Bauble, Thicket, and Knight open up a huge packet of draw selection without having to play slow and dubious cards like Courser of Kruphix or Domri Rade. You could, in theory, play Tireless Tracker over Vivien but I really like Vivien right now -- just as an aggressively slotted card.
I still think Faithless Looting is better than Magmatic Insight because you get to draw first and you're not required to pitch a land, in case you have excess discard spells for example.
You're probably right in this instance -- pitching useless discard is very powerful and the selection that looting gives you is very important.
Mainly, I am interested in a card like Insight because it maintains CA neutrality rather than "3 cards to get 2 cards first half and 2 cards to get 2 cards second half". I built in a manabase with 21 lands with Insight in mind but maybe it's just not powerful enough.
Ore-Scale Guardian has to have some amount of "build-around" otherwise it just ends up being clunky and expensive. It may take some tinkering to get the grease right.
Looting off a fetchland can get you to 3 lands in your GY on turn 1. Then a turn 2 GQ your red source to get a mountain lets you turn 2 Ore-Scale. Everything about this line looks bad and it is bad. However, how fast you can cast Ore-Scale is important as it applies a lot of pressure. Turn 3 is more typical and easier on the mana base.
I've tested Wrenn and Six in JDS, and from my testing results, I think Wrenn and Six is actually maindeckable.
Wrenn and Six was a card that I was looking at in this set for JDS and other green decks. Cards like this might also open up running a higher land count with Magmatic Insight, Ghost Quarter, and Ore-Scale Guardian. This forces the deck into a BR splash G direction but we might be fine with that. Plus, I've always wanted to sideboard Tireless Tracker in JDS.
I don't like drawing cards all that much -- outside of maybe a Chandra. I prefer killing my opponent before they stick a teferi for enough turns to make my card draw irrelevant.
Your card advantage won't beat a Teferi that remains in play for multiple turns. That's a fact.
Do we want to talk about Esper Superfriends here as well? I'd be happy to have the threads be the same place rather than continue to have threads thrown every which way whenever a variant comes out.
Also don't completely get what Bolt Bend is for is this suppose to be for targeted removal and discard?
Do we have a sideboard guide?
and do we know which matchups are bad for us?
1. There is substantially less mono-blue in the format. Yes.
2. Bolt Bend is for red removal decks and for Esper Midrange.
3. I do not have a SB guide. It'll be out of date within 48 hrs. The meta is changing quickly right now.
4. I think the Bant decks are a bad matchup. I also think white weenies is a bad matchup. Jeskai Superfriends is... ok? Esper Superfriends is very bad. Kaya's Wrath plus the The Elderspell is a huge beating. We're much better against Esper Control with our walker package but my suspicion is that Esper Control will be completely replaced with Esper Walkers.
Anyway, here's a list that I started to work on to help fight the superfriends menace:
Outside of the Elves thang, is anything glaringly wrong?
I'd consider more mana in the form of more lands in this deck since you're not running elves. At least 24. They can be in the form of Mobilized District, if you like.
Tibalt looks bad but is very good against a lot of the decks right now. Superfriends, Esper, UB, etc. He even makes idiots that block pretty well for 1/1s. The fact that he blocks lifegain from Contempt and Enter the God-Eternals is huge. He's also another body to carry Sarkhan animations -- maybe the strongest part of this deck.
Thorn Lieutenant is good because he's quite the tempo snag against decks rocking cheap removal. He's a bit slower than Zhur-Taa but that guy dies to a sneeze so...
Took this list to the SCG Open Syracuse this weekend.
Ended up 75th, 11 places out of prize. List was ok. Sideboard was bad.
My losses were to:
Bant Oketra x2
Jeskai Superfriends
Bant Flash
Bant Nexus
Esper Midrange
Wins were against:
GR Ramp
Jeskai Superfriends
Esper Midrange x2
Esper Control
UG Mass Manipulation
UR Phoenix x2
Mono Red
Can you elaborate on the sideboard choices? Especially Ravager Wurm, Bolt Bend and the lack of Carnage Tyrant and Dire Fleet Daredevil. I've been trying small Vivien as well but she seems to fizzle often.
Bolt Bend is a weird one. It's good in most midrange mirrors. The only times you want 2x copies is on the play against mono-red (it's great for their sandbagged lava coil) and on the play against midrange esper. Otherwise, I sideboard in one copy. I don't bring it in against control unless you think you'll get them. Sometimes I board it in vs. Superfriends but I'm not sold. In place of Bolt Bend, you could play Dire Fleet Daredevil. However, I think that card is awfully slow. Carnage Tyrant also fits this description against control. You need cheap impactful spells against Esper, not slow ones that get Thought Erasured on turn 4 or 5. Carny T is just a tad slow for my preferences.
Small Vivien is a good card but I don't like it with how light I am on creatures.
I used to board out all my mana dorks in prior lists against control. I now board out 4 mana dorks and leave two in. You still want a reasonable amount of mana sources for your GCG or Sarkhans.
Tibalt looks bad but is very good against a lot of the decks right now. Superfriends, Esper, UB, etc. He even makes idiots that block pretty well for 1/1s. The fact that he blocks lifegain from Contempt and Enter the God-Eternals is huge. He's also another body to carry Sarkhan animations -- maybe the strongest part of this deck.
Thorn Lieutenant is good because he's quite the tempo snag against decks rocking cheap removal. He's a bit slower than Zhur-Taa but that guy dies to a sneeze so...
SB is still in flux. t2 Thought Erasure into t3 Mortify was making Pelt Collector aggro unplayble -- which is odd except for the fact that you'd often be stranded with 1/1 Pelt Collectors regularly. I've like Paradise Druid rather a lot -- especially since it can blank removal the turn it comes into play ala Gruul Spellbreaker.
I don't like Ripjaw Raptor except for against RDW. I'm not sure what I'd play in it's place. Radha and 4cmc Domri ain't it.
I don't lose many games where I resolve Bolt Bend. I've Bolt Bended quite a few Teferi tucks, Bolas downticks, Lava Coils -- just plain nasty. It's very good against midrange and tap out control where you have targets for their removal. Less so against Esper control.
Rhythm of the Wild is better than Domri, Anarch of Bolas as it gives a +1/+1 counter not +1/0 buff so it stays if Rhythm of the Wild is removed from the field. The counter works with proliferate and doesn't have to be triggered to make your creature spells uncounterable. It can't be attacked by creatures. It can give haste if you need that instead of a counter. It just gives you more options than Domri, Anarch of Bolas
One of these has utility as a removal spell. The other does not.
I'm waiting for the top 1k Mythic players to drop. I was #378 in Bo3 before I hopped off the ladder for work two hours before the end of the season. Here's hoping I didn't get bumped.
I don't love the mana but Mobilized District is really good. This probably isn't the best Mobilized District deck but I figured I'd give you guys the heads up concerning the power level of this card.
Thrash // Threat has been utilized because it's a removal spell/threat (like the name lol).
Both sides are very medium, with the removal spell being better than the threat.
It's a fundamentally weak card that we have played in the past to fill spots in the curve without being too narrow. I'm glad that I don't have to sleeve it up anymore. The meta might shift to a spot where it's a B- card again, rather than a C- but that may never occur.
We play Voice of Resurgence so... like... we play loads of cards like that.
Here's a 75:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Gruul Spellbreaker
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Dromoka's Command
3x Path to Exile
2x Wrenn and Six
2x Vivien, Champion of the Wilds
4x Windswepth Heath
2x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Tranquil Thicket
1x Declaration in Stone
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Gaddock Teeg
3x Knight of Autumn
2x Kozilek's Return
1x Shenanigans
2x Remorseful Cleric
2x Magus of the Moon
1x Dromoka's Command
Bauble, Thicket, and Knight open up a huge packet of draw selection without having to play slow and dubious cards like Courser of Kruphix or Domri Rade. You could, in theory, play Tireless Tracker over Vivien but I really like Vivien right now -- just as an aggressively slotted card.
You're probably right in this instance -- pitching useless discard is very powerful and the selection that looting gives you is very important.
Mainly, I am interested in a card like Insight because it maintains CA neutrality rather than "3 cards to get 2 cards first half and 2 cards to get 2 cards second half". I built in a manabase with 21 lands with Insight in mind but maybe it's just not powerful enough.
Ore-Scale Guardian has to have some amount of "build-around" otherwise it just ends up being clunky and expensive. It may take some tinkering to get the grease right.
Looting off a fetchland can get you to 3 lands in your GY on turn 1. Then a turn 2 GQ your red source to get a mountain lets you turn 2 Ore-Scale. Everything about this line looks bad and it is bad. However, how fast you can cast Ore-Scale is important as it applies a lot of pressure. Turn 3 is more typical and easier on the mana base.
Wrenn and Six was a card that I was looking at in this set for JDS and other green decks. Cards like this might also open up running a higher land count with Magmatic Insight, Ghost Quarter, and Ore-Scale Guardian. This forces the deck into a BR splash G direction but we might be fine with that. Plus, I've always wanted to sideboard Tireless Tracker in JDS.
Anyway, here's a spitballed 75:
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Ore-Scale Guardian
4x Street Wraith
Spells (24)
4x Magmatic Insight
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Fatal Push
3x Temur Battle Rage
1x Dismember
2x Lava Dart
1x Assassin's Trophy
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Bloodstaned Mire
2x Stomping Ground
2x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Nurturing Peatland
2x Wrenn and Six
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Dismember
1x Assassin's Trophy
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Collective Brutality
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Alpine Moon
1x Unravel the Aether
Your card advantage won't beat a Teferi that remains in play for multiple turns. That's a fact.
Let me know your thoughts.
--lugger
1. There is substantially less mono-blue in the format. Yes.
2. Bolt Bend is for red removal decks and for Esper Midrange.
3. I do not have a SB guide. It'll be out of date within 48 hrs. The meta is changing quickly right now.
4. I think the Bant decks are a bad matchup. I also think white weenies is a bad matchup. Jeskai Superfriends is... ok? Esper Superfriends is very bad. Kaya's Wrath plus the The Elderspell is a huge beating. We're much better against Esper Control with our walker package but my suspicion is that Esper Control will be completely replaced with Esper Walkers.
Anyway, here's a list that I started to work on to help fight the superfriends menace:
4x Growth-Chamber Guardian
4x Thorn Lieutenant
2x Paradise Druid
4x Gruul Spellbreaker
2x Legion Warboss
4x Rekindling Phoenix
2x Vraska, Golgari Queen
3x Sarkhan the Masterless
3x Shock
2x Assassin's Trophy
4x Stomping Ground
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Blood Crypt
3x Dragonskull Summit
1x Woodland Cemetery
4x Forest
Vraska kills all the 3cmc walkers -- which is big game given how good Saheeli is against us.
Jeskai Superfriends usually runs 0 basics. Keep this in mind when you are on the play and have a turn 2 Assassin's Trophy.
I'd consider more mana in the form of more lands in this deck since you're not running elves. At least 24. They can be in the form of Mobilized District, if you like.
Took this list to the SCG Open Syracuse this weekend.
Ended up 75th, 11 places out of prize. List was ok. Sideboard was bad.
My losses were to:
Bant Oketra x2
Jeskai Superfriends
Bant Flash
Bant Nexus
Esper Midrange
Wins were against:
GR Ramp
Jeskai Superfriends
Esper Midrange x2
Esper Control
UG Mass Manipulation
UR Phoenix x2
Mono Red
Ravager Wurm is for the green midrange mirror.
Bolt Bend is a weird one. It's good in most midrange mirrors. The only times you want 2x copies is on the play against mono-red (it's great for their sandbagged lava coil) and on the play against midrange esper. Otherwise, I sideboard in one copy. I don't bring it in against control unless you think you'll get them. Sometimes I board it in vs. Superfriends but I'm not sold. In place of Bolt Bend, you could play Dire Fleet Daredevil. However, I think that card is awfully slow. Carnage Tyrant also fits this description against control. You need cheap impactful spells against Esper, not slow ones that get Thought Erasured on turn 4 or 5. Carny T is just a tad slow for my preferences.
Small Vivien is a good card but I don't like it with how light I am on creatures.
I used to board out all my mana dorks in prior lists against control. I now board out 4 mana dorks and leave two in. You still want a reasonable amount of mana sources for your GCG or Sarkhans.
See finalized list below:
4x Thorn Lieutenant
4x Growth-Chamber Guardian
2x Paradise Druid
4x Gruul Spellbreaker
4x Rekindling Phoenix
2x Shock
2x Lava Coil
2x Collision // Colossus
1x Banefire
2x Tibalt, Rakish Instigator
3x Sarkhan the Masterless
4x Stomping Ground
4x Rootbound Crag
1x Mobilized District
8x Forest
6x Mountain
2x Bolt Bend
1x Vivien Reid
1x Ravager Wurm
4x Cindervines
3x Fiery Cannonade
1x Lava Coil
2x Legion Warboss
1x Banefire
Tibalt looks bad but is very good against a lot of the decks right now. Superfriends, Esper, UB, etc. He even makes idiots that block pretty well for 1/1s. The fact that he blocks lifegain from Contempt and Enter the God-Eternals is huge. He's also another body to carry Sarkhan animations -- maybe the strongest part of this deck.
Thorn Lieutenant is good because he's quite the tempo snag against decks rocking cheap removal. He's a bit slower than Zhur-Taa but that guy dies to a sneeze so...
4x Paradise Druid
4x Growth-Chamber Guardian
4x Gruul Spellbreaker
4x Rekindling Phoenix
3x Ripjaw Raptor
3x Domri, Anarch of Bolas
3x Sarkhan the Masterless
2x Lava Coil
1x Collision // Colossus
1x Banefire
8x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
4x Rootbound Crag
1x Mobilized District
1x Banefire
1x Vivien Reid
4x Cindervines
3x Fiery Cannonade
1x Ravager Wurm
2x Lava Coil
1x Vivien, Champion of the Wilds
2x Bolt Bend
SB is still in flux. t2 Thought Erasure into t3 Mortify was making Pelt Collector aggro unplayble -- which is odd except for the fact that you'd often be stranded with 1/1 Pelt Collectors regularly. I've like Paradise Druid rather a lot -- especially since it can blank removal the turn it comes into play ala Gruul Spellbreaker.
I don't like Ripjaw Raptor except for against RDW. I'm not sure what I'd play in it's place. Radha and 4cmc Domri ain't it.
I don't lose many games where I resolve Bolt Bend. I've Bolt Bended quite a few Teferi tucks, Bolas downticks, Lava Coils -- just plain nasty. It's very good against midrange and tap out control where you have targets for their removal. Less so against Esper control.
One of these has utility as a removal spell. The other does not.
Do with that what you will.
Here's where I stopped:
4x Pelt Collector
4x Zhur-Taa Goblin
4x Growth-Chamber Guardian
4x Gruul Spellbreaker
2x Jadelight Ranger
4x Rekindling Phoenix
3x Lava Coil
2x Collision // Colossus
3x Domri, Anarch of Bolas
3x Sarkhan the Masterless
4x Rootbound Crag
8x Forest
6x Mountain
1x Mobilized District
1x Lava Coil
3x Chandra's Pyrohelix
1x Vivien, Champion of the Wilds
1x Vivien Reid
2x Banefire
4x Cindervines
1x Ravager Wurm
2x Vraska, Swarm's Eminence
I don't love the mana but Mobilized District is really good. This probably isn't the best Mobilized District deck but I figured I'd give you guys the heads up concerning the power level of this card.
Both sides are very medium, with the removal spell being better than the threat.
It's a fundamentally weak card that we have played in the past to fill spots in the curve without being too narrow. I'm glad that I don't have to sleeve it up anymore. The meta might shift to a spot where it's a B- card again, rather than a C- but that may never occur.
Glad to have new users. We got the thread to the right place regardless.
Good luck developing the list!
-- lugger