This is the most recent version of my Knights deck with the Champ. Of course, when I play a Cavern, I say "Humans", not "Knights". The deck does about as well as anything else I play although I'm hoping for better things with my new Jund pile.
Take the sideboard with a grain of salt; it's tuned for one of the places I play.
I've played the Champ with an all-human cast of Knights for months. He's great early; perhaps better on turn one than Student of Warfare. He's not so great as a top deck but he might still be the second best all-around one-drop creature available. He does catch a lot of bullets, but that's not a criticism; something is going to catch them and if they have to use it on your one-drop they don't have it for your other cards.
Yes, I still think it may be worth it, but i never tested it actually. I'm not playing the deck in this period but if I did I'd love to put it in the list. Considering there are 5 wizards as of now (and all of them pretty good with the land) and a bunch of tutors, it's easy for it to have a big impact on a game. Probably ISB is right when he says that 5 is not quite enough wizards and that the land by itself is useless (also colorless lands should stay at a minimum), but the opportunity cost of adding it doesn't seem really too high to me, and the gain can win you games. Not 100% sold of course, and that's why I thought adding another target (Azami, wich also needs to be protected) could seal the deal. Hasn't anyone tried it already?
Actually, I have. The above wasn't just theory, rather from experience. Snapcaster was re-cocked several times last night and later Magus of the Future ripped out before a Supreme Verdict and then later still there beside Glen Elendra was Archaeomancer with Cyclonic Rift in the graveyard. It was Magic-Christmasland!
And then we ran out of time. . .
Flicker effects are usually better for ETB creatures, but Riptide works at instant speed and sometimes - as in the case of Snapcaster or perhaps Venser, Shaper Savant - you really want a bounce.
The OP has fewer Wizards than I do, so perhaps he's right to avoid it, but I'm just out for fun and - to me at least - Riptide is a hoot! And it's pretty cheap at $5 or less on eBay.
In fact, I have enough Wizards that I run Cavern of Souls for them and I'm even thinking of trying Diviner's Wand - it's fun to draw cards!
Minamo, School at Water's Edge its a possible addition to the deck. I dont see a lot of difference in having it in my list though really as when it comes to defending myself from random attacks I generally just have road bump ETB creatures and can race them with Jenara so most people dont randomly poke me with creatures. It does have additional synergy with Azami but looking at just Jenara then I guess its an option but not something I am generally worried about. I did strip out all but one basic land last night thanks to a turn 4 Karametra, God of Harvests so deluting too far in the basic count can hurt as far as fetches and land searching goes as well as if you play against ruination effects but outside of that stuff I agree that the downsides are relatively small but I think the upsides are also relatively small.
Azami - I really like her as a creature but I just didn't feel like I had that many wizards as a whole. I think of the times I saw her, I had issues casting her when I would start with her and I think I got her in play with one other wizard once all in all. I think she is a possibility but I just prefer the flexibility and fire and forget mentality of Mulldrifter over her at the moment.
Untapping Kor Haven can be worth the price of admission. Admittedly, Minamo shines with things like Arcanis the Omnipotent or Ertai, Wizard Adept but even just straightening a big, ole blocker sometimes is rewarding.
Azami definitely likes other wizards but Minamo's value is in proportion to the number of legendary cards.
Minamo certainly has cooler art than most Islands!
Mulldrifter -> Azami, Lady of Scrolls the concept was that it azami gives me half the same value on her own immediately and can potentially give me more value over time or if I have wizards in play. After some testing I think I got her into play / hand a 2-3 times. She immediately drew some hate and usually died quickly. She is also far more awkward in an opening hand because of her UUU cost. Overall I felt like I was trying far too hard to make her work in my testing and mulldrifter is just so damn versatile in an opening hand. I ended up discontinuing this testing as it just felt like I was being hindered too much by her expensive blue cost and she was too hard to get to stick.
Obviously, the appeal of Azami, Lady of Scrolls increases with more wizards and - oh my - are there wizards in Bant colors. She is one of the main things that attracted me to the Bant pre-con in the first place. She's also one of the few cards left from the pre-con!
As it stands, I dont have intentions of including anything from Journey in this deck at this time.
First of all, thanks for this thread; I've referred to it often and it's been a great help.
One wonder's if Dictate of Karametra - which you didn't mention, unless I missed it - couldn't be useful in setting up the infinite-turn combo. One could play it on the end phase prior to one's own turn and then go off, perhaps earlier than otherwise possible. Both it and Dictate of Kruphix would be insane if one had a good, re-useable means to bounce them.
What do you fellows think of Mutagenic Growth in G/W Knights? In my mind, it's very useful as a means of saving a creature from a mean-spirited Lightning Bolt, but it's also certainly a useful combat trick. And who doesn't love a good combat trick?
Since most Knights decks are mostly comprised of Human Knights, how do you feel about Champion of the Parish? You've got to admit, he's got a cool hat!
Take the sideboard with a grain of salt; it's tuned for one of the places I play.
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Mutavault
11 Plains
4 Aether Vial
4 Brave the Elements
4 Path to Exile
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Day of Judgement
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Well, I've never been to Spain. . .
Sorry, I can never resist.
Actually, I have. The above wasn't just theory, rather from experience. Snapcaster was re-cocked several times last night and later Magus of the Future ripped out before a Supreme Verdict and then later still there beside Glen Elendra was Archaeomancer with Cyclonic Rift in the graveyard. It was Magic-Christmasland!
And then we ran out of time. . .
Flicker effects are usually better for ETB creatures, but Riptide works at instant speed and sometimes - as in the case of Snapcaster or perhaps Venser, Shaper Savant - you really want a bounce.
The OP has fewer Wizards than I do, so perhaps he's right to avoid it, but I'm just out for fun and - to me at least - Riptide is a hoot! And it's pretty cheap at $5 or less on eBay.
In fact, I have enough Wizards that I run Cavern of Souls for them and I'm even thinking of trying Diviner's Wand - it's fun to draw cards!
Snapcaster Mage and Riptide Laboratory together is livin' the dream! Archaeomancer also goes well with it. And Glen Elendra Archmage? Absolutely bonkers.
If you've got a handful of good wizards, it's a lovely card. Snapcaster alone can make you glad you brought Riptide.
Untapping Kor Haven can be worth the price of admission. Admittedly, Minamo shines with things like Arcanis the Omnipotent or Ertai, Wizard Adept but even just straightening a big, ole blocker sometimes is rewarding.
Azami definitely likes other wizards but Minamo's value is in proportion to the number of legendary cards.
Minamo certainly has cooler art than most Islands!
Obviously, the appeal of Azami, Lady of Scrolls increases with more wizards and - oh my - are there wizards in Bant colors. She is one of the main things that attracted me to the Bant pre-con in the first place. She's also one of the few cards left from the pre-con!
Minamo, School at Water's Edge is a delightful complement to Azami and there's really not much of a down-side.
First of all, thanks for this thread; I've referred to it often and it's been a great help.
One wonder's if Dictate of Karametra - which you didn't mention, unless I missed it - couldn't be useful in setting up the infinite-turn combo. One could play it on the end phase prior to one's own turn and then go off, perhaps earlier than otherwise possible. Both it and Dictate of Kruphix would be insane if one had a good, re-useable means to bounce them.
You're right about Brave the Elements outperforming Ajani's Presence. The latter could at best supplement the former, but not replace it.
Hero of Bladehold's tokens would not generate additional soldier tokens with Launch The Fleet.
Since most Knights decks are mostly comprised of Human Knights, how do you feel about Champion of the Parish? You've got to admit, he's got a cool hat!
It seems that many of the recent lists posted are using Fiendslayer Paladin. With all the grumbling about Anger of the Gods,is it time to rethink Paladin en-Vec?
I'm thinking it can be a combo-enabler with just little work - probably an extra graveyard recursion card or two. That stuff is often useful anyway.
I'm playing Bant, Frodooftheshire, so I have things to retrieve cards from the 'yard and there are a metric crap-load more available.
In EDH, this thing seems much like Gifts Ungiven and usable in much the same fashion that card would be without the unfortunate ban.
Does anyone run this? To good effect?