I think this deck is still being figured out. There are a lot of different angles this deck can take. The deck version I am playing is a tweaked version of Reid Duke's list that is based on being a very midrange deck while trying to fire off ancestral visions to keep ahead of decks once you get into the middle of the game. There is a combo version that is using Deceiver/Krasis with Kiki to play a bit like twin using Traverse the Ulvenwald to tutor and make sure you hit you land drops. Then there is a Blue Moon like deck that is using Goyf and Huntmaster to close out games.
Gobo seems nice but for 6 mana he better damn near end the game. But requires a additional sideboard slot to be good. In addition with the current meta of Jund, Burn, Abzan Company being too decks he seems a bit slow to be effective. But I am more than happy to be wrong!
You are running much more of a moon build, which may be right with BGx, Abzan combo, affinity and tron being the big players right now.
How have you been finding batterskull? I have been debating replacing that thragtusk in my board with it. I have decided not to so far because I am playing Shackles and I expect people to bring in artifact hate against me.
You pretty much want AV turn 1, and thus 4 are a prerequisite.
I used to play 4, but found that was too many and I commonly preferred 4 serums. Too many things can mess with AV, remand or counter. Processors can eat them, or you could die before it goes off. Serum smooths out so many draws, and allows for so many better keeps. Just my experience so far. The deck is strong and I think will be tier 2. Still needs more tweaking. One more late game threat would be lovely, or counterspell if that ever makes it into modern.
I am running really hot with this build right now. I am been testing against a very good Abzan player, and on MTGO. I find that I can control most match ups, but can create quite a bit of pressure against control decks. 3 AV has proven to be correct and mixes well with 4 serums which really smooths out draws. I am going to continue to test online.
My favorite win occurred with this play: Opponent is playing tokens in game 2 (I am up 1 game) and is at 3 life. The board is empty except for 4 anthems and I have an AV with 1 counter left. They pass with 2 cards in hand. AV grabs me Sarkhan, a serum and 2 other cards. I have 8 lands down. I cast serum to find another land and scry a snapcaster and a spell snare. Snap on top and snare on bottom. Cast Sarkhan, +1 to draw the snap, cast and target the bolt in my yard and cast it for the win. I had to change my pants after that play.
Anyway, I think this deck has play and can morph into other variants including combo. I'll report any other success I have.
Has anyone tested Sarkhan Unbroken in this deck ?
He seems rather good.
I used to use him in Tarmotwin and he did win a few games, but I am not sure the +1 is where we want to be. I am debating mainboarding 1-2 Keranos. This decks wants to go long and draw cards. The problem I have been having with it is it may go long, but it can't close out the game well. Keranos will help with that I believe, but I still think there needs to be another strong curve topper. Ætherling pops into mind, since we run so many blue sources.
Hey everyone. I'm taking this baby to states. What is everyone's opinion on shackles? Worth it? I'm trying to decide if I should drop them and play two main deck blood moon. Or perhaps a different option. Thoughts? Testing results?
Depends on the meta. In a creature based meta they are friggin amazing. They single handedly beat zoo, infect, affinity, make life real hard on BGx strats and are just spicy tech most people don't see coming game 1. That being said they are dead vs ad nausem, storm, most control builds as well. But they do let you steal man lands. I would keep them in for now.
I'm considering running card for card what Reid post on CFB recently. The SB seems light on answers vs Abzan Company though. I'm sort of stuck between playing this and Abzan Company.
The potential hate would really be cards like Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus as RUG doesn't have many exile or graveyard hate effects. I guess Grafdigger's Cage could also work well, but it kind of hurts our snaps and GDD.
Note that redirect is harder to cast, but lets you take kolaghan's commands, cryptic commands, electrolyzes, among other things. If you can afford double blue (if you play clique, or cryptic, you should be able to) its probably just straight up better, barring bloodmoon.
Redirect just seems better since we play 10 blue sources and 9 fetches, at least 8 of which get blue. Swerve is harder with R which we only have 3-5 sources for.
I love the card but I think it wants to be in more pure control builds (going straight into my turns deck). While I does bounce snap, clique and GDD, it also sends your goyfs and hunt masters back, which is not so good. That all being said it may be a great SB card versus token based decks or aggro beat down deck.
I just started a league with my above list. I may have to pick up some TITIs to test.
Been playing the deck online a bunch today. It feels real. Been beating a bunch of T2 decks, Abzan, burn and D&T included, from crazy behind wins. Empty board vs 2 4/5 goyfs. This deck has so much card draw it can just rally out of no where. Not sure if it is T1, but definitely has the feel of a T2 deck.
Ended up going 3-1 and taking second (also $40 which was nice). I beat WR Kiki-resto-sin prodder 2-1, lost to Cruel control 0-2, beat Kiki Chord 2-1 and beat UG infect 2-0.
I wish I could give a detailed report but I am exhausted and I don't fully remember how things played out. I will say that AV felt great, drawing 4 cards at the start of your turn felt broken. Out of the 11 games I played, I got to live the dream and Goblin Dark-Dwellers into Ancestral Vision 3 times. This deck had a really interesting feel. A lot of the times I felt like I was playing control, but at the same time dropping goyfs, with a touch of tempo. I ended a lot of games with bolt-snap-bolt, and one with GDD targeting an electrolyze.
The one matchup where I felt I really struggled was against Grixis cruel control. He had all the answers for the creature beat down and even though I was drawing tons of cards I could never get going. Huntmaster was nice, but it never really helped, just immediately ate removal. Maybe Arlinn Kord could be good. Anyway, very happy with the deck, small tweaks needed but the core felt really good.
So other cards I want to consider are Harvest Pyre and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. Harvest Pyre seems to be wanting to solve the issues that Twin used to have, and Teferi is just great against control which I felt that this deck struggled against.
I am wondering if anyone has considered using Phyrexian Metamorph in this deck? I am not 100% about the interaction between Phyrexian Metamorph and Thought-Knot Seer since Thought-Knots text says "Whenever Thought-Knot Seer enters the battlefield" instead of "As Thought-Knot Seer enters the battlefield". If we can get the enter the battlefield trigger off of Thought-Knot we can clone it for more disruption, clone Reality Smasher for that extra surprise attack, or any other creature or artifact that is on the board besides Blight Herder.
This is indeed how it works. However, it cannot trigger on cast effects, since when it was cast it was a Phyrexian Metamorph, but it enters the battlefield as wha ever it copied.
Gobo seems nice but for 6 mana he better damn near end the game. But requires a additional sideboard slot to be good. In addition with the current meta of Jund, Burn, Abzan Company being too decks he seems a bit slow to be effective. But I am more than happy to be wrong!
How have you been finding batterskull? I have been debating replacing that thragtusk in my board with it. I have decided not to so far because I am playing Shackles and I expect people to bring in artifact hate against me.
I used to play 4, but found that was too many and I commonly preferred 4 serums. Too many things can mess with AV, remand or counter. Processors can eat them, or you could die before it goes off. Serum smooths out so many draws, and allows for so many better keeps. Just my experience so far. The deck is strong and I think will be tier 2. Still needs more tweaking. One more late game threat would be lovely, or counterspell if that ever makes it into modern.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Spells (25)
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
1 Dismember
2 Electrolyze
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Cryptic Command
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
1 Breeding Pool
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Steam Vents
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
7 Island
2 Dispel
1 Pyroclasm
1 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Negate
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
My favorite win occurred with this play: Opponent is playing tokens in game 2 (I am up 1 game) and is at 3 life. The board is empty except for 4 anthems and I have an AV with 1 counter left. They pass with 2 cards in hand. AV grabs me Sarkhan, a serum and 2 other cards. I have 8 lands down. I cast serum to find another land and scry a snapcaster and a spell snare. Snap on top and snare on bottom. Cast Sarkhan, +1 to draw the snap, cast and target the bolt in my yard and cast it for the win. I had to change my pants after that play.
Anyway, I think this deck has play and can morph into other variants including combo. I'll report any other success I have.
I used to use him in Tarmotwin and he did win a few games, but I am not sure the +1 is where we want to be. I am debating mainboarding 1-2 Keranos. This decks wants to go long and draw cards. The problem I have been having with it is it may go long, but it can't close out the game well. Keranos will help with that I believe, but I still think there needs to be another strong curve topper. Ætherling pops into mind, since we run so many blue sources.
It is also decent control abzan combo, you can break up the combo a bit, not perfectly.
Depends on the meta. In a creature based meta they are friggin amazing. They single handedly beat zoo, infect, affinity, make life real hard on BGx strats and are just spicy tech most people don't see coming game 1. That being said they are dead vs ad nausem, storm, most control builds as well. But they do let you steal man lands. I would keep them in for now.
The potential hate would really be cards like Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus as RUG doesn't have many exile or graveyard hate effects. I guess Grafdigger's Cage could also work well, but it kind of hurts our snaps and GDD.
Redirect just seems better since we play 10 blue sources and 9 fetches, at least 8 of which get blue. Swerve is harder with R which we only have 3-5 sources for.
I just started a league with my above list. I may have to pick up some TITIs to test.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Spells (24)
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Flame Slash
2 Spell Snare
3 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Electrolyze
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Cryptic Command
1 Breeding Pool
1 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
2 Steam Vents
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
7 Island
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Dispel
1 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
1 Thragtusk
1 Krosan Grip
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Blood Moon
1 Counterflux
1 Negate
Ended up going 3-1 and taking second (also $40 which was nice). I beat WR Kiki-resto-sin prodder 2-1, lost to Cruel control 0-2, beat Kiki Chord 2-1 and beat UG infect 2-0.
I wish I could give a detailed report but I am exhausted and I don't fully remember how things played out. I will say that AV felt great, drawing 4 cards at the start of your turn felt broken. Out of the 11 games I played, I got to live the dream and Goblin Dark-Dwellers into Ancestral Vision 3 times. This deck had a really interesting feel. A lot of the times I felt like I was playing control, but at the same time dropping goyfs, with a touch of tempo. I ended a lot of games with bolt-snap-bolt, and one with GDD targeting an electrolyze.
The one matchup where I felt I really struggled was against Grixis cruel control. He had all the answers for the creature beat down and even though I was drawing tons of cards I could never get going. Huntmaster was nice, but it never really helped, just immediately ate removal. Maybe Arlinn Kord could be good. Anyway, very happy with the deck, small tweaks needed but the core felt really good.
So other cards I want to consider are Harvest Pyre and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. Harvest Pyre seems to be wanting to solve the issues that Twin used to have, and Teferi is just great against control which I felt that this deck struggled against.
This is indeed how it works. However, it cannot trigger on cast effects, since when it was cast it was a Phyrexian Metamorph, but it enters the battlefield as wha ever it copied.