I updated the list to include 2 and 3 color combos as well as added some new items. Also, I decided to keep the splinter twin combos in the list and add a strike through for the now banned combination.
Be sure to reply with any combos you come up with and I'll add them to the list.
Allegedly, not one, but two judges at this event ruled that Sea's Claim on a Tron land did not shut off Tron.
yikes
[ quotes from other people]
this is interesting!
what happens when you put a sideboard card (like Spreading Seas) in your deck because you *know* it works a certain way, and then someone at a tournament tries to tell you otherwise? how do you show them they're wrong? in the middle of a match I don't think you're allowed to get your phone out and actually show them the ruling (no electronic devices allowed) so what happens? this seems like it should be more than a corner case scenario, the cards are very commonly played and both decks (tron and merfolk) where we see these cropping up have been tier 1 in the last four months.
If it is a large enough event you can appeal to the head judge. Also, if you know the correct ruling be prepared to explain it to the judge. I've had to correct a judge before and if you are calm and explain very clearly they understand. In this case you would need to ask for the oracle text on any of the tron lands and point out to the judge that they do not ask for a card named "Urza's Mine/Tower/Power Plant", but are looking for the subtype. They should see why they ruled wrong with that information. If not point out that Sea's Claim does not say "In addition to its other types" and will override subtypes like "Urza's Mine".
What are you guys thoughts on investing in Vesuva or Thespian's Stage? Both are decent eldrazi as a 1 of and I can see either seeing TONS of play if one of the eldrazi lands gets banned out.
Buy Vesuva. Ignore Thespian's Stage for now as it serves a very different purpose. The kinds of situations I'd use Thespian's stage are when the opponent has a legendary land and I want to destroy it. Transform the stage into the legendary land and then let the legends rule kill the older copy. Vesuva is used to act as Eldrazi Temple 5-8 or Glimmerpost 5-8.
Does the new legendary rule work like that? I'm pretty sure you'd both just have a copy of the same legendary land.
Barachai, you are correct. Both you and your opponent can keep one of each legendary permanent.
It took the below deck to SCG regionals in Seattle and went 1-5-1 drop. This was my first time playing a prison deck and I learned much from it. I liked how the deck played with the exception of Sylvan Scrying. My thought was I didn't want to get stuck with Spreading Algae in my hand without Urborg. I'll want to see what 3 cards I'd want to replace that with.
Game 1: Lesson: Choose Finks first with Nodes. This game started out well with Porphyry Nodes and Ghostly Prison in hand. At some point the board state had him with a Kitchen Finks and I cast Nodes. The next turn he runs out a Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. I choose Kalitas with Nodes and let him re-read the card. Turns out that was a mistake. I should've chosen Finks first, let it persist. Instead I got Kalitas. Next turn I got Finks and while it was in the graveyard persisting the Nodes sacrificed itself. After that there is a large list of -2 to my life total.
Game 2: Lesson: A 3/4 Goyf is something you want to use Runed Halo on. This game I got out Spreading Algae on Turn 2. It was great, the opponent used his next turn to cast Goyf and he was down one land already. As the game progressed I drew a Runed Halo with Goyf still on the board. I thought I should keep Halo in hand in case another threat showed up that I needed to deal with. He proceeds to cast Inquisition and take it from my hand, Goyf goes up to a 4/5 and is able to kill me in 3 turns.
Game 1: The deck played exactly like it should. I was able to lock out the ground creatures with Nodes and Prison cards and cast Runed Halo naming Eidolon. At that point I have 12 life and the life total goes 12-9-6-3. It stays at 3 for 2 turns and then I draw Leyline. The Opponent conceeds.
Game 2: Lesson: Play a bit more conservatively. This game goes just as well. I draw Nevermore just in time to name Destructive Revelry and Halo in time for Eidolon. I get the Leyline setup with 3 life to spare and Heliod is out and ready for action. My opponent is at 6 and I tapped down his Swiftspear with the Scepter last turn. Heliod deals 5 damage and I have 3 life. My opponent draws a Goblin Guide and I tap down the Swiftspear leaving my 3 life to absorb the 2 damage from Guide. My opponent then casts Boros Charm for double strike and wins. I should've left Heliod up to block and waited until I could make a few tokens.
Game 3: Plays very much like game 2 with Nevermore on Revelry and set up the prison with 4 life. This time I make sure my life total is secure before attacking with Nykthos generated Cleric tokens to take the match
Game 1: Lesson: There isn't one. Sometimes Affinity just wins. This game was fast with my opponent winning the die roll and dumping 5 artifacts on the board. His turn 2 he casts plating and equips taking me to 13. His turn 3 he adds a few more artifacts and attacks for 10 followed by Galvanic Blast. We quickly shuffle for game 2.
Game 2: Affinity was a little slower this time and I draw Wrath of God. Unfortunately the opponent boarded in Thoughtseize and takes it on his turn 3. His hoard of creatures comes over and takes me from 14 to 8 to 1. I draw my last card hoping for a wipe and conceed when it doesn't appear.
Game 1: Lesson: Why didn't you save your Ghost Quarters. I mulliganed to 6, but had a 7 card hand with Ghost Quarter and 2 Leylines. If somehow I knew it was Scapeshift I might have kept that hand. With the 6 card hand I drew into 2 Ghost Quarters, but wasted them early trying to take the opponent off of blue mana. He gets to 8 lands and casts Scapeshift.
Game 2: Lesson: Focus on Runed Halo. I opened with a Leyline this game, but knew it wasn't safe from Cryptic without redundancy. Forturnately, I also had Nevermore and Runed Halo. I tried casting Runed Halo and had it remanded. Next I tried Nevermore and another Remand showed up. I had the mana to recast Halo if I had gone with that. Instead I try Nevermore for 2 more turns. Finally, I realize my mistake and try Halo, but by then he has Cryptic and choses Bounce-Counter. I should've just kept running out Runed Halo and left the Nevermore behind.
Game 1: Lesson: Use Runed Halo already. I setup 3 Ghostly Prisons early with some Nodes taking out Birds and Hierarch. The opponent gets out Melira and Viscera Seer. I have Runed Halo in my hand I decide to hold onto it again thinking I'll name Redcap after he does the combo with Finks. Turns out he just cast Redcap and does the combo.
Game 2: Lesson: Mayber I should call people on slow play. This game starts out with 2 Leylines. I was able to get the prison up and the oppenent then is drawing for infinite life. Before he could get there I get Heliod out with 16 mana available each turn. A few attacks with Cleric tokens later and the opponent goes down. Unfortunately, my opponent was very slow in all his actions and it took most the match round for this game.
Game 3: We only get about 3 turns in when time is called and the match ends in a draw. Clearly at this point I'm in the tournament to have fun, but my opponent starts berating me that my deck is designed to draw. I'll have to remember to call players on slow play for future competitive REL tournaments.
Game 1: My opponent won this game, but conceeded after some rule discussion. He shouldn't have and should've won this game. That is why the score says three losses for me above.
Game 2: Lesson: Watchout for Aven Mindcensor. I don't have many notes from these games as game 1 got me out of sorts. But I do remember that Mindcensor was able to make me waste a fetch land and come up empty handed.
Game 3: Had Wrath of God in my openner but never got to 4 lands to cast it.
Game 1: Controlled the game well with Wrath of God and then Sigil. My 4/4 tokens outclassed the 2/2 Spirits and I quickly won the game.
Game 2: I don't have notes for this game, but if I remember correctly it was that Nodes just wasn't fast enough vs the tokens being generated.
Game 3: Lesson: Take the flying token with Nodes, not Kataki. At one point in the game I had the option of taking a token or Kataki and took the latter. It was annoying with my one scepter out. In the last turn of the game I had my opponent down to two tokens with Nodes and could tap down one. But the last token was able to get a pump from Intangible Virtue to steal my last point of life. If I had taken that token originally and left Kataki, it wouldn't get the pump and I could have also named it with Halo. Halo unfortunately cannot name Spirit =(.
I really like the deck and will make some changes before I take it out again. It was fun and nice running a deck that doesn't fold as easily to burn like my Combo Elves. The Scepter-Algae combo was awesome when it came online, but Spreading Algae on its own was fun too. I had Judges called in my first 4 matches to ensure the card was modern legal.
For any deck running white (like Jeskai), if you really want an answer for Boggles. Celestial Flare has been great in my experience. You also get the benefit of having it available via snapcaster. Worst case they are forced to extend into a second attacker/blocker or risk being blown out.
Doesn't the Bogles player run Leyline of Sanctity to prevent this? Perhaps they don't think to board it in, but I would think you would in the presence of Bolt-Snap-Bolt.
Thank you for the updates. It could be good to mention with RU-x that if they drop Keranos and you have leyline + no creatures they have to start bolting their own creatures or themselves. The ability is mandatory.
I agree, we don't lock threads when cards are added, but the deck isn't fundamentally changed. Why would we need to lock a thread when cards are removed, but the deck still plays the same.
I mean does burn play differently when Destructive Revelry and Atarka's Command were added? No. And Amulet does not play differently with Summer Bloom gone. It just lost a ramp spell.
What do people do vs. Back to Nature and Fracturing Gust? I'm worried about their uptick in sideboards with Bogles use going up.
Nevermore can stop them, but you have to guess which one. Does someone have a list of which decks usually run what enchantment wipe? Like Jund will play Back to Nature and Elves will play Fraturing Gust.
Also, has anyone tried Enchanted Evening as an insurance against board wipes? Someone probably won't run out a wipe if all of their permanents will be destroyed too.
Also, I was wondering why you removed the Evolutionary Leap combo from your list? Wouldn't having all the potential combos be better?
I don't know if my numbers are right or not for each step.
Here's the enchantment combo. I'm going to list two Abundant Growths, but it works just as well for Growth + Oath. Also, the combo isn't infinite, just an efficient use of the loads of mana Elves can generate.
Cast the Growth and have it resolve. This creates two triggers from Growth and Curio. Always put the Curio on first so it resolves last. You want to see the new card you draw before making decisions about whether to bounce a permanent.
Based on the card decided if the Curio trigger should bounce the other Abundant Growth. I usually choose to bounce unless I draw into an infinite combo.
I think the lesson is always describe the card you want to name with Pithing Needle. You don't need to know the name of the card in a tournament, but describe it well enough that both players know what card is meant.
Be sure to reply with any combos you come up with and I'll add them to the list.
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Heliod, God of the Sun
Enchantments
3 Greater Auramancy
4 Runed Halo
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Sphere of Safety
4 Porphyry Nodes
4 Spreading Algae
Artifacts
3 Scepter of Dominance
3 Wrath of God
3 Sylvan Scrying
Lands
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Fetid Heath
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
5 Plains
3 Forest
3 Beast Within
4 Nevermore
2 Karma
3 Stony Silence
2 Choke
1 Story Circle
Match 1 vs Jund Loss 0-2
Game 1: Lesson: Choose Finks first with Nodes. This game started out well with Porphyry Nodes and Ghostly Prison in hand. At some point the board state had him with a Kitchen Finks and I cast Nodes. The next turn he runs out a Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. I choose Kalitas with Nodes and let him re-read the card. Turns out that was a mistake. I should've chosen Finks first, let it persist. Instead I got Kalitas. Next turn I got Finks and while it was in the graveyard persisting the Nodes sacrificed itself. After that there is a large list of -2 to my life total.
Game 2: Lesson: A 3/4 Goyf is something you want to use Runed Halo on. This game I got out Spreading Algae on Turn 2. It was great, the opponent used his next turn to cast Goyf and he was down one land already. As the game progressed I drew a Runed Halo with Goyf still on the board. I thought I should keep Halo in hand in case another threat showed up that I needed to deal with. He proceeds to cast Inquisition and take it from my hand, Goyf goes up to a 4/5 and is able to kill me in 3 turns.
Match 2 vs Burn Win 2-1
Game 1: The deck played exactly like it should. I was able to lock out the ground creatures with Nodes and Prison cards and cast Runed Halo naming Eidolon. At that point I have 12 life and the life total goes 12-9-6-3. It stays at 3 for 2 turns and then I draw Leyline. The Opponent conceeds.
Game 2: Lesson: Play a bit more conservatively. This game goes just as well. I draw Nevermore just in time to name Destructive Revelry and Halo in time for Eidolon. I get the Leyline setup with 3 life to spare and Heliod is out and ready for action. My opponent is at 6 and I tapped down his Swiftspear with the Scepter last turn. Heliod deals 5 damage and I have 3 life. My opponent draws a Goblin Guide and I tap down the Swiftspear leaving my 3 life to absorb the 2 damage from Guide. My opponent then casts Boros Charm for double strike and wins. I should've left Heliod up to block and waited until I could make a few tokens.
Game 3: Plays very much like game 2 with Nevermore on Revelry and set up the prison with 4 life. This time I make sure my life total is secure before attacking with Nykthos generated Cleric tokens to take the match
Match 3 vs Affinity Loss 0-2
Game 1: Lesson: There isn't one. Sometimes Affinity just wins. This game was fast with my opponent winning the die roll and dumping 5 artifacts on the board. His turn 2 he casts plating and equips taking me to 13. His turn 3 he adds a few more artifacts and attacks for 10 followed by Galvanic Blast. We quickly shuffle for game 2.
Game 2: Affinity was a little slower this time and I draw Wrath of God. Unfortunately the opponent boarded in Thoughtseize and takes it on his turn 3. His hoard of creatures comes over and takes me from 14 to 8 to 1. I draw my last card hoping for a wipe and conceed when it doesn't appear.
Match 4 vs Scapeshift Loss 0-2
Game 1: Lesson: Why didn't you save your Ghost Quarters. I mulliganed to 6, but had a 7 card hand with Ghost Quarter and 2 Leylines. If somehow I knew it was Scapeshift I might have kept that hand. With the 6 card hand I drew into 2 Ghost Quarters, but wasted them early trying to take the opponent off of blue mana. He gets to 8 lands and casts Scapeshift.
Game 2: Lesson: Focus on Runed Halo. I opened with a Leyline this game, but knew it wasn't safe from Cryptic without redundancy. Forturnately, I also had Nevermore and Runed Halo. I tried casting Runed Halo and had it remanded. Next I tried Nevermore and another Remand showed up. I had the mana to recast Halo if I had gone with that. Instead I try Nevermore for 2 more turns. Finally, I realize my mistake and try Halo, but by then he has Cryptic and choses Bounce-Counter. I should've just kept running out Runed Halo and left the Nevermore behind.
Match 5 vs Abzan Company Draw 1-1-1
Game 1: Lesson: Use Runed Halo already. I setup 3 Ghostly Prisons early with some Nodes taking out Birds and Hierarch. The opponent gets out Melira and Viscera Seer. I have Runed Halo in my hand I decide to hold onto it again thinking I'll name Redcap after he does the combo with Finks. Turns out he just cast Redcap and does the combo.
Game 2: Lesson: Mayber I should call people on slow play. This game starts out with 2 Leylines. I was able to get the prison up and the oppenent then is drawing for infinite life. Before he could get there I get Heliod out with 16 mana available each turn. A few attacks with Cleric tokens later and the opponent goes down. Unfortunately, my opponent was very slow in all his actions and it took most the match round for this game.
Game 3: We only get about 3 turns in when time is called and the match ends in a draw. Clearly at this point I'm in the tournament to have fun, but my opponent starts berating me that my deck is designed to draw. I'll have to remember to call players on slow play for future competitive REL tournaments.
Match 6 vs Abzan Company Loss 0-3
Game 1: My opponent won this game, but conceeded after some rule discussion. He shouldn't have and should've won this game. That is why the score says three losses for me above.
Game 2: Lesson: Watchout for Aven Mindcensor. I don't have many notes from these games as game 1 got me out of sorts. But I do remember that Mindcensor was able to make me waste a fetch land and come up empty handed.
Game 3: Had Wrath of God in my openner but never got to 4 lands to cast it.
Match 7 vs BW Tokens Loss 1-2
Game 1: Controlled the game well with Wrath of God and then Sigil. My 4/4 tokens outclassed the 2/2 Spirits and I quickly won the game.
Game 2: I don't have notes for this game, but if I remember correctly it was that Nodes just wasn't fast enough vs the tokens being generated.
Game 3: Lesson: Take the flying token with Nodes, not Kataki. At one point in the game I had the option of taking a token or Kataki and took the latter. It was annoying with my one scepter out. In the last turn of the game I had my opponent down to two tokens with Nodes and could tap down one. But the last token was able to get a pump from Intangible Virtue to steal my last point of life. If I had taken that token originally and left Kataki, it wouldn't get the pump and I could have also named it with Halo. Halo unfortunately cannot name Spirit =(.
Conclussion
I really like the deck and will make some changes before I take it out again. It was fun and nice running a deck that doesn't fold as easily to burn like my Combo Elves. The Scepter-Algae combo was awesome when it came online, but Spreading Algae on its own was fun too. I had Judges called in my first 4 matches to ensure the card was modern legal.
I mean does burn play differently when Destructive Revelry and Atarka's Command were added? No. And Amulet does not play differently with Summer Bloom gone. It just lost a ramp spell.
Nevermore can stop them, but you have to guess which one. Does someone have a list of which decks usually run what enchantment wipe? Like Jund will play Back to Nature and Elves will play Fraturing Gust.
Also, has anyone tried Enchanted Evening as an insurance against board wipes? Someone probably won't run out a wipe if all of their permanents will be destroyed too.
It has less versatility than Squelch, but can have more impact when used.
Karn takes up his vow of pacifism again and exile's himself.
Welding Jar regenerates Darksteel Citadel instead of Steel Overseer.
LotV's -2 can cause the opponent to sacrifice a creature.
Grim Lavamancer target's himself.
Fulminator Mage believes his owner's land needs removing.
Cast the Growth and have it resolve. This creates two triggers from Growth and Curio. Always put the Curio on first so it resolves last. You want to see the new card you draw before making decisions about whether to bounce a permanent.Resolve the Growth trigger and draw a card.Based on the card decided if the Curio trigger should bounce the other Abundant Growth. I usually choose to bounce unless I draw into an infinite combo.Now you have almost the same state, but +1 card and -1 G
If you get infinite mana online the draw is infinite and you will win the game.
I've been looking at trying to add Spreading Algae to my deck if Eldrazi takes off. Repeatable land destruction would be nice.