MTG Salvation

Back from the FNM. Played against UB Fairies, Mono U tron , Blue devotion. New notes:

Unsettled Mariner felt bit lackluster since people would just end up play around it. Might want to play this along Curscatcheror or save the UW version for interaction heavy metas.

A few nice interactions happened with vialing Sygg and then activating protection against removal.

Didnt pulled any Teferi so i cannot gauge its usefulness.

Force was, as expected, great: beign able to tapout and then counter a T4 Ugin it where its at. Being able to answer EE was crucial too.

Manabase was fine. I played three blue decks so yeah i would have loved a cavern of souls or two.

So, not too sure what to think of this first run. I'll try the list some more online but i'm on the fence about mariner. If anything I might keep at least Sygg and the 4 wanderwines. I really liked this card.

Quote from rothgar13 »

I'm doing pretty well without either of those cards, though they will of course help.

On the subject of MTGSalvation's closure and what that means for the primer, I'll be migrating the information over to a Google document. Please be patient, as some reformatting will be required during the transition.

I've been playing around with (proxies of) Force of Negation and Unsetteled Mariner with quite interesting results so far. Looking at your Simic list makes me want to give this one a go:



I might want to make space for the extra seas since this list isn't getting the extra from Mistbinder, but at the same time First strke and Lifelink might just do it to let them through or force the opponent to chump.

I do agree that word is strong. However, having a source of stable/constant draw is always been something I believe our archetype needs to really push to the highest tiers.

I mean, that same vehicle with islandwalk or a Merfolk subtype...

There is also the need of a strictly better Deprive, but we're most likely getting that in June

Quote from rothgar13 »

We've been testing Benthic Biomancer, and I must say that I'm impressed. I was initially skeptical, but it's nice to have a 1-drop to curve out with again, and the loot has been pretty darn good (turning a topdecked Vial or a late land into a live draw never gets old). It's also freed my curve up to test bigger counterspells like Mana Leak, which has also been impressive. This is the list I've been jamming of late. It's preliminary, but I feel good about it.

Gave a shot at your list yesterday, for a 6th place finish @ 3-1. Only difference is -3 island, +1 Cavern, Minamo and Oboro. Gotta say Benthic Biomancer made a small difference every matches.

Match 1 vs Phoenix in the Ice (2-1) - Basically Tricksters and Harbingers did their job.

Match 2 vs UW control (1-2) - Lost game 3 to Sphinx of the Final Word, pretty much. Managed to pull off a Benthic Bionancer Adapt draw into Clique to block it while threatening lethal, but in the end, had all the (now uncounterable) answers. He got all his fields of ruin to keep mutavaults and cavern in check too.

Match 3 vs BW Eldrazi Aggro (2-0) - 3 spreading seas game 1 (thanks Benthic Biomancer for cycling that extra Vial) and my opponent mana screwing game 2

Match 4 vs 8 Rack (2-1) - Notable moment was when I kept an Island + Cavern + 2 Deprive hand game 2...of course Bridge came out turn 3 with no second island on the board for me. Game 3 Opponent didn't get enough gas to pick all the bounce and counters I had in hand.


Biomancer was a nice addition all around. Enjoying this list quite a bit too. Mana leak never ended up a dead card either, not even cycled to Biomancer once.

Quote from Xaricore »

I do admit, Merfolk right now is really good against most decks. Only two decks I have issues with is Tron and Affinity.

Only thing about Tron that annoys me is three cards: Ancient Stirrings, Oblivion Stone, and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Ancient Stirrings is honestly what makes the deck hard to deal with. The can find their answers to our board too quickly. Sure, I run 4 sideboard Sea's Claim but usually is not enough to deal with.

Affinity is really just a match to where can I out aggro the other aggro deck? Games 2 and possibly 3 is, I need to draw sideboard hate and fast.

What does everyone else think is the bane for Merfolk in our current meta?

As a Tron player myself I can tell you this is where Spell pierce and Deprive will help you much more than sea's claim.

You switch to being proactive and Pierce Stirrings, Sylvan scrying and even Expedition map in order to deny them T3/4 Tron. Echoing Truth helps as well to get an extra turn on an OStone.

If you seem to have trouble in a heavy Tron and Affinity meta you may want to consider ceremonious rejection, which pretty much hits all the cards of both archetypes.

Quote from FANAttIC »

Merfolk in Standard is waiting for Rivals.

Indeed: Professor at TCC just spoiled Silvergill Adept...in full art...as the Open House promo card...

Quote from Ashiok »

Potential replacement for echoing truth?

Personally the main reason I use Echoing Thruth is because it allows me to bounce multiples, which can be quite efficient against (infinite) token creatures, three goyfs on the board, etc.

Trading that off for potentially scry 2? Not sure it's worth it.

Went 2-1-1 yesterday at my LGS, didn't managed to write down all the details but here is what I recall.

List courtesy of FANAttIC


Match 1 vs UW Control Gifts w/ Tron pieces
G1: My opponent managed to Gift + Burial Iona, which I double dismember. The Merfolks do the rest.
G2: Grindy game. Ghostly Prison and eventually Elesh Norn comes on his side. I copy it with Phantasmal Image, then Dismembers his Norn and proceed to vial Lord and a Mow. Huge Miscalculation on my part makes me let him keep a path to exile through Gifts - I can swing lethal even without my copied Norn and I want to him tap out of counterspell mana so I can safely Echo his Prison...instead I screw myself of one Mutavault activation and leave him with 1 life. He gets control of the board with Timely Reinforcments and more removal/board wipe and I end up losing.
G3: Either of us can get the kill in time. Draw

-4 Harbinger
+2 Negate
+2 Relic

Match 2 vs G1: Guy plays arbor elves and utopia spawl, ramps 4 colors and use Bring to Light a green beater, but I Merfolk him to death.

-4 Harbinger
-2 Dismember
+2 Gut Shot
+2 Seas's Claim
+2 Tidebinder Mage

G2: I get control of the board even though he's ramping...then he casts Exarch end of turn and Brings to Light Kiki-Jikki (utopia spawl and bird of paradide for the WUBRG). Catching me off guard. I did get to Gut shot a Bird of Paradise Turn 0, yay!

-2 Kira
-4 Master of Waves
+4 Harbinger
+2 Dismsmber

G3: I keep a 1 Lander w/ 1 Sea's Claim and 2 Cursecatcher, 1 Lords and 2 Dismsmber...and I get my second land only in turn 8...then proceed to draw 3 vials back to Back. I spent my cursecatchers to counter a bring to light, then I got killed by 3 Arbor elves backed by a Glen Elendra Archmage.


Match 3 va Jeskai Delver
I expected a tough match but my opponent was playing the deck for the first time, and was much more midrange than tempo (only removal I saw was Helix and Bolt). Lost G1 to a top draw Boros charm while I had Lethal on the board. G2 and G3 I was able to get merfolks online, thanks to Cavern of Souls online and proceeded to race him, didn't draw any SB piece.

-4 Spreading Seas
+2 Chalice
+2 Negate


Match 4 vs UW Tron w/ Gifts
G1: He keeps a one lander and cannot keep up
G2: He gets Elesh Norn before I can get Two lords in. I managed to stall him by drawing 3 spreading seas back to back (each tron piece gets hit), but cannot draw any answers to Norn before I die.
G3: I get control of the board quick enough and Merfolk him to Death.

-4 Master of Waves
+2 Negate
+2 Relic of Progenitus



Thoughts:

Haven't fought any aggro decks, but the list is for sure viable against combo/control decks....if you do not misplay like I did. I had a lot of fun playing it.
Only change I would make is to cut one harbinger for one extra Phantasmal Image. Need to fight more aggro decks now.

Quote from Venomous72 »

Quote from polaski »

Ah man, not on the water goblin art? Way cooler lol!

I like the pack art better. I do want a playset of the FNM one just for fun tho.

Right now I am trying to decide if I want the foil 7th edition Lord of Atlantis or foil Timeshifted....ugh. I will say it is easier to foil this deck than Jund!

Beta or bust

I'm actually hoping for a new art reprint Eternal Masters. New Frame and Accurate Text.

Quote from remathilis »

As for the non-mythic, non-money cards, I'm hoping for some Animate Dead, Dark Ritual, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell, Lord of Atlantis, maybe even Lord of the Pit. If they are going to give us jank for limited, make it nostalgic jank.

A 100% accurate Lord of Atlantis would be nice....but then I may be (quite) a bit biased...

All Merfolk players are on one discord channel FishMTG, no need for forums.

Hi everyone, just wanted to share my report on my Top-16 run at the SCG Classic this past weekend. Check it out and let me know what you think!

I think it's an easy ban on Temple. Aaron stated that he wanted to keep the deck around while dialing down its efficiency and explosiveness. Banning Eye affects other decks, and having 4 copies of a legendary land in a deck is a solid downside. Just the percentages of having a 4 of in your opener without having multiple copies (aka the downside) are pretty low, and I don't know if any of you guys have played the deck, but it loses HARD when it doesn't have an eldrazi land to play within the first 2 turns. Plus, even a gross opener like Eye plus three eldrazi mimics is easy to deal with when they aren't thought-knoting you or reality smashing you the following turn, which becomes impossible once temple is banned. I don't think that's anymore explosive or unfair than the things affinity does and has been doing for years. Leaving temple in the format still allows some broken hands containing multiple temples, turn 2 thought knots, turn 3 reality smashers, etc.

Quote from arbogames »

I refuse to acknowledge the terrible cycles from Kamigawa or Homelands.

Oh, man, can you imagine..

"I got a Force of Will! What did you get?"
"I got a foil Castle Sengir."

For people still claiming Eye of Ugin is the more busted than Eldrazi Temple for reasons:

Has the power to often produce 4-6 mana per turn and can tutor up threats in the late game.

Counter argument:

Eye doesn't "often" produce 4-6 a turn. It might do that once per game and if you're lucky, twice. It's bad in multiples and doesn't actually add mana on its own. With both, you could power out two Matter Reshaper with one eye and one temple. Without Temple, the only card that would actually happen with is Mimic and that's only if you drew more than one.

As for the tutoring thing, right now as fast as the deck is, how often does the game ever actually get to that point?

"Eye while the stronger on the ability to produce large amounts of mana, the temple is the more broken card because of what Eye does with it. If temple leaves the format the deck stays but becomes less powerful. You will still be able to power out multiple mimics turn 1 which is strong but you won't be able to power out the bigger eldrazi as fast since most of your other lands will produce 1 mana." quoted from a comment on SCG

With temple banned it is still "possible", but FAR more difficult. Turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer would require (Eye + C land + Simian Spirit Guide) or (C land + any land + 2 Spirit Guide). Turn 3 Reality Smasher can be done with (Eye + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + C land). And turn 2 Smasher would require (Eye + C land + 2 Spirit Guide). This is why I think Spirit Guide might also need to go, but less so than temple.

The Spirit Guide route would be more explosive, but would also leave the Eldrazi deck fairly empty handed afterward and a single piece of disruption would ruin their day. Without Spirit Guide though, Chalice of the Void on 1, turn 1 is impossible.

So for this reason, if any piece of fast mana needs to be banned, it should be Temple, not Eye. And possibly also Simian Spirit Guide

Winning PTQ and MKM Series tournaments with 200 and 100 players is ok in my book. These are not Fnm level. Not random top8 with split, pure win.
DS from Germany is also consistent even if his tournaments are 50-60 players range. Do we have active players with better results?
Rietzl is not wasting his breath on Merfolk.

There is small number of Merfolk players who keep on crushing and I like hearing their thoughts. I can embrace or dismiss their advice by myself.

Oh I would never play another deck even if I could afford one We just aren't in the best position right now so it comes down to your individual store meta (mine thankfully has none of that eldrazi bs), but others might not be so lucky.

No need for overreacting with bad cards, we will adapt.

Some info on Phantasmal Image that might be useful for new players;

1. Phantasmal Image is cast as an Illusion, then becomes whatever it clones as it enters the battlefield
-Cavern of Souls on Merfolk does not make Phimage uncounterable (Cavern on "Illusion" does)
-Phimage does not trigger Merrow Reejerey
-Phimage cloning Silvergill is itself when being cast but Silvergill when it enters, so you do not have to reveal a card but do get to draw one

2. Phantasmal Image does not target
-Phimage can clone another Phimage, becoming whatever the first one cloned. This does not make you sac the first one (unless it's legendary of course)
-Kira, Great Glass Spinner does not prevent you from cloning your creatures
-Your opponent can not respond to you choosing a creature to clone. Say you have a Silvergill and a Cursecatcher on board. You cast Phimage, your opponent says ok, and you make a Silvergill; your opponent can not kill the silvergill after (s)he ok'd the cast. However, (s)he can kill the silvergill in response to Phimage being cast, forcing you to copy Cursecatcher instead.
-Related to the above, you do not have to say what you plan to clone before your opponent lets Phimage resolve
-However, watch out when casting Phimage if there is only one creature on the board; they can kill it in response, making your Phimage enter as a 0/0 and die instantly for a 2 for 1

3. Always keep in mind Phantasmal Image's sacrifice effect
-any additional effect to a removal spell targeting Phantasmal Image does not happen, becaue Phimage dies before it resolves and the spell fizzles: you do not get to search a land if it gets Path to Exiled (and it goes to graveyard), you do not take damage if it gets Searing Blooded, and your opponent does not gain 3 life if it gets Lightning Helixed.
-Redirecting a spell targeting Phimage to your Spellskite does not save Phimage, nor does countering the spell. In the same vein, Kira's effect does not protect Phimage at all
-If you have a Lord of Atlantis and a Phimage cloning LoA, and your opponent casts Maelstrom Pulse, if (s)he targets the original LoA, both Phimage and LoA will die. If (s)he targets Phimage, the sacrifice trigger will make Maelstrom Pulse fizzle for having no target, and the original LoA will live.
-You can't untap your Phimage with Merrow Reejerey. It will die and it will be very embarassing

And some other things:
-Kira and Phimage interact weirdly. Example; you control a Kira and a Phimage, your opponent casts Kolaghan's Command shocking Phimage and destroying your aether vial. Kira will counter the spell, but Phimage's sacrifice effect will still trigger because it got targeted. Thus, Phimage dies but Aether Vial does not, as Phimage dies to his sac trigger but Kira countered the spell.
-Phantasmal Image cloning a Mutavault creates a Mutavault land that can tap for mana and that has not been animated yet; if you'd want to block with it right after it got put into play, you will have to pay 1 mana.
-Persist and Phimage are also a bit odd; if you clone a Kitchen Finks for example, and Phimage would die, it goes to the graveyard, returns to the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter, and is able to clone any new creature. It does not become Kitchen Finks again unless you want it to.

-Last point to press importance: be very strict with your Aether Vial activations when playing Phantasmal Image. You tap your vial, pass priority, then put Phimage into play if you want to. Do NOT reveal Phimage before your opponent oks the vial being tapped, and they do NOT get to respond anymore once you put Phimage into play. If you have only one creature on the battlefield, tap your vial, and your opponent responds by killing your creature, you do not have to put Phantasmal Image into play anymore; Aether Vial says "MAY put into play". You can save yourself from a lot of 2 for 1s by knowing the interactions between Vial and Phimage


EDIT: whoa that became a lot more than I intended. I hope it's helpful though

Quote from Saidin311 »

Quote from Zurcamos »

Tasigur isn't in danger of being banned in regular Commander, right? I've been working on a deck for months (with the Prophet, of course). It has yet to even be playtested.

Quote from Saidin311 »

Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.

Um, yes, it does (right now). Read the comments you quoted as they made it abundantly clear. If you don't play Commander or you don't know how, you should refrain from "correcting" people on it.

This is not about commander or not. It's about birds of paradise tapping for mana it can't based on the actual rules of the game. Birds of Paradise cannot generate colorless mana, never have been able to and never will. Rule 4 allowed a Birds of Paradise to generate 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap the birds for a color other than your commanders color identity).

In previous games of commander your birds of paradise could tap for 1 green mana, or 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap your birds to generate black mana in a mono green commander deck).

Since the Rule 4 removal, if you are a mono green commander player, your birds of paradise can now tap for black mana. If you somehow needed or wanted to have black mana.


Colorless and Generic mana are now two separate entities. And a Birds of Paradise has never been able to generate colorless mana.

Last example, you cannot use a Birds of Paradise to generate the C required to cast some of the Eldrazi spells which require colorless mana in Oath of the Gatewatch.

Please understand the rules of magic before trying to "correct" people on it.

C is now different than 1. Your birds in a green deck tapping for black prior to rule 4 removal would generate 1.

Say it with me everybody:

Nothing has ever been able to tap for generic mana. Nothing. Ever.

Generic mana is a cost, but has never been a produceable kind of mana. BoPs previously produced colorless mana if you attempted to produce something outside your color identity. Now they produce whatever color you choose.

At no point did they produce generic mana.