Dominaria would be interesting, it certainly could fit into a storyline that looks more at Liliana and the Raven Man. But since Dominaria was a sort of "every plane" for the first several years of Magic, I wonder what would be the hook.
A Ravnica 3 works if they just want to do a gold block, although I'm curious how they would handle it with the modern 2 block design. Five allied, five enemies, or mix it up more?
Assuming that the next block is Amonkhet (reasonable) and the spoilers of Atlazan are real (reasonable?), that means WOTC will have had three new planes in a row (or new-ish since Kaladesh was just splashed in Origins). That puts a high likelihood on the next block to be a return to plane. But what plane?
It's too soon I feel to go back to Zendikar, Innistrad, or Kaladesh. I feel like Theros was left off as a real cliff-hanger with its endging, with Ashiok running around doing stuff, Elspeth having unresolved issues, etc. But it's also possible that by the time the post-Atlazan block rolls around there will be space for a strong multicolor block, which could bring in Alara.
I'm curious about people's thoughts because one guidepost I used to use, looking at how long returns took under the old system, don't make sense now with the two-block/no core structure moving the storyline along faster. I feel like we'll see a true return, not something like Regatha or Vryn that's only be touched on. Theros or Alara would be my top picks, with New Phyrexia/Mirrodin as the runner up. My only pause on the latter is I don't see how to fit it into the Nicol Bolas-centered storyline right now.
I'd assume it's a cruel game orchestrated by Bolas to find Planeswalkers, yes. But, it's more than likely he's not found much success. After all, if he had found some Worthy already, why haven't we seen them?
I don't know why but the idea of a cruel Hunger Games type test to find the Worthy reminded me a little bit of the first Magic book "Arena." Makes me suspect that as much as the plane believes the Worthy are lavished with rewards, bad things probably happen to them.
Based on the spoil of Saheeli's Artistry and what we know of Kaladesh from Magic Origins, it seems like a reasonable bet that she will be a planeswalker with some link to artifacts, potentially Thopter generation, and will be at least blue, but potentially more colors. Blue-Red is an easy guess just based on past Artifact synergies from Magic Origins, but Tezzeret was Blue-Black. At this point, it seems like there's no evidence for Saheeli's color identity beyond blue. Thoughts?
Joking with some friends about the sad state of Blue in the more recent blocks, I came up with the joke "Jace Beleren 2016: Make Blue Great Again." I like it, but I need a VP candidate. Who's the VP for Jace in a "Make Blue Great Again!" ticket. Thoughts?
Yeah, we've already seen all of the meld cards (there are three pairs total) so we can pretty much judge right now on how they will impact play. I don't see the Chittering Host doing much in Constructed. I wonder if Hanweir, the Writhing Township could fit into a Red Control in which it's the finisher, but the Haste ability from the land makes me feel like it's just a good enabler for a Red Aggro and the finisher may not be necessary that often. The Angels are very costly to cast.
Makes sense. For some of the color pairs the idea of a late-game manland finisher doesn't make sense. Little surprised Lumbering Falls isn't higher, with it's hexproof and decent body.
On the one hand, the argument against Dwarves is that they don't want to do too much in one set. If they do have contraptions and an overall steampunk feel, plus the overall Indian-themed plane, there's a lot they are already committing to. Adding Dwarves on top of that could spread them too thin. If you have Dwarves coming back you'd want them back in a significant way, like "DWARVES!"
OTOH an artifact steampunk plane is probably one of the best suited planes to bring Dwarves back to. The alternative is probably the Underground plane. My gut tells me that keeping them for the Underground plane makes more sense, but we'll see.
I know that Celestial Colonnade is arguably the best manland, given it's role in WU late games, flying for evasion, and a high toughness. But I'm curious about how ALL of the manlands shake out relative to one another. Vote below!
I noticed that in the story mode of Magic Duels the joint Jace-Tamiyo against Avacyn is a Blue-White-Green deck. Both Jace and Tamiyo have been Blue in the past, and there's an argument that the deck is just reflecting the Investigate mechanic from the set. But it seems very likely that Tamiyo will be a Planeswalker in Eldritch Moon. Back to back blue planeswalkers? Maybe, or they could take the opportunity to distinguish Tamiyo as something more than just Blue. Could be interesting if she interacts with the Investigate mechanic.
I'm very interested in sorting out the GB Delirium deck versus if the archetype has legs in White too.
White-
Enablers-
Angelic Purge (Enabler in terms of sacrificing a permanent).
Stern Constable (Enabler, discard).
Pious Evangel (Enabler in terms of sacrificing a permanent).
Bound by Moonsilver (Enabler in terms of sacrificing a permanent).
Vessel of Ephemera (Enabler in terms of getting an enchantment into the graveyard, tokens for other payoffs like Reaper below)
Payoff-
Moorland Drifter (2/2 flyer for 2 when Delirium-ed)
Inquisitor's Ox (3/5 vigilance for 4 when Delirium-ed) I think this is one of the good late game payoffs.
Paranoid Parish-Blade (4/2 first strike for 3 when Delirium-ed)
Reaper of Flight Moonsilver (seems like it could work better with tokens. Potential for 5/4 flying when Delirium-ed, with sacrifice)
Angel of Deliverance (Exile opponent's card if Delirium-ed, 6/6 flyer for 8)
Tobblegeist (Tap down creatures when Delirium-ed)
Descend upon the Sinful (Board wipe, could get you a 4/4 Angel when Delerium-ed, 6 mana)
Well, I can tell you what the archetypes for RTR were
Also, does anyone see stuff in SOI? I mean, probably of course the R/B Madness/Vampires deck, and the other allied tribe colors look to be there, but what archetypes do they all look to fit into?
I'm seeing an argument for Black-Green delirium, but also that White has better delirium payoff cards. I don't know if I see the enablers in White though. Getting up to four will be tough in Limited I think, but we'll see.
Quick thoughts:
WU- ETB Skies/Spirits.
UB- Zombies/Graveyard.
BR- Vampires/Madness/Aggro.
RG- Werewolves Aggro.
GW- Humans, and I think this may be GWx.
WB- Tokens go wide, Slulk. (Spirits, Zombies, Clerics).
UR- Spells matter.
BG- Delirium
RW- Some people say equipment. I guess maybe it's a Voltron Aggro.
GU- Investigate isn't a winning strategy it's a route to finding the cards you need to win. I want to say this may have the best interactions with DFC, but again how is that a win?
Also, the differences in Theros' Heroic for WG, WR, WU were matters of scale -- WG built single, huge creatures (eg Setessan Oathsworn), WR was a more varied, wide approach (Akroan Crusader), and WU had more heroic creatures but they did less combat-focused things (Meletis Astronomer, Wavecrash Triton). WU Heroic as an all-in aggro deck was far more the Constructed beast, and Battlewise Hoplite was the main blue creature played -- blue mostly had killer unblockability spells. Also note that most of the crucial Heroic components were in mono-white (Favored Hoplite, Phalanx Leader, Wingsteed Rider, Akroan Skyguard), so the supporting color might've determined less how the deck would've played out.
I think it's interesting when you get differences in strategies. For example. WG in Theros was building a single, huge creature. WR was going wide. Now in Shadows of Innistrad I think we've flipped it. WR looks more like building huge creatures, and WG is going wide. WG was also going wide in RTR.
Those two were the most clearly defined. I think you can also make arguments for RW "Go wide" aggro, UR Spells matter and BG toughness matters. There were also supposed to be allied-color archetypes woven into the format for players to discover, like RG Bearpunch.
Yeah I thought a little bit about going deeper into Tarkir, but it gets so messy. Plus when you get to Dragons it goes sideways and you're seeing the five allied-colored archetypes more.
BFZ:
UW: I beg to differ a little bit. It was a skies deck to be sure, but Awaken was more deeply rooted in UW than any other color combination, and Halimar Tidecaller was at its best in UW. I think the best UW decks were running powerful Awaken spells and Tidecaller when you were fortunate enough to have one in the pod.
I think that's true! When it came together it came together well. Otherwise you were left with a half-Awaken deck with insufficient power.
UR: I think this was more of an Eldrazi Midrange deck than Eldrazi aggro. It depends on exactly which cards you ended up with of course, but if we take the gold uncommons as guides, Herald of Kozilek is not an aggro creature. This was the "colorless matters" take on the Eldrazi theme, in contrast to UB which you point out was based around Ingest/Process.
Yeah, I wasn't entirely sure when to push something over into the Midrange vs. Aggro category.
It would be nice to be able to categorize everything into Aggro/Midrange/Control, with maybe an "Other" for unusual spins on the situation, plus a modifier of what mechanic you're revolving around (ex. Heroic, Eldrazi, Minotaur, etc.).
I'm trying to work on categorizing some past limited archetypes in previous sets to help in understanding set-design with Wizards.
I want to start with Theros because it comes after the Guild-heavy RTR block and has the first consistent rounds of 10 gold uncommons to send "signals" on the archetypes.
I'm trying to be short and specific as much as possible, but still accurate in describing the depth of the archetype.
Any help would be appreciated.
THEROS-
WU: Heroic (How to distinguish from GW?)
UB: Control.
BR: Minotaur, Aggro.
RG: Monsters.
GW: Heroic (How to distinguish from WU?)
WB: Control? Grind?
UR: Spells Matter.
BG: Graveyard? Some Enchantment matters.
RW: Heroic? Aggro?
GU: Tempo? Ramp? Monstrous?
The addition of Born of the Gods and Journey into Nyx changed the relative standings of different colors, but I don't remember any radical shifts in archetype.
TARKIR-
The limited draft was to move into an enemy-color pair and then splash another color for each clan, but there were some sub-themes. Like BW Warriors.
BATTLE FOR ZENDIKAR-
WU: Awaken was in this color, but the archetype really was just WU Skies.
UB: Eldrazi (More control/grind. Ingest)
BR: Eldrazi (Aggro)
RG: Aggro, landfall.
GW: Allies.
WB: Midrange, Lifegain Allies.
UR: Eldrazi (Aggro).
BG: Eldrazi (Tokens/Scrifice).
RW: Allies (Aggro).
GU: Was supposed to be converge, but weak theme.
I actually fell off from drafting with Oath came out, so I'm not able to comment on how that shifted the archetypes. UW got disorganized. UR picked up Surge, as its the common "spells matter" pair. WB was more explicitly allies.
A Ravnica 3 works if they just want to do a gold block, although I'm curious how they would handle it with the modern 2 block design. Five allied, five enemies, or mix it up more?
From Maro's Rabiah Scale:
It's too soon I feel to go back to Zendikar, Innistrad, or Kaladesh. I feel like Theros was left off as a real cliff-hanger with its endging, with Ashiok running around doing stuff, Elspeth having unresolved issues, etc. But it's also possible that by the time the post-Atlazan block rolls around there will be space for a strong multicolor block, which could bring in Alara.
I'm curious about people's thoughts because one guidepost I used to use, looking at how long returns took under the old system, don't make sense now with the two-block/no core structure moving the storyline along faster. I feel like we'll see a true return, not something like Regatha or Vryn that's only be touched on. Theros or Alara would be my top picks, with New Phyrexia/Mirrodin as the runner up. My only pause on the latter is I don't see how to fit it into the Nicol Bolas-centered storyline right now.
I don't know why but the idea of a cruel Hunger Games type test to find the Worthy reminded me a little bit of the first Magic book "Arena." Makes me suspect that as much as the plane believes the Worthy are lavished with rewards, bad things probably happen to them.
• Celestial Colonnade 4.750
• Raging Ravine 4.667
• Creeping Tar Pit 3.667
• Shambling Vent 3.000
• Stirring Wildwood 3.000
• Wandering Fumarole 2.667
• Lumbering Falls 2.667
• Hissing Quagmire 2.333
• Needle Spires 2.000
• Lavaclaw Reaches 1.500
Makes sense. For some of the color pairs the idea of a late-game manland finisher doesn't make sense. Little surprised Lumbering Falls isn't higher, with it's hexproof and decent body.
OTOH an artifact steampunk plane is probably one of the best suited planes to bring Dwarves back to. The alternative is probably the Underground plane. My gut tells me that keeping them for the Underground plane makes more sense, but we'll see.
But in either case, looking at prior to SOI.
White-
Enablers-
Angelic Purge (Enabler in terms of sacrificing a permanent).
Stern Constable (Enabler, discard).
Pious Evangel (Enabler in terms of sacrificing a permanent).
Bound by Moonsilver (Enabler in terms of sacrificing a permanent).
Vessel of Ephemera (Enabler in terms of getting an enchantment into the graveyard, tokens for other payoffs like Reaper below)
Payoff-
Moorland Drifter (2/2 flyer for 2 when Delirium-ed)
Inquisitor's Ox (3/5 vigilance for 4 when Delirium-ed) I think this is one of the good late game payoffs.
Paranoid Parish-Blade (4/2 first strike for 3 when Delirium-ed)
Reaper of Flight Moonsilver (seems like it could work better with tokens. Potential for 5/4 flying when Delirium-ed, with sacrifice)
Angel of Deliverance (Exile opponent's card if Delirium-ed, 6/6 flyer for 8)
Tobblegeist (Tap down creatures when Delirium-ed)
Descend upon the Sinful (Board wipe, could get you a 4/4 Angel when Delerium-ed, 6 mana)
I'm seeing an argument for Black-Green delirium, but also that White has better delirium payoff cards. I don't know if I see the enablers in White though. Getting up to four will be tough in Limited I think, but we'll see.
Quick thoughts:
WU- ETB Skies/Spirits.
UB- Zombies/Graveyard.
BR- Vampires/Madness/Aggro.
RG- Werewolves Aggro.
GW- Humans, and I think this may be GWx.
WB- Tokens go wide, Slulk. (Spirits, Zombies, Clerics).
UR- Spells matter.
BG- Delirium
RW- Some people say equipment. I guess maybe it's a Voltron Aggro.
GU- Investigate isn't a winning strategy it's a route to finding the cards you need to win. I want to say this may have the best interactions with DFC, but again how is that a win?
I think it's interesting when you get differences in strategies. For example. WG in Theros was building a single, huge creature. WR was going wide. Now in Shadows of Innistrad I think we've flipped it. WR looks more like building huge creatures, and WG is going wide. WG was also going wide in RTR.
For Theros, could this work?
WG: Heroic Aggro Voltron.
WR: Heroic Aggro Wide.
WU: Heroic Midrange.
Yeah I thought a little bit about going deeper into Tarkir, but it gets so messy. Plus when you get to Dragons it goes sideways and you're seeing the five allied-colored archetypes more.
I think that's true! When it came together it came together well. Otherwise you were left with a half-Awaken deck with insufficient power.
Yeah, I wasn't entirely sure when to push something over into the Midrange vs. Aggro category.
It would be nice to be able to categorize everything into Aggro/Midrange/Control, with maybe an "Other" for unusual spins on the situation, plus a modifier of what mechanic you're revolving around (ex. Heroic, Eldrazi, Minotaur, etc.).
I want to start with Theros because it comes after the Guild-heavy RTR block and has the first consistent rounds of 10 gold uncommons to send "signals" on the archetypes.
I'm trying to be short and specific as much as possible, but still accurate in describing the depth of the archetype.
Any help would be appreciated.
THEROS-
WU: Heroic (How to distinguish from GW?)
UB: Control.
BR: Minotaur, Aggro.
RG: Monsters.
GW: Heroic (How to distinguish from WU?)
WB: Control? Grind?
UR: Spells Matter.
BG: Graveyard? Some Enchantment matters.
RW: Heroic? Aggro?
GU: Tempo? Ramp? Monstrous?
The addition of Born of the Gods and Journey into Nyx changed the relative standings of different colors, but I don't remember any radical shifts in archetype.
TARKIR-
The limited draft was to move into an enemy-color pair and then splash another color for each clan, but there were some sub-themes. Like BW Warriors.
BATTLE FOR ZENDIKAR-
WU: Awaken was in this color, but the archetype really was just WU Skies.
UB: Eldrazi (More control/grind. Ingest)
BR: Eldrazi (Aggro)
RG: Aggro, landfall.
GW: Allies.
WB: Midrange, Lifegain Allies.
UR: Eldrazi (Aggro).
BG: Eldrazi (Tokens/Scrifice).
RW: Allies (Aggro).
GU: Was supposed to be converge, but weak theme.
I actually fell off from drafting with Oath came out, so I'm not able to comment on how that shifted the archetypes. UW got disorganized. UR picked up Surge, as its the common "spells matter" pair. WB was more explicitly allies.
Would appreciate any help in this project.