MTG Salvation

Pauper or Pioneer?

Quote from NerdSoda »

I'm interested in trying this deck for Arena, but I'm curious: What are the 2x Vindicate's in the side supposed to be?

Wishful thinking!

Sorry, they are Mortify.

Tell me, who else thinks the following is funny?

• Truefire Captain
  
• Dauntless Bodyguard
  
• Gideon's Sacrifice

There's no reason to think Deathrite Shaman needs to be banned; he's just not going to be as abuse-able as he was in Modern and Legacy. He was not widely played in Standard. There's no way to cast Deathrite turn-one and ramp on turn-two in Pioneer.

The cards that were banned in both Modern and also in Standard when they were Standard legal are the prime suspects. Cards that never made the ban lists for the eternal formats should be given the benefit of the doubt. Cards that weren't banned when in Standard are likely not going to be a problem even if they were banned in Modern.

I wish I had kept my copies of Mental Misstep, They may well get the chop; they were banned from Extended if I recall correctly.

Quote from truth_bomb »

round 1 vs Ad Nauseam, 1-2.
SB: +2 Damping Sphere , +2 Stony Silence. -4 Fatal Push.
game 1, i had an aggro draw:
-turn 1 Inquisition.
-turn 2 Bitterblossom.
-turn 3 Lingering Souls.
-turn 4 2x Intangible Virtue.
it got there.
games 2&3, i kept hands w/multiple Liliana's, hoping to discard his combo pieces. both games, he held onto Ad Nauseam as his last card and went off on 5 mana.
new SB plan vs Ad Nauseam is:
+2 Collective Brutality, +2 Stony Silence. -4 Fatal Push.
wish i could cleanly swap out Path to Exile too but it's virtually painless to Path a token for mana screw.

It's tough to beat Ad Nauseam fast enough without interacting with their enchantments. Affinity or Infect can sometimes do it; I've managed to win game one with Affinity in my last two match-ups with it. The first time, the kid played Angel's Grace, and then said "oh". Fortunately Affinity can play any color so I have gotten mileage out of Stubborn Denial, Thoughtseize and Ray of Revelation - two Phyrexian Unlife? No problem! I love flashback!

I've also beaten it with GW Hatebears; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a hard card for them to beat.

BW Tokens best chance is probably either Thoughtseize and Surgical Extraction or maybe something like Lost Legacy. Discard alone won't get there unless you can clock them fast; they will draw their pieces and they will go-off. They can also tune their side-board for the LGS; the jerk had Hurkyll's Recall in his side-board last Friday. I suppose it's fair; Ad Naseam is the main reason I have Ray of Revelation in my side-board.

Quote from pzbw7z »

[quote from="Dragonsinofmagic »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/221770-modern-knights?comment=2497"]mardu mana:

Dragonsinofmagic's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Maindeck (60) 4 Fervent Champion 4 Knight of the Ebon Legion 2 Corpse Knight 4 Inspiring Veteran 4 Worthy Knight 4 Acclaimed Contender 2 Benalish Marshal 4 Knight Exemplar 2 Foulmire Knight (Profane Insight) 2 Murderous Rider (Swift End) 1 Smitten Swordmaster (Curry Favor)	4 Aether Vial 2 Ancient Ziggurat 2 Blood Crypt 2 Concealed Courtyard 3 Inspiring Vantage 1 Mountain 2 Plains 1 Silent Clearing 2 Swamp 4 Tournament Grounds 4 Unclaimed Territory	Sideboard (4) 4 Embereth Shieldbreaker (Battle Display)

Shared via TopDecked MTG

https://www.topdecked.me/decks/9f50d5a4-e541-47a5-91f0-271336d60a8a

this is my first thought on a list for mardu... any thoughts

This deck will struggle to cast Swift End with the mana-base it currently has. There are eight B sources for non-creature spells. This needs to be addressed. Cutting Murderous Rider isn't what I would want to do, so a revision of the mana-base or the creatures themselves is called for.

This deck wants R and B turn one, R, W and B turn-two, and WW, BB, and R on turn three and Ancient Ziggurat, Tournament Ground and Unclaimed Territory don't count towards the BB.

You are going to need about eighteenteen genuine B sources to drop Swift End on-curve. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth would go a long way towards fixing this, but I think you're going to have to build a mana-base that supports BB on turn-three first, and then see what you can do for the rest. You may have to reconsider some of the cards you are playing.

The first step is to run mainly Bx duals; I think this will be essential. Fetches are also going to be mandatory.

I think it's best to reduce either W or R or both to a splash to accomplish this. Without any equipment, Fervent Champion is not worth the pressure on the mana-base, so cutting him would go a long way towards easing the mana demands. Having BB and WW on turn-three will be easier if R isn't needed at all until turn-two.

Assuming we ditch Fervent Champion for a B or W one-drop, the following would provide the number of sources needed to cast everything in the main-deck on curve, including Swift End. This means 18+ B sources usable for spells to get 1BB on turn-three, 18+ W sources to get 1WW on turn-three, and 14+ R sources to get R on turn one. We have more than enough B and W sources to make that BR or WR on turn-two.



There's a little flexibility, but I wouldn't reduce the number of basics, and I wouldn't run more than two Horizon Lands, in fact, a three-one split of Concealed Courtyard-Silent Clearing would be fine.

This mana-base should also give you good support for side-board spells.

Here's a link to the resource I used for the number of sources.

Vial decks don't usually run this many lands but Vial decks don't usually run three colors. And Vials can't put anything in play on-curve and they obviously don't cast spells - not even Adventures.

EDIT: Changes have been made since original post, primarily to support R, 1R, and 1WW spells. 1BB is also supported. I finally got it to support R on curve. Man, that was a job of work!

Quote from hellohero »

Thoughts on Jared Day's list from last weekends Star City Games Invitational Qualifier.

What's interesting to me are the zero fetches to, I assume, helps preserve his life total. The major thing I noticed with this list was the cut of Goblin Guides down to 2 to make room for a single lavamancer and shard. Personally I don't think I'd cut guides but I do like the manabase and would properly do something like 4 sunbaked, 3 vantage.

If he swapped Canlands for fetches it's not to preserve his life-total; wait till you start a game with two of them as your only lands! Yes, you probably should mulligan that hand. A starting hand with two fetches is pretty sweet, though, isn't it?

Fanatical Firebrand was - I'm reasonably sure - just anti-Bridge from Below tech. In view of the banning, I'd say forget about the little guy.

I've been playing three Canopy-style lands in another deck and it has felt like one too many. Eight strikes me as nuts. Burn is different, but eight still seems like suicide.

I haven't tried LutS, so my opinion might not be worth much and I don't think I'm going to, but if I did, it would be a one-of or maybe a two-of.

Some of the side-board is obviously anti-Hogaak tech. It remains to be seen how much grave-hate is needed now.

This card, might, I say MIGHT, just be worth a side-board slot. . .

So has anyone considered running a Humans-like mana-base and going three or four-colors? I probably wouldn't run many if any Ancient Ziggurats, as there will still be a need for some spells since Knights don't have as much interaction as Humans.

Still, I just REALLY want to play a Haakon deck! I have for years!

So... as far as commanders:

Dragonlord Dromoka: Generic Selesnya Combo Commander stops your opponent from interacting when you are ready to go off.
Captain Sisay: While I feel that sisay is normally more toolbox than combo, having a commander with the power to grab Melira for the combo win, Teeg or Dosan to run interference, saffi to protect a combo piece, Teshar to grab a piece back... it can be a decent toolbox approach to the deck. while it's slow and paints a bit of a target on your back, I'd still say it beats Trostani's "LoL infinite life".
Shalai, Voice of Plenty: Another off-beat one. It protects your other dudes and gives you a secondary infinite mana sink in case of emergencies (such as stony silence, which turns off all of your win conditions other than "attack with big ballista").
Siona, Captain of the Pyleas: This oen is actually my favorite. All you have to do is use a single slot in your 99 for Shielded by Faith (allowing for infinite 1/1s) and you get another play-line leading to infinite Altar/Station sacrifices (and potentially infinite mana for ballista if Phyrexian/Ashmod's Altars are in there) where one of the combo pieces lives in your command zone.

Also a bit confused regarding why you are using the devoted druid combo. While Vizier works with both druid and with persist, cards like Melira or Solemnity nonbo with druid (you can't try to pay a price that you are unable to pay) and you have alternate means of accessing infinite mana via persist loop with Phyrexian/Ashnod's altar.

Quote from pzbw7z »

Quote from JLambe13 »

I was thinking evolving wilds could be a option. I just wish there was a shuffle ability so when you mulligan you don't lose cards to the bottom of the deck.

Start with Fabled Passage.

yeah thats my plan, just need to pick them up

Quote from TibaltTown »

how do we beat amulet or is it like tron. autoloss

It's definitly not a good matchup, but we can win if we play it well and know how to disrupt the deck. I play against it a lot and like to think I understand the matchup pretty well, so let me see if I can help a little.

Amulet Titan is really complicated, that goes both for the player and the opponent. If one only faces it once in a while (even though it has gotten more popular recently) chances are one might not even know everything the deck is capable of.
The main things to understand here are firstly, how their landbase works (and how much slower it gets without Amulet of Vigor and Azusa, Lost but Seeking) and secondly, that dealing with one Primeval Titan is almost never enough since the usual lands an experienced Amulet player will get are a Simic Growth Chamber and Tolaria West to tutor up Summoner's Pact and get another Titan (rinse and repeat).
A good Amulet player will only go for the burst damage option of Slayers' Stronghold and Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion if they know there is very little chance of it not killing you.

The first thing you need to do in order to win this matchup is disrupt their gameplan by slowing down their mana production. This can best be done through our discard spells. Your main targets early on are Amulet of Vigor if you can catch it on t1 (always go for this if you can) and Azusa, Lost but Seeking. This changes slightly once they have the mana down to cast their big guys, or already have an established Amulet or Azusa on the board. In that case go for Primeval Titan, Engineered Explosives and Summoner's Pact(before they have the mana to pay for it, since it's an instant) and potentially Walking Ballista (if they have a lot of mana to cast a big one).

The second thing that's necesary to win is to disrupt the decks combo engine. This is to slow them down enough to where a durdly deck like ours can actually kill them before they kill us. The unfortunate thing is, that we can't really do this in game one, as we need sideboard cards for it. Bring in Surgical Extractionesque effects. Your main targets in order of priority are Summoner's Pact, Primeval Titan and Tolaria West. Engineered Explosives is on that list too, IF you know that they're playing more than 1.
This part of the gameplan is extremely important, just discard is not enough to disrupt them, as they can very easily tutor up the things they need on a whim. You will not win a topdeck war unless the Amulet player gets VERY VERY unlucky.

As far as sideboard cards are concerned, here are some that have served me well:

Damping Sphere: It's another way to slow down their mana production. It will buy you time (usually a few turns) but won't win you the game, you need to combine this with a clock.

Aven Mindcensor: Arguably the best card vs them, as it disrupts their combo engine all by itself. Amulet also plays very little interaction, so they'll struggle to get rid of the bird.

Surgical Extraction: Or really any effect like it. These help to disrupt the combo engine. Very important!

Anguished Unmaking: or really any insant speed removal that can save you from a charging Primeval Titan is very nice to have.

login suggested Runed Halo, which I don't love in the matchup, but it can work. The thing is, that even if their Titans can't damage you, they'll still attack and tutor up all the lands they need to find what they need to kill you through the Halo.

Also he mentioned Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle , which is not a card Amulet Titan plays, that one belongs to Titanshift, which is a very different deck.

The way BW tokens is currently built, no. You're only using half of her ability, which isn't impressive since there is no power gain, just lifelink, in which cast Sorin is better in most respects, strictly better if you consider that virtue already supplies the vigilance.

Teysa makes aristocrat's blood artist and other such effects stronger by doubling them. That is arguably the stronger of her 2 abilities, and we don't have that as-is.

Re: Jund vs. other BGx flavors
I encourage BGx players to think of these decks as options on a spectrum, not distinct decks. Jund will be better for certain metagame contexts. Abzan will be better for others. BG Rock too (Sultai, probably not so much, unless there are major changes). Both Jund and Abzan pick up significant and distinct edges from their unique third-color cards. BG Rock gets a separate set of edges for Field/Quarter and the manabase. As Reid Duke tends to do, the trick is to shift along the spectrum depending on what metagame forces you are encountering. Unfortunately, this isn't exactly cheap or economical due to the unique card/manabase requirements. But it is almost definitely the most competitive way to play and view the macro-BGx archetype. At least, that's been my experience as a former BGx player now returning to the scene, and a metagame/Modern analyst for years.

I'm not surprised by Reid's choice, especially in light of his article series.

I absolutely look to bring in every Fulminator Mage in the GBx midrange mirrors. Keeping an opponent off on lands, especially ones with abilities, is pretty brutal. If you manage to lock them out of a color for a turn or two, it can be game-ending on its own. Fulminator Mage isn't always that good, but I feel it's great here.

I think this card is counterintuitive. Why? Well besides that card being instant, I don't see what it really does better than Damnation. The theoretical strength of this card is that its instant, can get rid of indestructible and or cards like Finks/Voice etc, while not killing our creatures.

So, since it doesn't hit our creatures there has to be some creatures on the BF which we want to protect to make it better than Damnation. And often times, when you are up against creature decks, they won't attack you with all their creatures due to your creatures which makes this card not an one sided Wrath at all.

If you don't have creatures on the BF this card is just worse than Damnation.

Yeah it hits Finks/Voice and indestructible, but usually decks running Finks/Voice are running Birds/Hierachs which most likely won't attack at all.

Concerning indestructible its not that relevant in the top decks atm.

So the one advantage it has is that is instant. In theory you don't loose tempo compared to Damnation. However it is incredibly unrealiable and you also ramp your opponent. I think that I would run Damnation over it any day.

There is nothing we really want to do with the mana.

It would fit into a jeskai shell i think.

Quote from Dani92L »

Hey guys, new to the thread. I built this deck for my gf, but now I'm interested too in playing this. This is my current list:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creature (3): 3 Auriok Champion Instant/Sorcery (24): 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Thoughtseize 4 Path to Exile 3 Raise the Alarm 4 Lingering Souls 4 Spectral Procession 2 Start // Finish 1 Anguished Unmaking Enchantment (7): 3 Bitterblossom 4 Intangible Virtue Planeswalker (3): 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar	Land (23): 4 Concealed Courtyard 1 Isolated Chapel 1 Fetid Heath 4 Marsh Flats 2 Windswept Heath 3 Godless Shrine 3 Plains 1 Swamp 2 Windbrisk Heights 1 Vault of the Archangel 1 Ghost Quarter	Sideboard (15): 1 Duress 2 Collective Brutality 2 Selfless Spirit 1 Sundering Growth 1 Stony Silence 2 Rest in Peace 1 Anguished Unmaking 2 Settle the Wreckage 2 Gideon's Intervention 1 Baneslayer Angel

I'm not sure about Gideon's Intervention, maybe Runed Halo is better in his slot.
Any feedback will be appreciated! Thanks

In addition to what pzbw7z pointed out regarding Fatal Push, I would definitely swap that Isolated Chapel for a third Windswept Heath. You are running 9 lands that do not fulfill Chapel's check requirement, so the probability of it coming into play tapped is high enough that it should be removed. The extra fetch will also increase the relative value of Fatal Push, which I agree you should be running at least three copies of. Additionally, running Windbrisk Heights is player preference, but most of us switched it out for Shambling Vent, which seems to perform better in practice.

You're running 9 discard spells in your 75. If Storm is very prevalent in your meta, this is potentially reasonable, but otherwise, you can afford to drop the Duress. I would recommend a second Stony Silence, would swap Gideon's Intervention for Runed Halo, and (assuming you have this card in there for tough swarm matchups like Elves), would swap Settle the Wreckage for Flaying Tendrils.

I realize this is quite a few recommendations, but overall your build is pretty solid. Good luck with the adjustments

Quote from pzbw7z »

Quote from Cube_ »

@pzbw7z: Thanks that explanation was perfect. I totally get it now.

Don't forget to tip your waiter!

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