@xseizanx
My guess on the 15th sideboard card is combust. I really liked Geist in all the control matchups I brought it in and thought a 3rd copy wouldn't be bad.
My reasoning for cutting a Kiki is that most of my games are actually won via angel or colonade beatdown, not comboing out. I rarely ever want a kiki early as I'm pretty comfortable playing a long game against most decks and the whole gamble on them not having spot removal usually turns into kiki being a 5 mana lightning bolt.
I didn't test 3 Wall of Omens so I can't answer on that. When I ran 4, I would side out 2-3 Walls every game that wasn't against aggro so I cut down to two. The only matchup that I missed having 4 Walls was against BG as those would have saved me from the manlands.
I plan on testing more basics, a fourth snapcaster, squelch, and molten rains in the next month before another local ptq.
I played in a ~180 ptq in Minneapolis on Saturday. I took ~25th and I just wanted to thank you guys for the help with playing against tron and scapeshift! Your advice directly affect my sideboard choices and strategy and helped lead me to a game win and a match win.
I don't find full reports helpful so I'll post my matches and thoughts on my specific card choices and sb.
1. UW Tron (1-1 draw)
2. UWR Control, Helix and Keranos (0-1-1 loss)
3. Fish (2-1 win)
4. UWR Twin (2-0 win)
5. UGR Twin (2-0 win)
6. Pod (2-0 win)
7. BG (1-2 loss)
8. Scapeshift (2-1 win)
I went 5-2-1 in matches and 12-6-1 in games. Both of the opponents that beat me made top 8.
I blame my round 1 draw and round 2 loss to me having not played live magic in a long time. Round 2 I had game two locked up but unfortunately my opponent got the last turn.
The only match I felt that was incredibly unfavoured was round 7 against bg. I asked my opponent about his deck afterward and he said he had 4 tec edges and 4 fulminator mages. I never got past 4 lands in games 2 and 3. He beat me with manlands and I just couldn't draw enough paths, bolts, and snapcasters to keep up while I held my wraths in hand.
MB Choices:
Wall of Omen: As I never want to cast one before turn four unless I'm against aggro I cut it down to two.
Shadow of doubt: I wanted something more for the scapeshift matchup and against pod. It also slowed down tron and stopped numerous fetches.
Sphinx: I think the most I cast it for was 3, and that was good enough when I needed it. Was only dead against GB.
SB Choices:
The only cards I didn't cast in my sideboard were Anger and Celestial Purge.
The only card that I cast and didn't really matter was Wrath of God against the bg deck who then killed me with manlands. I had so many cards I wanted to bring in against BG that I'm quite certain I sided wrong.
I swapped Sowing Salt with Geist based on your recommendations. My turn 3 Geist against Scapeshift was met with "That's a creature" and 3 turns later Geist and an angel were happy to win the game.
I couldn't find a Counterflux or I would have considered swapping negate out for that but I figured Negate is a good replacement.
I'm playing a list similar to Shaun McLaren's. I would appreciate advice on how to play against tron and scapeshift as they seem like the worst matchups.
For instance, do I want to drop a turn two snapcaster and try to just start beating down? Do I counter their acceleration and hope to stall them long enough to combo out?
Sideboarding: What is your goal here? I don't know if salts or geist is a better route. Geist will end the game if they don't have an answer immediately. Salts lets me control the game more.
I've been testing Torpor Orb out and am wondering if it might be better off as Damping Matrix due to the benefit of shutting off pod shenanigans. It can come out on turn two and still stops twin from going off.
The blue moon deck from BoM ran Combusts which I assume are for the hatebears and twin matchups. Also kills the white Eidolon.
The RUG deck ran molten rain which seems good against control/twin matchups.
Spellskite is something I haven't played with in a while but is also good against twin and infect.
I'm very comfortable with running the Finkel list maindeck but would appreciate to see how others side against pod and ur twin. They both have been difficult for me.
Do you play Wipe Away over Echoing Truth? I like Combust as it deals with the white eidolon as well as Exarch/Pestermite but I think the versatility of bouncing all copies of a target makes Echoing Truth better. Combust/Wipe Away is better if your opponent has Spellskite or isn't tapping out for the combo.
Side question: Let's say my hand is 3 rituals and probe. Ascension is in play. Do you power ascension up and then cast probe or just cast probe? I came into this situation and it ended up not mattering as my next 4-5 draws were lands and rituals but what would you do?
I played this in a small GPT. Having not played in 6 months to a year I ran my old build with Increasing Vengeance. The only game where I thought increasing vengeance really made a difference was when I had to mill out my opponent with thought scours and 3 active ascensions.
I'm curious what you think of Swan Song? It seems like a good answer to the Eidolons and may help some other matchups.
I scrubbed out pretty hard at the SCG Minneapolis. I played against punishing shardless, 2x shardless, lands, and uwg standstill.
Is shardless a bad matchup? I went 1-5-1 (3 rounds) in games against shardless. The punishing shardless games weren't even close. I know I made a play mistake in one loss, a sideboarding mistake in another, and then just played slow or that draw might have been a win. It seems winnable until they cast ancestral visions. So maybe I could have been 3-4 had I played tight.
Punishing lands preboard was pretty rough, I almost won due to him not getting green mana for a few turns but once he cast loam it was over. If I had conceded a little earlier to him game 1 I might not have drawn in game 3.
I think UWG landstill was the match I should have won but lost. I took game one almost exclusively from Thalia and denying him mana. I lost game two when he landed jace then supreme verdict allowed him the use of jace and vedalken shackles after I shut down both with revokers. Game 3 I was stuck on 1 plains until he eventually killed me.
I definitely think the thing that hurt me most was not knowing what to side. Naming the wrong cards with revoker/needle cost me up to two games, one ended in a draw.
I decided to play this at the SCG Open this weekend(hometown) but don't have cataclysm. Is that something you recommend trying to pickup before the tournament?
Also could someone please explain how/when to side it in? What do you cut for it?
I'll test out think twice, full set of peer through depths, and see beyond. I recall liking see beyond back in standard but if I'm digging for a win it loses appeal. I'm expecting peer will be better than see beyond and then it will come down to is digging 5 better than being able to power ascension with just two think twice.
Also, think twice is a little better against all the discard effects. Lilliana is quite a beating if you can't go off in a turn or two with no ca to counteract it.
My SB:
4x bolt
3x torpor orb
2x defense grid
3x warrens
2x echoing truth
1x shattering spree
My hardest matchups so far seem to be uwr flash and affinity. Also, I'm liking the warrens kill less and less as people seem to expect it. Postboard against uwr flash they had wrath of gods still. Agaisnt kiki they kept in slagstorms. I also lost a game to burn the other day due to rakdos charm(though they should bring that in anway for graveyard hate).
I just 4-0'd a daily with close to the Finkel list, main exception is I have thought scours instead of ravings. My sb also had topor orb which was relevant against the 2 pod decks and kikijiki deck I played against.
I noticed that thought scour was generally the first card to come out of the deck every time i sided. Since i don't like ravings, and thought scour seems mediocre, I wondered if anyone had tested think twice? It has the benefit flashback like ravings and doesn't make me discard a card at random(i don't like random).
Machu, thank you for your post on page 6 regarding siding, it's pretty helpful as a general guide
If Melira Pod gains infinite life, the only way you can really win is if you're running the infinite combo with Noxoius Revival. Otherwise they can just gain a stupid amount of life that you cannot reach. I suppose you could eventually mill them out with copied Thought Scours, but it is extremely likely that they would find Redcap before that and just finish you off.
Interesting thought. Since I like excel and milling people FTW I did some quick math. It is very possible to do with only 3 Thought Scours main. With 2 active Ascensions it would only take 8 casts of Thought Scour. It gets easer with more active Ascensions but 2 on turn 4/5 seems as realistic as this scenario probably gets. It is not possible without an active ascension and with only one active it takes all the TS, PiF, Veng to mill 48 cards. (EDIT: Realized my math was slightly off as the double copy from Vengeance doesn't get copied)
Getting 2-3 active ascension asap is your only hope once they go infinite life. Thank you for showing me that I shouldn't just concede once they go infinite life! I just need to be careful about wasting TS.
I've been playing this deck quite a bit for the past month to prep for KC(and now I'm not going) but I was curious why people like desperate ravings?
I absolutely hate playing it and losing a card I need, namely Manamorphose, while searching for a goblin/ascension/kill. I see the benefit of being able to activate Ascension with just two ravings but it just seems not good enough unless I'm already winning. I replaced mine with Though Scour because it puts cards in my graveyard giving me more information and is another turn one cantrip.
It's possible I'm just playing this card wrong. How do you play this card correctly?
If pod goes turn 1 seer, t2 melira, is it correct to grapeshot just melira, or do you grapeshot both if able? Or do you just hope they don't have it? This is assuming you can't probe to see if they have finks in hand. Do you just concede the game once they go infinite life?
My guess on the 15th sideboard card is combust. I really liked Geist in all the control matchups I brought it in and thought a 3rd copy wouldn't be bad.
My reasoning for cutting a Kiki is that most of my games are actually won via angel or colonade beatdown, not comboing out. I rarely ever want a kiki early as I'm pretty comfortable playing a long game against most decks and the whole gamble on them not having spot removal usually turns into kiki being a 5 mana lightning bolt.
I didn't test 3 Wall of Omens so I can't answer on that. When I ran 4, I would side out 2-3 Walls every game that wasn't against aggro so I cut down to two. The only matchup that I missed having 4 Walls was against BG as those would have saved me from the manlands.
I plan on testing more basics, a fourth snapcaster, squelch, and molten rains in the next month before another local ptq.
I don't find full reports helpful so I'll post my matches and thoughts on my specific card choices and sb.
4 Arid Mesa
1 Cascade Bluffs
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Wall of Omens
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Batterskull
1 Celestial Purge
1 Dispel
2 Geist
1 Negate
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Piece
2 Stony Silence
1 Wear/Tear
2 Wrath of God
I played (in order of round):
1. UW Tron (1-1 draw)
2. UWR Control, Helix and Keranos (0-1-1 loss)
3. Fish (2-1 win)
4. UWR Twin (2-0 win)
5. UGR Twin (2-0 win)
6. Pod (2-0 win)
7. BG (1-2 loss)
8. Scapeshift (2-1 win)
I went 5-2-1 in matches and 12-6-1 in games. Both of the opponents that beat me made top 8.
I blame my round 1 draw and round 2 loss to me having not played live magic in a long time. Round 2 I had game two locked up but unfortunately my opponent got the last turn.
The only match I felt that was incredibly unfavoured was round 7 against bg. I asked my opponent about his deck afterward and he said he had 4 tec edges and 4 fulminator mages. I never got past 4 lands in games 2 and 3. He beat me with manlands and I just couldn't draw enough paths, bolts, and snapcasters to keep up while I held my wraths in hand.
MB Choices:
Wall of Omen: As I never want to cast one before turn four unless I'm against aggro I cut it down to two.
Shadow of doubt: I wanted something more for the scapeshift matchup and against pod. It also slowed down tron and stopped numerous fetches.
Sphinx: I think the most I cast it for was 3, and that was good enough when I needed it. Was only dead against GB.
SB Choices:
The only cards I didn't cast in my sideboard were Anger and Celestial Purge.
The only card that I cast and didn't really matter was Wrath of God against the bg deck who then killed me with manlands. I had so many cards I wanted to bring in against BG that I'm quite certain I sided wrong.
I swapped Sowing Salt with Geist based on your recommendations. My turn 3 Geist against Scapeshift was met with "That's a creature" and 3 turns later Geist and an angel were happy to win the game.
I couldn't find a Counterflux or I would have considered swapping negate out for that but I figured Negate is a good replacement.
Thanks again for the help!
For instance, do I want to drop a turn two snapcaster and try to just start beating down? Do I counter their acceleration and hope to stall them long enough to combo out?
Sideboarding: What is your goal here? I don't know if salts or geist is a better route. Geist will end the game if they don't have an answer immediately. Salts lets me control the game more.
Thanks!
The blue moon deck from BoM ran Combusts which I assume are for the hatebears and twin matchups. Also kills the white Eidolon.
The RUG deck ran molten rain which seems good against control/twin matchups.
Spellskite is something I haven't played with in a while but is also good against twin and infect.
I'm very comfortable with running the Finkel list maindeck but would appreciate to see how others side against pod and ur twin. They both have been difficult for me.
Do you play Wipe Away over Echoing Truth? I like Combust as it deals with the white eidolon as well as Exarch/Pestermite but I think the versatility of bouncing all copies of a target makes Echoing Truth better. Combust/Wipe Away is better if your opponent has Spellskite or isn't tapping out for the combo.
Side question: Let's say my hand is 3 rituals and probe. Ascension is in play. Do you power ascension up and then cast probe or just cast probe? I came into this situation and it ended up not mattering as my next 4-5 draws were lands and rituals but what would you do?
I'm curious what you think of Swan Song? It seems like a good answer to the Eidolons and may help some other matchups.
Is shardless a bad matchup? I went 1-5-1 (3 rounds) in games against shardless. The punishing shardless games weren't even close. I know I made a play mistake in one loss, a sideboarding mistake in another, and then just played slow or that draw might have been a win. It seems winnable until they cast ancestral visions. So maybe I could have been 3-4 had I played tight.
Punishing lands preboard was pretty rough, I almost won due to him not getting green mana for a few turns but once he cast loam it was over. If I had conceded a little earlier to him game 1 I might not have drawn in game 3.
I think UWG landstill was the match I should have won but lost. I took game one almost exclusively from Thalia and denying him mana. I lost game two when he landed jace then supreme verdict allowed him the use of jace and vedalken shackles after I shut down both with revokers. Game 3 I was stuck on 1 plains until he eventually killed me.
I definitely think the thing that hurt me most was not knowing what to side. Naming the wrong cards with revoker/needle cost me up to two games, one ended in a draw.
Also could someone please explain how/when to side it in? What do you cut for it?
I appreciate the amazing primer Finn made!
Also, think twice is a little better against all the discard effects. Lilliana is quite a beating if you can't go off in a turn or two with no ca to counteract it.
My SB:
4x bolt
3x torpor orb
2x defense grid
3x warrens
2x echoing truth
1x shattering spree
My hardest matchups so far seem to be uwr flash and affinity. Also, I'm liking the warrens kill less and less as people seem to expect it. Postboard against uwr flash they had wrath of gods still. Agaisnt kiki they kept in slagstorms. I also lost a game to burn the other day due to rakdos charm(though they should bring that in anway for graveyard hate).
I noticed that thought scour was generally the first card to come out of the deck every time i sided. Since i don't like ravings, and thought scour seems mediocre, I wondered if anyone had tested think twice? It has the benefit flashback like ravings and doesn't make me discard a card at random(i don't like random).
Machu, thank you for your post on page 6 regarding siding, it's pretty helpful as a general guide
Interesting thought. Since I like excel and milling people FTW I did some quick math. It is very possible to do with only 3 Thought Scours main. With 2 active Ascensions it would only take 8 casts of Thought Scour. It gets easer with more active Ascensions but 2 on turn 4/5 seems as realistic as this scenario probably gets. It is not possible without an active ascension and with only one active it takes all the TS, PiF, Veng to mill 48 cards. (EDIT: Realized my math was slightly off as the double copy from Vengeance doesn't get copied)
Getting 2-3 active ascension asap is your only hope once they go infinite life. Thank you for showing me that I shouldn't just concede once they go infinite life! I just need to be careful about wasting TS.
I absolutely hate playing it and losing a card I need, namely Manamorphose, while searching for a goblin/ascension/kill. I see the benefit of being able to activate Ascension with just two ravings but it just seems not good enough unless I'm already winning. I replaced mine with Though Scour because it puts cards in my graveyard giving me more information and is another turn one cantrip.
It's possible I'm just playing this card wrong. How do you play this card correctly?
If pod goes turn 1 seer, t2 melira, is it correct to grapeshot just melira, or do you grapeshot both if able? Or do you just hope they don't have it? This is assuming you can't probe to see if they have finks in hand. Do you just concede the game once they go infinite life?
Thank you!