Lethal Vapors + Teferi's Protection + krosan grip = infinite disappear and wait for your opponents to deck themselves from drawing for turn, krosan grip to destroy while you hold priority so your opponents don't one for one you on the missing turns
How does this work, exactly?
You activate Lethal Vapors many, many times, then respond to those activations with Krosan Grip so that your opponents can't activate it and also skip turns. Then Teferi's Protection to be untouchable during those turns. It's like putting yourself in suspended animation to outlive your opponents.
I saw it in an Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim deck inspired by the BLAME! manga that did a lot of search-opponent-library-exile to make sure opponents were stripped of ways to recycle their libraries to 'survive' those many turns. The thread has since been deleted, though.
Your opponents can wait for Krogan Grip to resolve before activating it to the same value that you did, and if they all do that then the game goes back to normal.
Only if you can upgrade another Flying Man. Most of mine are either relevant in some other way like being a rogue or faerie or aren't just a plain Flying Men. I could probably replace Jace's Phantasm though, and the minimal value that Artificer's Assistant could provide is better than nothing.
In my opinion, your idea of competitive might be a little skewed. While I too love the work that Jay has put into Don Krenko there's still so much that can be done. For example, I see one mana rock which isn't a 0-drop; that whole cycle could be added to push out dudes sooner. I see no wheel effects what so ever and those are amazing in if not every deck with red then at least all-in ones like this one. I don't see any fetch lands which help to thin a deck, and the life loss is negligible since we should be winning in a couple turns.
Now again, I don't hate the deck what so ever; you'll even see at least one post of mine in this thread. I've even built this deck and it's sitting about 10 feet from me right now just itching for some NZT. I have a good idea of what I want to do with it but project-wise things like work unfortunately take priority.
As for your suggestions, you may be misguided on some of them. As a rule of thumb you want to lower the average converted mana cost of your cards to improve your deck, not increase it, so something like Thermopod over the altar is not that great. Likewise, Drillmaster is much worse than Hammer because it takes a turn before you can use it and is subject to more common removal found in EDH. We also need to protect our important assets, like all of our solid goblins, so any way we can protect them is great. Need for Speed could actually be good because you only need to give Krenko haste once because after that that we should be winning or have won.
There's a difference between cards like Second Wind and Dragon Mantle. One clearly says "enchanted creature has" and the other doesn't. I'm guessing that's where the confusion was, but it's a very silly thing to miss.
Would you care to elaborate then? Because here's how it currently works.
-King Macar has 'Inspired (when it becomes uptapped) - Exile target creature. If you do, create a gold token.'
-Second Wind has 'Enchant creature. T: Tap enchanted creature. T: Untap enchanted creature.'
>In case there's confusion at this point, from gatherer: These abilities are abilities of the Aura, not abilities granted to the creature. Only the Aura’s controller can activate them.
So you get King Macar tapped somehow, maybe by attacking, but the point is he's tapped. You activate the second ability of Second Wind and put 'Untap King Macar on the stack.' The ability resolves. Inspired asks you to pick a target, which you do. Exile + Gold trigger on the stack. The ability resolves.
Now here is the current board state:
>There is one fewer creature on the battlefield
>You have one more Gold token
>King Macar is untapped
>Second Wind is tapped.
So congrats, you've successfully used a single ability of an aura and gotten use out of King Macar now instead of during your upkeep. What more is there to know?
seems slow tbh. 3 CMC is the top of the curve in most cases --- therefore, in the early game, you're tapping out instead of pressing the board or providing protection/counters. Plus, you have to wait a turn in order to benefit from Gaea's Cradle type mana (flips EoT).
From another post about this card:
No, I don't think Growing Ritea makes sense [in a lot of decks] for the following reasons: 1) the commander is better CA than this card, 2) casting often means spending a turn essentially doing nothing, and 3) the enchantment will never flip.
If you ever cast this and don't immediately flip it then you've just time walked yourself, and I imagine that to be the standard with thiscard in this deck
I was thinking it would be to slow in edric but wanted to see what the consensus was. Seems like it would be really good in a more good stuff list for edric but in the weenies list the first part of it isn't useful. I am going to try one out in rhys though seems like it would be a house in that.
Competitively speaking, it's too slow. It's great when you're ahead, but if you're ahead then you don't need it. When you're behind (or in regular time, but who does that) it can be a time walk as little use comes of it with its EtB.
Plus you don't "exile all creatures you want" either. It's entries like this that make me want to rework the database as a whole because of the definitions of synergy and combo.
-While listed in the synergy section, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf + Sadistic Hypnotist is a combo because they are cards that go well together as you can make everyone hellbent on your turn, thereby making a strong synergy.
-Kiki + Zealous Conscripts is an infinite combo because you get any number of Zealous Conscripts you would like.
-Things like King Macar, the Gold-Cursed + Second Wind is a synergy because you are making an effect that's greater than the sum of its parts because you're not just untapping a creature with the aura since you're getting a benefit out of the interaction outside of it just becoming untapped. To me, this kind of thing is on the same level as in the 'WHEN POSTING SUGGESTIONS' section of the OP; 'Omniscience + spells' or 'Borgyborgyborgy + lands' aren't combos either because you're just playing cards together. There's no 'greater sum' created.
The point is, things can probably be reclassified like 'infinite combo' and 'combo' because of this reason. I'd almost consider 'Edric + creatures with evasion (flying, unblockable, etc.)' more of a combo because you are heavily exploiting his ability and not just hoping you connect. havocentral (I'm unsure how to tag a user) mentioned something like this back in February. I may do something like it, but it would take time.
I'm waiting for work to give me a hot minute to breath, for people to format their posts in a way that makes my part easier, and for people to stop spelling 'synergy' incorrectly.
Hey Jay, at some point I'm going to take the time to spike the ***** out of this deck. I'm sure it could benefit from some fast mana and other annoyingly-expensive cards that will allow it to combo off around turns 2-3 while under a Blood Moon effect. Once I have a list I'll post it.
Your opponents can wait for Krogan Grip to resolve before activating it to the same value that you did, and if they all do that then the game goes back to normal.
You would die to the last draw trigger unless you had LabMan or some sort of Stifle effect.
Now again, I don't hate the deck what so ever; you'll even see at least one post of mine in this thread. I've even built this deck and it's sitting about 10 feet from me right now just itching for some NZT. I have a good idea of what I want to do with it but project-wise things like work unfortunately take priority.
As for your suggestions, you may be misguided on some of them. As a rule of thumb you want to lower the average converted mana cost of your cards to improve your deck, not increase it, so something like Thermopod over the altar is not that great. Likewise, Drillmaster is much worse than Hammer because it takes a turn before you can use it and is subject to more common removal found in EDH. We also need to protect our important assets, like all of our solid goblins, so any way we can protect them is great. Need for Speed could actually be good because you only need to give Krenko haste once because after that that we should be winning or have won.
-King Macar has 'Inspired (when it becomes uptapped) - Exile target creature. If you do, create a gold token.'
-Second Wind has 'Enchant creature. T: Tap enchanted creature. T: Untap enchanted creature.'
>In case there's confusion at this point, from gatherer: These abilities are abilities of the Aura, not abilities granted to the creature. Only the Aura’s controller can activate them.
So you get King Macar tapped somehow, maybe by attacking, but the point is he's tapped. You activate the second ability of Second Wind and put 'Untap King Macar on the stack.' The ability resolves. Inspired asks you to pick a target, which you do. Exile + Gold trigger on the stack. The ability resolves.
Now here is the current board state:
>There is one fewer creature on the battlefield
>You have one more Gold token
>King Macar is untapped
>Second Wind is tapped.
So congrats, you've successfully used a single ability of an aura and gotten use out of King Macar now instead of during your upkeep. What more is there to know?
Competitively speaking, it's too slow. It's great when you're ahead, but if you're ahead then you don't need it. When you're behind (or in regular time, but who does that) it can be a time walk as little use comes of it with its EtB.
75% builds? Probably great.
Plus you don't "exile all creatures you want" either. It's entries like this that make me want to rework the database as a whole because of the definitions of synergy and combo.
-While listed in the synergy section, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf + Sadistic Hypnotist is a combo because they are cards that go well together as you can make everyone hellbent on your turn, thereby making a strong synergy.
-Kiki + Zealous Conscripts is an infinite combo because you get any number of Zealous Conscripts you would like.
-Things like King Macar, the Gold-Cursed + Second Wind is a synergy because you are making an effect that's greater than the sum of its parts because you're not just untapping a creature with the aura since you're getting a benefit out of the interaction outside of it just becoming untapped. To me, this kind of thing is on the same level as in the 'WHEN POSTING SUGGESTIONS' section of the OP; 'Omniscience + spells' or 'Borgyborgyborgy + lands' aren't combos either because you're just playing cards together. There's no 'greater sum' created.
The point is, things can probably be reclassified like 'infinite combo' and 'combo' because of this reason. I'd almost consider 'Edric + creatures with evasion (flying, unblockable, etc.)' more of a combo because you are heavily exploiting his ability and not just hoping you connect. havocentral (I'm unsure how to tag a user) mentioned something like this back in February. I may do something like it, but it would take time.