I think White has options with Test of Endurance and there are the mill strategies, which end up in Blue and Black. So I really think Green may be nearly unplayable, but potentially splashing for card draw?
There's been two Ravnica blocks, the recent Dragons allied color pair set, other sets like Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, and Innistrad, so here's my question: What are the best "representations" of the color pairs in Magic history? Is Silumgar between than Dimir? Do you prefer Lorwyn's Elves to Golgari? Rakdos verus Innistrad's Vampires? And what about the Gods from Theros?
What defines the best? Whatever you want it to be.
Who would I be to not try to put together my own list. I've only been playing since Return to Ravnica and I don't have much of a deep knowledge of Magic history, so in a lot of these I'm defaulting to Ravnica and looking for input from others.
WU: Azorius. When you're represented by a Senate, the epitome of filibustering and bureaucracy, it's hard to beat the feel of White-Blue's controlling influence.
WB: Orzhov. If White-Black is supposed to feel like the mafia, I think Orzhov has this down better than anyone else.
UB: I actually think that a color pair that's supposed to value knowledge above all else, and looking for it in the most secretive and subtle ways, Lorwyn's Fairies strike me as better fitting than Dimir. Phenax from Theros is a close second, perhaps because I associate Ashiok with the block. Manipulation of dreams seems very Blue-Black.
UR: Defaulting again to Izzet, but I think that's because of a lack of any strong competitor. This color pair seems undeveloped, even in Theros it focused more on spells than anything else.
BR: I actually think the Vampires from Innistrad are such a creative twist on the normal vampires in Magic that they stand out more than anything like the Rakdos or Kologan of other sets. They make Black-Red feel passionate and impulsive in an appealing way. Rakdos were supposed to be entertainers, but that never felt well conveyed. Innistrad's Vampires will captivate you while they kill you.
BG: I really like Lorwyn's Elves and Shadormoor's Treefolk as alternate looks at the Black-Green color pair, but the Golgari emphasis on plant zombies is hard to beat. Maybe Black-Green stands out for having the widest level of representations. What really unites the Elves from Lorwyn and the plant zombies from Ravnica? I don't know.
RG: A heavy hitting category. Xenagos? Werewolves? Gruul? Who's the craziest? I actually think that Atarka may be the best right now because the idea of DRAGONS that are hungry and need to be fed seems the most Red-Green. Doesn't get more simple than that.
RW: I fell in love with the Red-White Defenders Archetype in Conspiracy, but I don't think that fits well here. Boros is the clearest example, it's defined the martial approach of the two colors.
GW: If the two colors are supposed to embrace their spiritual side, the Selseyna seem the better pick, but I do like how Dromoka has turned out in Dragons of Tarkir. The anti-necromancy perspective of Dromoka and the transformation of Abzan seems flavorful.
GU: Can I just say Sagu Mauler? I think Simic Version 1.0 were cool but a bad representation of this color pair, it felt far more Blue than Green-Blue. I think the color pair needs something that's deep and reflective about the world as it is, but still interesting in knowledge. Kruphix from Theros is my nomination.
Curious if anyone knows about formats where there are no creatures allowed, or other spells that produce creatures or turn into creatures. Literally just a Wizard's duel between two spell casters. I suspect it wouldn't be as much fun as Magic is, the creatures are part of the main appeal, but I'm very interested in how the format would be "solved" for the best style decks. Would it just be a bunch of different Burn decks with some level of Control to muddle up their opponent's spells? Heavier emphasis on alternate win conditions? Interested in this more as a thought experiment than a real format.
Seems like mono-color or allied color pairs are more likely to always be "a thing." But I've only been playing (for the second time) since Return to Ravnica.
Who's battling the Eldrazi for control of Zendikar? We just completed a block saving Ugin, so you'd think Ugin is about to plop down and start storming off Dragons to fight the Eldrazi. But would more Dragons following the most Dragon set that was ever Dragoned be seen as too much by Wizards?
Or maybe instead Ugin + Nahiri = Large Colorless Mecha themed cards taking down the Eldrazi?
I was listening to the latest Constructed Resources and got to the point where Marshall and Eric were talking about how some standard players are focused on what is "the best" archetype/deck out there, and will bounce from mono-red, to Abzan, to Esper, to whatever is next. But you've also got players at your FNM who are just in Magic for fun and they are always playing whatever the latest incarnation of Red Burn or White-Blue Control is. And those are two standard standard archetypes. And so, usually, is Blue-Black Control. But when Siege Rhino and Sandsteppe Citadel rotates out I question if the idea of an Abzan Control or Aggro deck really exists anymore. And while I've seen some locals at my game store play a budget White-Black Warriors standard deck, that's not usually the archetype available if you're doing White-Black.
So the idea is there is a spectrum for Standard Archetypes. Some Archetypes are so fundamental to how Wizards develops a color you could always play it if you wanted, looking at each new set for the expected cards to fit the needs of the deck. So if I'm playing mono-Red I'm looking at what new direct damage spells have been printed and the aggressive creatures. If Wizards totally stopped printing those cards for Red it would be a problem. Same with some of the basic allied color controls, White-Blue or Blue-Black, you're looking at whatever is the latest counterspells, removal, bounce, and the next bomb creature to finish the game.
And then you have build around me Archetypes like Chromanticore-Soulflayer. Could see a Soulflayer deck continue depending on what we get with Zendikar, but it's certainly an Archetype that's specific to the block.
What are some other Archetypes that always seem to be a possibility, even if they aren't always the best out there. What are the standard Archetypes that are going to collapse with the next rotation?
So this may be something that should be filed under "Cute in limited, but too janky to build a deck around," but I had success at my recent FMN with a Blue-Red deck that was essentially removal and burn, but there was one combo that I pulled off that just felt like something I'd want to do more of. I ended up playing four Impact Tremors and several of the manifest cards from Fate Reforged. One game, I cast Lose Calm on an opponent's Jeskai Infiltrator, swung, and then manifested both the Infiltrator and another card under my control with three Impact Tremors in play. Got to keep the Infiltrator, next turn went in with Taigam's Strike, unflipped the Infiltrator, manifest again, damage again with Impact Tremors. The rebounded Taigam's Strike the next turn was the win. It felt like a U-R Control deck could control the board enough so that this simple combo could end up winning the game. I'd play with my own Jeskai Infiltrator, think about other ways to get him through, and depend on the manifested cards to slow down the board and do damage with Impact Tremors. Not a totally dominating deck, but could be fun. Could also play with Keranos, God of Storms to build inevitability in the late game.
In most games your win condition is getting to unflip a Sagu Mauler with several Trail of Mystery in play. Whisperwood Elemental would fit thematically, but it feels like it's more of an engine for overwhelming with lots of manifests. I like Stratus Dancer as an addition. Might swap out the Den Protector, the Deathmist Raptor is good enough at bringing itself back.
Working on updating a Blue-Green Morph based on Saito's Morph Festival deck, but adding new Dragons of Tarkir cards. The focus is a simple aggressive deck, ramp quickly into morph creatures backed up by a handful of morph supporting enchantments (and artifacts), unmorphing for value when needed.
Would want around 8 total, I am debating cutting the Deceivers for two more Rattleclaw Mystics. I like that the Mystics can be played as morphs, but I also think the Deceivers can be another option as early blockers.
Big fan of the Raptor, probably the biggest addition Dragons added to this deck, along with Obsuring AEther. But does the deck need four more beaters when Sagu Mauler is such a great attacker? Fewer Raptors could make room for more of the value morphs, below.
Playing the Aven for tempo, Charger and Savants because they can be easy to flip and work with the combos from the enchantments. I like the Spellsnatcher and Protector, but I am also debating if I want to main deck Salt Road Ambushers and Ainok Survivalist.
I'm thinking Red-Blue is an undervalued color pair right now because everyone seems to be drafting allied color pairs. Could also see Green-Blue working well.
There are twenty two gold cards in Dragons. For the most part, you're either going to open them or not see them. In my experience people are picking them when they open them.
Although the Dragon broods are allied color pairs, there isn't much forcing an allied color pair deck.
But so far I keep playing against allied color pairs. Red-Black and Red-Green are particularly popular, both played aggressively.
Drafting an enemy color pair would give you access to more of the mechanics in the set. The set is very aggressive, so access to dash is important. So is trying to put down early creatures to stop the dash decks.
With Blue undervalued in Dragons, it could mean that Blue is open enough to pick up the decent blue cards to back up your main color, and also position you to grab the good Blue cards when you get to Fate. Much better Blue there.
Black-White Warriors is tempting but I think it's too hard to work around, if it happens it happens, but it mostly won't.
I have both of the Impact Tremors in play, and an Elusive Spellfist. Cast Lose Calm on their Jeskai Infiltrator. Swing and activate the Infiltrator's manifest, putting two manifest cards into play, triggering the Impact Tremors for a total of four times, and keeping both manifest cards, since there's no Jeskai Infiltrator to give back to him. Eight damage in one turn, and I've totally changed the board in my favor.
Also had a Living Lore in the deck and wanted to use it with the red damage spells, but never was able to pull off the trick.
Noticing that people aren't drafting the enemy color pairs that much in Dragons, even though there's really only 22 gold cards that would push the allied color pairs, and if you don't open them in your pack you're probably not going to get passed them. Also Red is amazing.
OK, so Deathmist Raptor is just begging to be put into a Morph theme deck with Secret Plans and Trail of Mystery. Multiple copies can fire off so that flipping one is returning others from your graveyard. Probably throwing in Ghostfire Blade and Sagu Mauler. This is just a brainstorm I've had after looking at Raptor, what are some other thoughts?
What defines the best? Whatever you want it to be.
Who would I be to not try to put together my own list. I've only been playing since Return to Ravnica and I don't have much of a deep knowledge of Magic history, so in a lot of these I'm defaulting to Ravnica and looking for input from others.
WU: Azorius. When you're represented by a Senate, the epitome of filibustering and bureaucracy, it's hard to beat the feel of White-Blue's controlling influence.
WB: Orzhov. If White-Black is supposed to feel like the mafia, I think Orzhov has this down better than anyone else.
UB: I actually think that a color pair that's supposed to value knowledge above all else, and looking for it in the most secretive and subtle ways, Lorwyn's Fairies strike me as better fitting than Dimir. Phenax from Theros is a close second, perhaps because I associate Ashiok with the block. Manipulation of dreams seems very Blue-Black.
UR: Defaulting again to Izzet, but I think that's because of a lack of any strong competitor. This color pair seems undeveloped, even in Theros it focused more on spells than anything else.
BR: I actually think the Vampires from Innistrad are such a creative twist on the normal vampires in Magic that they stand out more than anything like the Rakdos or Kologan of other sets. They make Black-Red feel passionate and impulsive in an appealing way. Rakdos were supposed to be entertainers, but that never felt well conveyed. Innistrad's Vampires will captivate you while they kill you.
BG: I really like Lorwyn's Elves and Shadormoor's Treefolk as alternate looks at the Black-Green color pair, but the Golgari emphasis on plant zombies is hard to beat. Maybe Black-Green stands out for having the widest level of representations. What really unites the Elves from Lorwyn and the plant zombies from Ravnica? I don't know.
RG: A heavy hitting category. Xenagos? Werewolves? Gruul? Who's the craziest? I actually think that Atarka may be the best right now because the idea of DRAGONS that are hungry and need to be fed seems the most Red-Green. Doesn't get more simple than that.
RW: I fell in love with the Red-White Defenders Archetype in Conspiracy, but I don't think that fits well here. Boros is the clearest example, it's defined the martial approach of the two colors.
GW: If the two colors are supposed to embrace their spiritual side, the Selseyna seem the better pick, but I do like how Dromoka has turned out in Dragons of Tarkir. The anti-necromancy perspective of Dromoka and the transformation of Abzan seems flavorful.
GU: Can I just say Sagu Mauler? I think Simic Version 1.0 were cool but a bad representation of this color pair, it felt far more Blue than Green-Blue. I think the color pair needs something that's deep and reflective about the world as it is, but still interesting in knowledge. Kruphix from Theros is my nomination.
Or maybe instead Ugin + Nahiri = Large Colorless Mecha themed cards taking down the Eldrazi?
So the idea is there is a spectrum for Standard Archetypes. Some Archetypes are so fundamental to how Wizards develops a color you could always play it if you wanted, looking at each new set for the expected cards to fit the needs of the deck. So if I'm playing mono-Red I'm looking at what new direct damage spells have been printed and the aggressive creatures. If Wizards totally stopped printing those cards for Red it would be a problem. Same with some of the basic allied color controls, White-Blue or Blue-Black, you're looking at whatever is the latest counterspells, removal, bounce, and the next bomb creature to finish the game.
And then you have build around me Archetypes like Chromanticore-Soulflayer. Could see a Soulflayer deck continue depending on what we get with Zendikar, but it's certainly an Archetype that's specific to the block.
What are some other Archetypes that always seem to be a possibility, even if they aren't always the best out there. What are the standard Archetypes that are going to collapse with the next rotation?
Anyone else think that Ankylosaurus just feels RW?
Would be disappointed in a Dinosaurs set if they didn't have some big iconic creatures, don't know if it would be a gold set or not though.
14 Morph Supporting Spells
4 Secret Plans
4 Trail of Mystery
4 Obscuring AEther
2 Ghostfire Blade
The Obsuring Aether also counts for the ramp side ...
8 Ramps/Mana Dorks
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Rattleclaw Mystic
2 Qarsi Deceiver
Would want around 8 total, I am debating cutting the Deceivers for two more Rattleclaw Mystics. I like that the Mystics can be played as morphs, but I also think the Deceivers can be another option as early blockers.
8 Morph Beaters
4 Sagu Mauler
4 Deathmist Raptor
Big fan of the Raptor, probably the biggest addition Dragons added to this deck, along with Obsuring AEther. But does the deck need four more beaters when Sagu Mauler is such a great attacker? Fewer Raptors could make room for more of the value morphs, below.
15 Value Morphs
4 Icefeather Aven
3 Temur Charger
3 Dragon's Eye Savants
3 Den Protector
2 Kheru Spellsnatcher
Playing the Aven for tempo, Charger and Savants because they can be easy to flip and work with the combos from the enchantments. I like the Spellsnatcher and Protector, but I am also debating if I want to main deck Salt Road Ambushers and Ainok Survivalist.
21 Lands
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Yavimaya Coast
7 Forest
6 Island
Sideboard
Still working on this, would have Ainok Survivalist, maybe another Spellsnatcher. Ojutai Interceptor?
There are twenty two gold cards in Dragons. For the most part, you're either going to open them or not see them. In my experience people are picking them when they open them.
Although the Dragon broods are allied color pairs, there isn't much forcing an allied color pair deck.
But so far I keep playing against allied color pairs. Red-Black and Red-Green are particularly popular, both played aggressively.
Drafting an enemy color pair would give you access to more of the mechanics in the set. The set is very aggressive, so access to dash is important. So is trying to put down early creatures to stop the dash decks.
Blue generally is the weakest color, but it does have some early drops that are effective for blocking dash. Qarsi Deceiver, Elusive Spellfist, Sidisi's Faithful, and Updraft Elemental. Especially looking for something to block a Reckless Imp.
With Blue undervalued in Dragons, it could mean that Blue is open enough to pick up the decent blue cards to back up your main color, and also position you to grab the good Blue cards when you get to Fate. Much better Blue there.
Black-White Warriors is tempting but I think it's too hard to work around, if it happens it happens, but it mostly won't.
Less certain on White-Red and Black-Green.
I have both of the Impact Tremors in play, and an Elusive Spellfist. Cast Lose Calm on their Jeskai Infiltrator. Swing and activate the Infiltrator's manifest, putting two manifest cards into play, triggering the Impact Tremors for a total of four times, and keeping both manifest cards, since there's no Jeskai Infiltrator to give back to him. Eight damage in one turn, and I've totally changed the board in my favor.
Also had a Living Lore in the deck and wanted to use it with the red damage spells, but never was able to pull off the trick.
Noticing that people aren't drafting the enemy color pairs that much in Dragons, even though there's really only 22 gold cards that would push the allied color pairs, and if you don't open them in your pack you're probably not going to get passed them. Also Red is amazing.