Well, after being spoiled it seems it's a sorcery and costs 1BB. It may seem to be good, but I wouldn't really see this be played so often given it is only a sorcery speed spell.
Well the new sweeper is rumored to be a strictly better Infest, you can see it's artwork in the Trailer at 0:31 and there is the Fated cycle which are all instants it seems.
There was a rumor flying about it being this
Fated Demise BBB
Instant (Rare)
All creatures get -3/-3 until the end of the turn. If it's your turn, scry 2.
That was unconfirmed of course so it just might give -2/-2 instead but that is still solid in my opinion. Aggro decks would have a hard time beating this card since regeneration(Golgari Charm) and indestructibility(Boros Charm, Rootborn Defenses) wont be any help against it.
That card coupled with Phenax is what im most excited about in Born of the Gods.
Very true, Pheonix sounds pretty awesome and I might be interested in that Instant which would cripple Mono-Blue.
Honestly I think the biggest splash will come when we see the new black sweeper that has been rumored forever. I think the future of this format's control decks (and MBD to some extent) hinges on that card.
Agreed; however, I believe it wouldn't have any effect on Mono Blue because of the style of play being aggressive.
Nothing so far seems like will help or hinder the big devotion decks. But most of what has been spoiled has been limited fodder for the most part, so there's lots of room for impact cards.
I agree so far, only time will tell. I am just curious if the deck will completely evolve or just slightly with maybe 5-6 cards being replaced with something new. I've heard that Mono-Black might be hit heavily and a new R/B version be developed including the new god and the new BOB.
I agree, I feel that Boar is just a tad bit better than Fanatic at this point. Having a 3/3 Boar on turn 2 is much better than a 4/4 on turn 3 right now. Usually I want to be leading up at this point and on turn 3 or 4 I'd rather save the beater and play a goyf and possibly Rancor/Burn/Dismember
I myself hate playing Control/Mid-Range decks and prefer the Aggro style where going all or nothing takes effect. Goyf I still believe will be the preferred choice than Scavenging Ooze but I hope to try Ooze out in the deck and see how it runs.
I enjoy Vexing Devil because it usually evolves Experiment One.
As everyone has said this, Vexing Devil has the advantage of evolving E1 from normally a 2/2 or 3/3 to a possible 3/3 or 4/4. It's main use isn't for early play right away (You don't want to be playing him turn 1 or even turn 2 unless you can get other creatures out before like Turn 2 Burning tree into E1 & Devil), but it is really a burn spell on your opponent. Too me using Vexing Devil is great! Has many advantages and normally if your opponent has to let Devil go and not take the burn either he has removal or normally by that time he has pretty much lost the match.
But still! Always Main Deck/SB a total of 4 Pillars in my opinion for the matchups with Voice etc...
WhyFly your right about the vexings. i just noticed like i think alot of ppl have that dismember isnt as good as it has been and seems to be taken out alot after game one. i was looking for something to replace it in a standard burn list. i already run 4 bolt and 3 pillars so i one have
room for 2 to 3 spells. so far i liked the growths as more of a save my creature effect not really a true pump spell. didnt know what else to try some ppl saying vine and some collosal might. not sure if that or more burn is the answer.
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From what I am noticing is if you are looking for more burn try Molten Rain which help but a solid build around burn is splashing white for Lightning Helix or Charm or Path. Dismembers have been the easy swap but it's still very good
Whyfly I would never play less than 4 Ghor-Clan Rampager, that card is an MVP. I would have lost more than half of my games without him, I've never been sad to draw a rampager, he's just that good.
I understand that, Rampager is incredible and I definitely see that, but the removal like Path could potentially be a necessary add in the deck... Just my opinion though
i have been looking and have yet to see abpump version of the deck that runs vexing. has there been one of the traditional builds that just ops for pump over dimembers? like the 32 creatures 4 bolt 3 growth 2 pillar 19 land? or does that dilute the 2 strats to much?
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Well that is because the Pump version is a bit different then the burn/removal version. Vexing Devil isn't here really for a creature purpose it is more of a burn spell in a creature spot... Pump version really focuses on using 1 to 2 drop creatures who can get large quite easily (E1, Kird Ape, Geist, Etc) and swinging in for a bunch using spells to pump them and even add trample along the way.
Personally, I do not like the pump version since it strays away from the true Zoo which consisted of Burn/Creatures/Land than Pump.
Still, at least right now I'm liking the Gruul version a bit more.
What I am thinking you should do in addition to the 30 creatures is maybe -2 Gor-Clan and splash in 2 Boros Charms or 2 Paths. Also the Land I feel could be a problem so maybe instead of a plains replace with a Sacred Foundry
So a something like this:
-2 Rampager
-1 Plains
+1 Sacred Foundry
+2 Path/Boros Charm (Really leaning towards Path for Removal purposes and effectiveness versus other decks)
I still think having white is better. the turn faster will get you better results sometimes, as in out racing a combo, but I still think this blue dominated format (read, more wipes) its better to have creature quality (Loam) burn (Reach) and over extention protection (Vines or boros). But I think you wont see Naya popularized til next season when someone takes it to a big touriment. Also you probably wont see a not so much "Hyper speed" gruul zoo until either nacatl is unbanned (forcing white) or tempo comes back to power.
Oh I don't doubt that some of the white removal is much more superior then the available removal that the traditional R/G build has, but I just feel that consistency is what hurts when splashing with White. Likewise, I won't stray away at all from trying out white because the advantages are very high with the removal package and burn it provides. In the long run Zoo will still be a top tier deck but I definitely agree that the "amazingness" the deck use to have will not come back until either the format tempo changes or nacatl is unbanned (Which do you believe has a chance or no?)
I like the idea of the white splash but is just straight RG the way to go?
Also, I'm surprised to see no Torpor Orb in his list. It seems like a regular in our sideboards.
Agreed on the Orb, but from what I have heard some people are just not able to use it at all from their sideboard but surprised not in there as well!
As for the idea, RG splash White is incredible if you can get it to be as consistent as the normal Gruul Zoo build; however, the chances of that happening is very minimal. Thus RG build is still the more powerful and consistent build out there.
This though is not changing my mind of AT LEAST trying to splash for white by maybe replacing 1 stomping ground and 1 of each basic land (I run 2 Forests and 1 Mountain) for 2 Sacred Foundries and a Temple Garden and splash in a few Path of Exiles and Lightning Helixes.
Very true, Pheonix sounds pretty awesome and I might be interested in that Instant which would cripple Mono-Blue.
Agreed; however, I believe it wouldn't have any effect on Mono Blue because of the style of play being aggressive.
I agree so far, only time will tell. I am just curious if the deck will completely evolve or just slightly with maybe 5-6 cards being replaced with something new. I've heard that Mono-Black might be hit heavily and a new R/B version be developed including the new god and the new BOB.
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
3 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pillar of Flame
Lands: 19
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Stomping Ground
My Idea of splashing white would be this:
-4 Copperline Gorge
+1 Plains
+1 Temple Garden
+2 Sacred Foundry
---------------------------
-4 Vexing Devil
-1 Goblin Guide
-3 Dismember
+4 Loam Lion
+2 Lightning Helix
+2 Path to Exile
As everyone has said this, Vexing Devil has the advantage of evolving E1 from normally a 2/2 or 3/3 to a possible 3/3 or 4/4. It's main use isn't for early play right away (You don't want to be playing him turn 1 or even turn 2 unless you can get other creatures out before like Turn 2 Burning tree into E1 & Devil), but it is really a burn spell on your opponent. Too me using Vexing Devil is great! Has many advantages and normally if your opponent has to let Devil go and not take the burn either he has removal or normally by that time he has pretty much lost the match.
But still! Always Main Deck/SB a total of 4 Pillars in my opinion for the matchups with Voice etc...
From what I am noticing is if you are looking for more burn try Molten Rain which help but a solid build around burn is splashing white for Lightning Helix or Charm or Path. Dismembers have been the easy swap but it's still very good
I understand that, Rampager is incredible and I definitely see that, but the removal like Path could potentially be a necessary add in the deck... Just my opinion though
Well that is because the Pump version is a bit different then the burn/removal version. Vexing Devil isn't here really for a creature purpose it is more of a burn spell in a creature spot... Pump version really focuses on using 1 to 2 drop creatures who can get large quite easily (E1, Kird Ape, Geist, Etc) and swinging in for a bunch using spells to pump them and even add trample along the way.
Personally, I do not like the pump version since it strays away from the true Zoo which consisted of Burn/Creatures/Land than Pump.
What I am thinking you should do in addition to the 30 creatures is maybe -2 Gor-Clan and splash in 2 Boros Charms or 2 Paths. Also the Land I feel could be a problem so maybe instead of a plains replace with a Sacred Foundry
So a something like this:
-2 Rampager
-1 Plains
+1 Sacred Foundry
+2 Path/Boros Charm (Really leaning towards Path for Removal purposes and effectiveness versus other decks)
What do you think of that?
Oh I don't doubt that some of the white removal is much more superior then the available removal that the traditional R/G build has, but I just feel that consistency is what hurts when splashing with White. Likewise, I won't stray away at all from trying out white because the advantages are very high with the removal package and burn it provides. In the long run Zoo will still be a top tier deck but I definitely agree that the "amazingness" the deck use to have will not come back until either the format tempo changes or nacatl is unbanned (Which do you believe has a chance or no?)
Agreed on the Orb, but from what I have heard some people are just not able to use it at all from their sideboard but surprised not in there as well!
As for the idea, RG splash White is incredible if you can get it to be as consistent as the normal Gruul Zoo build; however, the chances of that happening is very minimal. Thus RG build is still the more powerful and consistent build out there.
This though is not changing my mind of AT LEAST trying to splash for white by maybe replacing 1 stomping ground and 1 of each basic land (I run 2 Forests and 1 Mountain) for 2 Sacred Foundries and a Temple Garden and splash in a few Path of Exiles and Lightning Helixes.