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  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Yep, and I hope Modern Horizons helps us here
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Twin is not the answer. A "I win" button is not he answer, and I'm going to leave it at that.

    Good answers to threats is the solution to make Modern great.

    Control is totally fine, as it has always been, you are 100% correct. It has a high conversion rate, good win rates, etc.

    I think the important thing when discussing modern control is how the answers line up with the treats in Modern, which is what I think people really are complaining about when they complain about control being bad.

    There was a great post on reddit:
    "There's nothing unfair about fast mana inherently...The issue is when your accelerated threats can't be effectively.If you gain too much speed, then card advantage is irrelevant because you've won the game. This why Faithless Looting initially started to creep up in GDS. Card advantage became much less important than card quality..."

    Faithless Looting is not an inherently overpowered Magic card. Faithless Looting being SO good right now is a symptom of Modern's problems, not the cause.

    Answers to threats need to line up with threats themselves. When we are forces to play something like Anger of the Gods or Terminus, cards that are not easy to fit into decks, of course its going to heavily affect deck building, and in turn the meta itself.

    Side note: i kind of find it funny that Looting is so good now. When I first joined mtg, people would try and fit in looting into some red decks. I would call it a noob trap card and laugh. Nowadays it is at the forefront of the meta game lmao
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 21/01/2019)
    The back end of Looting then comes down to deck building and what the deck is trying to do, which doesn't have to do with color. a 3 mana draw two discard two is not a unbalanced card.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 21/01/2019)
    I don't really agree. If Faithless Looting didn't exist, and only Careful Study did, would there be a big difference?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 21/01/2019)
    If Ponder was legal in Modern, would it even benefit the fair blue based decks? I really think thinking about card selection tools based on color just doesn't make sense. How Faithless Looting works in a red deck compared to Preordain in a blue deck, they are just so different. Direct comparison of those 2 types of cards don't work, and we talked about this before a million times.

    The "blue doesn't even have the best card selection tool" is completely wrong. Faithless Looting does what Red does, digs for cards on that turn, not caring about card advantage. Compare that to Serum Visions, and if we are talking about card selection in general, then Serum Visions is actually better! The only difference is that Looting does it right here right now, while Serum Visions you have to wait a turn to do it, and you get the benefit of +0 card advantage rather than -1. Serum Visions digs 3, while Looting digs only 2.

    So if we throw out the color based argument, now we are left with the same question of if they would even play Ponder/Preordain in the decks you really want them to play in. GDS and Phoenix will undoubtedly benefit the most, alongside Storm. So would the meta even be different?

    Lastly no on talks about the fact that Blue control decks have a very solid conversion rate and MWP out dated but the only one i could find for now. Does blue control decks even need help?

    The only reason I want Preordain and even Ponder unbanned is because I like powerful cards and think the original reason they are on the banned list is outdated and nonsensical. The real factor is the implications on the current meta and possible powering up of already the top decks of Phoenix and GDS.

    As for Stirrings, LSV but it best when he said that there's 4 main decks that play it (Tron, Amulet, Hardened Scales, Prison) and all are vastly different in play patterns, which seems very reasonably and fine.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    It was pretty much 100% Scrap Trawler and the slight innovations of Nass to include stuff like buried ruin, inventors fair and EE. Thats why I Think Scrap Trawler should be banned because it's the real reason the deck is busted. The reason why it goes infinite and the reason why it's resilient to all non persistent grave hate.

    Old eggs could exist without both KCI and Scrap Trawler but is no where as good
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the January 21, 2019, announcement?
    Quote from purklefluff »
    even though I own the deck, I'd be fine with a KCI ban.

    stirrings though? that'd be a *****ty move. there are a bunch of completely reasonable decks that would be blind-sided by such a ban, it wouldn't be a sensible choice.


    I agree with this. I think Wellspring is a much fairer ban because it will only hurt KCI and KCI alone.

    I think Scrap Trawler should be the ban. Force them to go back to Eggs style
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    I don't think Twin talk should be off limits, but it needs to be stifled some tbh. Theres many times we begin talking about something on this thread and someone mentions Twin, and the same points come up over and over and warps the whole conversation. Things like KCI ban discussion, "winners meta" discussion, data points about Stirrings, etc, gets drowned out once Twin gets mentioned because a lot of people see it as The Solution to "fix Modern. I think it should be moved to a separate topic because it really has become its own topic that is outside the current meta and future of Modern discussion
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from gkourou »
    Matt Nass is streaming at twitch right now. He is talking a lot about KCI. I asked him what does he think about a potential banning, and he said that "it's natural that the deck is going to be banned. I am not certain, but I assume that's what's going to happen".
    Some folks asked him about Opal or Stirrings and he said "Diversity is why you are playing modern. if you ban one of those cards, you are deleting this aspect of the game."
    He also thinks Trawler and Wellspring are interesting bannings and that's the right ban. All in all, he is admitting a ban needs to happen. Given that he is a pro who is earning money from the deck, it takes a lot of courage to admit that on camera.

    Source: https://www.twitch.tv/matthewlnass

    Do you have the timestamp when he talks about the potential banning of KCI
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from MrTzoulis »
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    [quote from="MrTzoulis »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/801804-the-state-of-modern-thread-b-r-26-11-2018?comment=1888"]BGx also has that T1 threat and we know the numbers on that matchup as being even.

    Other than that, Twin was hiding Blue's (and the format's as a whole) woes with a mask of "interactivity" that was toxic to better cards entering the format via either unbannings or new printings and you people keep ignoring that.

    This was a super important thing to happen from the Twin Ban. Blue just was so bad if you exclude the Twin decks at the time, and removing Twin showed Wotc it needed help. If Twin sacrificed itself for the color BLue, then tbh I'm fine with it being resurrected by Wotc
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Classic Eggs could easily exist even without KCI. It would use the Faith's Reward loop like the original did with Second Sunrise. It would be tier 2 at best, but it hasn't been innovated recently due to the rise of current Ironworks. We have gotten a lot more tools like Whir of Invention, so who know, it could be a decent deck. Can't foresee it being tier 1 any time soon at all though. I don't even think Second Sunrise version was tier 1, and the card itself wasn't banned due to power level/ meta share reasonings.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    The main deck is super resistant outside of Stony Silence and Rest in Peace/ Leyline of the Void
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from 13055 »
    If just KCI/Trawler takes a hit, we still are in the world where colorless decks (which have leaned towards combo lately) still have a dig-5 1 mana spell, which is so far above what the rest of the format gets in terms of digging power. I think WotC is more preoccupied with the simple fact of KCI's dominance, but I personally believe it would behoove them to try to take a broader picture of the format, which I hope would involve taking a look at not just the broken engine parts, but the enablers which allow decks to be so much more consistent than the "fair" competitors of the format.

    Well I am an advocate for unbanning of Preordain. Just because a card is powerful, in the case for Stirrings, doesn't mean they should ban it. We need to look at the data, and if it is drastically different without Ironworks, then we advocate to ban the problematic card directly, which would be KCI or Trawler
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    UR Phoenix won though, so I think KCI is safe. I've heard from some people from my local store that Faithless Looting is more of a problem than Ancient Stirrings. I personally don't think so. Faithless Looting is at least somewhat hurt by grave hate while Ancient Stirrings is hurt by … super quick goldfish decks. I will say that Faithless Looting is definitely a hell of a card though!

    Speaking purely for GP T8 numbers and nothing else, Looting isn't nearly as prevalent as Stirrings throughout 2018. If we compare all Lootings decks throughout the entire year to all Stirrings decks over the same time period, we find Stirrings at 27.3% of the T8 decks and Looting at 14.8%. SV/Opt decks are 21%. If you exclude the Team and PT events and look just at individual GP, it's 29.8% Stirrings, 13.5% Looting, and 21.1% SV/Opt. There's just no annual perspective where Looting is dominant at this level.

    If we eliminate KCI from that data set, would it change drastically? The reason I ask is that if KCI/Trawler is banned and not Stirrings, then that might be a better outcome
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    We have enough removal tbh. The two major ones that Legacy has is STP and Council's Judgment. I think the answer would be to have better counterspells. IMO its all relative, and Mana Leak was probably deemed to powerful due to other cards like teferi existing in the Standard format right now. It also doesnt help that Mana Leak alongside Ponder and Delver is still fresh in Wotc's memory
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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