You follow the instructions on the card in order, so the first thing that is done is destroy a creature. This immediately puts it into the graveyard, so if Body Double is revealed, it will see the creature in the graveyard and will be able to come into play as a copy of that creature.
I have a quick question about Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and an overload spell such as Cyclonic Rift Would Arbiter's ability make C.rift's overload cost cost less so instead of 7, it would be 6 mana?
That is correct. Here is the relevant rule:
117.9d If an alternative cost is being paid to cast a spell, any additional costs, cost increases, and
cost reductions that affect that spell are applied to that alternative cost. (See rule 601.2e.)
Eternal Witness seems like a really good tech for the deck. I'm going to try it out as a one-off.
Just to be sure, there are no green creature cards that lets you discard/exile it to return Summoners Pact from the graveyard? Or let's you search your library for one? Any way of getting another pact for free, essentially. I couldn't find any on gatherer, but I may have missed one somehow.
The only card I can think of is Noxious Revival (which unfortunately isn't a creature). You could cast Summoner's Pact during your upkeep and then cast Noxious Revival to put it on top of your library so you draw it for your card for the turn.
Regarding the discussion around proxies, it depends on whether you are talking about my opponents or me
I am usually fine with them if my opponents want to use them in their decks. I don't see too many people proxying expensive, hard to get cards where I play. Instead, it is usually just cards they needed to make the deck work and don't usually cost more than a few bucks.
On the other hand, I generally refuse to use them in my own decks. I proxied a Workshop for use in one of my decks with the full intent of buying one. I decided against it, so I took it out of my deck. Granted, I never played a single game with it in my deck. I decided during goldfishing the deck that I didn't want to buy one right now.
I have done the same thing with other cards before and the only times I have played games with proxies is if I only have one or two in the deck and the cards are in the mail.
The one glaring exception to this is a proxy Timetwister in my Narset deck. I got the proxy by buying what was listed as a real Timetwister and it is a very good proxy if you just look at it. Since I did buy it (I got my money back of course) and I only play that deck if someone is playing a deck to combo out turn 3 or earlier, I don't see that being a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I will eventually get a authentic card, but I just haven't done it yet.
In terms of pet peeves, my biggest is probably the use of single shot combos to hate out one person early in the game. I don't like ones that end the entire game either, but at least then we can start a new game. If someone uses a combo to take out a person right away, but then sits there doing nothing the rest of the game, we are now playing a 3 player game for no reason.
As a real example, I was playing in a 4 player game and the person to the left of me was playing Blue/Black (I don't remember the general). On the 3rd or 4th turn, they had gotten out Mindcrank and Duskmantle Guildmage. The next player tried to remove the Duskmantle and the player next to me activated the ability in response. This caused the player that cast the removal spell to be killed almost immediately and they had to then sit there waiting for our game to finish.
I was upset enough that the entire game, I just searched for an infinite combo I had in my deck (Woodfall Primus, Zameck Guildmage, and a sac outlet) just to blow up the dude's lands and get the game done with. I am not proud of working that hard to assemble that partiular combo, but it was just ridiculous to see one person get kicked out so soon.
i agree with you there is some rules muddiness but the way i worded it. i don't think you could cast spells with flashback after gravebinding resolves because exiling the card is part of the cost of flashing back.
Flashback spells could still be cast with this effect. This is because cards are exiled due to flashback when they resolve (after being put on the stack from the graveyard), meaning they are actually exiled from the stack, not the graveyard. It is somewhat similar to how Living End gets around Grafdigger's Cage.
For those who care SCG has MM 15 singles up for pre order.
I checked a few cards I'm interested in but they're a bit optimistic about those prices aren't they?
I'd say, the prices are just barely lower than the current prices.
The mythics are barely lower than the current prices, but the rares seem to have dropped a bit. Eye of Ugin is $5 Noble Hierarch is $40 and Fulminator Mage is $25. And since Star City is known to have higher prices than normal, I am looking forward to the rares and mythics dropping even more. Keep in mind that we still don't really know the size of the print run and nothing has actually been opened to drop any prices.
I also noticed that the boxes are down to $249. I think I saw someone else post that they were at $280 yesterday or this morning so maybe the boxes will drop even further.
Otherwise, I know one other person plays Hazezon Tamar and it is always interesting to see players play against that general because his ability is unique and generally confusing because getting rid of him before the next upkeep doesn't prevent the trigger from happening.
So, I activate Oona's ability naming green with X=35, paying 2 with Rings.
Does that mean I can name another color, say Red an exile 70? Or is the color locked in and its still Green?
The color is chosen on resolution so you actually won't have chosen a color for the first activtion yet (since it can't have resolved before you copied it). You can choose whatever color you want for each activation, so one can be green and the other red.
Both abilities will see that X = 35 even though one is a copy. Here is the rule:
706.10. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn't cast and a copy of an activated ability isn't activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs.
Meaning I will only exile 35 but be able to hit both colors?
If it copies targets as well, how does the combo with basalt monolith and Oona, Rings hit every player at the table??
I see I wasn't very clear. You would still get 70 like you pointed out originally. 35 will look for green and 35 will look for red (or whatever colors you choose).
The combo you mentioned with Monolith, Oona, and Rings isn't quite the same thing. Basically, the combo is just Basalt Monolith and Rings of Brighthearth. This combo gives you infinite colorlesss mana. Then, you just activate Oona 3 times (assuming 3 opponents and assuming you have 3 black or blue mana available) and target a different player with each activation.
I personally see this as turning into a once every 4 years thing. The first MM showed them they were too conservative, so they decided to do it again as soon as possible. 2 years later we have MM2. This will be another success, but if they do this too often, people will get frustrated with staple cards swinging in value so often and God forbid we end up with a modern reserved list. While a modern reserved list is likely 0.00001% likely if they tick people off, just ticking people off with wild swings can have a negative impact on sets. Also, by waiting for years for each MM set to drop, it gives them time for 8 more sets and a bunch of new draft styles to come into existence based upon the new system of set releases. Now if only they would do a legacy masters set but instead just call it Magic Masters so we could have reprints of awesome cards that would be fun to draft and are not even legal in Legacy. Imagine a reprint of Mana Drain. One can dream.
Actually, the possibility of swingy prices is exactly why they should do this every 1-2 years. If everyone knows that Modern cards could be part of a set dedicated to reprinting cards for the Modern pool on a fairly regular basis, we should start to see prices stabilize a little more than we have now. Once people realize that their Dark Confidants or Vendillion Cliques could be printed again, there is less of a chance of people hoarding the cards hoping to make a profit.
This lets the people that want to play with the cards buy them at a reasonable price without having to worry that over the course of 3-4 years that the card will double or triple in value because of the lack of more copies entering circulation.
A more regular release schedule also allows different cards to be reprinted each time as others have mentioned. Imagine if each set bolsters the Modern community, but the supply of Dark Confidants and Tarmogoyfs don't change for another 8 years as they will eventually be skipped. Those cards would go up extremely high (Tarmogoyfs are already there, but imagine they go higher still) until they are reprinted again to drop the prices.
So, I activate Oona's ability naming green with X=35, paying 2 with Rings.
Does that mean I can name another color, say Red an exile 70? Or is the color locked in and its still Green?
The color is chosen on resolution so you actually won't have chosen a color for the first activtion yet (since it can't have resolved before you copied it). You can choose whatever color you want for each activation, so one can be green and the other red.
Both abilities will see that X = 35 even though one is a copy. Here is the rule:
706.10. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn't cast and a copy of an activated ability isn't activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs.
Buried Ruin is ineligible. My guess is Boseiju, but CoB and Citadel are also plausible. (Desert and Contested War Zone are the other possibilities that aren't part of cycles. Neither seems completely impossible, but they're less likely.)
Buried Ruin was printed in M12 and based on the fact that Goblin Fireslinger is in, M12 looks to be an eligible set. This is not to say that Buried Ruin will necessarily be included, but it is possible.
I personally think that City of Brass and Darksteel Citadel makes the most sense based on what we have seen so far. Boseiju would be nice though.
My understanding of the rule is that the destination zone is what matters, not the origination zone. So, if it goes to any of those zones from anywhere, you can move it to the command zone.
This means that in your scenario, you can let it return to your hand initially. Then, if someone makes you shuffle your hand into your library, you can reveal your commander and put it into the Command Zone rather than into your library.
This is all assuming that you have literally no way to interact with them at all. If you don't, mulligan. It's pretty simple. If your deck doesn't have any ways to interact, you should probably rebuild your deck because that is a major flaw.
Seems pretty bad to me when they can win on turn 2 with a good hand and turn 3 with a pretty reasonable hand.
How often have you played against the deck? Winning turn 2 requires a very specific set of cards and is fragile as hell. Any sort of interaction can shatter what they're trying to do. Winning turn 3 is a little easier, but once again, almost any interaction can put them seriously behind. You have to play to your outs.
And with that logic, should we start banning stuff from Storm? It can win on turn 3 if you let it.
Now, keeping all that in mind, I am in favor of keeping an eye on the deck. However, I don't think that its 4 wins are super consistent, especially not if you have ways to interact (which is an often forgot about part of the Turn 4 rule).
Here is a little story when we are talking about interacting. Just yesterday I played against Amulet Bloom with GR Tron. I was on the draw in game one. He played an Amulet of Vigor and passed. I played Urza's Mine and a Relic of Progenitus and passed.
He takes a several minute turn next where he does a bunch of stuff. In the end he has a ton of lands out and two Primeval Titans. Both have haste and one has double strike and I get attacked for lethal.
I can understand the frustration with that type of situation. I play Bloom Titan and to get to the scenario you described appears to be "Magical Christmasland" territory. I am sure there are a number of plays to get to that point, but the only way I could think to get two Titans on the field revolves around needing two titans in hand (or Summoner's Pacts) 2 Amulets on the board, a Summer Bloom and 2 bounce lands on turn 2. That is 7 cards in eight that have to be very specific. That is very unlikely to happen.
In fact, most of my wins with that deck have been turn 4 or after (not counting scoops on turn 2 or 3 when a Titan lands early). In fact, I think these scenarios skew the numbers since I have had opponents scoop on turn 2. While it is true I can win on turn 3 at that point, even landing a titan that fast isn't very consistent and if an opponent doesn't scoop right away, I am more often going to win on turn 4 or after from combat. Hive Mind changes that a little, but Hive Mind is harder to get to than a Titan.
I am not trying to dissuade people from hating on the deck because it is non-interactive because that it a valid viewpoint. It is also one of the reasons I rarely play the deck because I agree it is not fun to play against.
In any case, I don't think I am in favor of any bans with the deck. The sample size with the deck in tournaments is so small that any turn 2 or 3 win will skew the numbers. There are some results that should be discounted because of the player cheating.
The one thing the numbers don't show when looking at winning percentages is the amount of turns it takes to win. The argument that Bloom Titan is powerful is a valid one. However, more often than not, the argument relies on the fact that the deck can eke out 2nd and 3rd turn wins. Is the winning percentage of this deck solely because it can win quickly, or is it because it can play to a few different outs over a slightly longer game? If the majority (not all of course) of the wins are turn 4 and after, then there really isn't a basis for banning based on that criteria. And it isn't even close to being prevalent enough to ban based on being oppressive.
Well like I sad Im not mad and as you Im against any bans at this point.
I consider the deck being on the watchlist though. The same way Pod was. A little additional push is all that the decks needs to become ban worthy in my opinion. Though Amulet Bloom doesn't get better with each set release as Pod did.
Also really like your Katarina avatar
My favorite character in League of Legends
I agree that it is certainly on the edge, but as you mentioned, it takes a lot to make it any better. There are very few flex slots in the deck.
Thanks on the avatar. I actually wasn't sure who it was as I don't play League of Legends. I just found it online and liked the image. At least now I know.
This is all assuming that you have literally no way to interact with them at all. If you don't, mulligan. It's pretty simple. If your deck doesn't have any ways to interact, you should probably rebuild your deck because that is a major flaw.
Seems pretty bad to me when they can win on turn 2 with a good hand and turn 3 with a pretty reasonable hand.
How often have you played against the deck? Winning turn 2 requires a very specific set of cards and is fragile as hell. Any sort of interaction can shatter what they're trying to do. Winning turn 3 is a little easier, but once again, almost any interaction can put them seriously behind. You have to play to your outs.
And with that logic, should we start banning stuff from Storm? It can win on turn 3 if you let it.
Now, keeping all that in mind, I am in favor of keeping an eye on the deck. However, I don't think that its 4 wins are super consistent, especially not if you have ways to interact (which is an often forgot about part of the Turn 4 rule).
Here is a little story when we are talking about interacting. Just yesterday I played against Amulet Bloom with GR Tron. I was on the draw in game one. He played an Amulet of Vigor and passed. I played Urza's Mine and a Relic of Progenitus and passed.
He takes a several minute turn next where he does a bunch of stuff. In the end he has a ton of lands out and two Primeval Titans. Both have haste and one has double strike and I get attacked for lethal.
I can understand the frustration with that type of situation. I play Bloom Titan and to get to the scenario you described appears to be "Magical Christmasland" territory. I am sure there are a number of plays to get to that point, but the only way I could think to get two Titans on the field revolves around needing two titans in hand (or Summoner's Pacts) 2 Amulets on the board, a Summer Bloom and 2 bounce lands on turn 2. That is 7 cards in eight that have to be very specific. That is very unlikely to happen.
In fact, most of my wins with that deck have been turn 4 or after (not counting scoops on turn 2 or 3 when a Titan lands early). In fact, I think these scenarios skew the numbers since I have had opponents scoop on turn 2. While it is true I can win on turn 3 at that point, even landing a titan that fast isn't very consistent and if an opponent doesn't scoop right away, I am more often going to win on turn 4 or after from combat. Hive Mind changes that a little, but Hive Mind is harder to get to than a Titan.
I am not trying to dissuade people from hating on the deck because it is non-interactive because that it a valid viewpoint. It is also one of the reasons I rarely play the deck because I agree it is not fun to play against.
In any case, I don't think I am in favor of any bans with the deck. The sample size with the deck in tournaments is so small that any turn 2 or 3 win will skew the numbers. There are some results that should be discounted because of the player cheating.
The one thing the numbers don't show when looking at winning percentages is the amount of turns it takes to win. The argument that Bloom Titan is powerful is a valid one. However, more often than not, the argument relies on the fact that the deck can eke out 2nd and 3rd turn wins. Is the winning percentage of this deck solely because it can win quickly, or is it because it can play to a few different outs over a slightly longer game? If the majority (not all of course) of the wins are turn 4 and after, then there really isn't a basis for banning based on that criteria. And it isn't even close to being prevalent enough to ban based on being oppressive.
That is correct. Here is the relevant rule:
The only card I can think of is Noxious Revival (which unfortunately isn't a creature). You could cast Summoner's Pact during your upkeep and then cast Noxious Revival to put it on top of your library so you draw it for your card for the turn.
I am usually fine with them if my opponents want to use them in their decks. I don't see too many people proxying expensive, hard to get cards where I play. Instead, it is usually just cards they needed to make the deck work and don't usually cost more than a few bucks.
On the other hand, I generally refuse to use them in my own decks. I proxied a Workshop for use in one of my decks with the full intent of buying one. I decided against it, so I took it out of my deck. Granted, I never played a single game with it in my deck. I decided during goldfishing the deck that I didn't want to buy one right now.
I have done the same thing with other cards before and the only times I have played games with proxies is if I only have one or two in the deck and the cards are in the mail.
The one glaring exception to this is a proxy Timetwister in my Narset deck. I got the proxy by buying what was listed as a real Timetwister and it is a very good proxy if you just look at it. Since I did buy it (I got my money back of course) and I only play that deck if someone is playing a deck to combo out turn 3 or earlier, I don't see that being a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I will eventually get a authentic card, but I just haven't done it yet.
In terms of pet peeves, my biggest is probably the use of single shot combos to hate out one person early in the game. I don't like ones that end the entire game either, but at least then we can start a new game. If someone uses a combo to take out a person right away, but then sits there doing nothing the rest of the game, we are now playing a 3 player game for no reason.
As a real example, I was playing in a 4 player game and the person to the left of me was playing Blue/Black (I don't remember the general). On the 3rd or 4th turn, they had gotten out Mindcrank and Duskmantle Guildmage. The next player tried to remove the Duskmantle and the player next to me activated the ability in response. This caused the player that cast the removal spell to be killed almost immediately and they had to then sit there waiting for our game to finish.
I was upset enough that the entire game, I just searched for an infinite combo I had in my deck (Woodfall Primus, Zameck Guildmage, and a sac outlet) just to blow up the dude's lands and get the game done with. I am not proud of working that hard to assemble that partiular combo, but it was just ridiculous to see one person get kicked out so soon.
Flashback spells could still be cast with this effect. This is because cards are exiled due to flashback when they resolve (after being put on the stack from the graveyard), meaning they are actually exiled from the stack, not the graveyard. It is somewhat similar to how Living End gets around Grafdigger's Cage.
Also, Momentous Fall can be good too.
The mythics are barely lower than the current prices, but the rares seem to have dropped a bit. Eye of Ugin is $5 Noble Hierarch is $40 and Fulminator Mage is $25. And since Star City is known to have higher prices than normal, I am looking forward to the rares and mythics dropping even more. Keep in mind that we still don't really know the size of the print run and nothing has actually been opened to drop any prices.
I also noticed that the boxes are down to $249. I think I saw someone else post that they were at $280 yesterday or this morning so maybe the boxes will drop even further.
Xira Arien
Rasputin Dreamweaver
Rubinia Soulsinger
I have had these sleeved up in the past, but I took them apart for various reasons:
Adun Oakenshield
Hazezon Tamar
Nicol Bolas
Gwendlyn Di Corci
Otherwise, I know one other person plays Hazezon Tamar and it is always interesting to see players play against that general because his ability is unique and generally confusing because getting rid of him before the next upkeep doesn't prevent the trigger from happening.
I have also seen Angus MacKenzie once or twice.
I see I wasn't very clear. You would still get 70 like you pointed out originally. 35 will look for green and 35 will look for red (or whatever colors you choose).
The combo you mentioned with Monolith, Oona, and Rings isn't quite the same thing. Basically, the combo is just Basalt Monolith and Rings of Brighthearth. This combo gives you infinite colorlesss mana. Then, you just activate Oona 3 times (assuming 3 opponents and assuming you have 3 black or blue mana available) and target a different player with each activation.
Actually, the possibility of swingy prices is exactly why they should do this every 1-2 years. If everyone knows that Modern cards could be part of a set dedicated to reprinting cards for the Modern pool on a fairly regular basis, we should start to see prices stabilize a little more than we have now. Once people realize that their Dark Confidants or Vendillion Cliques could be printed again, there is less of a chance of people hoarding the cards hoping to make a profit.
This lets the people that want to play with the cards buy them at a reasonable price without having to worry that over the course of 3-4 years that the card will double or triple in value because of the lack of more copies entering circulation.
A more regular release schedule also allows different cards to be reprinted each time as others have mentioned. Imagine if each set bolsters the Modern community, but the supply of Dark Confidants and Tarmogoyfs don't change for another 8 years as they will eventually be skipped. Those cards would go up extremely high (Tarmogoyfs are already there, but imagine they go higher still) until they are reprinted again to drop the prices.
I do like the idea of a "Magic Masters" set.
The color is chosen on resolution so you actually won't have chosen a color for the first activtion yet (since it can't have resolved before you copied it). You can choose whatever color you want for each activation, so one can be green and the other red.
Both abilities will see that X = 35 even though one is a copy. Here is the rule:
Buried Ruin was printed in M12 and based on the fact that Goblin Fireslinger is in, M12 looks to be an eligible set. This is not to say that Buried Ruin will necessarily be included, but it is possible.
I personally think that City of Brass and Darksteel Citadel makes the most sense based on what we have seen so far. Boseiju would be nice though.
This means that in your scenario, you can let it return to your hand initially. Then, if someone makes you shuffle your hand into your library, you can reveal your commander and put it into the Command Zone rather than into your library.
I agree that it is certainly on the edge, but as you mentioned, it takes a lot to make it any better. There are very few flex slots in the deck.
Thanks on the avatar. I actually wasn't sure who it was as I don't play League of Legends. I just found it online and liked the image. At least now I know.
I can understand the frustration with that type of situation. I play Bloom Titan and to get to the scenario you described appears to be "Magical Christmasland" territory. I am sure there are a number of plays to get to that point, but the only way I could think to get two Titans on the field revolves around needing two titans in hand (or Summoner's Pacts) 2 Amulets on the board, a Summer Bloom and 2 bounce lands on turn 2. That is 7 cards in eight that have to be very specific. That is very unlikely to happen.
In fact, most of my wins with that deck have been turn 4 or after (not counting scoops on turn 2 or 3 when a Titan lands early). In fact, I think these scenarios skew the numbers since I have had opponents scoop on turn 2. While it is true I can win on turn 3 at that point, even landing a titan that fast isn't very consistent and if an opponent doesn't scoop right away, I am more often going to win on turn 4 or after from combat. Hive Mind changes that a little, but Hive Mind is harder to get to than a Titan.
I am not trying to dissuade people from hating on the deck because it is non-interactive because that it a valid viewpoint. It is also one of the reasons I rarely play the deck because I agree it is not fun to play against.
In any case, I don't think I am in favor of any bans with the deck. The sample size with the deck in tournaments is so small that any turn 2 or 3 win will skew the numbers. There are some results that should be discounted because of the player cheating.
The one thing the numbers don't show when looking at winning percentages is the amount of turns it takes to win. The argument that Bloom Titan is powerful is a valid one. However, more often than not, the argument relies on the fact that the deck can eke out 2nd and 3rd turn wins. Is the winning percentage of this deck solely because it can win quickly, or is it because it can play to a few different outs over a slightly longer game? If the majority (not all of course) of the wins are turn 4 and after, then there really isn't a basis for banning based on that criteria. And it isn't even close to being prevalent enough to ban based on being oppressive.