Smother was really great before Push came around, so I guess he easily opted to include it, with maybe forgetting about cards like Murderous Cut. I'm currently running 2 Secluded Glen as well and don't think they are odd at all. Still like the ability to have as much T1 untapped black as possible and this can help a lot, although I understand everyone ditching it.
I even like the Liliana, the Last Hope to be honest (but thats partially because I hate playing against a resolved one..)
I often read somewhere, that Faeries could be at least Tier 2 if and only if more people would work on decklists together. We got at least three different types in our thread ("Classic Fae", "Copter Fae" and "Aetherborn Fae"(w(/o) Kalitas). If only some work together is needed, I would want to start this now:
First of all I guess we all should list the greatest Problems we face playing different kind of decks. I haven't played a tournament since I started playing again, so I can't really add much to this discussion (played some games on cockatrice, but that was against Tier 3 only and I don't think you'll face many of those decks in a real tournament) and would like to skip this part for now.
So it would be appreciated if you all could list what makes games hard for you playing different decks, and maybe what cards you really like in those matches.
First of all I would like to thank Nardraug as well for this detailed Report. Nice to see that you and that list could do so well! Quite some things seem to have changed since I last played (like 2 - 2 1/2 years ago). Gifted Aetherborn could be real tech in this deck... although I still like Mistbind Clique a lot (I can't really get behind the statements it requires to much setup for to little reward. Well, you do need at least 1 Fae + 1 Mutavault (and four other lands) but the reward of one is great and chaining two is really huge). I guess the Aetherborn was enough to keep Death Shadow in check?
Sad thing to hear about your DQ though. While I read I couldn't really understand why nobody called the judge, or at least (this probably would have been the way I would have chosen here.. and have chosen in small tournaments before) agree on the higher life total as this wouldn't have led to this problem. I could follow your reasoning though. As spellcheck said I hope the DQ was all that happened now and wish you all the best luck for future tournaments!
I've noticed, and will warn you now, when I start thinking hard I play with my beard a lot. I didn't realize it until I started rewatching my own streams for note taking g lol
I've got a beard myself and I know that habit Just wanted to compliment you on that fullbeard, as I have a style most of the metalheads seem to wear (so no hair on the side of the face... you know?)... but I think that starts another topic that doesn't have much in common with Fae.
To say something on topic: I will give some feedback after testing with Scion... but that could take some time as the next Modern event is in two and a half weeks :X
@Brian: I did not think you said the rat was bad, simply thought I might give Scion another shot.
The fun thing is: We all know that Fae is a highly customizeable deck, which is one of the reasons the discussion can be "hostile" in here, as different persons have a hard time overcoming their views to adapt what others say. I can see some of this (well, without being hostile of course ... don't really know how I should explain this clearly, so I hope everyone gets it) in our discussion. For instance I think the Scapeshift matchup at least can be completely different, as I won several counterwars against them and never lost because I haven't had enough pressure and I think it's one of our best matchups
Part of me thinks it's really nice that everyone can has his/her cup of tea with the deck (and this shows how powerful the core can be) but it's really hard to compare things when lists can differ quite a bit. For instance I may not be the best in the Storm matchup (as this deck CAN go nuts quite easily) but the matches I've won probably included some more countermagic than SSS.
Just tried to watch something and I like your beard! :X
Pod taking over the game with a topdeck really depends on the boardstate imho (as I can't really imagine a time with an empty board that anything they drew would have made a huge difference... but then again those vacuum discussions are quite worthless as Magic is a hell of a complex game and one would have to take number of cards in hands, life totals etc. into account).
I guess I just jump over my shadow and give Scion another shot in this deck and just see how it goes. I mean I was kind of satified with Pack Rat, but optimizing never hurts.
I don't really see how swapping dead cards in one matchup for dead cards in another helps though. I get you often want to draw something relevant (so removal in creature heavy matchups) than a counterspell that comes one turn to late... but by skipping all remands/snares your UWR/scapeshift/storm matchup WILL get worse... but I guess we can agree that it comes down to metagaming here, so that's rather fine with me.
I never saw one of your streams, but I might do if there are some recorded somewhere. I too often board out Discard when I feel it's rather irrelevant and I have to get quite some sideboard pieces, so I can understand your thoughts on that so far at least.
Can we get a full on discussion of Dig Through Time in this deck specifically though? I think it could have been good except for the fact that it feels like it requires you to already have been in a good position mana-cost wise. To cast it you need anywhere from 8 mana sources or 6 cards in your graveyard, adding and subtracting from each as necessary. Which means most likely you are not slipping up with a constant stream of mana and cards (and sometimes that just doesn't happen). I feel like this card is easily fueled by a liliana on either side of the board, so maybe it helps in the rock/rack matchups when we need specific cards?
I tested some against U-Tron and they felt terrible, but that may depend on that matchup. I played a pretty standard list with Pack Rat, Snapcaster and fetches added, so no cantrips which might have been another factor. I often had one or even both of them (played 2) in my hand without being able to cast them effectively.
I did not play many games though the test isn't that expressive but that again they simply felt terrible. I have a feeling that Fae might not be able to support them easily, although Liliana would have helped a huge deal (but I really don't like her either :)) I think the card needs to much setup for us to shine and decks like Scapeshift and UWR probably could use it way better.
We should pray that Ancestral Visions will be unbanned some day
@Briangrp: First of all congrats on your finishes. I don't really get your explanation for Scion though. The described Board state probably had 3 Living tokens + Tar Pit. You played the Scion and attacked for 10 with Tar pit (so 3 token *2 damage + 1 from Scion + 3 from Tar Pit). The question here is: Would you have lost the game if it was 1 turn longer? Exactly that would have happened without Scion (3 damage from token + 3 tar pit, then 4 from tokens +3 from Tar Pit) where even a Spellstutter would have sealed the deal. I don't think that example was really impressive to be honest but then again, I don't know the exact board state and if it had mattered its fine.
The thing I see with Scion is: He is often a 1/1 dude without impact (no blossom, only 1 spellstutter and such) where Snapcaster (-2 Scion) or the additional Vendilion Clique (-1 Scion) probably would have had way more impact. Of course this depends on so much factors that it's hard to really tell but I probably gained more value from Turn 2 Snapcasters than I would have had from Scion of Oona so far.
Without early counter magic I think your Tron matchup is even worse? Probably trading this one for the sake of Pod and co, so that may be fine. I think you underestimate the role of Spell Snare though, as it often helps to force your spells through rather than being used to defensively
One last question I'm really interested in: Did you test with Pack Rats? Can't remember if you ever said something and I think they have way more impact than Scion of Oona (and help playing proactive as well).
Don't play the BB on turn 2 if they are on the play, have a mana guy and you have a leak (i only have 2 leak in my list, but this has come up multiple times), you must stop the pod, you can always just remove the guy they play if they don't have pod. Also, don't be tricked into playing the BB turn 3 in the above scenario, as they could just be playing around your counters
Not commenting on the rest but if they are on the play with a mana dork they simply slam Pod down T2 if they have it, otherwise going for blossom might be correct. Therefore you should kill their dorks T1/2 (otd/otp) if possible to slow them down. Neither Pod nor Finks are really welcomned T2..
You could have just read one page back for some suggestions and, if you did, at least quote someone to link to the already existing discussion. Sorry if this sounds hard, but I'm a little bit annoyed by the fact that often people pop up simply to open discussions over things we are already discussing or discussed them 2-5 pages back.
Furthermore I, and many people will agree, don't necessarily think that Delta should be a 4-of AS the lifeloss does hurt a lot. I especially don't see how your list supports Pendelhaven better than any manabase beforehand, if you are going to fetch for Islands most of the time (so all other duals would have been nearly the same). By the way was Pendelhaven played before either way.
You could elaborate why you think Delta helps more than it hurts, especially if you don't plan on playing Shackles, which would be a valid reason.
My last point is: Discard is already emitted from mainboards, granted but don't you think that Delta does hurt the Deck if you are considering how many you could run anyway? They are not exactly necessary in combo matches but they do some great work there so it could be arguable if the potential loss of Thoughtseize isn't too much for nearly no improvement in the manabase (with only 3 Islands and 4 Deltas you are agruably still a bit weak to Blood Moon, at least if you have to fetch for a Watery Grave for color fixing).
//I would be so happy if all people could read at least the last 2-5 pages for the sake of omitting those duplicate discussions :X
What does everyone here think of Murderous Cut? Since this is the only black deck in Modern that wants removal, has too much lifeloss to play dismember, and doesn't run Bob, I think that it might fit here.
You can easily play dismember in Fae without a problem.. but leaving that aside I think it would be a one-off at max. simply because delve is "expensive" and it won't work early in a game
@vonklaude: Your points are valid, but you are missing the main reason for the colourfix: Immunity to Blood Moon. The real question might be: Is Blood Moon dangerous enough to pay the life for your manabase or simply try to dodge it. I would say try to dodge it, as you mostly will be able to counter it OR still be able to win with some board presence (and a normal Island) but I think we should at least find an optimal Blood Moon save Manabase to really judge it.
The Immunity to Blood Moon would be the point that invalidates Sunken Ruins, as it would be a mountain as well.
Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays 1.
Ferocious - If you control a creature with power 4 or greater, counter that spell instead.
Seems like a very interesting sideboard card. Potentially stronger in Scion of Oona or Pack Rat builds that are more likely to hit 4 power. Thoughts?
I honestly don't think that this is worth a sideboard slot. Even in Pack Rat builds you have a hard time hitting 4 Power, in Scion builds you need at least 2 Faeries (Mistbind+Scion, Scion+Vendilion) to reliably hardcounter. Without Scion (and Rats instead for instance) you always have to fear the "blowout" if your critter gets killed. I think this card would mostly be Non-Creature Force Spike in our deck, something we do not want.
Some things to note: I guess nobody here plays under 14 Faeries (at least 13 should be in every list though, as I could imagine someone cutting 1 Vendilion or Mistbind) so the count of Glens or Rivers should be okay.
I like your numbers (tapped/untapped) but I don't like the land split to be honest. Of course it is highly unlikely to draw all 4 Deltas, but if this happens you have to be fetching for swamps instead of Islands, something I wouldn't really like. With only two Islands you probably won't draw any naturally and an early Moon could still be backbreaking.
Another thing is, your Deltas will never be able to colour fix... again, the probablity for another dual is high but it could still happen and a hand with Polluted Delta, Pendelhaven, Mutavault, Discard, Blossom, SSS, Mana Leak or such would be terrible but otherwise holdable (although it might be questionable if you really would like to hold it).
The question is what changes we really would like to make here. The easiest one with staying @25 lands (which is one to much in my opinion) would be swapping one swamp for a Watery Grave. I would probably cut one River for another Island as well (still not THAT impressive in numbers, but at least round about 12% more chance to draw one)
I would also say BG/x is about 50/50, and although I don't know if I would say anyone is favoured it's clearly no _bad_ matchup.
Shackles could be a deal, as it improves some matchups (and yes, BG/x could be one of them, as they already need to Decay the blossom), but we would still lose % against Burn. I would, like Anthreion suggested, not cut the discard though, as I think you would lose to much when going Mono U Fae with Blossom. I would recommend cutting 1 discard spell (resulting in 4 mainboard) and 1 removal (again, 4 mainboard) though.
Edit: The idea of splashing white, because it's "nearly no cost" when playing fetchies is not correct in my opinion. Of course you fetch anyway but with Path you HAVE to get this one hallowed fountain if you can, because otherwise drawn Path may be useless, which is not a good plan.
Please at least try to understand my argument. I never even implied you would play fetch->shock->seize, as I even said you'd grab a fountain. In such a mana hungry deck it WILL happen that you have to fetch at least two times to get your colours. Starting a round late btw never implied Blossom can't hit on T2, it simply means your land in T1 enters tapped (like the examples even said... Tar Pit for instance or fetch-> tapped dual).
I probably misunderstood that comment then (as did adreena)... but with Fetches Moon is only half as scary anyways.
I even like the Liliana, the Last Hope to be honest (but thats partially because I hate playing against a resolved one..)
Only question I have is for evaluation purposes: Have you ever tried playing Gifted Aetherborn?
First of all I guess we all should list the greatest Problems we face playing different kind of decks. I haven't played a tournament since I started playing again, so I can't really add much to this discussion (played some games on cockatrice, but that was against Tier 3 only and I don't think you'll face many of those decks in a real tournament) and would like to skip this part for now.
So it would be appreciated if you all could list what makes games hard for you playing different decks, and maybe what cards you really like in those matches.
Sad thing to hear about your DQ though. While I read I couldn't really understand why nobody called the judge, or at least (this probably would have been the way I would have chosen here.. and have chosen in small tournaments before) agree on the higher life total as this wouldn't have led to this problem. I could follow your reasoning though. As spellcheck said I hope the DQ was all that happened now and wish you all the best luck for future tournaments!
I've got a beard myself and I know that habit
To say something on topic: I will give some feedback after testing with Scion... but that could take some time as the next Modern event is in two and a half weeks :X
The fun thing is: We all know that Fae is a highly customizeable deck, which is one of the reasons the discussion can be "hostile" in here, as different persons have a hard time overcoming their views to adapt what others say. I can see some of this (well, without being hostile of course ... don't really know how I should explain this clearly, so I hope everyone gets it) in our discussion. For instance I think the Scapeshift matchup at least can be completely different, as I won several counterwars against them and never lost because I haven't had enough pressure and I think it's one of our best matchups
Part of me thinks it's really nice that everyone can has his/her cup of tea with the deck (and this shows how powerful the core can be) but it's really hard to compare things when lists can differ quite a bit. For instance I may not be the best in the Storm matchup (as this deck CAN go nuts quite easily) but the matches I've won probably included some more countermagic than SSS.
Just tried to watch something and I like your beard! :X
Edit: WTF 55$ for Hurkyl's Recall sounds nuts oO
Pod taking over the game with a topdeck really depends on the boardstate imho (as I can't really imagine a time with an empty board that anything they drew would have made a huge difference... but then again those vacuum discussions are quite worthless as Magic is a hell of a complex game and one would have to take number of cards in hands, life totals etc. into account).
I guess I just jump over my shadow and give Scion another shot in this deck and just see how it goes. I mean I was kind of satified with Pack Rat, but optimizing never hurts.
I don't really see how swapping dead cards in one matchup for dead cards in another helps though. I get you often want to draw something relevant (so removal in creature heavy matchups) than a counterspell that comes one turn to late... but by skipping all remands/snares your UWR/scapeshift/storm matchup WILL get worse... but I guess we can agree that it comes down to metagaming here, so that's rather fine with me.
I never saw one of your streams, but I might do if there are some recorded somewhere. I too often board out Discard when I feel it's rather irrelevant and I have to get quite some sideboard pieces, so I can understand your thoughts on that so far at least.
I tested some against U-Tron and they felt terrible, but that may depend on that matchup. I played a pretty standard list with Pack Rat, Snapcaster and fetches added, so no cantrips which might have been another factor. I often had one or even both of them (played 2) in my hand without being able to cast them effectively.
I did not play many games though the test isn't that expressive but that again they simply felt terrible. I have a feeling that Fae might not be able to support them easily, although Liliana would have helped a huge deal (but I really don't like her either :)) I think the card needs to much setup for us to shine and decks like Scapeshift and UWR probably could use it way better.
We should pray that Ancestral Visions will be unbanned some day
@Briangrp: First of all congrats on your finishes. I don't really get your explanation for Scion though. The described Board state probably had 3 Living tokens + Tar Pit. You played the Scion and attacked for 10 with Tar pit (so 3 token *2 damage + 1 from Scion + 3 from Tar Pit). The question here is: Would you have lost the game if it was 1 turn longer? Exactly that would have happened without Scion (3 damage from token + 3 tar pit, then 4 from tokens +3 from Tar Pit) where even a Spellstutter would have sealed the deal. I don't think that example was really impressive to be honest but then again, I don't know the exact board state and if it had mattered its fine.
The thing I see with Scion is: He is often a 1/1 dude without impact (no blossom, only 1 spellstutter and such) where Snapcaster (-2 Scion) or the additional Vendilion Clique (-1 Scion) probably would have had way more impact. Of course this depends on so much factors that it's hard to really tell but I probably gained more value from Turn 2 Snapcasters than I would have had from Scion of Oona so far.
Without early counter magic I think your Tron matchup is even worse? Probably trading this one for the sake of Pod and co, so that may be fine. I think you underestimate the role of Spell Snare though, as it often helps to force your spells through rather than being used to defensively
One last question I'm really interested in: Did you test with Pack Rats? Can't remember if you ever said something and I think they have way more impact than Scion of Oona (and help playing proactive as well).
Not commenting on the rest but if they are on the play with a mana dork they simply slam Pod down T2 if they have it, otherwise going for blossom might be correct. Therefore you should kill their dorks T1/2 (otd/otp) if possible to slow them down. Neither Pod nor Finks are really welcomned T2..
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/542105-ub-x-faeries?comment=2572
Furthermore I, and many people will agree, don't necessarily think that Delta should be a 4-of AS the lifeloss does hurt a lot. I especially don't see how your list supports Pendelhaven better than any manabase beforehand, if you are going to fetch for Islands most of the time (so all other duals would have been nearly the same). By the way was Pendelhaven played before either way.
You could elaborate why you think Delta helps more than it hurts, especially if you don't plan on playing Shackles, which would be a valid reason.
My last point is: Discard is already emitted from mainboards, granted but don't you think that Delta does hurt the Deck if you are considering how many you could run anyway? They are not exactly necessary in combo matches but they do some great work there so it could be arguable if the potential loss of Thoughtseize isn't too much for nearly no improvement in the manabase (with only 3 Islands and 4 Deltas you are agruably still a bit weak to Blood Moon, at least if you have to fetch for a Watery Grave for color fixing).
//I would be so happy if all people could read at least the last 2-5 pages for the sake of omitting those duplicate discussions :X
You can easily play dismember in Fae without a problem.. but leaving that aside I think it would be a one-off at max. simply because delve is "expensive" and it won't work early in a game
The Immunity to Blood Moon would be the point that invalidates Sunken Ruins, as it would be a mountain as well.
I honestly don't think that this is worth a sideboard slot. Even in Pack Rat builds you have a hard time hitting 4 Power, in Scion builds you need at least 2 Faeries (Mistbind+Scion, Scion+Vendilion) to reliably hardcounter. Without Scion (and Rats instead for instance) you always have to fear the "blowout" if your critter gets killed. I think this card would mostly be Non-Creature Force Spike in our deck, something we do not want.
Some things to note: I guess nobody here plays under 14 Faeries (at least 13 should be in every list though, as I could imagine someone cutting 1 Vendilion or Mistbind) so the count of Glens or Rivers should be okay.
I like your numbers (tapped/untapped) but I don't like the land split to be honest. Of course it is highly unlikely to draw all 4 Deltas, but if this happens you have to be fetching for swamps instead of Islands, something I wouldn't really like. With only two Islands you probably won't draw any naturally and an early Moon could still be backbreaking.
Another thing is, your Deltas will never be able to colour fix... again, the probablity for another dual is high but it could still happen and a hand with Polluted Delta, Pendelhaven, Mutavault, Discard, Blossom, SSS, Mana Leak or such would be terrible but otherwise holdable (although it might be questionable if you really would like to hold it).
The question is what changes we really would like to make here. The easiest one with staying @25 lands (which is one to much in my opinion) would be swapping one swamp for a Watery Grave. I would probably cut one River for another Island as well (still not THAT impressive in numbers, but at least round about 12% more chance to draw one)
Shackles could be a deal, as it improves some matchups (and yes, BG/x could be one of them, as they already need to Decay the blossom), but we would still lose % against Burn. I would, like Anthreion suggested, not cut the discard though, as I think you would lose to much when going Mono U Fae with Blossom. I would recommend cutting 1 discard spell (resulting in 4 mainboard) and 1 removal (again, 4 mainboard) though.
Edit: The idea of splashing white, because it's "nearly no cost" when playing fetchies is not correct in my opinion. Of course you fetch anyway but with Path you HAVE to get this one hallowed fountain if you can, because otherwise drawn Path may be useless, which is not a good plan.
I probably misunderstood that comment then (as did adreena)... but with Fetches Moon is only half as scary anyways.