Quote from Makaro »Quote from Shodai »Could someone inform me what Twisted Image is for in this deck? Is it really just there to be a cantrip and fill the graveyard for Cruise? Is there some sort of interaction I'm missing that makes it main deck material? I can only think of how it kills Spellskite, otherwise we are literally just play Reach Through Mists which doesn't seem like a card I want in my deck when I could Thought Scour.
kills Spellskite/Hierarch/Birds, does "damage" to creatures w/ higher power than toughness (getting Restoration Angel in to bolt range for example), sometimes protects your guys from removal, gives your Swiftspear 2 more power while drawing a card
There's also this really great interaction when someone flashes in Clique to block your flipped Delver and you make there Clique a 1/3.
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I disagree with the notion that Eldrazi is taking up the same space as Jund/Junk. while it does occupy that space it is a mid-range deck that gets to play-out its mid range threats 2T early. it is a aggro deck that gets to jump directly to the mid game.
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Completely disagree; BBE was already being hated as oppressive before DRS. DRS just put a format warping deck over the top. If you don't think it was warping the format your practicing some very selective memory. No other mid range deck existed as a competitive option. The cascade plus a hasty okay body was so much better than anything else going on. It would simply demand the removal of other spells from the format simply due to the dual card advantage and free mana. If the body didn't come stock with haste I think it would be okay but with all of the great =/<3cc options jund has it would quickly eradicate the other mid range options.
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I don't think mid range can handle Eldrazi tbh. They are simply a better mid range value deck than exists in any UB UR UW x strategies. All of their creatures pack so much value, countering and removal just dont cut it when they develope their mana nase more and more. Between TKS and Matter reshaper flying down turn 2\3 its incredibly difficult to exchange profitably with the tools colored cards have access to. When double matter reshapers on turn 2 or reshaper plus TKS off a SSG.
I've been trying UR delver with stormchaser mage and main deck blood moon, tbh the match up seems 50/50 very dependent on the die roll. Even with 4 spreading seas and 2 molten rains in the SB keeping them off mana is still hard since they play GQs mutavaults etc first if the expect the land hate plan to explode on a t3-4 after they weather the storm and you've either wasted your time snipping single lands and not developing your board. I like stormchaser everytime i can stick him his flying is super relevant against the colorless version and the UR removal is much more effective generally against the UReldrazis early game. Vapor snag is a allstar since you can just use it on TKS before his discard effect resolves.
Board sweepers are not that great since they run multiple Reality smashers.
Forked bolt deals with mimics well.
Vapor snag for anything out of bolt range
Fast evasive creatures.
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to be honest I've been on grixis for along time and it is utterly unplayable with Eldrazi in the format as it is today. It would seem the same is true for every other attrition based creature strategy that doesn't rely on cheating out creatures with busted fast mana or any aggro deck that isn't affinity.
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I can't think of a single unbanning that would improve a decks chances against Eldrazi. And if the only other option is printing some new stuff then I think you prove my point. I also am not sure what type of spell they could print that wouldn't either be to little in the face of 4:16+ or that wouldn't just warp the format into Eldrazi + whatever this hypothetical new cards home would be. Counterspell wouldn't help much nearly every version of the deck in the top 8 runs U counterspell would just slide right in.
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So in fact the videos are currently the strongest source of evidence we have. The argument that the filmed observations only show the random very rare busted hand is truely week.if in fact it was as rare as implied by the defenders of bloom titan then we should expect that these hands would have far less documentation as elusive rare events are by their nature more likely to go unobserved. The fact that we have more representatives of the busted play sequences than of the saposed far more common dirdlie t5-t6 kills flies in the face of reason. If what the bloom players said was true a far greater number of stars would have to line up to provision that when observed bloom titan decks are more often observed behaving abnormally.
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That was the real issue with Pod, not that it was simply busted(even thou it certainly is); but that it invalidates every other strategy attempting to occupy the same space in the meta game. I think SFM will have a similar effect of the format; the fact that its cc is 1W and it searches up a colorless card will likely push it into a must splash area. I don't think WotC wants to foster a format that demands every non-combo non-hyper linear/synergy deck needs to have a SFM package. I think what we would see is that the post Pod banning meta which generally has no strictly "best" fair creature deck and instead has shown that a experienced pilot who if familiar with the ins and outs of the deck they choose can compete; this would fade away as every deck would need to start packing SFM packages. I mean during the Pod era you had variance because Pod lends itself to "customization" but if you want a competitive mid-range/creature deck you must play Pod and the package that facilitates it or you simply accepted that you are playing a far and away sub par strategy to Pod.
I think if WotC decides to ban something from Amulet Bloom it will be Amulet of Vigor; its the only card in the deck that really pushes the t2 t3 wins. I've had Bloom players kill me t2/t3 multiple times in various ways all of which would have been impossible without Amulet of Vigor. Also Amulet of Vigor poses a greater risk of future complications as WotC likes to print powerful effects coupled with the draw back of "comes into play tapped" I don't think they would want to risk banning pea's and carrots like Summer Bloom or Azusa who help make the meal when the real meat and potatoes Amulet of Vigor is still making the meal.
Banning Amulet wouldn't kill the deck; it would kill the t2/t3 wins the deck is able to do now. It would become a t4/t5 deck that can't fight through as much hate as the current deck can. It would only kill the deck if the point of the deck is to have consistent t2/t3 combo kills; which WotC have stated over,and over, and over....that they do not desire a top tiered deck to have.
I have personally tried lots of cards to combat the combo(not because OMG its scary; its just blew up in popularity and you know you adjust or die)
boomerang is actually rather good, t2 bounce the land they need to target with the karoo can set them back a few turns.
hibernation if you can live long enough and have it t3 is often game ending if they rely on bloom and not Azusa since they will often have one land in play if they don't have a redundant land dump spell to follow it Prime time isn't coming back for a few turns.
If the deck is as good as the advocates and detractors say(lets be honest both camps agree its super good they only differ on the "if its healthy to exist" question); if its that good we could look at potential unbannings to help combat it if neutering the deck is so gross a offense.
the only card you could remove from the ban list to help the format combat it is Mental Misstep.......
its the only card that could universally go into any deck to combat the actual problem t1 amulet.
delaying the amulet a turn is often enough for interactive decks to have a opportunity to compete.
so if the deck is as good as the defenders/offenders around it say it is; Mental Misstep is the only readily available option we could look to as a Panacea potion to the problem that doesn't involve a new card being banned.
which to me sounds like they would ban Amulet.
personally I play grixis variants and I more often win matches against the deck than i lose. My g1 on the draw against it is something like 80-20 or 90-10 in favor of the Bloom player; closer to 60-40 if I am on the play g1. After side boarding it gets alot better closer to 50-50 and given the complexity of the deck the operator is far more likely to make a misplay than I am which probably puts it closer to 55-45 in my favor.
Like I have said I don't think the deck warrants a banning yet. i think it remains to be seen and would like to have WotC wait until after the PT to see what numbers come up from that event. I mean we allowed Pod to strangle the format for years; i think giving AB one more B&R cycle seems reasonable. I want to see what the best are able to do with the deck. I also want to see more matches against more decks; just because i feel ok with my match up against AB doesn't mean that the statements of other players regarding how oppressive it is against the remainder of the meta are invalid.
the only time I ever scoop to the deck is when they land a Hive Mind as no real interaction exists for a resolved HM into any Pact.
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Second, SFM being unbanned is interesting. Two outcomes seem most likely to me; 1-it will simply be good enough to warrant inclusion in any deck running white,2-it is so good it warps the format around white; white already has the best sideboard cards in the format and some some of the best removal this might be the push W needs to move from premier support/hate color splash to full on premier Base color.
Third, Shocked at the amount of people equating Pod's meta share to Twins as some justification. Pod was banned because it made all other creature decks unplayable; Twin obviously doesn't have the same effect on combo. The format has never looked more open and healthy and I would say that this is the result of the banning of Pod and the U delve card advantage. Why play any other creature deck when you can play the hands down best creature deck that happens to be able to silver bullet a infinite life and infinite damage combo that only occupies 2-4 cards out of your deck. Did i forget to mention that your combo pieces also play fantastic with you tutor effect. Pod wasn't a policing deck it was oppressing.
Last, As a U mage I can only laugh at the idea of unbanning JtMS or AV; I would love to play draw-go control but these are not healthy cards in modern.
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Not saying shoal is a useless card it isn't but it in no way can function like FoW does in legacy given the intense variance in what your hand can allow you to interact with. I personally like the RUG build that floats around it has its match ups such as Tron and Amulet that in a given meta can be a superior choice; but personally I haven't had trouble with the deck when I play against it with various RUB or BGx decks. Specifically against BGx decks running abrupt decay the card is very poor often forcing opponents to exile useful cards in an attempt to disrupt a bolt etc.. only to have your early threat ADecayed at the end of a non-zero sum exchange with the attrition player.
Tempo is fundamentally different in modern than in legacy. Unless WotC decides to slam the ban hammer on more BGx staples I don't see how tempo can pull ahead in a meaningful non-variant way. That's why the delve draw spells were so powerful; they did not rely nearly as heavily on variance and provided actual tempo against BGX attrition.
I would agree with the previous posts that Grixis Delver isn't a pure tempo deck its a tempo/attrition/aggro deck with so many fingers in different pies exposes the fundamental reason that Mid-range Grixis generally out performs the Delver variant. while t1 delver in legacy is the default best play on the play; the same isn't true with delver in modern. Shoal provides the occasion to sometimes play early disruption but is has so much variance. I've played with the card off and on since the birth of the format and my general feelings is its meh. I often am forced to pitch relevant spells in order to attempt to protect my threat only to have it die to a early Dismember while i'm holding shoal with no 3cc cards in hand. One of the worst feeings in modern is likely going (-3)-(-4) in the hand to come out on a losing end of a attrition war, simply because of high variance or cannot be countered clauses; when Shoal fails it often ends out in a very non-beneficial non-zero sum out come in your opponents favor.