Hey people -
Ever since Purphoros was spoiled, I've wanted to break him. He's such a powerful card, and he's basically unanswerable if he hits. I feel like there's a ton of potential, but I'm not sure which direction to go, so I figured Id just present my ideas here.
Option 1: Dega Purphoros
This is the obvious option, but I don't know how powerful it is. Purphoros being on the board turns Lingering Souls in to 8 damage to the face. Young Pyromancer is the nuts. Etc etc. The problem here is you're slow, you want to drop you dudes early so by the time Purphoros hits it might be too late, and a lot of the cards are competing with eachother's ideas.
It plays a ton of powerful cards, and everything synergizes really well. I wanted to avoid playing anything that was only good with purphoros out, because you can only really play 3 of him and he doesnt hit until turn 4 anyways.
I dont know what kind of matchup this would have against teir 1, because of how predictable and methodical it is. Not quite fast or powerful enough, maybe?
Option 2: RW Midrange Purphoros
This is definitely a "danger of cool things" deck. It seems really fun but I feel like it doesn't play enough disruption or have enough steam to pull through. But it can definitely lay the hurt on.
Purphoros synergises really well with his hammer, hasty tokens are scary, Reckoner is great for devotion and giving you time / being beefy. There's no draw and minimal disruption, and I dont know if blood moon fits, but it can potentially win you games on its own and eats enchantment removal that could otherwise hit your hammer or your god.
Option 3: Everything else
I've got a few other ideas floating around (RB suicide purphoros, UR fairy tempo, mono R, etc), but I think these are probably the closest to existing archtypes that could work. Any ideas on how to break this guy?
Berserk293 pretty much summed it up, but just reiterate:
- You're playing exclusively wizards (bad ones) and not taking advantage at all of the tribe. Don't limit yourself to wizard cards if you're not going to use that in some way.
- There is a very good reason you haven't ever seen Counterbalance played in modern. Without library manipulation, it's just a bad card. The opponent wont think "Play or not", the opponent will say "Oh look, he just played an enchantment that doesn't do anything at all, and there is an off-chance he ends up countering maybe 1 of my cards that he had no choice in".
- I don't have anything further to add about Realm Wright. Its an absolutely abysmal card and you're playing mono color, state you 'play to win', and dont play a single fetch/dual.
I'd be willing to spend a little more time providing feedback, but I'm not really sure you have the right mindset here. You talk about being serious and competitive and then present an overwhelmingly casual deck. Are you on a strict budget, do you care more about the flavor and feel of the deck then winning, or have you not tested this at all? It's gotta be one of those three, and once we know we can help better
Not being a mod, my guess would be that it hasn't posted any significant results in a long time. It's a weak RDW right now, and everyone online realizes that. Its draw was that it didn't cost anything to build, but you can build mono-R RDW for under $20-40 total that does what goblins does but (arguably, of course) better, so its lost its player base and results.
Also, this thread kind of lost popularity/activity.
There's a list on the forum of different criteria decks have to meet to be considered established. You could go find that if you want more info.
I think Sideboard could improve these match ups quite a bit.
What are you thinking about as a SB? Red doesnt have... the best sideboard options out there. We aren't playing an archtype that allows us unusually effective unconventional sideboard options, at least not that I can think of.
And a sideboard isn't going to fix a core failing of the deck. I'm not saying that this deck is destined to fail, just that currently we are left with an idea, and a list that is over half not-modern-legal, where some of the most important cards are out.
The problem here is a huge part of that archtype in legacy is landing a turn 2 blood moon / magus using Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors / Chrome mox. We just can't do that in modern, we lose nearly all of our accelerators, and are left with... SSG? Its so important to get your moon effect out before they drop more than one creature or have time to use their fetches to grab their basics, so we're gonna be at a significant disadvantage in trying to port.
That, and burn + affinity are both very prelevant decks in this meta, and neither of them care about moon effects. Then again, trini/chalice has the potential to screw both of them, we just need to figure out if its possible to get them out fast enough for it to matter.
The whole premise of this deck is a pretty backwards. Evolve is completely anti-synergistic with itsself. Once one dude gets evolved once, none of your other evolve guys are going to trigger him, because they're so small when you play them. Evolve is a mechanic best used on one or two small guys in a deck full of otherwise bigger guys, so you can constantly trigger it when you play your other beaters. See Experiment One in Gruul Aggro. You're playing a few proliferate / pump effects that end up being hugely weaker than just playing goyfs/Loxodon Hierarch/other better guys.
I'm not saying you have to copy tourny decks; me, and a few others on here, have been winning plenty of events with decks that have yet to turn up in the big scene. And if you don't care about being competitive, have fun! I just saw you say "tournament deck" and "evolve deck" in the same sentence and got a little wary.
This deck seems to increasingly be doing a lot of similar things. Its just aggro based and not combo based. Since you're already running slate and stuff, maybe you could stick pili in there for potential literal infinite mana? Your "combo out" doesnt kill, but if you're playing masticore maybe it could.
Seems to me like the OP just had a somewhat overly-childish reaction to getting called out for breaking the rules. Huge red text and "never coming back here"? Dude, you swore, there are very blatant and explicit rules telling you not to, and its not like you got banned or anything. Relax.
On topic of the deck, I think 4 of each walker may be a little much. It looks like you're going for card advantage UB control, but when you play 12 walkers, you're too often left with duplicates in your hand / not enough answers. Maybe cutting the number of each down to 3 would give you more room for cards that answer landed threats.
I love goblins more than anything, but I think right now we're in a tough spot. We're not fast enough to race combo and have no real answers for tron. We can sometimes race jund and pod before they win, and we have a little more staying power than RDW, but once they get a Ooze landed and pumping all the gobs your dumping the GY (or a deathrite), its just tough.
Basically, we're a little slower and a little more consistant variant of RDW and I don't know if that's an optimal meta choice right now.
Just a quick update. This is what I've been testing. I tried to make it as consistant and protected as possible, instead of going for a very fast and very inconsistant combo win. This list basically can slowplay until you are very very protected and win, or you can go balls out if you know your opponent is playing something without answers, or whatever. Considering making some of the manabase black for discard in SB vs Abrupt Decay.
The wurmcoils are laughably easy to cast in this, I just couldn't really find room for more MD.
Something to note is its important to have a 2cc kill AND a 3cc kill, that way each of your transmutes can find either a combo peice or a kill. Drift is awesome because a 0/5 flying wall buys you so much time early, and he's a tutor late.
Its late and I am tired, but I like zombies and wanted to pass this idea along. BG Rock w/ Zombie Shell. Aggressive Gulgari Zombies with hand control is imo exceptionally brutal and synergistic. Plus, Green + Black have great field control cards. I would post a list, but really its just Zombies + Deathrite Shaman + Rock Support Spells.
That's basically what the article posted above (right here) was saying.
The list, using that article and my experience, that you might want to run if you want RockZombie (which is a kind of awesome name):
This combo popped up in the "blue ramp" thread, and I figured it was nifty, cheap, and potentially abusable.
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Pili is garbage on his own, but arcitect doesn't have to be, and there's potentially other combos with him. I couldn't really find any poking around, but I figured if we put them in a powerful shell with decent counter and draw, it might work. This is purely theoretical, but what about something like:
Just enough meat and burn and counters to enable you to play a normal game, drawing all the while, until you randomly just win with your protected combo. I kinda want to add Delver in there, but if we have too many cards that don't draw cards or counter, our combo is just too slow and vulnerable.
The main problem card here is obviously Abrupt Decay. Ideally we can combo out twice, or force them to use it on something else. Also, the majority of decks that play decay don't even play a playset. My only suggestion if this proves to be a huge problem is splash black for some discard in place of the burn?
What'dya think? I heard something like this existed before and poked around but couldn't find anything. I like the idea of cheap game-winning combos tucked away in an otherwise competitive shell.
EDIT: Played a few games. Works well, is hilarious, but I would sometimes get the combo out and not have anything to do with the mana (even after dumping all card draw in my hand). Added in a single comet storm with Muddle the Mixture. Its a decent counter, and now we can transmute for a kill.
Just a couple of cards I commonly see in brews very similar to this: Deathrite Shaman fixes for all your colors, is reach, lifegain, and gravehate. Xathrid Necromancer turns every creature in to card advantage. Basically more bodies when all your bodies are small is really good. Falkenrath Aristocrat is your finisher when you otherwise don't have any (save equips, which may be good enough).
Cards I don't normally see in a deck like this: Saffi Eriksdotter. This seems... unusual. Here's usually in decks to trigger enter-the-graveyard, or protect big finishers. You dont have either of those. How good has he been in testing? I can see protecting your 2-of crusader but that's nearly it.
I'm not saying make all (or any) of these changes, just things to consider.
Ever since Purphoros was spoiled, I've wanted to break him. He's such a powerful card, and he's basically unanswerable if he hits. I feel like there's a ton of potential, but I'm not sure which direction to go, so I figured Id just present my ideas here.
Option 1: Dega Purphoros
This is the obvious option, but I don't know how powerful it is. Purphoros being on the board turns Lingering Souls in to 8 damage to the face. Young Pyromancer is the nuts. Etc etc. The problem here is you're slow, you want to drop you dudes early so by the time Purphoros hits it might be too late, and a lot of the cards are competing with eachother's ideas.
3 Purphoros, god of the forge
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Dark Confidant
3 Tidehollow Sculler
Spells (22):
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Lingering Souls
3 Path to Exile
3 Gather the Townsfolk
3 Lightning Helix
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
3 Liliana of the Veil
Land (22):
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
3 Godless Shrine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
It plays a ton of powerful cards, and everything synergizes really well. I wanted to avoid playing anything that was only good with purphoros out, because you can only really play 3 of him and he doesnt hit until turn 4 anyways.
I dont know what kind of matchup this would have against teir 1, because of how predictable and methodical it is. Not quite fast or powerful enough, maybe?
Option 2: RW Midrange Purphoros
This is definitely a "danger of cool things" deck. It seems really fun but I feel like it doesn't play enough disruption or have enough steam to pull through. But it can definitely lay the hurt on.
3 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Vexing Devil
4 Figure of Destiny
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Spectral Procession
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Searing Blaze
3 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Blood Moon
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Mountain
3 Plains
Purphoros synergises really well with his hammer, hasty tokens are scary, Reckoner is great for devotion and giving you time / being beefy. There's no draw and minimal disruption, and I dont know if blood moon fits, but it can potentially win you games on its own and eats enchantment removal that could otherwise hit your hammer or your god.
Option 3: Everything else
I've got a few other ideas floating around (RB suicide purphoros, UR fairy tempo, mono R, etc), but I think these are probably the closest to existing archtypes that could work. Any ideas on how to break this guy?
- You're playing exclusively wizards (bad ones) and not taking advantage at all of the tribe. Don't limit yourself to wizard cards if you're not going to use that in some way.
- There is a very good reason you haven't ever seen Counterbalance played in modern. Without library manipulation, it's just a bad card. The opponent wont think "Play or not", the opponent will say "Oh look, he just played an enchantment that doesn't do anything at all, and there is an off-chance he ends up countering maybe 1 of my cards that he had no choice in".
- I don't have anything further to add about Realm Wright. Its an absolutely abysmal card and you're playing mono color, state you 'play to win', and dont play a single fetch/dual.
I'd be willing to spend a little more time providing feedback, but I'm not really sure you have the right mindset here. You talk about being serious and competitive and then present an overwhelmingly casual deck. Are you on a strict budget, do you care more about the flavor and feel of the deck then winning, or have you not tested this at all? It's gotta be one of those three, and once we know we can help better
Also, this thread kind of lost popularity/activity.
There's a list on the forum of different criteria decks have to meet to be considered established. You could go find that if you want more info.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=529693
What are you thinking about as a SB? Red doesnt have... the best sideboard options out there. We aren't playing an archtype that allows us unusually effective unconventional sideboard options, at least not that I can think of.
And a sideboard isn't going to fix a core failing of the deck. I'm not saying that this deck is destined to fail, just that currently we are left with an idea, and a list that is over half not-modern-legal, where some of the most important cards are out.
That, and burn + affinity are both very prelevant decks in this meta, and neither of them care about moon effects. Then again, trini/chalice has the potential to screw both of them, we just need to figure out if its possible to get them out fast enough for it to matter.
I'm not saying you have to copy tourny decks; me, and a few others on here, have been winning plenty of events with decks that have yet to turn up in the big scene. And if you don't care about being competitive, have fun! I just saw you say "tournament deck" and "evolve deck" in the same sentence and got a little wary.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=541838
This deck seems to increasingly be doing a lot of similar things. Its just aggro based and not combo based. Since you're already running slate and stuff, maybe you could stick pili in there for potential literal infinite mana? Your "combo out" doesnt kill, but if you're playing masticore maybe it could.
On topic of the deck, I think 4 of each walker may be a little much. It looks like you're going for card advantage UB control, but when you play 12 walkers, you're too often left with duplicates in your hand / not enough answers. Maybe cutting the number of each down to 3 would give you more room for cards that answer landed threats.
Basically, we're a little slower and a little more consistant variant of RDW and I don't know if that's an optimal meta choice right now.
4 Pili-Pala
4 Grand Architect
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Spellskite
3 Drift of Phantasms
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Spells:
4 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Think Twice
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Spell Snare
3 Serum Visions
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Exsanguinate
19 Island
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Drift of Phantasms
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Dispel
2 Negate
4 Spreading Seas
2 Vapor Snag
The wurmcoils are laughably easy to cast in this, I just couldn't really find room for more MD.
Something to note is its important to have a 2cc kill AND a 3cc kill, that way each of your transmutes can find either a combo peice or a kill. Drift is awesome because a 0/5 flying wall buys you so much time early, and he's a tutor late.
That's basically what the article posted above (right here) was saying.
The list, using that article and my experience, that you might want to run if you want RockZombie (which is a kind of awesome name):
4 Death Baron
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Gravecrawler
3 Geralf's Messenger
3 Lotleth Troll
3 Putrid Leech
2 Cemetery Reaper
3 Dismember
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Go for the Throat
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Equips (2):
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Woodland Cemetery
4 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Maybe not idea but just for people that don't wanna click on the link.
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Pili is garbage on his own, but arcitect doesn't have to be, and there's potentially other combos with him. I couldn't really find any poking around, but I figured if we put them in a powerful shell with decent counter and draw, it might work. This is purely theoretical, but what about something like:
4 Grand Architect
4 Pili-pala
3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (24):
4 Remand
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Electrolyze
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Spell Snare
2 Izzet Charm
2 Think Twice
2 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Comet Storm
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Arid Mesa
5 Island
2 Mountain
Just enough meat and burn and counters to enable you to play a normal game, drawing all the while, until you randomly just win with your protected combo. I kinda want to add Delver in there, but if we have too many cards that don't draw cards or counter, our combo is just too slow and vulnerable.
The main problem card here is obviously Abrupt Decay. Ideally we can combo out twice, or force them to use it on something else. Also, the majority of decks that play decay don't even play a playset. My only suggestion if this proves to be a huge problem is splash black for some discard in place of the burn?
What'dya think? I heard something like this existed before and poked around but couldn't find anything. I like the idea of cheap game-winning combos tucked away in an otherwise competitive shell.
EDIT: Played a few games. Works well, is hilarious, but I would sometimes get the combo out and not have anything to do with the mana (even after dumping all card draw in my hand). Added in a single comet storm with Muddle the Mixture. Its a decent counter, and now we can transmute for a kill.
Deathrite Shaman fixes for all your colors, is reach, lifegain, and gravehate.
Xathrid Necromancer turns every creature in to card advantage. Basically more bodies when all your bodies are small is really good.
Falkenrath Aristocrat is your finisher when you otherwise don't have any (save equips, which may be good enough).
Cards I don't normally see in a deck like this:
Saffi Eriksdotter. This seems... unusual. Here's usually in decks to trigger enter-the-graveyard, or protect big finishers. You dont have either of those. How good has he been in testing? I can see protecting your 2-of crusader but that's nearly it.
I'm not saying make all (or any) of these changes, just things to consider.