Lantern, Great job on the flow chart! This is exactly what every new player for this deck needs. This deck isn't just a play everything and swing away type of deck, it has thought to it. Many don't see that and always think we are dumb players who enjoy turning our cards sideways! This deck needs strategy and thought before playing and the flow chart shines on that idea!
BTW, the decks aren't showing!!! Could you post them up!
OHHHH I love ragey players! Please post the screenshot haha!
As for the decks, I agree on that Lantern. I've been putting the decks in tappedout and testing out hands/plays against myself. The one thing I noticed is that on the Gruul version, it is so fast that if you are stalled to turn 4, the game is lost... I don't like that a lot. I did enjoy the one you made, it is consistent. I have had some mana problems, but that is just unlucky on my part.
if you get stalled using Fast Zoo until turn 4, you should have mulligan'ed. The edge that Fast Zoo has over other decks is that the threats come very very fast, and pyroclasm cannot kill most of them. I think these kind of lists will be even better now that BB is a thing. all fae cannot trade with it well unless they decide to not block until a scion hits the board. Fast Zoo is very well positioned.
True, but not every hand will allow you to swing for game by turn 3. There is always that chance for the deck to run out of steam too quickly.
OHHHH I love ragey players! Please post the screenshot haha!
As for the decks, I agree on that Lantern. I've been putting the decks in tappedout and testing out hands/plays against myself. The one thing I noticed is that on the Gruul version, it is so fast that if you are stalled to turn 4, the game is lost... I don't like that a lot. I did enjoy the one you made, it is consistent. I have had some mana problems, but that is just unlucky on my part.
Have to agree.... Very logical. Also like the way the basics are counted.
I'm using atm
4 Natactl
4 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
10 first drop's that i think is enough to start pressuring them into Goyf\Ooze\Voice\Boar, following with a Smiter and pumping with Ghor Clan...
So i'm using a more stable board version of the deck...
Can the Experiment One shine here in any way?
In my opinion E1 would get more value than playing with Boar at this point. Everything else is solid choices, but if you are not running BTE then I would stay away from Boar.
I'm testing a version very close to the first one, playing 4x vexing devil and a couple of VoR in the pillar spots (I'm still not sure of it...) Don't you think that the basic plain hurts you more than helps? Many times two lands is all you'll have...
I was also thinking about the inclusion of a couple smiters, but the 3 cmc stops me a lot...
Thanks!
It is all about how you want your curve to be set up and how you want to play out. Are you looking to play the all out Hyper Aggro versioned with a VERY LOW CMC and try to win on turn 3? or are you looking to play a more mid-rangey aggro deck which wins by turn 6-7 and maybe 5? The idea on what you are trying to run will determine what is a good fit to play. Smiter is more meant for a heavy beater and fits the mid-rangey deck, not the hyper aggro one. Both have it's pros and cons as well.
I like it a lot Lantern, think that is what I am going to run for a little while! I probobly will dedicate the 4 extra slots to Rampagers as I know my meta is a ton of control/mid-range.
So a more traditional Gruul Speed version w/ White Splash. Any idea on a solid Naya version with quick aggro speed and a slightly decent Mid-game?! I want to incorperate KOTR into a small creature build.
I did like the build on the previous page with Voice and KoTR, I'm curious though on the 3 Domri Raids. I probobly would take one at and add in a Helix personally.
Also, what is people's thought on Fleecemane Lion now?! With a solid 3/3 for 2 drop, it could potentially be a killer.
I just recently got everything I need for running Gruul Zoo (except for Goyfs and Fetches). On a hunch, I picked up a playset of Wild Nacatl. With its unbanning, I am debating whether to run the straight Gruul version, or splash some white to take advantage of Nacatl. This is what I would run straight as straight Gruul.
Now, if I decided to run white, what would be the best things to run? I'm thinking Nacatl, Lightning Helix, Loxodon Smiter, in addition to a major rework of the manabase. Something like this:
Now granted, this is an extremely rough draft, but any help would be greatly appreciate!!
A big question here is Burning Tree's consistency with the White Splash. Now that Nactal is unbanned, it tells us that white splash will become into Naya. Really don't see BTE staying in a Naya versioned deck at the moment. Also, I am interested in the use of Guide here. With the deck completely changing, I am curious to see if Haste will be a factor or is it more of placing tiny bombs on the field and going for the all in later.
Would we be able to fit Knight of the Reliquary in here? I would think that with the amount of fetches we need to sustain the 3 color mana-base comfortably that it'd be a pretty good card.
I believe it is an option we have if playing naya. I personally am waiting to see what everyone brews up and the pros and cons before making a final decision on what my deck will consist of. All I know as of now that the basic staples (Nactal x4, Kird Ape x4, Paths x?, Bolt x4, etc) will be involved.
I feel that BTE is not going to fit the naya version and personally Loam Lion is a better suit. I as well want to find out how good Knight can be in this deck. A lot of changes probobly will occur to be honest.
I see, well you summed up what I was about to say. In general the deck is a mind game and one shouldn't under estimate the power small creatures pump and burn can have on a match.
Um, where did I ever mention Rampager being used as a creature? In fact, the whole context of my post is re: Bolt & 2 for 1, which if I was talking about Rampager as a creature is irrelevant because he's X/4 and can't be 2 for 1'ed as a creature.
If you never had a problem with Rampager getting 2 for 1'ed by a bolt or path then the people you're playing with are terrible. Either they don't know priority or combat steps. As a control player I'm fine with either 2 for 1'ing you before combat damage, or taking the 2 or 3 from Ape/Nacatl and bolting it second main phase. It just seems to me to not have as much utility as other spells that would be better (e.g. more 1 and 2 drops for consistency, and more burn/path for reach and dealing with blockers).
I don't see where you are argument is leading towards. Rampager is used in response to bolt or a double block. Even with bolt used most likely your trample damage is going to go through. Occasionally it may be 2 for 1d but every card in magic has that opportunity but the plus side of Rampager far exceeds the negatives and that is why almost everyone who is a staple zoo player would tell you Rampager is a must need in lists.
BTW, the decks aren't showing!!! Could you post them up!
True, but not every hand will allow you to swing for game by turn 3. There is always that chance for the deck to run out of steam too quickly.
As for the decks, I agree on that Lantern. I've been putting the decks in tappedout and testing out hands/plays against myself. The one thing I noticed is that on the Gruul version, it is so fast that if you are stalled to turn 4, the game is lost... I don't like that a lot. I did enjoy the one you made, it is consistent. I have had some mana problems, but that is just unlucky on my part.
In my opinion E1 would get more value than playing with Boar at this point. Everything else is solid choices, but if you are not running BTE then I would stay away from Boar.
It is all about how you want your curve to be set up and how you want to play out. Are you looking to play the all out Hyper Aggro versioned with a VERY LOW CMC and try to win on turn 3? or are you looking to play a more mid-rangey aggro deck which wins by turn 6-7 and maybe 5? The idea on what you are trying to run will determine what is a good fit to play. Smiter is more meant for a heavy beater and fits the mid-rangey deck, not the hyper aggro one. Both have it's pros and cons as well.
I did like the build on the previous page with Voice and KoTR, I'm curious though on the 3 Domri Raids. I probobly would take one at and add in a Helix personally.
Also, what is people's thought on Fleecemane Lion now?! With a solid 3/3 for 2 drop, it could potentially be a killer.
A big question here is Burning Tree's consistency with the White Splash. Now that Nactal is unbanned, it tells us that white splash will become into Naya. Really don't see BTE staying in a Naya versioned deck at the moment. Also, I am interested in the use of Guide here. With the deck completely changing, I am curious to see if Haste will be a factor or is it more of placing tiny bombs on the field and going for the all in later.
I believe it is an option we have if playing naya. I personally am waiting to see what everyone brews up and the pros and cons before making a final decision on what my deck will consist of. All I know as of now that the basic staples (Nactal x4, Kird Ape x4, Paths x?, Bolt x4, etc) will be involved.
I like this, but 3 Domri is kind of too much in my opinion...
He is good if you plan on running the Gruul version. Also I would wait on a decision to see how the meta turns out with the new list
I don't see where you are argument is leading towards. Rampager is used in response to bolt or a double block. Even with bolt used most likely your trample damage is going to go through. Occasionally it may be 2 for 1d but every card in magic has that opportunity but the plus side of Rampager far exceeds the negatives and that is why almost everyone who is a staple zoo player would tell you Rampager is a must need in lists.