MTG Salvation

Seems fine. It's a little better than the scry rule for making sure everyone is in the game.

They don't start out empty

Quote from Onering »

People need to stop acting like painter/grindstone being in the format changes anything outside of perhaps cEDH. The combo existed already with RiP/Void Helm. Sure, painter stone is faster and colorless, but it's not new, and unless I'm reading it wrong it can only take out one player per turn like RiP Helm. Blood Clock requires more setup but kills the table.

Duskmantle/Mindcrank been around for years too.

I really think people are confused if they think this combo is anything but hot garbage ready to get blown out by Volrath's Stronghold and Academy Ruins over and over again.

Quote from shermanido37 »

There has got to be something broken we can do with Painter's Servant. We can Muddle for it, as well as Tribute Mage for it, so it would be pretty accessible, though sadly it's not Recruitable.
The obvious combo is Grindstone, but it seems pretty slow and only kills one player at a time.

Yeah the grindstone combo is trash.

The best actually practical thing in EDH Ugin, the Spirit Dragon I think. But I can't think of anything that really has much value with our gameplan.

I'm just glad I don't have to play against any more Paradox Engine - too busy with that to be thinking about brewing

I'm gonna take a little credit for the PE banning. Really happy about that one.

The most similar banning ever was probably staff of domination. A card that combo'd with a number of other cards and its existence was primarily to combo.

I think they eventually unbanned staff because it required quite a bit more work to combo (essentially needing a single creature that taps for +5 mana or an infinite mana outlet on board). Comboing with "critical mass" instead of "very specific other cards" is what I think eventually doomed PE.

Just a heads up that I will be at least trying MTGNexus as my primary primer location. I will mirror changes over here periodically but will not be posting on the regular for a while--sadly I only have bandwidth to keep up on one consistently.

I actually forgot that Tidespout makes infinite mana with a variety of rocks that I am running.

Quote from shermanido37 »

I just cannot sympathize with Tyrant. Admittedly the static ability is pretty good, but it all just feels so clunky on a 8 mana card, and the body does not match the power of that mana cost.
If we compare it to, say, God-Eternal Oketra, a card which I rather dislike in this deck, I'd give the edge to Oketra:

• Costs less colored mana, and less mana overall
• Inevitability (hard to get rid of)
• Deals more damage and has higher toughness, so a better body (excluding evasion)
• Creates big bodies instead of bouncing stuff, so can actually finish the game

If we agree that the best case scenario for both cards is Whitemane Lion that costs W, I think it's a clear win to her.

Yeah, I 100% agree it might be bad. I don't really struggle to make UUU (playing Teferi and all that) though due to the overpriced manabase

When I think about all the synergies Tyrant has as a bomb though it's pretty tough to pass up at least testing it out. Things like:

* Venser, Shaper Savant - 4 mana cantrip capsize
* Whitemane Lion - 2 mana cantrip capsize
* Stonecloaker - 3 mana cantrip capsize that grave hates
* Capsize - 6 mana double capsize
* Forbid - capsize + counterspell for 1uu and 2 cards
* Reveillark - ridiculous over the top value chain that's nearly unstoppable

Additionally it protects itself from my sweepers, which is pretty nice (though Avacyn does similar for the most part).

I do think I will pick up an Oketra to try at some point in that slot, but for now I have a list of:

• Tidespout Tyrant
  
• Avacyn, Angel of Hope
  
• Kederekt Leviathan
  
• rite of replication
  
• stormtide leviathan
  

And I think I'll just try them as I get a chance. No real harm in testing.

I got 3 games in tonight;

Game 1 I lost to a weird octopus deck to this leviathan that taps all your crap down when someone attacks, he got me twice with that and wasn't really much I could do. He just got a really crazy nut mana draw and correctly identified me as the threat.

Game 2 I dominated with Sacred Mesa played correctly, drew a bunch of cards and stalled the game. I had literally everything this game; Mesa + multiple mystical tutors + forbid + blasting station + monastery mentor + hour of revelation in hand. It would have taken an act of God for me to lose. I eventually combo'd off with intuition into the body double combo with double forbid backup.

Game 3 I could have won had I played better politics. I lost my evac-archaeomancer lock to a counterspell I could have easily talked my way out of, just was tired and made bad choices. I almost ultimatted Venser but they teamed up and stopped it (sneaking a rift through a counterspell).

Game 3 did solidify for me that Venser is not where this deck wants to be anymore. I got him on turn 4 after Ephara on turn 3 and started blinking my silver myr and it was about as good as it could be short of having Gilded Drake lock. I decided to cut Venser for my rotating bomb slot.

I really am pretty sure I want to try Tidespout Tyrant since I spent the games thought-exercising what each bomb would do, and Tidespout would have convincingly won any game I had drawn it in (Well not the first one in which I got double timewalked by a stupid fish :)).

Mox diamond did the lord's work in game 2 giving me a turn 2 Ephara off t1 Mox diamond into Azorius signet. Pretty sure I have to keep that despite how awkward it can be.

I did not see Tithe or Windborn because I forgot to put them in the actual paper deck

2019/07/06 Update

Cut Venser the Sojourner
add Tidespout Tyrant

Venser has been such a theme of the deck for so long but people never let him ultimate anymore and without ultimatting he's not really that great. Sometimes he locks with Gilded Drake but so does tidespout, and it also blocks and cantrips. I suspect Tidespout may be worse than Stormtide Leviathan or Avacyn, or even possibly Kederekt Leviathan, but I am going to just start experimenting in that slot.

Quote from Hermes_ »

and unban recurring nightmare right?

I am ready for all the gray merchant of asphodel cycling kokusho tears. Just play some gravehate scrubs, amirite?

I think when a change causes something to decline slowly it's very difficult to see until it's too late.

A scenario that I could envision is one where another format takes over slowly over time because the speed change makes it preferable.

This kind of thing happens so slowly it can reach critical mass before it becomes obvious it's even happening.

And again I don't pretend it's that likely. 1-9% is a small risk. But imho it's an order of magnitude more likely than simple bans.

Quote from MRHblue »

Quote from Pokken »

Thought experiment: if Expropriate was a modal spell and the first one was Ponder for UU, would it be broken?

What?

A simple thought experiment; if Expropriate had an alternate mode that was a powerful early curve spell, would it be broken?

Finale of Devastation is conceptually similar. It has a pretty good early game effect and a late game effect that wins on the same card.

I don't think it necessarily tells you anything but it's interesting to think about.

Urza paradox engine is what I think is probably the best deck in CEDH for this purpose. Having a two card combo on a general who ramps is ridiculous.

Thrasios/Tymna is probably slightly stronger. But for pubstomping pubstompers, Urza is going to be way more savage with the stax locks and stuff. Tapping Static Orb for mana, sign me up

The only major rule change that I can think of that ever happened in the current era** (other than banlist changes) was the Tuck rule, and at the time it was extremely divisive. I know a number of people who quit playing for a long time over it, and fundamentally that rule changes decks significantly less than life totals.

The previous life total change is really not one that I would consider to have been during the history of EDH. It happened over 10 years ago when the game was basically a novelty with no established metagame. The previous life change happened before the banning of:

• Tolarian academy
  
• channel
  
• rofellos
  
• primeval titan
  
• griselbrand
  
• sundering titan
  
• emrakul, the aeons torn
  

Also note that at this time exiling generals removed them permanently (that rule changed in 2009)

At the time that the Tuck change happened that allowed replacement for into the library effects, there was a *ton* of doom and gloom. And this is a way bigger change than that.

Pretending it's impossible that it has serious consequences is what I find ludicrous.

** What I consider a very minor change also happened - the allowing people to make mana of other colors. But that's nowhere near the level of even tuck, much less life total changing.