I've been playing Ad Nauseam for years now and just thought of this line that I think should work but just want clarification.
- If you have 2 Angel's Grace and an Ad Nauseam, can you cast Angel's Grace holding priority, cast Ad Nauseam holding priority, then cast another Angel's Grace and have your Ad Nauseam resolve through a counter spell?
I'm assuming since the Angel's Grace is on the bottom of the stack and with how Split Second works, it couldn't be countered.
I've just never seen this discussed on here so hopefully i found a new line with this deck after all these years.
I run 2 Lightning Storm mainboard so Opt really isn't necessary for me, but that makes sense.
Eldrazi Tron is usually a good matchup, so sideboarding 4 Leyline might be correct. I would SB out 4 Bloom and 3 Pact for 4 Leyline, Slaughter Pact, Echoing Truth, and 1 Thoughtseize.
@TomCourtenay: All 4 Lotus Bloom get sideboarded out vs Eldrazi Tron, If you have it on suspend they can just play Chalice on zero to counter it.
@Pidduuu: I play your same 60, except 4 Sleight. I don't think you cut Sleight as it finds Bloom on T1: Why would you sideboard Leyline vs Eldrazi Tron? Also like I said above, I believe it's correct to sideboard out all 4 Bloom vs Eldrazi Tron. Also, is Godhead great vs Lili? I only run 1 so if they have Lili I don't bring it in, but since you have 3 I guess it's not as bad.
- Not worth it to improve Scapeshift matchup, as you'll be making your other matchups worse. If you really wanted to improve it, you would play more Disdainful Stroke, Aven Mindcensor, or Surgical Extraction and maybe try to Thought Scour them to hit a Valakut.
I've seen people play 3 Wraith and 3 Stubborn Denial, how is that going for people. I'm looking to go from 2 to 3 Denial and never thought of cutting a Wraith. I've always loved Wraith as it lets you get out DS fast and lets you keep land light hands.
Thanks. What did stony shut down out of tron? Why us the scapeshift match up unfavourable, please?
- Stony shuts down O-Stone, any of their star/spheres, and expedition map. Landing it early makes it hard for them to get an early Tron and stops them from cantripping or even getting green mana.
- Scapeshift is always bad for any Death Shadow deck, unless others disagree. Thoughseize isn't great cause most of their deck is threats and they top deck better than you. You also have to get super low so Death Shadow puts a clock on them, then Valakut triggers can just finish you off. You can still win, but it is very difficult.
- Played in Order: Mono U Turns(2-0), Jund(2-0), Living End(2-1), Scapeshift(0-2), Scapeshift(1-2), and Mono G Tron(2-1) in the Swiss. Got 8th since I started 3-0 and both loses top 8'd
- Lost to same Scapeshift player in Top 8(friends on same list): Engineered Explosives was rough, as well as sideboard Narnam Renegade and Chamelleon Colossus. Just to many threats to answer.
Some General Thoughts:
- Love the 3 snap/1 lili split. Snap clogs hand some. Ulted Lili twice vs Tron and helped win those games
- Stony Silence was great vs Tron, 2 is probably the right number
- Still couldn't find Spellbomb(came in mail day after) so I played 1 Relic, never cast it, beat Living End cause Tasigur milled 2 Death Shadows
- I would like a 3rd Denial somewhere in the 75, just don't know what to cut
- 2 Disenchant is probably too many, but I want outs to resolved Chalice. Not sure what to do with these
- Stroke was great vs Tron, but I might cut it for the 3rd Denial as it's more useful, any thoughts on this?
- Deck wasn't slow. I actually one game 1 vs storm, but he punted and should have won. Vs Ad Nauseam i had him dead on board and a lili of the veil out, but he top decked an ad nauseam. Affinity got a T2 Etched Champion, and shadow got me with a battle rage.
- I never cast blessed alliance, but I'm not sure. It was mainly for the mirror and burn. It gives me an additional out to Etched Champion which I'm not sure I need with 2 Tendrils, and it's decent vs Eldrazi Tron but post board they bring in Hangarback so not sure how good it is there. I wouldn't mind taking it out of the SB, but I'd still like another card for Burn so I'm hesitant to take it out.
- Geist I never cast, and I'm probably taking it out. I just didnt' have Spellbombs so I had to play something. Brought it in vs Storm and Ad Nauseamm to up the clock. I wanted it mainly for Scapeshift to up the clock. It gets blocked too easily in the mirror. Dispel again I wouldn't have played if I could find another Stubborn Denial. I think it's fine if you are maxed on Denials and want a 5th counter, but I wouldn't play it.
- Affinity in G1 he got Etched Champion T2 on the play. He had two Ravagers and I could only Thoughtseize out one and he went all in on Champion so not much to do there. I think I SB out Lili because I have Souls and Tendrils and don't want to many 3 drops, but I'm not really sure. Game 2 he mulled to six and I had double thoughtseize and he got flooded; fairly easy. Game 3 he had the turn 3 kill with Ravager and Inkmoth, but I had a turn two Stony Silence to shut down his two Citadels and a Plating. Drawing two citadels hurt him there, but I was dead if I didn't have it T2. From there Disenchant into Snap Disenchant ended the game fairly quick.
He did SB in blood moon which I didn't play around, but not sure you really can.
Speaking of SB's, has anyone tried playing a Plains in the SB? I say Enevoldson play one when he went 12-3 at a GP, since it seems good to go up to 20 lands against GQ decks. Is this an option?
Came in 2nd place of a 52 person PPTQ yesterday, going 4-0-2 in the swiss(double drew in), then scooping in the finals for $400. I really wanted the invite, but I was playing B/W Smallpox which is almost unwinnable with 8 edict effects, souls, bitterblossom, etc. Figured I'd take the money as it is a decent amount. Feel bad afterwards by not giving it a chance to win but think it was the right EV play.
Beat Ad Nauseam, Storm, 4c Shadow, and Affinity in the Swiss(losing all 4 game ones on the draw). Beat Merfolk and Eldrazi Tron in Top 8, scooping to Smallpox.
Won't go over each matchup, but just some notes that I had. FYI: store was out of Spellbombs and Stubborn Denials so my SB was a little abnormal.
- Leyline of Sanctity is a little rough, but Liliana was great vs Ad Nauseam. Wouldn't mind a 2nd one in the SB.
- Storm is a pretty easy matchup, not having Spellbomb was rough though, had to bring in Tendrils for Empty.
- Purge and Lilian's Defeat were great against 4c Shadow with Lili, especially with Snapcaster. Wouldn't mind playing one but not much room in SB.
- Stony is a house vs Affinity, but 2 might be unneccessary, I only bring 1 in vs Eldrazi for Ratchet Bomb so maybe 1 is right.
- Merfolk guy SB'd out Seas against me which was great as I hate that card. Just SB'd in all my removal, landed 2 Death Shadow on T2 to win.
- Eldrazi Tron guy flooded, but Snap is so good to buy back Rejection and Denial here.
- I think 4 Snap is a little much, I was happy with 3 and 1 Lili. The deck is low on mana and snap clogged my hand a few times.
- 4/2 Path/Push is correct, just so good in this meta right now
- I think I want another Disenchant just in case Chalice resolves or for Leyline, maybe just an Unmaking?
So Benny cut a land to 25 and now has a Mystic Gate, which seems right as you have 1 less source of colored mana so it helps offset that loss to play Cryptic and Verdict.
Cutting Jace for a Cryptic seems iffy. Jace has always been amazing for me, great vs tokens, card advantage, and a win condition.
I do like Supreme Will as it curves into T4 Verdict which we need a lot of the time and helps find it.
I assume the Surgical's are to help vs the Titanshift match, but other than that and Dredge what matchup does it even come in against.
It's not good enough vs Death Shadow I believe, not good enough vs Goyf decks, and worse vs Dredge. I think 2 Peace and 1 Extraction might be right but I haven't tested it yet. I'm just not seeing what matchup you'd want the Extractions other than Titanshift where Rest in Peace is just better.
Crucible is nice in the control mirrors to attack their manabase, I just don't have the cash to test it right now.
Dispel seems just as good against Control, Combo, and better vs Burn.
Post board games go a little slower, so having a counter that is almost as good but without the large cost seems better.
You can even sideboard it in against Company/Chord decks like Elves/G-W Value Town which Pact is horrible against.
- If you have 2 Angel's Grace and an Ad Nauseam, can you cast Angel's Grace holding priority, cast Ad Nauseam holding priority, then cast another Angel's Grace and have your Ad Nauseam resolve through a counter spell?
I'm assuming since the Angel's Grace is on the bottom of the stack and with how Split Second works, it couldn't be countered.
I've just never seen this discussed on here so hopefully i found a new line with this deck after all these years.
Eldrazi Tron is usually a good matchup, so sideboarding 4 Leyline might be correct. I would SB out 4 Bloom and 3 Pact for 4 Leyline, Slaughter Pact, Echoing Truth, and 1 Thoughtseize.
@Pidduuu: I play your same 60, except 4 Sleight. I don't think you cut Sleight as it finds Bloom on T1: Why would you sideboard Leyline vs Eldrazi Tron? Also like I said above, I believe it's correct to sideboard out all 4 Bloom vs Eldrazi Tron. Also, is Godhead great vs Lili? I only run 1 so if they have Lili I don't bring it in, but since you have 3 I guess it's not as bad.
- Not worth it to improve Scapeshift matchup, as you'll be making your other matchups worse. If you really wanted to improve it, you would play more Disdainful Stroke, Aven Mindcensor, or Surgical Extraction and maybe try to Thought Scour them to hit a Valakut.
I've seen people play 3 Wraith and 3 Stubborn Denial, how is that going for people. I'm looking to go from 2 to 3 Denial and never thought of cutting a Wraith. I've always loved Wraith as it lets you get out DS fast and lets you keep land light hands.
- Stony shuts down O-Stone, any of their star/spheres, and expedition map. Landing it early makes it hard for them to get an early Tron and stops them from cantripping or even getting green mana.
- Scapeshift is always bad for any Death Shadow deck, unless others disagree. Thoughseize isn't great cause most of their deck is threats and they top deck better than you. You also have to get super low so Death Shadow puts a clock on them, then Valakut triggers can just finish you off. You can still win, but it is very difficult.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16376&f=MO
- Played in Order: Mono U Turns(2-0), Jund(2-0), Living End(2-1), Scapeshift(0-2), Scapeshift(1-2), and Mono G Tron(2-1) in the Swiss. Got 8th since I started 3-0 and both loses top 8'd
- Lost to same Scapeshift player in Top 8(friends on same list): Engineered Explosives was rough, as well as sideboard Narnam Renegade and Chamelleon Colossus. Just to many threats to answer.
Some General Thoughts:
- Love the 3 snap/1 lili split. Snap clogs hand some. Ulted Lili twice vs Tron and helped win those games
- Stony Silence was great vs Tron, 2 is probably the right number
- Still couldn't find Spellbomb(came in mail day after) so I played 1 Relic, never cast it, beat Living End cause Tasigur milled 2 Death Shadows
- I would like a 3rd Denial somewhere in the 75, just don't know what to cut
- 2 Disenchant is probably too many, but I want outs to resolved Chalice. Not sure what to do with these
- Stroke was great vs Tron, but I might cut it for the 3rd Denial as it's more useful, any thoughts on this?
- I never cast blessed alliance, but I'm not sure. It was mainly for the mirror and burn. It gives me an additional out to Etched Champion which I'm not sure I need with 2 Tendrils, and it's decent vs Eldrazi Tron but post board they bring in Hangarback so not sure how good it is there. I wouldn't mind taking it out of the SB, but I'd still like another card for Burn so I'm hesitant to take it out.
- Geist I never cast, and I'm probably taking it out. I just didnt' have Spellbombs so I had to play something. Brought it in vs Storm and Ad Nauseamm to up the clock. I wanted it mainly for Scapeshift to up the clock. It gets blocked too easily in the mirror. Dispel again I wouldn't have played if I could find another Stubborn Denial. I think it's fine if you are maxed on Denials and want a 5th counter, but I wouldn't play it.
- Affinity in G1 he got Etched Champion T2 on the play. He had two Ravagers and I could only Thoughtseize out one and he went all in on Champion so not much to do there. I think I SB out Lili because I have Souls and Tendrils and don't want to many 3 drops, but I'm not really sure. Game 2 he mulled to six and I had double thoughtseize and he got flooded; fairly easy. Game 3 he had the turn 3 kill with Ravager and Inkmoth, but I had a turn two Stony Silence to shut down his two Citadels and a Plating. Drawing two citadels hurt him there, but I was dead if I didn't have it T2. From there Disenchant into Snap Disenchant ended the game fairly quick.
He did SB in blood moon which I didn't play around, but not sure you really can.
Speaking of SB's, has anyone tried playing a Plains in the SB? I say Enevoldson play one when he went 12-3 at a GP, since it seems good to go up to 20 lands against GQ decks. Is this an option?
Here is what I played:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Godless Shrine
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Fatal Push
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
3 Lingering Souls
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Stony Silence
1 Dispel
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Lilian's Defeat
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
2 Flaying Tendrils
Beat Ad Nauseam, Storm, 4c Shadow, and Affinity in the Swiss(losing all 4 game ones on the draw). Beat Merfolk and Eldrazi Tron in Top 8, scooping to Smallpox.
Won't go over each matchup, but just some notes that I had. FYI: store was out of Spellbombs and Stubborn Denials so my SB was a little abnormal.
- Leyline of Sanctity is a little rough, but Liliana was great vs Ad Nauseam. Wouldn't mind a 2nd one in the SB.
- Storm is a pretty easy matchup, not having Spellbomb was rough though, had to bring in Tendrils for Empty.
- Purge and Lilian's Defeat were great against 4c Shadow with Lili, especially with Snapcaster. Wouldn't mind playing one but not much room in SB.
- Stony is a house vs Affinity, but 2 might be unneccessary, I only bring 1 in vs Eldrazi for Ratchet Bomb so maybe 1 is right.
- Merfolk guy SB'd out Seas against me which was great as I hate that card. Just SB'd in all my removal, landed 2 Death Shadow on T2 to win.
- Eldrazi Tron guy flooded, but Snap is so good to buy back Rejection and Denial here.
- I think 4 Snap is a little much, I was happy with 3 and 1 Lili. The deck is low on mana and snap clogged my hand a few times.
- 4/2 Path/Push is correct, just so good in this meta right now
- I think I want another Disenchant just in case Chalice resolves or for Leyline, maybe just an Unmaking?
Cutting Jace for a Cryptic seems iffy. Jace has always been amazing for me, great vs tokens, card advantage, and a win condition.
I do like Supreme Will as it curves into T4 Verdict which we need a lot of the time and helps find it.
I assume the Surgical's are to help vs the Titanshift match, but other than that and Dredge what matchup does it even come in against.
It's not good enough vs Death Shadow I believe, not good enough vs Goyf decks, and worse vs Dredge. I think 2 Peace and 1 Extraction might be right but I haven't tested it yet. I'm just not seeing what matchup you'd want the Extractions other than Titanshift where Rest in Peace is just better.
Crucible is nice in the control mirrors to attack their manabase, I just don't have the cash to test it right now.
It works better with ghost quarter and helps against scapeshift alot, let alone the chord/company decks.
Seems very good vs Death Shadow and Burn, two matchups that are somewhat difficult for us.
4 Slots is a lot though, but since it's the best deck in the format it seems reasonable.