Going forward I'm going to test these in the place of triomes.
Swapping out triomes for surveil duals has been pretty positive so far. My playgroup really likes the new play patterns that surveil offers while ever so slightly curbing 4-5 color decks. Surveil 1 helps you keep a lot of hands that you would otherwise mulligan.
A lot of times triomes acted just as a dual land and didn't need the third color. Domain aside, the mana fixing that triomes provided was very extraneous. Triomes are preferred if you support domain, but surveil duals are at least just as good as triomes if you're not supporting domain or just have really heavy mana fixing requirements, IMO.
I'm bringing this up because I'm curious about comparing it to Court of Embereth.
IMO the closest comparison to this card is Court of Locthwain (which I think is very underrated) in the sense that losing the monarch isn't too bad since a Shock is roughly worth a card anyways so you'll be at parity in most scenarios. Although Court of Lochtwain only costing 4 mana and being in the same color as Dark Ritual makes it much better than a lot of other courts.
How have your experiences with the red courts been? Do you favor one over another? And how would you rate the cards?
I made it a point to test all the original courts to make sure we didn't miss out on another Palace Jailer. All of them but Court of Grace were big disappointments. Right now the only two courts I'm currently cubing with are Court of Locthwain and Court of Garenbrig. Court of Grace is still very playable, but it has much more competition with white 4-cmc planeswalkers / Seasoned Dungeoneer / Palace Jailer / etc.
Coming back to this a year and a half later, I consider Mawloc to be the second best goodstuff Gruul card after Minsc & Boo. Scaleable square stats + fight trigger makes this such a versatile 2 for 1 in a lot of scenarios and is good at any point in the game. It's essentially the perfect Flametongue Kavu.
In the past 294 drafts of my cube since the release of NEO, Mawloc is currently tied as the 5th most represented multicolored card overall in my 3-0 archive. Seeing Mawloc right next to Baleful Strix got me thinking that Mawloc is kind of Gruul's Baleful Strix when you really think about it.
Pia isn't good enough for good stuff decks or red agressive decks anymore, but she's still a good card in artifact synergy decks.
Great on defense , good at retaking the monarch and when you have a lot of mana she is a strong finisher.
I cut her a while ago, but it was a cut I wasn't happy to make.
This was pretty much my experience. It's still a good card, but initiative really ate its lunch as an aggro / goodstuff midrange card, and artifacts matters has more toys to play with and leans more towards white for its critical mass of artifacts now. Whirler Rogue's ability being free is huge with Karnstructs.
I swapped PK Nalaar for Breya's Apprentice because I still wanted the thopter critical mass for Retrofitter Foundry. I ultimately decided to settle for Night Scythe as the spiritual successor to those cards since it's a turn 1 play with Workshop and still provides the same critical mass of artifacts.
I dont think this card is at all playable in a higher power cube.
Yeah, 4 mana is the most I'd consider for a Baneslayer Angel today. Even then, it's gotta be on par with something like Sheoldred, the Apocalypse to make the cut.
Lavaspur Boots
1
Artifact- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+0 and has haste and ward 1.
Equip 1
Pseudo Bonesplitter x Lightning Greaves. I think haste and ward 1 is a fair trade for an extra power compared to Bonesplitter. This gives you some keywords right off the bat and doesn't require you to exile your creature like with Eater of Virtue. I like this more than Bonesplitter / Eater of Virtue overall. In a metagame with monarch / initiative, availability is generally more valuable than 1 extra power. Being fetchable with Urza's Saga / Trinket Mage is also really nice. This seems like a top 3 1-cmc equipment to me alongside Skullclamp and Shadowspear.
This feels like everything that Bloated Contaminator wants to be. This lacks trample and is more vulnerable to burn off the bat, but this offers a lot more flexibility. Seems strong if you're supporting a +1/+1 counters theme. Seems playable, but is a lower priority for me in my book. Sentinel of the Nameless City is eating a lot of this card's lunch.
Can't go wrong with either of them. Personally I like Soul Partition more since it has a cleaner mana cost and can be used on your own stuff if in response to removal or you just really want another ETB trigger. It's important to note that the 2 mana tax doesn't apply if you use it on your own stuff.
I had a discussion with someone at Legacy yesterday where he argues that Brainstorm isn't really playable now in cube given the number of draw punishers and the very limited number of ways to shuffle your library.
- I think the lack of shuffle effects is very over-exaggerated from Legacy being able to play multiple Brainstorms. They don't chain well together without a shuffle effect, but a single Brainstorm without a shuffle effect is still very potent.
- Draw punishers can be removed. Only Hullbreacher / Notion Thief can really catch you off guard and heavily Brainstorm since they have flash. Orcish Bowmasters has flash too, but that at least doesn't prevent you from drawing your cards.
Fwiw when I say “blue deck” I mean a deck where blue is a primary or significant secondary color.
There are plenty of blue shells that are pretty creature heavy where Seedshark isn't idea: UR Kiki-Twin / UW blink / UB Recurring Nightmare / UG Survival / many UX tempo shells / a good amount of artifacts matters decks are getting creature heavy / etc.
I see oath of druids as a near pointless comparison. Oath decks in cubes I draft come together like 1/100 decks… and even if they came together more (as is clearly the case in some cubes here). Shark typhoon is not a good card in them, it’s a low priority playable.
YMMV, but Oath of Druids comes together in my cube all the time since I heavily support cheaty face (and Oath of Druids is probably the deck I force the most). Shark Typhoon is often a card that will make the deck since it's a cantrip that can buy time or steal initiative / monarch in a pinch.
I think chrome host is better than all the other spells matters cards.
The highest average case performance and only less upside than mentor.
This I generally agree with, the only spells matters card I think that is better than Seedshark is Third Path Iconoclast. Mentor has a high ceiling, but its average case scenario in a singleton environment is so bad that I ended up cutting it from my cube. Shark is pretty much everything I wanted mentor to be in terms of defensive prowess and generating value through a sweeper.
Just to be clear with everyone, I think Chrome Host Seedshark is a great card. But gun to head, I'd cube Shark Typhoon first. I value Shark Typhoon's versatility, guaranteed value, role of being a scaleable big mana payoff that's strong at any point in the game, and ability to be reactionary more than Seedshark being an engine for spells matters. I'd give the nod to Seedshark over Mulldrifter even though Mulldrifter is also more versatile and shares a lot of Shark Typhoon's qualities, but IMO Shark Typhoon is on another level compared to both of them.
FWIW , I’m near 100% confident that chrome host seedshark is a higher pick than shark typhoon in the significant majority of blue decks.
I disagree with Chrome Host Seedshark being a higher pick than Shark Typhoon in most decks for several reasons:
- Shark Typhoon can go into any deck that Chrome Host Seedshark can go into / any blue deck in general. Chrome Host Seedshark doesn't necessarily fit into every blue deck, and is incompatible with Oath of Druids.
- Shark Typhoon's cycling can be used at any time, giving blue decks more options in terms of leaving counters up against key threats, having a combat trick that can lead to a 3 for 1, or surprising your opponent at EOT to steal monarch / initaitive.
- If I can afford a blue splash in my deck, Shark Typhoon is a card I'll shoehorn in. I probably wouldn't splash for Chrome Host Seeshark, because if blue is a tertiary color that I"m splashing for, that probably means it's not a very spell centric deck.
I've noticed an evolution in Stoneforge Mystic's application / gameplay that I don't think has been talked about a lot.
- Artifacts matters has gotten a lot of buffs over the years. While white itself doesn't have a lot of artifacts matters cards, it's probably become the most paired color with blue for artifact decks since white has the largest critical mass of artifacts / things that generate artifacts. Artifacts matters has also become very creature centric, which means equipment becomes more important to artifacts matters, which means Stoneforge Mystic also becomes very important to artifacts matters.
- Mishra's Workshop / Tolarian Academy have only gotten better over time, which makes fetching for Batterskull / Kaldra Compleat much less of a liability in artifact shells. Kaldra Compleat also makes for a decent Tinker target.
- White has the best monarch / initiative enablers, so the ability to fetch cheap artifact creatures with configure or equipment with living weapon and its many variants has become very important to be on the winning side of the monarch / initiative subgame.
- Swords of X and Y haven't aged particularly well since power creep has made them a bit slow / clunky to use. I've been keeping some of them around for the sake of critical mass, but we've reached the point where they're expendable and can still have a critical mass of equipment to support Stoneforge Mystic.
Swapping out triomes for surveil duals has been pretty positive so far. My playgroup really likes the new play patterns that surveil offers while ever so slightly curbing 4-5 color decks. Surveil 1 helps you keep a lot of hands that you would otherwise mulligan.
A lot of times triomes acted just as a dual land and didn't need the third color. Domain aside, the mana fixing that triomes provided was very extraneous. Triomes are preferred if you support domain, but surveil duals are at least just as good as triomes if you're not supporting domain or just have really heavy mana fixing requirements, IMO.
Get Lost > Fateful Absence since it hits more things and your opponent can't crack the maps on your turn and require a creature.
Bonesplitter is the most apt comparison mainly due to the costs, IMO.
IMO the closest comparison to this card is Court of Locthwain (which I think is very underrated) in the sense that losing the monarch isn't too bad since a Shock is roughly worth a card anyways so you'll be at parity in most scenarios. Although Court of Lochtwain only costing 4 mana and being in the same color as Dark Ritual makes it much better than a lot of other courts.
I made it a point to test all the original courts to make sure we didn't miss out on another Palace Jailer. All of them but Court of Grace were big disappointments. Right now the only two courts I'm currently cubing with are Court of Locthwain and Court of Garenbrig. Court of Grace is still very playable, but it has much more competition with white 4-cmc planeswalkers / Seasoned Dungeoneer / Palace Jailer / etc.
In the past 294 drafts of my cube since the release of NEO, Mawloc is currently tied as the 5th most represented multicolored card overall in my 3-0 archive. Seeing Mawloc right next to Baleful Strix got me thinking that Mawloc is kind of Gruul's Baleful Strix when you really think about it.
Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes: 41
Grist, the Hunger Tide: 31
Chaos Defiler: 30
Baleful Strix: 25
Mawloc: 22
Kolaghan's Command: 22
Oko, Thief of Crowns: 21
Ertai Resurrected: 21
Kaito Shizuki: 21
Prismari Command: 21
Fractured Identity: 20
Voice of Resurgence: 20
This was pretty much my experience. It's still a good card, but initiative really ate its lunch as an aggro / goodstuff midrange card, and artifacts matters has more toys to play with and leans more towards white for its critical mass of artifacts now. Whirler Rogue's ability being free is huge with Karnstructs.
I swapped PK Nalaar for Breya's Apprentice because I still wanted the thopter critical mass for Retrofitter Foundry. I ultimately decided to settle for Night Scythe as the spiritual successor to those cards since it's a turn 1 play with Workshop and still provides the same critical mass of artifacts.
Yeah, 4 mana is the most I'd consider for a Baneslayer Angel today. Even then, it's gotta be on par with something like Sheoldred, the Apocalypse to make the cut.
Lavaspur Boots
1
Artifact- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+0 and has haste and ward 1.
Equip 1
Pseudo Bonesplitter x Lightning Greaves. I think haste and ward 1 is a fair trade for an extra power compared to Bonesplitter. This gives you some keywords right off the bat and doesn't require you to exile your creature like with Eater of Virtue. I like this more than Bonesplitter / Eater of Virtue overall. In a metagame with monarch / initiative, availability is generally more valuable than 1 extra power. Being fetchable with Urza's Saga / Trinket Mage is also really nice. This seems like a top 3 1-cmc equipment to me alongside Skullclamp and Shadowspear.
Can't go wrong with either of them. Personally I like Soul Partition more since it has a cleaner mana cost and can be used on your own stuff if in response to removal or you just really want another ETB trigger. It's important to note that the 2 mana tax doesn't apply if you use it on your own stuff.
As far as Brainstone goes, I'd argue it's generally worse than things like Candy Trail / Ransom Note since those have ETB triggers and other effects.
- I think the lack of shuffle effects is very over-exaggerated from Legacy being able to play multiple Brainstorms. They don't chain well together without a shuffle effect, but a single Brainstorm without a shuffle effect is still very potent.
- Draw punishers can be removed. Only Hullbreacher / Notion Thief can really catch you off guard and heavily Brainstorm since they have flash. Orcish Bowmasters has flash too, but that at least doesn't prevent you from drawing your cards.
Brainstorm / Ponder / Preordain are still the top cantrips for U in my book. I'd put Sleight of Hand at #4 though.
There are plenty of blue shells that are pretty creature heavy where Seedshark isn't idea: UR Kiki-Twin / UW blink / UB Recurring Nightmare / UG Survival / many UX tempo shells / a good amount of artifacts matters decks are getting creature heavy / etc.
YMMV, but Oath of Druids comes together in my cube all the time since I heavily support cheaty face (and Oath of Druids is probably the deck I force the most). Shark Typhoon is often a card that will make the deck since it's a cantrip that can buy time or steal initiative / monarch in a pinch.
This I generally agree with, the only spells matters card I think that is better than Seedshark is Third Path Iconoclast. Mentor has a high ceiling, but its average case scenario in a singleton environment is so bad that I ended up cutting it from my cube. Shark is pretty much everything I wanted mentor to be in terms of defensive prowess and generating value through a sweeper.
Just to be clear with everyone, I think Chrome Host Seedshark is a great card. But gun to head, I'd cube Shark Typhoon first. I value Shark Typhoon's versatility, guaranteed value, role of being a scaleable big mana payoff that's strong at any point in the game, and ability to be reactionary more than Seedshark being an engine for spells matters. I'd give the nod to Seedshark over Mulldrifter even though Mulldrifter is also more versatile and shares a lot of Shark Typhoon's qualities, but IMO Shark Typhoon is on another level compared to both of them.
I disagree with Chrome Host Seedshark being a higher pick than Shark Typhoon in most decks for several reasons:
- Shark Typhoon can go into any deck that Chrome Host Seedshark can go into / any blue deck in general. Chrome Host Seedshark doesn't necessarily fit into every blue deck, and is incompatible with Oath of Druids.
- Shark Typhoon's cycling can be used at any time, giving blue decks more options in terms of leaving counters up against key threats, having a combat trick that can lead to a 3 for 1, or surprising your opponent at EOT to steal monarch / initaitive.
- If I can afford a blue splash in my deck, Shark Typhoon is a card I'll shoehorn in. I probably wouldn't splash for Chrome Host Seeshark, because if blue is a tertiary color that I"m splashing for, that probably means it's not a very spell centric deck.
- Artifacts matters has gotten a lot of buffs over the years. While white itself doesn't have a lot of artifacts matters cards, it's probably become the most paired color with blue for artifact decks since white has the largest critical mass of artifacts / things that generate artifacts. Artifacts matters has also become very creature centric, which means equipment becomes more important to artifacts matters, which means Stoneforge Mystic also becomes very important to artifacts matters.
- Mishra's Workshop / Tolarian Academy have only gotten better over time, which makes fetching for Batterskull / Kaldra Compleat much less of a liability in artifact shells. Kaldra Compleat also makes for a decent Tinker target.
- White has the best monarch / initiative enablers, so the ability to fetch cheap artifact creatures with configure or equipment with living weapon and its many variants has become very important to be on the winning side of the monarch / initiative subgame.
- Swords of X and Y haven't aged particularly well since power creep has made them a bit slow / clunky to use. I've been keeping some of them around for the sake of critical mass, but we've reached the point where they're expendable and can still have a critical mass of equipment to support Stoneforge Mystic.