns, crack it, and the ugin will still live
T1: mana confluence, elvish mystic
T2: untapped r or u land or dual, courser
T3: ascendancy, land drop
T4: nykthos drop, activate float 4, acolyte, float 6, voyaging satyr, satyr untaps nykthos, activate with two floating for...9? Sabretooth is gg.
Edit: I just think either of those enablers do much more for you then what ur forced to run: a card that makes ur opponent mulligan once...and makes u do it twice.
1. After the cantrip loop ur whole deck is in your hand. But u can still float 6 g at the end - even with all lands tapped. So step 1 is float the 6.
2. Spend 2 to drop caryatid (remember whole deck is in ur hand.
3. Spend 1 more floating g (3 left) and tap caryatid for blue to drop kiora's follower (proly a 1 of in the deck just for this).
4. Special note: ur opting to skip cantrips obviously so u don't die. Tap kiora's follower to untap acolyte.
5. Tap acolyte for (now) 8 g. Infinite mana is a go.
6. Float 97 bajillion g. Sabretooth bounce caryatid, replay and float blue. Bounce, replay, float black, wealth. Gg
It has everything a control deck could want in a finisher, 8 cmc is not too much for those slower decks to handle, and unless the opponent has downfall ready they are gonna have a nightmare dealing with it.
Think about it: how annoying is it to attack down and kill an ashiok? This has the same growth rate with a much bigger start in loyalty...u can crack the ult 2 turns after it drops AND it'll still live. Should I go on?
My deck, fills up the grave, not through cute crap like sidisi, but much like a modern deck: lots of fetches, and LOTS of instant/sorcs that do there job and go to the grave. Testing once I kept resetting their board every turn, treasure cruised for full delve twice, and went runner runner on triple wealth for the win.
Basically those 3 cards is already 5 devo anything else and ur good.
Say...its 7. Float the 7 off of disciple, spend 2 on sabretooth to bounce the disciple, 4 to recast,cantrip. Ur back to square 1 w/ 1 mana floating and 1 extra card. Each time u repeat it goes up again. After u pick up ur whole deck how do u win? Drop ur caryatids for colored mana (gotta luv haste) and villainous wealth them for their whole deck.
Its funny. Ur field consists of their entire deck and your entire deck..u could win with a hasted attack or just be cute and end the turn so they deck
I do think its a fine draft pick, maybe 3rd or lower.