*If* we played Mongoose, would that justify wanting to try Domri, Anarch of Bolas, to get the +1 power boost, or does that just water our deck down too much?
Quite nice that we can slam Domri on 3 mana and immediately plus it to cast either green threat. But I think the walker lends itself more easily to the Mandrills build by overtly meshing with Stubborn via Delver pumps and being less counterspell-heavy as a result of playing its threats on average later than the Mongoose builds will want to.
I do like how Mongoose takes pressure off the sideboard for midrange (and especially control) matchups. No more do we need to run stuff like Huntmaster just to outlast enemy removal; we can dodge it entirely as a plan. We do become significantly weaker to more types of grave hate though, incl. stuff like Nihil Spellbomb that we literally have never cared about.
I've only played 10 rounds with it so far, but I never felt like there was an issue arising from the spread of utility lands, at most I've considered cutting one Blinkmoth for a third Blast Zone.
For the record that would be my exact current manabase. I've gone to 2 Blink 3 Zone. Only difference is I run 23 lands, not 24, so -1 Quarter. To weigh in on the recent discussion, pretty sure Void is always insane in this deck, and would probably never go below 4. Karn is here to address previously unwinnable and difficult MUs because it doesn't much hurt our good MUs. We are definitely a worse "Karn deck" than Tron, but who cares?
I tried out a list with two new Karns and one Blast Zone (wanted more but couldnt find any) at my LGS. Unfortunately, my opponents had the nuts two rounds and I got a bye, but here's my first impressions.
Karn did not feel good. I sided it out most of the time and never drew it but I also never wanted to. I kept it in againt affinity but that deck was way too fast for Karn to matter anyways. Meh.
Blast Zone single-handedly won me a game against humans. Was able to nab 4 (!) 1 drops with it. Would recommend.
The idea is that our good MUs are good enough that having Karn in game 1 isn't so bad. Think of it as drawing a Serum Powder against decks like Burn. But having Karn in the main makes previously unwinnable (Bridge prison, Hardened Scales) or difficult (UW) much better if not outright favorable. It's well worth the tradeoff when it comes to increasing percentage points across the board, but you will definitely have lots of outlier-type, anecdotal events of it being "bad" to cherry pick from if that's the case you want to make. In any case, run what you like 😌
Think I will go to 3 Blast Zone. Pretty much always want it, even against like, control decks.
Am I the only one excited about the Red Eldrazi deck Mark Jacobson piloted? I think there is a lot of potential to tune and polish that deck (not a fan of the Blood Moon plan personally).
I have a suggestion, and I know it may sound a bit controversial.
If you don't like ban talk, then don't open a thread specifically talking about the State of Modern and B&R.
Crazy, I know.
As Kathal alluded to, this thread exists because that sort of discussion is inevitable on a board about Modern. It's necessary to keep other threads from getting derailed by ban talk. A more practical (and simple) solution: if you don't like ban talk, then don't enter a thread specifically talking about the State of Modern and B&R. Unless that's what you meant by "open," in which case yeah.
Okay, I see what you're saying for the most part. I'm definitely on board with the killing x-1s mode - it's the planeswalkers I'm still a bit curious about. It seems good against Teferi, Liliana and Chandra because they will often "start" at 1 against us, but it seems mediocre against Jace, no? Unless we're teaming it with a Blinkmoth or something. And is it really worth a card to ping Karn down to 2 against Tron? I noticed in your Worcester report you had access to Shot but didn't bring it in against UW or Tron.
There have been more recent reports since then that do bring it in, as well as dedicated matchup guides that advocate for it. Gut is definitely bad against Tron. It's amazing when the walkers go to 1, which most walkers do against us. Fine against Jace decks because they tend to run Clique anyway; that and Bolt-Snap-bolt is their only way to actually beat us. Combined with manlands, pretty much any walker goes down really fast.
Since Colorless is forced to run really narrow stuff in the side because it has no colors, the spells we do employ tend to have very specific uses, and they will definitely underperform if those uses are not understood by the pilot. It sounds like you haven't actually tried GS in these matchups with its purpose in mind. Jamming games is the best way to absorb this information, but if you're looking for a shortcut, read my articles.
Hey, thanks for the article. I'm wondering about the Gut Shot. You said you want one to be able to randomly hit planeswalkers. How often does that actually come up/which planeswalkers are you targeting with it? Seems kinda narrow to me.
Gut Shot is pretty much the single most effective card in the deck during the turn cycle in which an opponents resolves a planeswalker. So against decks with lots of planeswalkers (UW, Jund, Tron, Skred, etc.), it comes up a lot. It's also one of our best cards against decks hinging on x/1s, e.g. Humans, Spirits. And sometimes it does both things, like against Dark Confidant, Young Pyromancer, or Vendilion Clique decks. Against everyone else, just don't bring it in. "Randomly" because there's only one copy, but that copy is still amazing where it's relevant; especially at lower numbers, Gut is never really a card that rots in hand against the decks you bring it in for.
I am not impressed with the Orb so far and have cut it for a second Gut.
It's so easy to see on this new decklist rule who likes linear noninteractive games and who doesn't.
Playing Counter-Cat with that ruling sucks REALLY A LOT. That the opp doesn't know the exact type of interaction the deck runs and what the deck even is (and what it can do) is one of the biggest benefits, like Blood Moon less Blue Moon lists, where opponents think you are on Phoenix/Blue Moon and thus start playing around stuff which they don't even need, which gives you the tempo advanage.
For Game 1 it is a huge bummer, for game 2 & 3 it is okay, especially if it is only the cards included the deck, not the quantity.
Greetings,
Kathal
I dunno, knowing when to keep Muta/Pierce/Path/Goyf versus not could be huge in that deck. I think this change buffs interactive decks such as Counter-Cat, but at the cost of diversity, as strategies that care less about what opponents have but are trying to string together wins in unconventional ways become significantly less potent under this rule.
Ugh, yer killin' me [card=Tamiyo, Collector of Tales]Tamiyo[/c]!! Why'd you have to be 4 mana! What a sweet card for us! Unfortunately we'd already get hit with all the discard and sac effects before she can come down. Le sigh...
Even at CMC 3 we might not play this card. At 4 it's easily worse than JTMS, already a dubious include for us.
I'm surprised Amulet didn't get banned over Summer Bloom when they had the chance. But then again, everyone thought the deck was dead without Bloom - joke's on them now
Turn 2 Summer Bloom makes a turn 3 Primeval Titan. Yes, it's way less powerful with come into play lands that won't untap, but I'm assuming they thought leaving the "Summer Bloom" effect on creatures like Sakura-Tribe Scout and Azusa, Lost but Seeking, with a much worse "Summer Bloom" in Explore all together would make the deck weaker. The deck is definitely weaker overall. Some matchups turned from literally pretty damn close to 90/10 to 60/40. However, 60/40 is still a solid matchup.
I think players nowadays know how to play better against Amulet, along with new tools printed like Damping Sphere (God I hate that card), leads to players not doing as powerful things as they used to.
I like the fact that most of Wizard's bannings leave other playable cards behind, or that they are trying to fix that in the future. Birthing Pod was the only ban without replacement, but Wizards printed multiple cards to make up for it(Collected Company, Eldritch Evolution, Prime Speaker Vannnifar, Neoform). Splinter Twin's replacement was Kiki-Jiki, the mirror breaker, and I read somewhere that Maro would be reluctant in printing such an effect in Standard again, because problems, although they could find the space to print a 4 mana Kiki jiki that is boltable and requires 1RRR in MH, where it will not affect type 2(although I doubt it). Also, control decks like UW top 8 often enough, and Jeskai is a thing(also Esper nearly won the last SCG tour), so one could flee into control decks, like I did for a brief period of time. I really think that every people that complains about control being useless after watching an Esper deck nearly winning the recent SCG is laughably wrong. Like, come on, you are going to play into an FNM, and you can't try the Esper build because it's bad? Your FNM is a lot worse than this SCG. That said, I consider control decks to be an expansion of Twin, so if you ask me it's banning left multiple playable decks behind. I know the vocal "unban Twin/Wizards is incompetent" minority will disagree here, but I am sure I will disagree with everything they will say and so will Wizards, so I don't care to answer back on it and I won't with this kind of attitude. Wizards is trying their best and they are currently adding a whole Modern set to out collection. That's enough for me.
Infect got nerfed, but if it wasn't for Fatal Push, the deck would still be a great deck to have. Amulet Titan is tier 1 and one of the 3 or 5 modern's best decks. Dredge is still Tier 1, with the recent additions. Eldra Tron is still a thing if you want to play that.
Every ban decision has been fine if you ask me.
Now, a possible Faithless Looting ban would affect too many decks in the region of 1000 euros and would outright destroy them, so I doubt it will ever happen. More cards like Damping Sphere or Containment Priest is the solution we all need, so that people's sideboards are filled with better cards like those and we get to fight those kind of decks.
People have said this sort of thing about each of the bans you mentioned: that they would destroy the deck getting hit. But as you noted, those decks have lived on. I think many of the cards in Looting decks would continue to see heavy play in Modern, as most of the Twin cards did regardless of that deck actually becoming unplayable (and Pod, temporarily). Besides, we know that Wizards doesn't care about hitting money decks from their previous bans. Just format health.
Creative, but my gut is telling me that Karn is too slow and (as you note) points us away from the deck's fast-aggro game plan. I know I'd miss the T2 Reshaper play. Also there's this weird tension in G2/3 where if you side in the hate rock, then you can't use Karn to go get it anymore. If Karn does work out, though, I wonder if Thorn of Amethyst might have a role to play in some matchups.
Speaking of tax effects, Jordan, have you played (or played against) the WC Thalia/Arbiter deck at all? I'd love a knowledgeable and experienced perspective on the relative pros and cons of the two builds as they play out in practice. And W buys us peerless hate, in Stony and RiP, that are just better at what they do than what the Colorless decks can put together.
Thanks for continuing to tinker with and post up about this fun aggro deck.
So far I think the utility of accessing the sideboard G1 (as well as the threat of the Mycosynth combo) is worth having 2 non-aggro cards in the deck. On Taxes, see this article:
It seems White Eldrazi Stompy is rivaling posted Colorless finishes for the first time in months. If it is indeed time to metagame against Phoenix and Dredge, this development makes perfect sense. Temple into big threats is good against every deck, while the white cards are only useful in certain matchups, so the added consistency makes CES a better call in an open field. WES wins out over Colorless when cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Rest in Peace, Leonin Arbiter, and Eldrazi Displacer are in high demand, as they are now.
Quite nice that we can slam Domri on 3 mana and immediately plus it to cast either green threat. But I think the walker lends itself more easily to the Mandrills build by overtly meshing with Stubborn via Delver pumps and being less counterspell-heavy as a result of playing its threats on average later than the Mongoose builds will want to.
I do like how Mongoose takes pressure off the sideboard for midrange (and especially control) matchups. No more do we need to run stuff like Huntmaster just to outlast enemy removal; we can dodge it entirely as a plan. We do become significantly weaker to more types of grave hate though, incl. stuff like Nihil Spellbomb that we literally have never cared about.
Think I will go to 3 Blast Zone. Pretty much always want it, even against like, control decks.
Here's the list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Domri, Anarch of Bolas
Artifacts (4)
4 Mishra’s Bauble
Instants (16)
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Mana Leak
1 Simic Charm
1 Lazotep Plating
1 Tarfire
4 Serum Visions
2 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Slash
Lands (18)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Island
1 Forest
3 Damping Sphere
2 Blood Moon
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Stubborn Denial
http://modernnexus.com/planes-talkers-war-spark-spoiler-review/
Since Colorless is forced to run really narrow stuff in the side because it has no colors, the spells we do employ tend to have very specific uses, and they will definitely underperform if those uses are not understood by the pilot. It sounds like you haven't actually tried GS in these matchups with its purpose in mind. Jamming games is the best way to absorb this information, but if you're looking for a shortcut, read my articles.
I am not impressed with the Orb so far and have cut it for a second Gut.