Um, the discord is probably where you want to be MagicMasterJr - this forum is basically dead. If you can't get into discord for whatever reason, then just follow the top8s etc. The deck is pretty good right now though, so thats positive. Once upon a Time really is a good magic card!
@D90Dennis14 - thanks for those, i'll take a peak when i get chance! I always see you in the same forums as me so im guessing the decks will be fun too
Thanks killer-eye. What I tend to do is wrap up the decks at the end and suggest cuts if you need to make it more budget, specifically with paper in mind. This request has come up a couple of times already though, so I may make seperate paper and MTGO videos too.
The site is currently down whilst i do some work on it, but my youtube has the videos! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9V5f68FPNRH54oHf4KH7Q
Guys I just recorded 5 matches with a budget list for youtube. Check out my website and follow the links to find stuff!! Hopefully will see some of you on a stream sometime https://budgetmodernmagic.com/
@TheCelticWombat - the discord for Niv is pretty active, and I can say a lot of these ideas have been testing already, which is great. I've seen as mayn as 3 g-wish being run.
Lavinia, Ego, Deafening Clarion, Kambal, Gust and Verdict are all brilliant bullets. I'd run them even if I didn't run G-wish (which i currently dont).
I used to run Cindervines for small upside vs UW and storm, and as a way to beat blood moon off a single forest. However, since moving to the snow manabase, it's a lot less necessary and i've cut it. It's a close 1 though.
New Ashiok is sweet, but i've found the 3-mana walker a little slow to tutor up vs hogaak (going T2 Wish T3 Ashiok is just not quick enough, especially on the draw). It has uses elsewhere and is probably better when sided in.
Wheel of Sun & Moon is just a worse ashiok, dont run it!
Sigarda has seen a little play from some guys, though i think you're better with just another Niv at that point.
Dreadbore is generally better than Angrath's Rampage. You want to tag cards like Thought Knot that Helix misses, and Angrath can sometimes run into matter reshapers etc poorly.
Sounds like you have a good plan. Don't worry about running the odd "non-wish" target though. I'm on 4 Leyline of the Void and they're a necesary evil this week!
Daviusminimus here (MTGO Streamer) bringing some Budget Modern MTG to you all. I know some of this content already exists, but here's why mine is different!
It's designed specifically for MTGO. Many budget lists focus on the paper prices, and as such, come up wayyyy cheaper on MTGO. My content focuses on <100 Tix, since this is the cheapest subscription on Manatraders. This lets players play the BEST version they can for just $9.99 a month.
There's just more of it. My aim is to do a minimum of 2 decks a week, more if there's enough demand.
There's no sifting through other content to find it! My site will ONLY have Budget Modern. It's dedicated to it.
You can request cards and/or decks be worked on, which gives some more eyes to the deck you're brewing. There is a discord being created so the discussions can happen quickly.
You won't be stuck seeing "just combo decks". Budget decks lend themselves to combos, because interactive cards tend to cost more, and in addition to that, often require several colours (and manabases cost money). We won't worry about that though, we're going to make sure there's something for every type of player.
Although it's early days, I already have twitch, youtube and a google-sheets (with decklists) set up. My website is a work-in-progress, but all the information you need is here:
At the end of the day, the aim of this site is to give people more access to sweet decks. Whether you want something to break up the grind, something to learn the format with on the cheap, new to MTGO or just like seeing MTG content, there's something here for everyone.
So check out the website, come say hi on twitch or find me on discord / MTGO (username daviusminimus).
@D90 - Tolsimir is the only 1 that can make 2 bodies AND remove 1 from the opponent, making it almost 3 bodies + 3 life. It's very good at stabilising. There's also a small synergy with Huntmaster, though i haven't had that come up yet. Tolsimir is a higher-costed huntmaster though, which is why i think it belongs in the board. It's great to BTL for it when you're behind, but you won't always want that effect (basically just vs agro).
The TLDR is that Tolsimir is the best at stabilising out of all the options. If you want something more agressive, Siege Rhino fits better but isn't a Niv hit. If you want a Niv hit that's agressive, Obzedat is good there but it is the hardest to actually cast out of all of them. If you are heavier on creatures I imagine Trostani's anthem being ok, but outside of that, I don't see it.
On the manabase, I hate 10 basics, but I think 5-6 is passable, and with fetchlands involved, you can easily get to around 14 lands that "turn on" astrolabe. Astrolabe is a great payoff, it does work extremely well. But you can run both it and pillar, which may well be the sweet spot. I've attached my current list for reference!
@D90Dennis14 - this was discussed on discord (jiggywiggy is very active there). The Arcum's are amazing, as is the vista. The Ice-fang I felt was average. Nissa has since been dropped. Wreen & 6 is a bomb, and everyone who tests it is very high on it
The more debateable card is Tolsimir. What Tolsimir does is help you "get back" in a game. So if you have 5 mana & bring to light, sometimes you need Tolsimir to stabilise, since Niv will just be 1 blocker. In that spot, it's your only real way back into the game. once back in the game, it can even sometimes start swinging and win with it. I've found it worth a SB slot for sure,
@drew02k - shame i missed your stream, I follow Momsbasement! I can't find a VOD of it, do you have it on youtube or recorded anywhere?
@D90Dennis - I found something similar with regards to 7x 5-drops, so I cut a bring to light. I originally cut a Niv, but there's several problems with this:
1. Bring to Light is hit by cards like Kitesail Freebooter, Thalia, Stubborn Denial, Dovins Veto etc, that Niv isn't.
2. Niv No.1 can easily be pathed, as can No.2...
Overall, it's not a massive difference, but you don't often BTL for "not Niv", so just having a 3/3 split has worked well for me.
For what it's worth, I run a singleton Glittering Wish and the 4th BTL in the board. This way, I still have a virtual 7x closers, but I also have a card that's useful early. I tend to board out G-wish in most match-ups (nearly all of them, but occasionally I'll put a Niv to the side to play around surgical a touch), but it can acts as a land drop (safewright quest) a threat (BTL) or just a copy of a good card for the MU. I've liked the change. I pushed it up to 2x G-wish and it wasn't nice though, so I'm happy with 1.
I personally liked Tidehollow but only in creature-heavier builds. There's lists running around with 4 BBE and maybe only 4-5 total 5-drops, and those lend themselves to other creatures a bit better.
For the record, this is the list I registered yesterday for a run-out. https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/-RTSRU6aY
The first Mox Tantalite seems promosing so far. I've been comparing it to the 2nd copy of City of Brass/Mana Confluence, and it sorta lines up nicely. You don't usually want to play City of Brass in the early turns because the damage adds up quickly, but it's fine on turns 4+. However, once you get to turns 9-10+, then you don't want a mana source at all, and you'd likely sandbag them to loot away with izzet charm etc. So, the fact that you don't want city of brass OR mox on turns 9+, you can just compare them for the early turns. In the early turns, you don't want City of Brass on T1, but you may want it on turn 4-6ish to cast BTL/Niv. If you had your Mox in your opener, it will be better than City of Brass the majority of the time, because it's a pain-free way to fix, and it also ramps from 4-5. City of Brass however, will be better when naturally drawn on Turns 2-6ish. When you consider you draw 7 in your opener, and maybe have a 5-6 turn window for City to be better, there's not too much in it. There's some other slightly awkward points though, mainly Baby Teferi at the other side of the table.
So far, I've had it in my opener a decent amount and it's done work. Ramping to a turn 4 Niv is great, and multiple City of Brass effects are completely unmanageable. I like the change so far.
I also ran a split of Thought Erasure + Castigate to begin with, but the Kaya's Guile fill the BW slot now, and thought erasure is just the better card 90% of the time.
Everything else is pretty self explanitory, but just ask away!
@Lectrys and the rest of the crew:
I've played a good chunk with this deck, and I always watch streamers with it when it comes on (hoogland being the most regular ascendancy player)... the key to the combo turn is "figuring out what you need", either mana or cards. Adding Hydroform as a manadork wish-target makes so much sense to me! Lectrys, I honestly think its genius! I also wonder how no-one went down that train of thought before, but it is just 1 of those sort of hidden genius mode!
Anyway, the key really is "do I need mana or do i need cards". If you have wish in your hand, you now have the option of both. If you don't need mana, don't grab Hydroform, it's simple really. It'll come up often enough that it'll be worth the slot, almost guarentee it.
On the Echo of Eons point, it's something where my gut instinct was "I probably only want 1". Your testing suggests you only ever want to cast it once too, but want to find it more often. My gut is still that 4 is too many, because more than half the deck loots, and a massive chunk of it does it for a net-zero mana. Although finding it early is nice, it's not critical, and it's a pretty terrible card when you don't have all the pieces to combo (unlike a serum visions or whatever). However, card looks and sounds great!
@Lectrys, can you share your latest list before we go into archive!!!
@D90Dennis14 - Ok so there's a few things here...
First, I absolutely hate Assassin's Trophy on Turn 2. It's terrbile, but sometimes you have to deal with a bob etc. With decay in the deck, it gives you something that's better in the early turns against everyone except tron. It's worse late obviously. The uncounterable comes up very rarely, but helps vs Deaths Shadow and Chalice of the Void on 2 (which is normally a bit of a beating).
Terminate was added because I was struggling against anything big, like Thought Knot / Reality Smasher / Gurmag / Hollow One. It could be that Trophy is better, but I already have 4x GB cards and only 2x BR. It's been good so far.
I wouldn't say any of them are absolutely critical, you can change up the removal as you wish really, I just hate ramping opps!
Maelstrom Pulse vs Detention Sphere is close actually. Both are in colours that already have some good spells, so you could swap 1 for the other quite easily. Although Pulse is a Bring to Light target (which does come up occasionally, usually vs lingering souls), D-sphere pseudo exiles the card, so is much better against die-trigger stuff like Wurmcoil etc, or against Prized Amalgams that otherwise would bounce back. I have removal that can be Bring-to-Lighted up, so I think having the D-sphere for the "exile" clause is worthwhile, but again, it's a tiny difference overall.
Honestly, Deputy of Detention, Geist of Saint Traft, Tidehollow Sculler etc takes you down a slightly different route. I tried it, and just ended up loosing tixs left right and centre. The issue was that there's not a great colour pie for the creatures, but you need a mass of them to stretch out removal, to make tidehollow / spell queller and co worthwhile. If you don't have cards to back up the sculler, then it'll eat the next removal spell the opp has and you're back to the start. I didn't love my creature-based build, and i'm pretty happy with BBE and Niv as my main threats, with BOP as a somewhat high-risk high-reward card.
Azorious Charm again needs a few more creatures to support it imo. It'll always be ok but never stunning.
I prefer the builds that have a tonne of interaction and just use Niv to reload. They don't rely on ramp, and don't require you to ever really clock the opponent. Once you run the op low on cards and land Niv, it's kinda irrelevant how you finish them off. It may be BBE, burn spells, another Niv, the original Niv etc. The creature-light version is just trying to play removal until you can reload, and it's great.
I'm really considering Abrupt Decay vs Terminate vs 3rd Trophy for main/side, and also Sin Collector vs Castigate. Sin Collector has been pretty mediocre, and Castigate is more flexible and cheaper to cast.
The Glittering Wish in here has come in as a potential solution to a problem I've been having. At 22 lands, 4 BOP and 3 Quest (29 mana sources) I was mulliganing a lot of 2-landers and then getting stung and forced down to 5. When on 23 lands, I would flood out too much in the mid-late game having kept a reasonable 4-5 land (/mana source) opener.
Glittering Wish is clunky, and although our SB is already set up for the card, the deck doesn't like playing from behind. You want to be stable, then draw a 5-drop. Since G-wish is clunky, I've dropped a Bring to Light for it. However, that Bring to Light has gone to the SB.
The theory here is that I still have access to 7 Nivs (3 BTL, 3 Niv, and a Wish for BTL). What I'm actually saying here is "when I draw glittering wish, is the access to the sideboard going to be better than the times i can't afford to Wish+Bring to Light". There's clearly going to be times where I want Niv but only have 5 mana, and this will sting. There will also be times where I get to grab Fracturing Gust and win the game. They'll be other times where I can Wish on T2 and get Kambal on T3 etc.
Back to the mana problem. I now have the 23rd land again, 4 BOP but just 2 Quest. So I'm on 29 mana sources. So in theory, i'm still risking having the "mulliganing a 2-lander" issue. However, the 3rd quest has gone to the SB, making G-wish a sort-of "half mana". G-wish will give me my 3rd land drop when I'm lacking it, and will be a threat when I'm not.
That's the theory anyway. It's very early on, and i've seen wish just twice. First time it got Inquisition-ed, but that was better than them taking my Lightning Helix and leaving a Bring to Light to rot in my hand (I was stuck on mana). The 2nd time, I sandbagged it for a turn, to see whether I'd draw my 4th land or a threat, and then fired it off to complete my hand. It felt good both times.
I've not overcommitted to G-wish. I've lost a couple of SB slots (I had to add BTL and Safewright Quest). However, I've found space for MD Knight of Autumn + Abrupt Decay, so I have access to a very similar amount of tools as before. They're just in different places.
Would love to hear feedback on this approach. Sorry for wall of text!
@D90Denis...
Nice list of cards, I've actually tested most of these, so i'll give some feedback: Thought Erasure - it's 1 of the best things you can do on Turn 2 imo, since it helps you find land / threat, whichever you're missing. It's also pretty terrible in the late game, and barely a Niv hit. I run 1 and like it. tidehollow sculler - I ran this for a while, and it's pretty medium imo. It just eats removal, which is kinda fine, but just not great. Good vs combo. If we had more creatures, i'd be more interested in it! Thief of Santity - it's a card that carries when you untap with it, but 3-mana die-to-bolt has always been a stretch, and when you don't have too many bolt targets already, I just struggled to do anything too exciting. It'd be at its best vs linear decks, but you often felt nervous tapping out for Thief against decks like tron/storm. Overall, it felt powerful but not often enough. I wouldn't recommend it unless you go down the route of 30+ creatures, and even then, not too many of em! Hostage Taker - it was just a little slow and a little unexciting. It doesn't line up well vs reflector mage out of humans, and it's too slow vs affinity / hardened scales etc. It's almost dead vs tron/ad nauseum/storm etc. Its a fine card, and perhaps is worth considering to fight decks like Eldrazi if they get popular (Since our removal is generally quite poor vs big critters), but overall it was underwhelming. Izzet Charm - The flexibility and the fact that it's live vs most decks and at most stages of the game make me really like Izzet Charm. Counterspell or Shock on Turn 2 is pretty strong, and sandbagging a Bird or a Land makes it decent off the top. I wouldn't drop this, and would consider a 3rd. Whirler Virtuoso - Falls into a similar camp to Hostage Taker. I hoped it'd be similar to Pia & Kiran Nalaar, in that you get some air and value. But actually, when you're behind, it just buys you a turn and you die anyway, and when you're ahead, its not closing the game out quickly. When you go into topdeck mode, this isn't what you're looking for. Its just very very medium at best. Unmoored Ego - Honestly this card is pretty good. Against control, you can use it to try force through a key spell, by naming something like Cryptic Command and hoping for the best. When you do this, you'll either tag a key card, or just have full information. Both of those things are useful Game 1. Against Combo, it's obvious what to name, and often its correct to bring to light for this before a Niv.
What it really comes down to is - you'll want access to this in Game 1 often enough that you don't mind it being bad when you naturally draw it a % of the time. I don't want it vs Affinity, but I do want it vs Tron (naming a tron piece or Valakut is amazing). This card beats big mana and combo, and is passable vs control when naturally drawn, so i think it's worth the slot.
What I've not tested yet: Discovery//Dispersal - do like the look of this, but i'm tight on space. I may run it later on. Notion Rain - comparing this to Discovery, I think the life loss matters too much (as you said), and I was already worried about the tempo loss from a cantrip. It's a big fat no for me, won't test. Ral, Izzet Viceroy - not a bring to light target, and not as good as Bring to Light OR Niv. If you wanted more top-end, I think you'd run a 4th Niv or as you say, another Teferi. Keranos, God of Storms - was on my list to test in the SB, mainly vs Control. It takes over the game, and is a BTL target since it's classed as a creature in your deck. I think it has potential. ashiok, nightmare weaver - I havent tested it because i dont think we protect it well, and its not good at protecting itself, unlike Ajani, Nahiri and Teferi. electrolyze - this is a geniunely good magic card, but I'm not sure it compares well to something like K-command. We already have Izzet Charm and Lightning Helix for little critters, so I'm not sure it's even necessary. 1-of at the most, might be worth a look.
I think from what you've listed, I can see Keranos as a 1-of in the board, and Discovery//Dispersal has potential as perhaps a 1-of in the main.
I also think Kaya's Guile will be a 1-of in the main. I know it doesn't offer hand disruption, but you don't necessarily need that effect. There's a lot of flexibility in this list, and Kaya's adds to that, being relevant in a tonne of MUs.
Overall, the best thing to do is just to build a flexible maindeck with generically powerful cards. Anything there "because of the colour pie" should probably dissapear.
This is my current list: http://www.streamdecker.com/deck/-RTSRU6aY
I'm testing the Glittering Wish, Terminate and Sin Collector, but could see all 3 being cut.
The site is currently down whilst i do some work on it, but my youtube has the videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9V5f68FPNRH54oHf4KH7Q
https://budgetmodernmagic.com/
Lavinia, Ego, Deafening Clarion, Kambal, Gust and Verdict are all brilliant bullets. I'd run them even if I didn't run G-wish (which i currently dont).
I used to run Cindervines for small upside vs UW and storm, and as a way to beat blood moon off a single forest. However, since moving to the snow manabase, it's a lot less necessary and i've cut it. It's a close 1 though.
New Ashiok is sweet, but i've found the 3-mana walker a little slow to tutor up vs hogaak (going T2 Wish T3 Ashiok is just not quick enough, especially on the draw). It has uses elsewhere and is probably better when sided in.
Wheel of Sun & Moon is just a worse ashiok, dont run it!
Sigarda has seen a little play from some guys, though i think you're better with just another Niv at that point.
Dreadbore is generally better than Angrath's Rampage. You want to tag cards like Thought Knot that Helix misses, and Angrath can sometimes run into matter reshapers etc poorly.
Sounds like you have a good plan. Don't worry about running the odd "non-wish" target though. I'm on 4 Leyline of the Void and they're a necesary evil this week!
Daviusminimus here (MTGO Streamer) bringing some Budget Modern MTG to you all. I know some of this content already exists, but here's why mine is different!
It's designed specifically for MTGO. Many budget lists focus on the paper prices, and as such, come up wayyyy cheaper on MTGO. My content focuses on <100 Tix, since this is the cheapest subscription on Manatraders. This lets players play the BEST version they can for just $9.99 a month.
There's just more of it. My aim is to do a minimum of 2 decks a week, more if there's enough demand.
There's no sifting through other content to find it! My site will ONLY have Budget Modern. It's dedicated to it.
You can request cards and/or decks be worked on, which gives some more eyes to the deck you're brewing. There is a discord being created so the discussions can happen quickly.
You won't be stuck seeing "just combo decks". Budget decks lend themselves to combos, because interactive cards tend to cost more, and in addition to that, often require several colours (and manabases cost money). We won't worry about that though, we're going to make sure there's something for every type of player.
Although it's early days, I already have twitch, youtube and a google-sheets (with decklists) set up. My website is a work-in-progress, but all the information you need is here:
https://budgetmodernmagic.com/
At the end of the day, the aim of this site is to give people more access to sweet decks. Whether you want something to break up the grind, something to learn the format with on the cheap, new to MTGO or just like seeing MTG content, there's something here for everyone.
So check out the website, come say hi on twitch or find me on discord / MTGO (username daviusminimus).
See you on the other side!
Dave
The TLDR is that Tolsimir is the best at stabilising out of all the options. If you want something more agressive, Siege Rhino fits better but isn't a Niv hit. If you want a Niv hit that's agressive, Obzedat is good there but it is the hardest to actually cast out of all of them. If you are heavier on creatures I imagine Trostani's anthem being ok, but outside of that, I don't see it.
On the manabase, I hate 10 basics, but I think 5-6 is passable, and with fetchlands involved, you can easily get to around 14 lands that "turn on" astrolabe. Astrolabe is a great payoff, it does work extremely well. But you can run both it and pillar, which may well be the sweet spot. I've attached my current list for reference!
The more debateable card is Tolsimir. What Tolsimir does is help you "get back" in a game. So if you have 5 mana & bring to light, sometimes you need Tolsimir to stabilise, since Niv will just be 1 blocker. In that spot, it's your only real way back into the game. once back in the game, it can even sometimes start swinging and win with it. I've found it worth a SB slot for sure,
@D90Dennis - I found something similar with regards to 7x 5-drops, so I cut a bring to light. I originally cut a Niv, but there's several problems with this:
1. Bring to Light is hit by cards like Kitesail Freebooter, Thalia, Stubborn Denial, Dovins Veto etc, that Niv isn't.
2. Niv No.1 can easily be pathed, as can No.2...
Overall, it's not a massive difference, but you don't often BTL for "not Niv", so just having a 3/3 split has worked well for me.
For what it's worth, I run a singleton Glittering Wish and the 4th BTL in the board. This way, I still have a virtual 7x closers, but I also have a card that's useful early. I tend to board out G-wish in most match-ups (nearly all of them, but occasionally I'll put a Niv to the side to play around surgical a touch), but it can acts as a land drop (safewright quest) a threat (BTL) or just a copy of a good card for the MU. I've liked the change. I pushed it up to 2x G-wish and it wasn't nice though, so I'm happy with 1.
I personally liked Tidehollow but only in creature-heavier builds. There's lists running around with 4 BBE and maybe only 4-5 total 5-drops, and those lend themselves to other creatures a bit better.
For the record, this is the list I registered yesterday for a run-out.
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/-RTSRU6aY
The first Mox Tantalite seems promosing so far. I've been comparing it to the 2nd copy of City of Brass/Mana Confluence, and it sorta lines up nicely. You don't usually want to play City of Brass in the early turns because the damage adds up quickly, but it's fine on turns 4+. However, once you get to turns 9-10+, then you don't want a mana source at all, and you'd likely sandbag them to loot away with izzet charm etc. So, the fact that you don't want city of brass OR mox on turns 9+, you can just compare them for the early turns. In the early turns, you don't want City of Brass on T1, but you may want it on turn 4-6ish to cast BTL/Niv. If you had your Mox in your opener, it will be better than City of Brass the majority of the time, because it's a pain-free way to fix, and it also ramps from 4-5. City of Brass however, will be better when naturally drawn on Turns 2-6ish. When you consider you draw 7 in your opener, and maybe have a 5-6 turn window for City to be better, there's not too much in it. There's some other slightly awkward points though, mainly Baby Teferi at the other side of the table.
So far, I've had it in my opener a decent amount and it's done work. Ramping to a turn 4 Niv is great, and multiple City of Brass effects are completely unmanageable. I like the change so far.
I also ran a split of Thought Erasure + Castigate to begin with, but the Kaya's Guile fill the BW slot now, and thought erasure is just the better card 90% of the time.
Everything else is pretty self explanitory, but just ask away!
I've played a good chunk with this deck, and I always watch streamers with it when it comes on (hoogland being the most regular ascendancy player)... the key to the combo turn is "figuring out what you need", either mana or cards. Adding Hydroform as a manadork wish-target makes so much sense to me! Lectrys, I honestly think its genius! I also wonder how no-one went down that train of thought before, but it is just 1 of those sort of hidden genius mode!
Anyway, the key really is "do I need mana or do i need cards". If you have wish in your hand, you now have the option of both. If you don't need mana, don't grab Hydroform, it's simple really. It'll come up often enough that it'll be worth the slot, almost guarentee it.
On the Echo of Eons point, it's something where my gut instinct was "I probably only want 1". Your testing suggests you only ever want to cast it once too, but want to find it more often. My gut is still that 4 is too many, because more than half the deck loots, and a massive chunk of it does it for a net-zero mana. Although finding it early is nice, it's not critical, and it's a pretty terrible card when you don't have all the pieces to combo (unlike a serum visions or whatever). However, card looks and sounds great!
@Lectrys, can you share your latest list before we go into archive!!!
Come join the discussion
First, I absolutely hate Assassin's Trophy on Turn 2. It's terrbile, but sometimes you have to deal with a bob etc. With decay in the deck, it gives you something that's better in the early turns against everyone except tron. It's worse late obviously. The uncounterable comes up very rarely, but helps vs Deaths Shadow and Chalice of the Void on 2 (which is normally a bit of a beating).
Terminate was added because I was struggling against anything big, like Thought Knot / Reality Smasher / Gurmag / Hollow One. It could be that Trophy is better, but I already have 4x GB cards and only 2x BR. It's been good so far.
I wouldn't say any of them are absolutely critical, you can change up the removal as you wish really, I just hate ramping opps!
Maelstrom Pulse vs Detention Sphere is close actually. Both are in colours that already have some good spells, so you could swap 1 for the other quite easily. Although Pulse is a Bring to Light target (which does come up occasionally, usually vs lingering souls), D-sphere pseudo exiles the card, so is much better against die-trigger stuff like Wurmcoil etc, or against Prized Amalgams that otherwise would bounce back. I have removal that can be Bring-to-Lighted up, so I think having the D-sphere for the "exile" clause is worthwhile, but again, it's a tiny difference overall.
Honestly, Deputy of Detention, Geist of Saint Traft, Tidehollow Sculler etc takes you down a slightly different route. I tried it, and just ended up loosing tixs left right and centre. The issue was that there's not a great colour pie for the creatures, but you need a mass of them to stretch out removal, to make tidehollow / spell queller and co worthwhile. If you don't have cards to back up the sculler, then it'll eat the next removal spell the opp has and you're back to the start. I didn't love my creature-based build, and i'm pretty happy with BBE and Niv as my main threats, with BOP as a somewhat high-risk high-reward card.
Azorious Charm again needs a few more creatures to support it imo. It'll always be ok but never stunning.
I prefer the builds that have a tonne of interaction and just use Niv to reload. They don't rely on ramp, and don't require you to ever really clock the opponent. Once you run the op low on cards and land Niv, it's kinda irrelevant how you finish them off. It may be BBE, burn spells, another Niv, the original Niv etc. The creature-light version is just trying to play removal until you can reload, and it's great.
For the record, I just 5-0d. My list after the 5-0 will be this:
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/-RTSRU6aY
I'm really considering Abrupt Decay vs Terminate vs 3rd Trophy for main/side, and also Sin Collector vs Castigate. Sin Collector has been pretty mediocre, and Castigate is more flexible and cheaper to cast.
http://www.streamdecker.com/deck/-RTSRU6aY
The Glittering Wish in here has come in as a potential solution to a problem I've been having. At 22 lands, 4 BOP and 3 Quest (29 mana sources) I was mulliganing a lot of 2-landers and then getting stung and forced down to 5. When on 23 lands, I would flood out too much in the mid-late game having kept a reasonable 4-5 land (/mana source) opener.
Glittering Wish is clunky, and although our SB is already set up for the card, the deck doesn't like playing from behind. You want to be stable, then draw a 5-drop. Since G-wish is clunky, I've dropped a Bring to Light for it. However, that Bring to Light has gone to the SB.
The theory here is that I still have access to 7 Nivs (3 BTL, 3 Niv, and a Wish for BTL). What I'm actually saying here is "when I draw glittering wish, is the access to the sideboard going to be better than the times i can't afford to Wish+Bring to Light". There's clearly going to be times where I want Niv but only have 5 mana, and this will sting. There will also be times where I get to grab Fracturing Gust and win the game. They'll be other times where I can Wish on T2 and get Kambal on T3 etc.
Back to the mana problem. I now have the 23rd land again, 4 BOP but just 2 Quest. So I'm on 29 mana sources. So in theory, i'm still risking having the "mulliganing a 2-lander" issue. However, the 3rd quest has gone to the SB, making G-wish a sort-of "half mana". G-wish will give me my 3rd land drop when I'm lacking it, and will be a threat when I'm not.
That's the theory anyway. It's very early on, and i've seen wish just twice. First time it got Inquisition-ed, but that was better than them taking my Lightning Helix and leaving a Bring to Light to rot in my hand (I was stuck on mana). The 2nd time, I sandbagged it for a turn, to see whether I'd draw my 4th land or a threat, and then fired it off to complete my hand. It felt good both times.
I've not overcommitted to G-wish. I've lost a couple of SB slots (I had to add BTL and Safewright Quest). However, I've found space for MD Knight of Autumn + Abrupt Decay, so I have access to a very similar amount of tools as before. They're just in different places.
Would love to hear feedback on this approach. Sorry for wall of text!
Nice list of cards, I've actually tested most of these, so i'll give some feedback:
Thought Erasure - it's 1 of the best things you can do on Turn 2 imo, since it helps you find land / threat, whichever you're missing. It's also pretty terrible in the late game, and barely a Niv hit. I run 1 and like it.
tidehollow sculler - I ran this for a while, and it's pretty medium imo. It just eats removal, which is kinda fine, but just not great. Good vs combo. If we had more creatures, i'd be more interested in it!
Thief of Santity - it's a card that carries when you untap with it, but 3-mana die-to-bolt has always been a stretch, and when you don't have too many bolt targets already, I just struggled to do anything too exciting. It'd be at its best vs linear decks, but you often felt nervous tapping out for Thief against decks like tron/storm. Overall, it felt powerful but not often enough. I wouldn't recommend it unless you go down the route of 30+ creatures, and even then, not too many of em!
Hostage Taker - it was just a little slow and a little unexciting. It doesn't line up well vs reflector mage out of humans, and it's too slow vs affinity / hardened scales etc. It's almost dead vs tron/ad nauseum/storm etc. Its a fine card, and perhaps is worth considering to fight decks like Eldrazi if they get popular (Since our removal is generally quite poor vs big critters), but overall it was underwhelming.
Izzet Charm - The flexibility and the fact that it's live vs most decks and at most stages of the game make me really like Izzet Charm. Counterspell or Shock on Turn 2 is pretty strong, and sandbagging a Bird or a Land makes it decent off the top. I wouldn't drop this, and would consider a 3rd.
Whirler Virtuoso - Falls into a similar camp to Hostage Taker. I hoped it'd be similar to Pia & Kiran Nalaar, in that you get some air and value. But actually, when you're behind, it just buys you a turn and you die anyway, and when you're ahead, its not closing the game out quickly. When you go into topdeck mode, this isn't what you're looking for. Its just very very medium at best.
Unmoored Ego - Honestly this card is pretty good. Against control, you can use it to try force through a key spell, by naming something like Cryptic Command and hoping for the best. When you do this, you'll either tag a key card, or just have full information. Both of those things are useful Game 1. Against Combo, it's obvious what to name, and often its correct to bring to light for this before a Niv.
What it really comes down to is - you'll want access to this in Game 1 often enough that you don't mind it being bad when you naturally draw it a % of the time. I don't want it vs Affinity, but I do want it vs Tron (naming a tron piece or Valakut is amazing). This card beats big mana and combo, and is passable vs control when naturally drawn, so i think it's worth the slot.
What I've not tested yet:
Discovery//Dispersal - do like the look of this, but i'm tight on space. I may run it later on.
Notion Rain - comparing this to Discovery, I think the life loss matters too much (as you said), and I was already worried about the tempo loss from a cantrip. It's a big fat no for me, won't test.
Ral, Izzet Viceroy - not a bring to light target, and not as good as Bring to Light OR Niv. If you wanted more top-end, I think you'd run a 4th Niv or as you say, another Teferi.
Keranos, God of Storms - was on my list to test in the SB, mainly vs Control. It takes over the game, and is a BTL target since it's classed as a creature in your deck. I think it has potential.
ashiok, nightmare weaver - I havent tested it because i dont think we protect it well, and its not good at protecting itself, unlike Ajani, Nahiri and Teferi.
electrolyze - this is a geniunely good magic card, but I'm not sure it compares well to something like K-command. We already have Izzet Charm and Lightning Helix for little critters, so I'm not sure it's even necessary. 1-of at the most, might be worth a look.
I think from what you've listed, I can see Keranos as a 1-of in the board, and Discovery//Dispersal has potential as perhaps a 1-of in the main.
I also think Kaya's Guile will be a 1-of in the main. I know it doesn't offer hand disruption, but you don't necessarily need that effect. There's a lot of flexibility in this list, and Kaya's adds to that, being relevant in a tonne of MUs.
Overall, the best thing to do is just to build a flexible maindeck with generically powerful cards. Anything there "because of the colour pie" should probably dissapear.
This is my current list:
http://www.streamdecker.com/deck/-RTSRU6aY
I'm testing the Glittering Wish, Terminate and Sin Collector, but could see all 3 being cut.